Mangina Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I disagree. If someone is having roadblock after roadblock getting dates or establishing healthy relationships it is about them and it is on them to make themselves into a desirable person that people want to be with. Let's turn this around and make it a female that can't buy a date to save her life and she says that she is 100lbs overweight but has pretty blue eyes. If she wants to improve her chances in the dating market should she search the world over and spend years looking for a man that likes pretty blue eyes so much he's willing to overlook the weight or should she focus her energies on losing weight and getting healthy and vigorous so she will appeal more to the wider audience? It's not that people are cutting anyone down but rather pointing out where the most work would have the most benifit. Would the 250lb woman benifit more from signing on to other dating websites and throwing her net wider or would her efforts be more efficacious if they were spent increasing her own personal level of attractiveness? One thing you missed. You and moy are the only ones who told him the truth to beef up and do what he can to look better. The rest was typical loveshack bull****.
MGX Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Well, I don't really believe that anyone is "meant" to find anyone. But I think that shutting one's ears to advice is going to be self-fulfilling. Yes, people can go overboard and yes the challenges vary for different people. But JJS's response is basically saying to reject all advice given on here out of a fear that it will be hurtful to hear that you might have areas in which to improve, and that is extremely short-sighted IMO. Presumably people come here for others' thoughts and for other viewpoints, not for an echo chamber telling you what you want to hear. There are other fora for that. I'm coming from the viewpoint that there might not be anything to fix. Since women just aren't attracted to him/can't see themselves with him, he shouldn't waste his life waiting for their validation. Instead, he should forget about romance and live for himself. Plenty of people are happy being alone and single. This guy can be too. 4
Mangina Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I'm coming from the viewpoint that there might not be anything to fix. Since women just aren't attracted to him/can't see themselves with him, he shouldn't waste his life waiting for their validation. Instead, he should forget about romance and live for himself. Plenty of people are happy being alone and single. This guy can be too. Looks seem to fly under the radar. Do this do that and you will find a girl friend. When in the real world no body wants to date someone they are not attracted to. They aurgue people have different opinions and that is true but they do not vary as much as people here say.
Moy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Whilst having a girlfriend would undoubtedly add to my life if I have to eat 3000+ calories a day + lift weights just to achieve it then it starts to go well past the cost benefit analysis. That sort of bulking is seriously hard work, I tried it briefly and if thats what it takes to earn the 'privilege' of dating an average girl then no thanks, I'll stay single. Which is exactly why you must do it for yourself. If you have to be a Tom Hardy just to seek the approval of a Lena Dunham, then the only winning move is not to play at all! 1
Moy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 One thing you missed. You and moy are the only ones who told him the truth to beef up and do what he can to look better. The rest was typical loveshack bull****. I was 5ft 8, 140lbs and a virgin in my 20s. I started at the gym aged 22 and by age 24 I'd put on 20lbs. I was the same person that I was two years earlier - no more or less confident. I also invested in clothes that flattered my physique. I soon went on a spree of 'activity' that I had only dreamed of in the years prior!
Moy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 You guys are all definitely right. It's time for a self reflection not for another 5 years of searching the Earth endlessly. I'm fairly convinced getting myself in better shape will help. And if that doesn't work even after achieving the physique I was after then I'll do what the others have said and just focus on myself since in that case there really would be nothing out there.
JuneJulySeptember Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) People here are nutty about trying to 'improve' themselves so they can land the best mate and social circle possible. How many people have YOU rejected that if they dressed a little better, had a little better job, made $20,000/yr more and were a bit more interesting, you'd date them? I'd venture to guess not many. Most attraction hinges on pure physical attraction and your BASE personality. So, until they have 100% facial reconstruction surgery, you're not going to be making much of a difference. And really, if little things like 25 pounds, $20,000, and 2 years of interesting trips and stories ARE the difference between you accepting and rejecting a person, then shame on you. You're kinda petty. Edited March 13, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember 4
Moy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I'd wager that that the petty ones are those doing the rejecting prior to any improvements. That's if you were referring to the rejectors and not the rejectees as the petty ones. As someone said above, if that level of work is what it takes to meet somebody then it's best to stay single....which is what I've now gladly decided to do. Edited March 13, 2015 by Moy
Moy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) The thing is, that's really not what the average girl wants anyway. Wanna bet? Hypergamy is running wild these days! The 80/20 rule is in full effect. 80% of men don't even qualify as men to the average woman. http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/ Edited March 13, 2015 by Moy 1
BlueIris Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 The “looks and money” belief is about base personality, and I’d even say it is a reflection of one’s character, what he values most in other people and himself. Interesting trips and stories, on the other hand, as well as how someone converses about those things, is valued by many.
Mangina Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Wanna bet? Hypergamy is running wild these days! It has been my experience that very beautiful girls go for money. Almost every time. I have not seen any average or ugly gold diggers. Only exponentially beautiful.
oldshirt Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Ok so here's what I tried in terms of finding a gf. 1.Messaging women on Okcupid. - biggest fail of anything I've ever done in 2.Messaging women on POF. - 2nd biggest fail of anything I've ever done in 3.Long Distance Relationships via language/cultural exchange sites - lasted a few months and failed (cheating) 4. Fitness Meetups - people kept to themselves a lot or came with someone 5. College - Probably the better approach but interactions were often too limited 6. Facebook - Old female friends all taken and completely changed even if they liked me before 7. Anywhere else in real life - extremely slow and limited dating pool Anyone got any other ideas I could try I'm kinda out lol I was thinking I could get ripped and then try the list again, but it seems so pointless. I mean I could send another 500,000 messages but if I have to send out that many what does that say about me. Since your question is about what else you can try, my sincere suggestion is that you get off the computer and get off the dating sites etc and give yourself several months to make yourself more attractive and desirable to women. Because here's the thing- if you are an attractive person, you can get women anywhere and everywhere. If you are not, then being on all the sites in the world or hitting the bar every night is not going to work. There are are certain traits and characteristics that women find universally attractive and the more you develop those traits in yourself the more success you will have regardless of the venue. Here is a homework assignment. Take the pressure off trying to find a GF for several months and do the following and then let them find you - - if you are unemployed, get a job and dedicate yourself to being employee of the month.....month after month. - get the programs Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5 x 5 and follow the workouts and the diet to the letter. - join an MMA or Muey Thai kickboxing gym for your cardio. The confidence you get from being able to kick other men's asses will carry over to other things. - pick out one of your primary passions and take formal classes in it and become an expert and become an instructor in it. - get a daily subscription to the primary newspaper (actually printed on paper) for your area and read it front to back every single day. - read one best selling and one obscure book every month. - look every person, man, woman or child that you encounter and say hi. - go out with friends and do fun, active things. If all your friends want to do is play video games in their moms basement - find new friends. - join a club that interests you and attend all of their meetings and functions. - learn to either make or fix something. Do all of these things for at least several months. Then ask a hot chick to take you out clothes shopping for a new stylish wardrobe and get a current, stylish hairstyle. If you wear glasses, get contacts or get new contemporary stylish frames. By that time, you'll have several to pick from in a variety of different venues. Edited March 13, 2015 by oldshirt 3
Pauduro Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Go take some salsa or bachata lessons, you'll meet girls there who are most likely single. Look in the right places. I always say... if I was back in HS again I'd go learn how to dance and shoot for doing it professionally. A guy can be built, but the dancer rules the dance floor! Once while hanging out with college friends, I saw this young couple dancing and everyone stopped and just watched. I noticed the look in all of the women's faces there. I often hear guys say... it's hard to find a woman who likes to cook nowadays. I disagree. You could very well meet that great cook by hanging at a bar, but I suggest the nearest bar to the culinary school! Look in the right places. Edited March 13, 2015 by Pauduro
oldshirt Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 It has been my experience that very beautiful girls go for money. Almost every time. I have not seen any average or ugly gold diggers. Only exponentially beautiful. Just as many ugly wannabe gold diggers as beautiful, they just aren't as successful at it. 1
BlueIris Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 It has been my experience that very beautiful girls go for money. Almost every time. I have not seen any average or ugly gold diggers. Only exponentially beautiful. Why be concerned about the very beautiful girls? or even about the rich men? They’re a tiny % of the population. When I read the "how do I get a date or GF?" threads, every time I wonder, what is the OP looking for, what does he want? To get laid, to be more popular with some group of women, to find a partner for life, or something else? Most avoid answering this question, but it's impossible to reach a goal if the goal isn't clearly defined.
serial muse Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Wanna bet? Hypergamy is running wild these days! The 80/20 rule is in full effect. 80% of men don't even qualify as men to the average woman. Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends Sure, I'd take that bet. But since it's impossible to prove there isn't much point. Talk about nutty. You guys just seem to want to egg each other on. There are whole other fora devoted to this stuff. I'm sure you're each very familiar with those. So what do you want from loveshack, I wonder? Yet another rousing rendition of the same old same old? I don't get it but cheers I guess.
oldshirt Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I was 5ft 8, 140lbs and a virgin in my 20s. I started at the gym aged 22 and by age 24 I'd put on 20lbs. I was the same person that I was two years earlier - no more or less confident. I also invested in clothes that flattered my physique. I soon went on a spree of 'activity' that I had only dreamed of in the years prior! My experience is exactly the same. There is definately a threshold of size and stature that has to be met for a guy. I wasn't a virgin or completely dateless when I was in the 140s in my late teens/early 20s, but it was definately an uphill battle and the quality of women I could get wasn't what I was wanting. Once I got to my mid 20s and hit about 165 lbs with visible musculature it was like flipping a switch. It was like I somehow finally passed the initiation to some club that I didn't even know existed. I strongly disagree with those that say musculature doesn't matter much to women. They may not require or even like the hypertrophied bodybuilders flexing on stage, but there is a huge jump in success going from scrawny to average. There is probably a point of diminishing returns and a guy going from 16" biceps to 18" biceps or 18" to 20" isn't that big a deal. But going from 12" to 15" is huge. I'm just using biceps as a specific example but you can probably apply it to about anything. The key is probably just not being below average in anything. Being significantly above ave is the best and you'll have it made without even trying, but at least being ave and amongst the masses gives you a fighting chance and then you can employ some of your other traits and abilities and someone will take notice of those. But in the case of the OP who is of fairly normal height but only 138 lbs, untill he has some beef on his bones, not much else is going to matter. If he were to take the time and energy he is putting towards online dating and put that towards eating right and working out, he will reap the rewards of that in spades once he gets some muscle mass on those bones. 1
oldshirt Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 If he were to take the time and energy he is putting towards online dating and put that towards eating right and working out, he will reap the rewards of that in spades once he gets some muscle mass on those bones. Just a side note, one of the issues young guys have today is they think it's all about 'da abz.' Yes abs are a plus.....on a fit, muscular man. The problem is these boys are living on rice cakes and Greek yogurt because the don't want to lose their 'abz.' But Mark Riptoe the author of Starting Strength put it best - "abs on a skinny guy are like big tits on a fat chick." Your body stature and composition has to be to a certain bar before any specific features like abz or pretty blue eyes or nice hooters mean anything. Men and women are judged differently in the dating market place. Men can get away with being a little overweight if they are tall and successful and have social status. Women often can't. Women can get away with being scrawny to a point. But men can't.
Author kolleamm Posted March 13, 2015 Author Posted March 13, 2015 Since your question is about what else you can try, my sincere suggestion is that you get off the computer and get off the dating sites etc and give yourself several months to make yourself more attractive and desirable to women. Because here's the thing- if you are an attractive person, you can get women anywhere and everywhere. If you are not, then being on all the sites in the world or hitting the bar every night is not going to work. There are are certain traits and characteristics that women find universally attractive and the more you develop those traits in yourself the more success you will have regardless of the venue. Here is a homework assignment. Take the pressure off trying to find a GF for several months and do the following and then let them find you - - if you are unemployed, get a job and dedicate yourself to being employee of the month.....month after month. - get the programs Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5 x 5 and follow the workouts and the diet to the letter. - join an MMA or Muey Thai kickboxing gym for your cardio. The confidence you get from being able to kick other men's asses will carry over to other things. - pick out one of your primary passions and take formal classes in it and become an expert and become an instructor in it. - get a daily subscription to the primary newspaper (actually printed on paper) for your area and read it front to back every single day. - read one best selling and one obscure book every month. - look every person, man, woman or child that you encounter and say hi. - go out with friends and do fun, active things. If all your friends want to do is play video games in their moms basement - find new friends. - join a club that interests you and attend all of their meetings and functions. - learn to either make or fix something. Do all of these things for at least several months. Then ask a hot chick to take you out clothes shopping for a new stylish wardrobe and get a current, stylish hairstyle. If you wear glasses, get contacts or get new contemporary stylish frames. By that time, you'll have several to pick from in a variety of different venues. Wow oldshirt you really are awesome. Thank you so much for writing all this and being such a great motivator. You can rest assured I will follow everything you have said and will not waste my time searching or whatever else I was doing until I see the results I have my mind set on. Thank you as well Moy! I'm gonna give it my all. 1
insert_name Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Which is exactly why you must do it for yourself. If you have to be a Tom Hardy just to seek the approval of a Lena Dunham, then the only winning move is not to play at all! Spot on. I would like to be built like a brick ****house, but I am a thoroughbred 6"1 ectomorph and it takes waaaaaay too much time, money and effort to change that. I haave already tried, I know. The positive side of this is that I am the guinea pig for all the women that claim its your positive outlook that makes the difference and many a muscle bound man will be inferior in my presence due to my sheer force of will. (Hahahahaha yeah right :laugh ) I look forward to proving them wrong!
organizedchaos Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 People here are nutty about trying to 'improve' themselves so they can land the best mate and social circle possible. How many people have YOU rejected that if they dressed a little better, had a little better job, made $20,000/yr more and were a bit more interesting, you'd date them? I'd venture to guess not many. Most attraction hinges on pure physical attraction and your BASE personality. So, until they have 100% facial reconstruction surgery, you're not going to be making much of a difference. And really, if little things like 25 pounds, $20,000, and 2 years of interesting trips and stories ARE the difference between you accepting and rejecting a person, then shame on you. You're kinda petty. Adding 25 pounds of muscle will most certainly change your physical appearance and attraction. Have you ever seen an ugly, ripped, guy before? Your facial features along with your body will change, no doubt. And on top of that, your confidence changes along with your body, which in turn, changes your personality. It takes some work, you know. You can't have a girl just handed to you without you putting in some effort as well. Struggling dudes always seem to have an excuse. 2
Mangina Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Wanna bet? Hypergamy is running wild these days! The 80/20 rule is in full effect. 80% of men don't even qualify as men to the average woman. Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends Why be concerned about the very beautiful girls? or even about the rich men? They’re a tiny % of the population. When I read the "how do I get a date or GF?" threads, every time I wonder, what is the OP looking for, what does he want? To get laid, to be more popular with some group of women, to find a partner for life, or something else? Most avoid answering this question, but it's impossible to reach a goal if the goal isn't clearly defined. The conversation shirfted to that. It does not matter what I am concerned with. You must have missed the issue at bay. A lot of us guys are not even prospects for the average girl. If you have any doubt try online dating. Try online dating as a guy then you will see just how screwed we are. 1
Moy Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 The conversation shirfted to that. It does not matter what I am concerned with. You must have missed the issue at bay. A lot of us guys are not even prospects for the average girl. If you have any doubt try online dating. Try online dating as a guy then you will see just how screwed we are. Actually, to any ladies reading this, here's a challenge. Set up a profile on POF/OKC as a man. Set your height as 5ft 9-10ins. Use a pic of an average Joe. Set your income at about £25,000-£30,000 a year. Keep your profile up for a month and message women whose profiles pique your interest through common goals, activities etc. Behold the tumbleweed! 2
ltjg45 Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Adding 25 pounds of muscle will most certainly change your physical appearance and attraction. Have you ever seen an ugly, ripped, guy before? Your facial features along with your body will change, no doubt. And on top of that, your confidence changes along with your body, which in turn, changes your personality. It takes some work, you know. You can't have a girl just handed to you without you putting in some effort as well. Struggling dudes always seem to have an excuse. I do have to wonder how difficult it would be for me to add that kind of muscle. As of right now, I am currently paying for a personal trainer. I am working out a total of 10 times a month, alternating between 2-3 times a week. This will be going on for the next 5 month. My first month is done in 2 days. I am curious if this will be enough to add such muscle or do I need to take it a step further by going up to 4 times a week, every week. As of right now, I don't feel that I have changed much outside that I can handle the training a little bit easier from when I started.
LookAtThisPOst Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Getting ripped is certainly an option if you really want to devote yourself to it, Funny how you assume this guy isn't "ripped" but offering up a suggestion that he should. I guess you missed the part about him joining Fitness Meetups?
Recommended Posts