Men start relationships, women maintain them?

[GemmaUK]

I don't know if it is a chicken in egg thing.

 

From what I have seen and heard about, many women just lose their desire for sex no matter what the man is doing, no matter how hard he tries.

 

By far the most common problem men have in relationships is the woman not wanting sex. So I thought it was ironic with the notion of women maintaining a relationship when she refuses sex, causing it to fall apart.

 

 

This happens when a man stops dating her.

 

 

I was with my LTR for 14 years and our sex life was consistently amazing - cos he stiill 'dated' me.

 

 

ETA: He was also fantastic in bed just because he listened and acted upon what he heard - as do I.

[toolforgrowth]

Stop blaming men and take responsibility for your own life. Women have been brainwashed into automatically blaming men for damn near everything. And we often fall for it.

 

Amen, brother!

 

Men have gotten the message: Everything is our fault. Okay, so then what's our incentive to keep trying? What's our incentive to couple? What's our incentive to spend our hard earned money on a person who's going to blame us for all of their problems? What's our incentive to marry someone who's going to blame us for every little thing that goes wrong?

 

This is where I shift the focus away from women and go right to men: We need to stop putting ourselves in this position. We need to take back control of our lives, and not place women on a pedestal. Feminism has taught them that they don't need men, and I have no issue with that. Frankly, I think that's a great thing. That means they don't need my money, my time, and my assets.

 

Which means I can keep them all to myself.

 

With that being said, I'll happily share them with my GF, but that's because she doesn't feel entitled to them. She chooses to earn my respect through her actions and how well she treats me, which in turn causes me to be more than happy to share them with her. But she also takes responsibility for her own life and actions, and doesn't need me "rescue her" from her situation. She busted her a$$ in school and is now interning, and when she's hired on she'll be making good money...all through her own hard work.

 

God, I love that woman.

Edited March 14, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[autumnnight]

I don't know if it is a chicken in egg thing.

 

From what I have seen and heard about, many women just lose their desire for sex no matter what the man is doing, no matter how hard he tries.

 

By far the most common problem men have in relationships is the woman not wanting sex. So I thought it was ironic with the notion of women maintaining a relationship when she refuses sex, causing it to fall apart.

 

You have no idea what happens behind closed doors. However, if it makes you and hordes of others feel better to assume your particular situation is solely the fault of women, have at it.

 

I knew by the end of my honeymoon that my husband didn't give a rat's ass about sex. I stayed. Other than my kids I'm not sure why.

[toolforgrowth]

You have no idea what happens behind closed doors. However, if it makes you and hordes of others feel better to assume your particular situation is solely the fault of women, have at it.

 

I knew by the end of my honeymoon that my husband didn't give a rat's ass about sex. I stayed. Other than my kids I'm not sure why.

 

Your situation was just as bad as mine, and is in no way invalidated. And you have just as much of a right to condemn what you went through just as much as we do about what we went through.

 

Being in a sexless marriage is just painful, regardless of your gender. I'll be the first to admit I'm highly opinionated! lol But I fully recognize there are just some really lame men out there, and that good women like yourself have gotten royally screwed over by them. I have no desire to minimize your experience. Quite the opposite, I'm glad you share your experiences so everybody, men and women, can know what it's like to be in that situation.

 

EDIT: Upon further reflection, I'm even more glad that you share your experience, because as a woman, you can relate to other women better than we can. By sharing your experience of being in a sexless marriage as a woman, you give more credence to the dilemma that many men find themselves in, and in fact, help us better demonstrate how painful it can be.

 

You are in no way part of the problem, and in every way, part of the solution.

Edited March 14, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[dichotomy]

I think both men and women often stop trying their best after a while or after marriage. People put on their best behavior when they first start dating - try to impress. Its kind of sad, because in away it make sense to doing a little more as you get more serious or committed .... that's the way it used to be at one time.

 

I also would challenge that later in relationships - or in marriage women withhold sex due to the men not doing their part. Or that women maintain the relationships long term. Plenty of men her (myself included) who found out the hard way - that we can end up doing the maintaining. Again many people (men and women) simply stop trying after things settle down.

Edited March 14, 2015 by dichotomy

[autumnnight]

Here is my unashamed opinion:

 

Not only is sex the primary act that separates marriage from every other relationship, it is something only your spouse can ethically give. Don't like to cook? Order out. Don't like to clean? Merry Maids. Quiet spouse? Supportive and conversational same sex friends. You love birdwatching and your spouse hates it? Some same sex bird watching buddies.

 

If a spouse unilaterally decides sex is off the table, they have broken the one flesh vow to l9ve and cherish. If you marry someone knowing don't care about sex, you damn well better tell them ahead of time. They aren't "nice enough" to you? Talk to them, push for counseling. Don't withhold intimacy like a kindergartener withholds a toy.

 

Oh, and it is not up to me to "do the math" well enough to earn it. I'm a spouse, not an accountant.

[Phoe]

It's not just men in sexless or darn near sexless marriages and relationships.

 

I struggled to get sex in my relationships. Women can find themselves with a partner who doesn't sexually satisfy them too.

[autumnnight]

It's not just men in sexless or darn near sexless marriages and relationships.

 

I struggled to get sex in my relationships. Women can find themselves with a partner who doesn't sexually satisfy them too.

 

Exactly. I felt like a freak being the one who wanted it more.

[toolforgrowth]

As I said, sexless relationships are a problem for both men and women.

 

From a man's perspective, the issue is when their sexless partner justifies their reasoning behind the lack of sex, and those justifications are enabled by other women. In essence, men feel like they have to jump through hoops, or as autumnnight eloquently put it, basically generate enough "marital capital" to exchange for sex.

 

As to why some men aren't having sex with their female partners, I'm genuinely curious. Did either of you find out why that was the case? Did they offer any justifications? Do you have any thoughts as to why they were like that? My curiosity is highly piqued.

[autumnnight]

As I said, sexless relationships are a problem for both men and women.

 

From a man's perspective, the issue is when their sexless partner justifies their reasoning behind the lack of sex, and those justifications are enabled by other women. In essence, men feel like they have to jump through hoops, or as autumnnight eloquently put it, basically generate enough "marital capital" to exchange for sex.

 

As to why some men aren't having sex with their female partners, I'm genuinely curious. Did either of you find out why that was the case? Did they offer any justifications? Do you have any thoughts as to why they were like that? My curiosity is highly piqued.

 

 

At the risk of....well, something really stupid, I will say the typical response was a shrug and "I just don't think about it. It's just not something I need. It's just not important to me."

 

After a shouldn't-have-been-necessary-but-was long, open conversation with me, him, and for part of it, our kids AFTER the D, I found out that he was indeed chatting with and planning to meet men, something he denied and made me lie about while we were married. Honestly, I wish I hadn't had it confirmed, but we really had no choice.

[Phoe]

As to why some men aren't having sex with their female partners, I'm genuinely curious. Did either of you find out why that was the case? Did they offer any justifications? Do you have any thoughts as to why they were like that? My curiosity is highly piqued.

 

A variety of reasons.

 

Not interested, not attracted to me, lazy, selfish, wanted a differen woman, were cheating on me with a different woman, etc.

[somedude81]

It's not just men in sexless or darn near sexless marriages and relationships.

 

I struggled to get sex in my relationships. Women can find themselves with a partner who doesn't sexually satisfy them too.

 

Have you been in a relationship where the sex was fine and then it just went away?

 

While I've never experienced it myself, it seems to be more common for women in relationships to just decide that they are done having sex with their partner.

[toolforgrowth]

Have you been in a relationship where the sex was fine and then it just went away?

 

While I've never experienced it myself, it seems to be more common for women in relationships to just decide that they are done having sex with their partner.

 

Yes, this was my experience being married.

 

A variety of reasons.

 

Not interested, not attracted to me, lazy, selfish, wanted a differen woman, were cheating on me with a different woman, etc.

 

And this was that marriage experience, only replace "woman" with "man". I totally get it.

 

SD asked a good question. Was there ever a point where the sex was satisfactory, like in the beginning? Or was it always humdrum?

 

I've read your posts, and you seem like a sexually healthy woman. Gotta admit, I'm scratching my head at their behavior. I'm in no way suggesting their behavior is a reflection of you, I just don't understand why they would behave that way with a woman who would clearly have fun in bed, both for her and her man.

 

Them's be some crazy dudes!

[Woggle]

I can't speak for anybody else but I do all those things for my wife. I stopped doing them in my first marriage because nothing I ever did was good enough. Men stop trying when we feel we are put in a no win situation. It feels like running a race and the minute you are right near the finish line it gets moved a few miles. After a while it seems pointless trying to run it.

[autumnnight]

I can't speak for anybody else but I do all those things for my wife. I stopped doing them in my first marriage because nothing I ever did was good enough. Men stop trying when we feel we are put in a no win situation. It feels like running a race and the minute you are right near the finish line it gets moved a few miles. After a while it seems pointless trying to run it.

 

This. That is why when I read someone's story and they make it clear they have tried everything they can think of, had counseling, blah blah, I do NOT start interrogating them about whether or not they are good enough, or why don't they talk to their spouse, or why don't they read a book. By the time someone reaches out to strangers on the internet, 99% of the time they have tried all of that. It just rubs salt in the wound.

[Starship]

Ummm....no. In a healthy relationship, both should enjoy doing things for the other and being there for the other.

 

I think the OP is an over-generalization. Men may stop buying flowers, women tend to expand after kids.

 

The key is to remember a relationship is a living thing. You don't tend it, it dies.

 

Agreed.

 

Generalizations are often over simplifications. People with good relationships usually also have good social skills and awareness...no one box fits all.

 

Tens of millions of couples are happy together over the long term. They are not magical nor do they have insight into some special secrets of success.

 

As autumnnight states. So simple. Invest in your relationship. My guy is so important in my life...he deserves a few minutes special attention each day.

 

We are going dancing tonight. My boyfriend will likely bring me flowers when he picks me up. I will keep them beside my bed and cherish them. There's also a chance he will bring me my favourite chocolate treat...in which case I'll gobble it up. Either way, he'll also get a treat.

[Phoe]

Yes, this was my experience being married.

 

 

 

And this was that marriage experience, only replace "woman" with "man". I totally get it.

 

SD asked a good question. Was there ever a point where the sex was satisfactory, like in the beginning? Or was it always humdrum?

 

I've read your posts, and you seem like a sexually healthy woman. Gotta admit, I'm scratching my head at their behavior. I'm in no way suggesting their behavior is a reflection of you, I just don't understand why they would behave that way with a woman who would clearly have fun in bed, both for her and her man.

 

Them's be some crazy dudes!

 

With my first 3 boyfriends the sex was always bad, no matter what, and it was rare to get. They acted like it was a chore.

 

With my most recent ex, for the first month he at least was interested in sex and wanted to often enough, but it wasn't good, and my attempts at getting him interested in doing things that felt good for me went nowhere, and soon enough everything just went to crap. He was too tired to be interested, and when he DID get interested, the only position he wanted was one that I specifically told him was painful for me, especially considering I wasn't getting foreplay and therefore wasn't getting wet, and he just wanted to stick it in dry. Then I'd bleed and he'd feel awful and wouldn't want sex for a while.

 

But it was closer than I'd ever been before, at least he WANTED sex sometimes, to start with. The first 3 didn't.

[somedude81]

With my first 3 boyfriends the sex was always bad, no matter what, and it was rare to get. They acted like it was a chore.

 

With my most recent ex, for the first month he at least was interested in sex and wanted to often enough, but it wasn't good, and my attempts at getting him interested in doing things that felt good for me went nowhere, and soon enough everything just went to crap. He was too tired to be interested, and when he DID get interested, the only position he wanted was one that I specifically told him was painful for me, especially considering I wasn't getting foreplay and therefore wasn't getting wet, and he just wanted to stick it in dry. Then I'd bleed and he'd feel awful and wouldn't want sex for a while.

 

But it was closer than I'd ever been before, at least he WANTED sex sometimes, to start with. The first 3 didn't.

 

So in your case the sex was always crap. That's not the same thing as I was talking about where good or great sex suddenly changed to be bad if it happened at all.

 

BTW, why did you quote toolforgrowth's post when you were answering my question?

[autumnnight]

So in your case the sex was always crap. That's not the same thing as I was talking about where good or great sex suddenly changed to be bad if it happened at all.

 

BTW, why did you quote toolforgrowth's post when you were answering my question?

 

If you are looking to find some way that a woman's perspective is not exactly like yours and therefore invalid, then it is pointless.

 

We had regular sex the first year or so of marriage. Then there was a rapid decline. No, I did not stop cleaning or get big as a house or throw dishes at him.

 

The point is that no matter how much we try, there just is NOT an "all men" or "all women" thing that we can hang our hats on.

[hotpotato]

As I said, sexless relationships are a problem for both men and women.

 

From a man's perspective, the issue is when their sexless partner justifies their reasoning behind the lack of sex, and those justifications are enabled by other women. In essence, men feel like they have to jump through hoops, or as autumnnight eloquently put it, basically generate enough "marital capital" to exchange for sex.

 

As to why some men aren't having sex with their female partners, I'm genuinely curious. Did either of you find out why that was the case? Did they offer any justifications? Do you have any thoughts as to why they were like that? My curiosity is highly piqued.

 

My ex flat out told me he was tired of my body and needed variety. He was also scared of my getting pregnant again and banging other people. So there you go.

[SolG]

I think both men and women often stop trying their best after a while or after marriage. People put on their best behavior when they first start dating - try to impress. Its kind of sad, because in away it make sense to doing a little more as you get more serious or committed ....

 

I'd expand on this to look at why this occurs. People put their best faces forward early in a relationship because at a base level they fear rejection and the pain that that entails. They find someone that they care about and so they amplify the qualities and behaviours that maximise the attraction, and minimise anything that promotes the likelihood of being rejected.

 

Add fear of rejection to the chemical effect of limerence, and the stage is set for whilst not an entirely false, but an atypical perception of one another. And consequently skewed expectations as well. Rose coloured glasses abound.

 

Becoming more secure in a relationsip lessens the fear and impetus for maintaining all the things said and done to stave off rejection. But the good thing is that this is the phase when partners actually get the opportunity (if they're willing) to begin to really know one another; likes and dislikejs, incompatibilities, darkest fantasies... Warts and all. And love each other anyway.

 

Him: What the hell are you angry about this time?

 

Her: It's Friday.

 

Him: Friday's make you angry?

 

Her: No! You really don't know?

 

Him: No idea.

 

Her: You used to always bring me flowers on Friday's, and now you hardly do it at all anymore!

 

Him: So that's why you were such a biatch last weekend as well!

 

Her: Well how do you expect me to be when you don't do anything for me anymore. Do you even care?

 

Him: I could say the same to you! What happened to BJ Tuesdays? Or those home made muffins you know I love?

 

Her: Why would I do those things for you when you obviously won't make an effort for me. What about all the other things I do? I work too, but I still cook every evening meal. I wash and iron your shirts. Why can't you appreciate those things?

 

Him: Well what about the fact that I didn't get you flowers because after a really long hectic week I went out of my way to go to the hardware store and get the stuff I need to fix the problem in the guest bathroom you've been complaining about before your Mom's visit? What about the fact that last weekend, I made frames for your paintings? Doesn't seem like anything I do counts!

 

Hopefully they get here...

 

Her: But they're just household jobs. I'm talking about things you do for me.

 

Him: But they ARE things I do for you. I do them because I know you want them. I do them because I love you. How can you not see that? They are far more meaningful than a bunch of flowers that anyone can buy from any store. They are things I do for you with my own two hands. What is it about women and flowers!?

 

Her: I really didn't realise that. Thank you. The flowers are hard to explain... I see now that there are lots of ways that you show me you love me. But every now and then it's nice to be surprised with a gesture that's not the everyday stuff. Like flowers, or dinner out... So I know you still see me that way. I get afraid sometimes that you don't. I know it's silly, but I do.

 

Him: I get it. I feel that way sometimes too. So flowers for you are like a BJ for me? That special thing that lets me know you still see me as an object of love and desire? I actually still would like to go out for dinner... But please don't make me go back to those fancy places you like. It's always so uncomfortable and there's never enough food.

 

Her: I'm so glad you understand! I see what you're saying too. I had no idea you hated those restaurants. Really? We could always go somewhere else...

 

And the next Friday he brings home flowers and they go out to dinner at the local pub. He gets a BJ when they get home, followed by passionate sex. And all is well until they next stumble across something they don't understand or even like about each other, and hopefully they work through that as well.

 

I know this is a simplistic example, but the principles are transferrable. Neither party (male or female) has the monopoly on failing in relationships. They both have a responsibility for making the relationship--and themselves individually within it--grow.

[trippi1432]

If only couples did work like that example.....beautifully written and good "food for thought".

[somedude81]

If you are looking to find some way that a woman's perspective is not exactly like yours and therefore invalid, then it is pointless.

 

We had regular sex the first year or so of marriage. Then there was a rapid decline. No, I did not stop cleaning or get big as a house or throw dishes at him.

 

The point is that no matter how much we try, there just is NOT an "all men" or "all women" thing that we can hang our hats on.

 

Did he ever give you a reason why the sex dropped off?

 

I don't hear stories like this that often and I'm curious what happened.

[autumnnight]

Did he ever give you a reason why the sex dropped off?

 

I don't hear stories like this that often and I'm curious what happened.

 

Sex was a new thing he'd never done before, like a new video game. Once he'd done it a lot and knew what itvwas about, it just didn't interest him. Plus, he thought once we had our kids andv"got on with life," I'd get over the whole sex thing.

 

That's pretty much what he said.

[trippi1432]

Did he ever give you a reason why the sex dropped off?

 

I don't hear stories like this that often and I'm curious what happened.

 

I realize SD, that you weren't asking me this question.....but similar to AN, my ex SO was like this as well. It just stopped and it wasn't anything I had done. He even admitted that when we finally were able to discuss it, but we were already in the stages of breaking up by then.

 

It was just something that was never important to him, even when he was in college and all his friends were chasing girls, getting laid, he really could care less about sex.