Toodaloo Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Hi Guys Brain is taking a meandering stroll through this subject and input would be great. 2 Things over the weekend that got me thinking... 1. A friend is having problems with her husband. He had to have an operation on his penis which included a circumcision and has left scars. His son has also recently announced that when he grows up he wants to be a girl. Now this is not a surprise to anyone apart from his father. The rest of us have all taken it the same way as if he had announced that he wanted to be a teacher or a fireman or lawyer... no biggy. My friends husband went up the wall and has gone a bit crazy about it. He is the type that is part of the loud boisterous group in the pub. But now he is sober and doesn't drink I think he is struggling with it all. 2. Was chatting to a chap, he was talking about being an "Alpha" male etc... He actually didn't strike me as an "Alpha" type... He struct me as charming, intelligent, thoughtful so all very positive but not as I would think "Alpha"... I wasn't bothered about alpha or beta or indeed what any of that means - I just want a really great guy to date and hopefully have a lasting relationship with. Now I view the first as rather sad. The second I have neutral views on and its not really bothering me, just got me thinking. The male perspective of their own "masculinity"... Thoughts?
Radu Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 In the case of the first it's not really surprising. There are certain expectations of a boy and he just cancelled them ... and these expectations were also on his father. Continue the family name ... be the son ... be the future man of the house ... same gender of the guy in charge of the family [traditionally the father]. To this add the fact that heterosexuality means different things for men and women; women are expected to be penetrated and he will transition to that ... with the connotations of it as well. If they also live the way you said [the loudest guy in the pub] means that he [the father] will face a little ostracization also from his former 'friends'. Not to mention that for many men the only emotion one can regularly show without problems and not being considered 'weak' is anger. He will calm down ... probably. In the 2nd case ... why does he see himself as alpha ? An alpha does not need to advertise himself as alpha; he just is. You can't really change from beta to alpha either because the alpha is generally an egotistical prick and if that is not within you ... then it's not. 2
Author Toodaloo Posted March 16, 2015 Author Posted March 16, 2015 If they also live the way you said [the loudest guy in the pub] means that he [the father] will face a little ostracization also from his former 'friends'. Thats the thing though. Its not a secret. Everyone has been expecting this and its just a complete non event/ comment. Its been obvious since the child was tiny that he was either transgender or gay. Its was just a case of which, with the probability that he was transgender and then figuring out how he wants to deal with that when he is old enough to be able to make the decision for himself. Even the loud guys down at the pub are shrugging their shoulders and say "yeah, we know this and the problem is what exactly?" Not to mention that for many men the only emotion one can regularly show without problems and not being considered 'weak' is anger. Shame isn't it. He will calm down ... probably. In the 2nd case ... why does he see himself as alpha ? An alpha does not need to advertise himself as alpha; he just is. You can't really change from beta to alpha either because the alpha is generally an egotistical prick and if that is not within you ... then it's not. I know. This whole Alpha/ Beta thing - I really don't get it at all. I don't understand why its of such great importance either. I have always thought the same way you do that Alphas just "are" Responses in bold above. But another thought that popped into my head... All alphas will at some point be over taken by a beta male as natural progression... You can't be at the top all the time... Unless your the Queen but lets face it. She is great!
Justanaverageguy Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 In the 2nd case ... why does he see himself as alpha ? An alpha does not need to advertise himself as alpha; he just is. You can't really change from beta to alpha either because the alpha is generally an egotistical prick and if that is not within you ... then it's not. I disagree and think their is a lot of confusion between what is "Alpha" in men. Lots of people classify super dominant males as alpha. So the prick who forces his way and will on others, doesn't really have consideration for others and always looks out for number 1. To me that's basic level alpha you see in the animal kingdom but humans are far more complex then say a dog. Being super dominant doesn't make you "top dog" amongst human groups. The real alphas are the ones who don't need to force their will on others, they are charming and magnetic to both men and women. People follow them by choice rather then them imposing their will on others. When you see a real Alpha they don't get into the fights and chest pumping "dominant" type males get into with their ranking behavior. They just do what they want and people tend to follow them. They somehow naturally assume leadership within a group without having to compete for it like the "dominant" personality types do. When you see it .... you really notice it. The group will be making a decision and the Alpha puts forward his opinion and people just tend to agree. The group naturally gravitates to what he suggests. Dominant types get agreement by simple forcing it and they tend to actively seek submissive types that are happy with this type of setup so it works. The dominant guy with his 2 beta followers - I see it everywhere. They will normally deliberately avoid real Alphas because their dominant methods don't work with them in the group. They become frustrated and tend to only become close friends with submissives they can easily control. Real Alphas while looking out for their own best interests also aren't completely selfish pricks .... they are able to win influence and favor with the group because they actually do what's best for the group. This is again something dominant types really struggle with. People don't follow them because they only look after themselves. Just my opinion based on my observations. 4
Radu Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Responses in bold above. But another thought that popped into my head... All alphas will at some point be over taken by a beta male as natural progression... You can't be at the top all the time... Unless your the Queen but lets face it. She is great! Alpha's only think of themselves so no ... they won't get overtaken because in their world this doesn't happen. The need for it [to discuss it] comes from the 2 conflicting messages that men get ... especially in this post-feminist world of ours. On one hand a guy is told to respect women ... put them as equals ... and to not buy into that old world crap ... and the ones who do this and expect to get ahead in the race for women see these same women [or a significant # of them] act like moths to the flame of the alpha guy. It's totally disengineous [or however it's spelled]. So obviously they get pissed ... and eventually try to reconcile the 2 worlds; they can't. I've also tried to be 'that' guy and i can tell you that it's not possible. As a beta the best thing you can do is to adopt solid boundaries and respect yourself ... which is exactly what many women feel attraction to ... a guy with self-respect ... confidence and good boundaries. Someone who loves himself first without being a narcissist. 2
Radu Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 ... Just my opinion based on my observations. It doesn't explain cult leaders and politicians.
Author Toodaloo Posted March 16, 2015 Author Posted March 16, 2015 The real alphas are the ones who don't need to force their will on others, they are charming and magnetic to both men and women. People follow them by choice rather then them imposing their will on others. When you see a real Alpha they don't get into the fights and chest pumping "dominant" type males get into with their ranking behavior. They just do what they want and people tend to follow them. They somehow naturally assume leadership within a group without having to compete for it like the "dominant" personality types do. When you see it .... you really notice it. The group will be making a decision and the Alpha puts forward his opinion and people just tend to agree. The group naturally gravitates to what he suggests. Dominant types get agreement by simple forcing it and they tend to actively seek submissive types that are happy with this type of setup so it works. The dominant guy with his 2 beta followers - I see it everywhere. They will normally deliberately avoid real Alphas because their dominant methods don't work with them in the group. They become frustrated and tend to only become close friends with submissives they can easily control. Real Alphas while looking out for their own best interests also aren't completely selfish pricks .... they are able to win influence and favor with the group because they actually do what's best for the group. This is again something dominant types really struggle with. People don't follow them because they only look after themselves. Just my opinion based on my observations. This was how I thought about things...
Justanaverageguy Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 It doesn't explain cult leaders and politicians. Cult leaders are easily explained .... they normally have the magnetic qualities and an ability to influence people through their words and actions which I mentioned above. However they don't use this for good - they use this against weak and vulnerable betas. Quite often people who have mental, learning, emotional or social issues who seek out this personality type. They target their influence specifically towards these weak types of personality and will carefully control the members within the cult and deliberately expel and weed out other members of the group who disagree with them or have the potential to limit their influence. It is just like the Fake dominant Alphas do - they avoid anyone they can't easily manipulate. They are "alpha" in this very very limited sub group they have carefully formed .... but in a broader sense once you look at real society they exert little to no influence on stronger more intelligent people who understand that their goals are selfish and not in others best interests. Modern politicians are a different beast - it would be too difficult and long winded to try and go into all their intricacies. They are unique to human society in that they are elected leaders who we have little to no direction interaction with. Their influence is manufactured through marketing and the media which makes it a truly unique and complex setup.
carhill Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 1. While changing within my lifetime, male history is rich with the role of man defined by fatherhood and particularly fatherhood of sons who carry forward the male family name into future generations. Being a proud father, in general, and particularly of sons he can pass his male legacy on to is a socially acknowledged achievement for a man and elevates his social status amongst males. For a long time that was the main consideration and change can be difficult, for some. 2. IMO, such discussions by men are a relatively new phenomenon, probably coinciding with changing societal views on gender roles and behavior in recent decades. In the past, men didn't 'talk', they 'did', hence we didn't analyze what an alpha male was, rather simply exhibited the behavior sets and certain males rose to the top of the male hierarchy and became the leaders. Talking was for women and children. My view on masculinity is that it is currently in flux, more markedly so than at any time in recent history. I won't profess to know where it's going or how the end product will look, or sell. One sign of the 'old' ways is the marked lack of male participants on forums such as LoveShack and, especially, 'old' ones. Men of my generation generally wouldn't be caught dead talking about relationships or issues of interpersonal dynamics. They're out inventing the next light bulb or conquering the next kingdom or changing the world with their hands and minds. Masculine things.
Author Toodaloo Posted March 16, 2015 Author Posted March 16, 2015 My view on masculinity is that it is currently in flux, more markedly so than at any time in recent history. I won't profess to know where it's going or how the end product will look, or sell. One sign of the 'old' ways is the marked lack of male participants on forums such as LoveShack and, especially, 'old' ones. Men of my generation generally wouldn't be caught dead talking about relationships or issues of interpersonal dynamics. They're out inventing the next light bulb or conquering the next kingdom or changing the world with their hands and minds. Masculine things. Its kinda good to have them here though don't you think? 1
Radu Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Cult leaders are easily explained .... they normally have the magnetic qualities and an ability to influence people through their words and actions which I mentioned above. However they don't use this for good - they use this against weak and vulnerable betas. Quite often people who have mental, learning, emotional or social issues who seek out this personality type. They target their influence specifically towards these weak types of personality and will carefully control the members within the cult and deliberately expel and weed out other members of the group who disagree with them or have the potential to limit their influence. It is just like the Fake dominant Alphas do - they avoid anyone they can't easily manipulate. They are "alpha" in this very very limited sub group they have carefully formed .... but in a broader sense once you look at real society they exert little to no influence on stronger more intelligent people who understand that their goals are selfish and not in others best interests. Modern politicians are a different beast - it would be too difficult and long winded to try and go into all their intricacies. They are unique to human society in that they are elected leaders who we have little to no direction interaction with. Their influence is manufactured through marketing and the media which makes it a truly unique and complex setup. I think you'd do better explaining things with the sliding scale that represents one's control over their own reality ... their own view on things. The key difference being that politicians and cult leaders [yes i group them together] rely on imposing their reality on others ... and alpha's naturally having their own reality being adopted by others without the use of other methods. Personally i disagree ... in both cases there is a heavy focus on oneself in the 'leader'.
Radu Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 My view on masculinity is that it is currently in flux, more markedly so than at any time in recent history. I won't profess to know where it's going or how the end product will look, or sell. One sign of the 'old' ways is the marked lack of male participants on forums such as LoveShack and, especially, 'old' ones. Men of my generation generally wouldn't be caught dead talking about relationships or issues of interpersonal dynamics. They're out inventing the next light bulb or conquering the next kingdom or changing the world with their hands and minds. Masculine things. Those things matter less now ... power will come more and more out of the ability to figure out interpersonal relationships and getting better at that. So in a way ... this is an evolution but the path remains the same.
carhill Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Its kinda good to have them here though don't you think? In the microcosm of effecting clearer communication regarding relationships, perhaps. However, it's unclear how that translates to the real world, relevant to what is perceived and valued as being 'masculine'. I'm probably missing a point of reference due to the lack of my own sons to interact with and get perspective from about how they interpret their world. As an old guy, in my demographic and social circle, I'm markedly outlier, both in style of communication and communicating at all. This makes forming authentic male friendships difficult because styles are too different. However, fortunately, as mortality has crept in, the males have 'softened' a bit and are now exhibiting their masculinity in a way which is more compatible for me to find healthy male friendships. One the home front, at least in those M's where I've observed the good bad and ugly first hand, my takeaway has been that the spouses of my generation *want* a man to communicate, be vulnerable and intimate and the chase for those qualities in men who generally don't exhibit them (key word is 'generally', meaning in a global sense) is part of, an important part of, the attraction dance and is a marked area where I failed the masculinity test in my M. I don't think that, in and of itself, that failure is bad, rather it simply means incompatibility with a subset of women of my generation. My best example of how masculinity is defined is when male friends, in that way friends rib each other in a masculine way, tell me I'm make a woman a good wife someday. Yeah, it's a joke, and I understand it, but it's also a message regarding masculinity and social standing amongst males. I accept it because I accept myself. My goal is to live a long healthy life and, if eschewing a bit of masculinity achieves my goal, well that's my mission. I want to see the lifespan between men and women narrow, meaning men live longer because, frankly, I think women have it right in a lot of ways in the longevity area. They're smart. I respect smart.
Author Toodaloo Posted March 16, 2015 Author Posted March 16, 2015 My best example of how masculinity is defined is when male friends, in that way friends rib each other in a masculine way, tell me I'm make a woman a good wife someday. Yeah, it's a joke, and I understand it, but it's also a message regarding masculinity and social standing amongst males. I accept it because I accept myself. My goal is to live a long healthy life and, if eschewing a bit of masculinity achieves my goal, well that's my mission. I want to see the lifespan between men and women narrow, meaning men live longer because, frankly, I think women have it right in a lot of ways in the longevity area. They're smart. I respect smart. I can empathise to some extent. I get told I would make a good husband... The other part of the conversation with the man who described himself as Alpha (which I believe you are partially hitting on) is that I believe that while women are better at expressing their emotions that men are greater affected by them and have a harder time in dealing with them. You often see young girls change their social groups at school and adapt and merge. however men tend to stay within the same social groups and seem to be more attached and protective to the people around them. Carhill you also hint on age and "mellowing"... thus those trying to be alpha don't worry about it any more and just get on with life because the "younger pups" are coming up behind them to take over... they have nothing to prove or show off any more so cease to care about it. Personally I think its great that we have men opening up and discussing things such as emotions and feelings rather than bottle them up. Helps women to see your not from Mars, you are in fact human beings and it also helps us to understand the ways in which you view the world. In turn this then also helps us. To be blunt in general women have seen men as cave men when it comes to emotions and its good to know that you are right there with us sharing life journey... we are not alone. 1
carhill Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Carhill you also hint on age and "mellowing"... thus those trying to be alpha don't worry about it any more and just get on with life because the "younger pups" are coming up behind them to take over... they have nothing to prove or show off any more so cease to care about it. In my demographic, if I were to simplify and use my own 'male' path for demonstration of masculine here..... I get married young and, yep, children are a byproduct of marriage and having a son is very important to me. Daughters are loved, for sure, but a son is my immortality. From an infant, I model my son, in my case, into a relatively rough and tumble rural lifestyle. He's introduced to the earth, the soil, at a young age. Rides around the tractor with dad, tends to the chores, helping in an age-appropriate manner. Later, he's introduced to the business and 'apprentices' along with school and other aspects of life. Son and dad socialize and do 'masculine' things. I might like him to one day take over the business and continue it with the family name, as part of my legacy. We, in general, express our feelings through actions, not words, though he may later develop talking about such matters on his own. My example would be one of doing, not talking. You might note that I haven't mentioned women in any of this, except for perhaps having daughters. That's purposeful, because a man's interactions with his son are separate from women and do not include them. When men describe a 'man cave', this is part of what they're referring to. No girls allowed. Like the man cave, the interactions between a man and his son are where masculine energy and testosterone flow, to the exclusion of other distractions. Masculinity is the focus and, yep, men tend to focus due to this role-modeling and socialization, regardless of the point they're focusing on. It's leftover from the days of focusing on the kill without distraction or intruding thoughts, back when we were the hunters and protectors. -------------------- What's interesting is that I grew up in a white collar world with practically none of that described above happening but still found 'the call' of the traditional masculine to be quite evident, in part because of what I believe are natural male drives and also because of peer and social integration with the males of my demographic. Getting beat on as a child for being different was the first sign of the integration process, then later social shunning and lack of male associations. After awhile though, the messages got through, behaviors changed and relationships improved. Regarding age and mellowing, IME the men who have made their mark, achieved their reproductive and social success in the world are or can be content to rest upon those accomplishments and mellow out in their old age, presuming the path to getting there hasn't killed them. Will younger men and women, in general, move the goalposts of masculinity as they relate to interpersonal relationships? Perhaps. Probably likely. As mentioned, things are constantly evolving. Our lifetimes are just a speck of sand on the beach of time and evolution, even respecting that they seem enormous to us. Time will tell and I'll be long gone and my family's surname will die with me.
ThaWholigan Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Masculinity is a subject that has been of interest in me since I began observing myself, my father, brothers and other men. The way I see it, masculinity as a concept is more of an energetic principle to me than a traditional set of behaviors that men are "supposed" to adopt. It encompasses traits that represent activity and drive. My thing is this - not all men have overriding masculine traits, and attempting to adopt behaviors that go against ones nature without the benefit of resistance inducing growth will only cause trauma, conflict and ultimately depression. Which segways into this young boy who wants to be a girl. Transgender is a touchy subject for me as I've grown to be much more accommodating of LBTQ issues, but I'm in an immediate environment that is very intolerant of such. The redefining of the concept of gender is intriguing if not a tad controversial, so of course the father is going to be dubious and ultimately angry about it. We have preconceived notions about what a man is supposed to be based on "traditional" masculine behaviors that not every man embodies so deviation is scary for fathers. I expect in time he will warm to the idea, as it becomes more tolerable to society. Regarding "Alpha" behaviors, I've had a variety of changing opinions on the concept. Previously I believed that everybody could cultivate Alpha characteristics. Now I'm of the opinion that not everybody can, and that it probably is a better idea for men to embrace the characteristics they already have and augment them in order to find their groove in life and attain balance. I'm not a classic Alpha by any means - in fact I can't quite categorize myself personally. A couple friends have described me as an Alpha in Beta clothing . Dunno if I'd agree! But Alpha men tend to have magnetic traits and generally know the dynamics of power better than most other guys. Physique probably doesn't have THAT much to do with it, but it helps if you have an aura that is noticeable and strong. 2
xxoo Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Toodaloo: Thats the thing though. Its not a secret. Everyone has been expecting this and its just a complete non event/ comment. Its been obvious since the child was tiny that he was either transgender or gay. Its was just a case of which, with the probability that he was transgender and then figuring out how he wants to deal with that when he is old enough to be able to make the decision for himself. Even the loud guys down at the pub are shrugging their shoulders and say "yeah, we know this and the problem is what exactly?" I've seen this behavior in mothers, as well. What is obvious to EVERYONE else (even dad in some cases) is a complete shock to the mother. Denial is powerful when the individual has a very strong motivation to deny what is right in from of them. 1
PaperCrane Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 I read something recently about men and the three P's of masculinity. ProvideProtectProcreate In the first example from the OP, each was threatened. By having a son, an extension of himself and his masculinity, wanting to become a woman could make it seem that he didn't provide a sufficient masculine role model, that he couldn't protect him whatever he believes could have made him make that decision. Not only that his entire legacy; name, genes, image, all has been threatened by this. I can empathize with that situation because even though he may accept the decision in time...he may never get over those feelings. 1
GemmaUK Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 My take: 1. A friend is having problems with her husband. He had to have an operation on his penis which included a circumcision and has left scars. His son has also recently announced that when he grows up he wants to be a girl. Now this is not a surprise to anyone apart from his father. The rest of us have all taken it the same way as if he had announced that he wanted to be a teacher or a fireman or lawyer... no biggy. My friends husband went up the wall and has gone a bit crazy about it. He is the type that is part of the loud boisterous group in the pub. But now he is sober and doesn't drink I think he is struggling with it all. Dad is insecure. He isn't secure enough to be proud of his son whatever his son chooses. It is sad. 2. Was chatting to a chap, he was talking about being an "Alpha" male etc... He actually didn't strike me as an "Alpha" type... He struct me as charming, intelligent, thoughtful so all very positive but not as I would think "Alpha"... I wasn't bothered about alpha or beta or indeed what any of that means - I just want a really great guy to date and hopefully have a lasting relationship with. He considers himself an alpha but you don't so this conversation is pretty much a non entity. He may have just been laying it on to appear to be a great alpha guy. Now I view the first as rather sad. The second I have neutral views on and its not really bothering me, just got me thinking. Most males are not openly alpha, or they say they are they generally not. Most nice guys (the actually really nice guys) don't say they are. Self proclaimed nice guys (or bad boys for that matter)..nah..neither are as they proclaim IME. 1
Haydn Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Never had any idea what `Alpha` was or `Beta` until i came here. Along with other terms like breadcrumbs. Thought they were all activities you did in the park. I was brought up in a pretty liberal household despite Dad being of a military back ground. Mum made the rules. They appeared to have a mutual RS and equality was everywhere. I never identified with being a `so called alpha or a beta` I was just me and i was and am very comfortable with my masculinity. If i was on the pull it usually worked. (Usually) Girls liked me for certain traits and others didn`t like certain traits. It`s very difficult to pin down i guess, i`ve never had to question it yet. 6
GemmaUK Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Never had any idea what `Alpha` was or `Beta` until i came here. Along with other terms like breadcrumbs. Thought they were all activities you did in the park. I was brought up in a pretty liberal household despite Dad being of a military back ground. Mum made the rules. They appeared to have a mutual RS and equality was everywhere. I never identified with being a `so called alpha or a beta` I was just me and i was and am very comfortable with my masculinity. If i was on the pull it usually worked. (Usually) Girls liked me for certain traits and others didn`t like certain traits. It`s very difficult to pin down i guess, i`ve never had to question it yet. You have no issue or question with it.... that is what masculinity is.... Great post Haydn! 2
alphamale Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 2. Was chatting to a chap, he was talking about being an "Alpha" male etc... He actually didn't strike me as an "Alpha" type... He struct me as charming, intelligent, thoughtful so all very positive but not as I would think "Alpha"... I wasn't bothered about alpha or beta or indeed what any of that means - I just want a really great guy to date and hopefully have a lasting relationship with. well, alpha males come in all shapes, sizes, etc. you can have an intellectual man who considered himself alpha. A smart guy who is very handsome with a good body would be an alpha male with the women. A physician in the ER can definitely be an alpha male in the hospital. Don't think that alpha males only come as surfboarders with no brains, long blonde hair and women hanging all over them Real alphamales are intelligent over all 2
Gloria25 Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 OOk, I apologize in advance because this is a touchy subject and some people get offended... ***Look, Gloria25 will make heads spin when she gives her response*** As much as I am a combo of female and masculine traits; have kissed a girl; had a FFM once and still am turned on by both men and women, I do not believe masculinity and/or femininity is as fluid as people want to make it. I do not believe you can fight biology and just "chose" gender. I also believe that we humans are like animals - but we have brains. In our development, especially as children, environment can affect where we lean towards. I believe parents have a responsibility to keep their kids "on track" and not to indulge simple animalistic urges in developing children. For example, little kids pulling down their pants and checking each other's privates....that doesn't men they are questioning their sexuality and/or were molested. Kids do that stupid stuff. Now, kids aren't dumb either. Like Angelina Jolie's kid who wants to be treated like a boy? That kid is kinda boyish looking, so, I can see where the kid probably would prefer to be a boy, but IMO, that is not a reason to indulge a child's confusion. Tell them the truth, that right now they may not be the "cutest" girl, but may be a late bloomer. Same for scrawny boys...don't indulge them leaning towards being a girl cuz they took a look in the mirror and see they won't make the baseball/football/etc team. One word, "Joe Manganiello"....Have you seen his nerdy pictures in high school? Not the beefcake you see now (BTW, I like fit guys, but beefcake is a bit much for me). Imagine if he was discouraged from working on himself? That's why parents exist....to guide our children on the right paths based on our experience. But with the women's movement wanting to destroy men and masculinity, the whole "gender is fluid" nonsense is pressuring parents to not parent and indulge simple childish confusion/experimentation. Now, sociopathy is something people are born with. They say in 3yr old child you can tell if they will be sociopaths. And mind you, the DSM at one point considered homosexuality a mental illness. Some homosexuals say that they were "put in the wrong body", but could it be the contrary where their "mind" is thinking they are in the wrong body - akin to other forms of mental illness about body image (Ie bulimia). To the date I'm typing this, there is no scientific proof that homosexual is something a person is born to be. Yet, we have proof of biological differences between male and female, and if homosexuality was the "norm", then how would we survive as a species? Also, when you listen to a lot of people who are homosexual, there was some trauma in their lives (ie molestation, abuse, issues with a parent). I have a relative who announced she is a lesbian. And, as much as I've dabbled with my sexuality, I felt like Case #1 that the OP described....I was disappointed, but I have not changed my love for her, have not and will not berate her, yell at her and/ot treat her any different. But, I plan to have a talk with her. See, she lost her mum as a toddler. She, even as a young adult, cried at night cuz she never got to be raise by and/or know her mum. She grew a strong attachment to my mum, her grandmother. And, worst, a boy broke her heart. She is a BEAUTIFUL young woman...and like me, she has a giving/doormat kindness. I do not like what I have heard about her shack-up girlfriend who is waay older than her, has no money, no car, and spent up to her 30's living with her parents. I believe she is taking advantage of a young girl who just misses her mommy. And, I hate to see that my niece has given up on a husband, kids, and all that cuz of childhood trauma.
MrNate 2.0 Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 Masculinity can be defined in a lot of ways, but one thing is for sure. Reading threads around here, I'm reminded that a masculine man definitely, definitely knows how to treat a woman. 4
blackcat777 Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 Thriving on challenge seems to be another aspect of masculinity. I love to watch my boyfriend tackle challenges because it reminds me of how he's inevitably going to tackle me (mwahaha). Rather than seeking the path of least resistance, he seeks the most interesting path of challenge (even if it's a side diversion on a nature walk), and that enthusiasm to conquer a challenge turns. me. on. I had an ex who concealed his omega tendencies very well. He was the one who always had an excuse not to go to work. :\ There's definitely something masculine and sexy about guys with drive, ambition, focus, and direction. It's that Mars energy. Oooh. Makes me shiver. 2
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