why you don't want to know the specifics & you need an objective friend

March 12, 2015

A local radio station here started doing this bit where if you meet somebody on OLD & they don't respond to calls, texts & e-mails after that 1st meeting, the station will call that person for you & find out what's really going on.

It's a train wreck & I don't understand why people participate but they do.

This morning was particularly awful. The guy thought the date went great because the woman laughed & giggled the whole time. He interpreted that to mean she liked his sense of humor & they got along well. From the minute the DJ got her on the phone you could tell it was nervous laughter because she was so uncomfortable. (Again why would she agree to be on the radio? but I digress). Anyway she started with the cliches: we didn't click, I just didn't feel it. After prodding from the DJ, she got specific & it was devastating for the guy to hear. He played with his food. He had OCD tendencies & kept straightening the things on the table. He would stare at her without blinking while he talked with his mouth full, but then look down at his plate & push his food around while she was talking. It felt like he wasn't paying attention.

IMO the guy should have simply accepted the cliches because they are kinder but he also really needed a good wingman / friend who should have gently pointed out the table manner issues & lack of meaningful eye contact before he went on the date.

March 12, 2015

Eh I actually liked your example, never seen a show like that before. Assuming that she is telling the truth, I would say everything she said is helpful because the mistakes he made are fixable. I don't think it is devastating but rather a learning opportunity. He won't make those mistakes again.

March 12, 2015

A local radio station here started doing this bit where if you meet somebody on OLD & they don't respond to calls, texts & e-mails after that 1st meeting, the station will call that person for you & find out what's really going on.

It's a train wreck & I don't understand why people participate but they do.

This morning was particularly awful. The guy thought the date went great because the woman laughed & giggled the whole time. He interpreted that to mean she liked his sense of humor & they got along well. From the minute the DJ got her on the phone you could tell it was nervous laughter because she was so uncomfortable. (Again why would she agree to be on the radio? but I digress). Anyway she started with the cliches: we didn't click, I just didn't feel it. After prodding from the DJ, she got specific & it was devastating for the guy to hear. He played with his food. He had OCD tendencies & kept straightening the things on the table. He would stare at her without blinking while he talked with his mouth full, but then look down at his plate & push his food around while she was talking. It felt like he wasn't paying attention.

IMO the guy should have simply accepted the cliches because they are kinder but he also really needed a good wingman / friend who should have gently pointed out the table manner issues & lack of meaningful eye contact before he went on the date.

I'm not sure how old you are donnivan, so don't let me insult you, but you seem older in wisdom if not in years (like close to my 40's age).

If so, you, like me, grew up in an age of tact, social graces, manners, and knowing you did not HAVE to say everything that came into your head. You did not grow up hiding behind a screen that made you feel it was okay to blast apart a complete stranger.

I think those who have grown up in the internet age where you do not have to look in the face of the person you are shredding have sort of a disconnect between "I can" and "I should." Just because I CAN tell someone exactly what I think of them in graphic detail doesn't mean I SHOULD.

In other words, I agree with you.

March 12, 2015

It's a train wreck & I don't understand why people participate but they do.

Some people want their piece of 'viral'. It's the new popularity wars. They were simply conducted differently back when I was young. Back then we had the 'water cooler'. Schlock radio was developing but that was before Howard Stern, et al.

As mentioned, vestiges of historical decorum, though eroding, were still around to some extent. It's a brave new world, all around.

March 12, 2015

I'm not sure how old you are donnivan, so don't let me insult you, but you seem older in wisdom if not in years (like close to my 40's age).

We're the same age.

March 12, 2015

Assuming that she is telling the truth, I would say everything she said is helpful because the mistakes he made are fixable. I don't think it is devastating but rather a learning opportunity. He won't make those mistakes again.

True but the 2nd part of my post was where are his friends & relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff, more gently, before he went on the date?

March 12, 2015

True but the 2nd part of my post was where are his friends & relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff, more gently, before he went on the date?

Maybe it's nerves of being on a date that led him to act that way, but when he's out with friends he doesn't act in this manner? Maybe he never goes out to eat with friends (many people don't really unless it's a date). Perhaps he didn't really ever have reason to ask friends how he acts during a meal out because he didn't link his behaviour and foibles to be the reason he wasn't getting second dates.

I agree it sounds like a train wreck but it could be helpful for some too, however hard it is to hear. It sounds like he really acts poorly on dates and if this is stopping him getting many second dates, then I would have thought the short sharp pain of finding out all of your flaws would be worth having the opportunity to clean up your act and be more successful on future dates. Sure, be nicer to happen not in public with others listening, but he chose to seek feedback through that forum, he knew what the format was.

Sometimes feedback can be good. I went out with a guy a couple years ago and we got on well but he wasn't interested in seeing me again past the second date, I would have seen him again but I wasn't smitten so wasn't too bothered. We stayed friendly as we have similar music tastes and figured we'd probably buddy up for obscure gigs at some point, and we never even made it to the kiss. But we got into a discussion several months later and I actually asked him out of curiosity why he'd never wanted to see me again, and he told me if I wanted him to be blunt it was because a) he wasn't over his ex at the time but b) I probably went into too much detail about family issues of mine on the second date. It was kinda understandable as he asked about my family and there was little way of explaining the set up without mentioning my mother had died, he asked why and what my siblings did, to be fair he didn't really know it was going to be a sad story and I didn't bring it up myself initially but I definitely learned that if I was dating again, I would go for glossing over that stuff even more carefully in future first or second dates, just in case it was a bit much. He felt it was a bit deep for a second date and I hadn't really thought of it in that way and although it wasn't the main reason he didn't see me again, it was really interesting to get a brutally honest account of how I come across on dates from someone who didn't mind risking upsetting me. Really enlightening! He gave me some compliments too on the things I did great.

So yeah I can totally see how someone might get really antsy wondering where on earth their date has disappeared to, get frustrated and want to find out even if it is live on air. You ask 'where are his friends and relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff?' but that presumes he has those people in his life. Not everyone does.

March 12, 2015

It seems like the kind of mothers who would teach you your manners are becoming less common. I mean, there are so many mothers who think it would make Junior's brain explode to tell him not to do anything and "don't fight the small wars." It's not a small war if it's something that will affect your everyday life every day of your life. It's really the parents' job to drill the basic manners into their offspring to prepare them for adulthood, but then if they did that, maybe the kid wouldn't be their best friend anymore....sigh.

You can't leave it to kids to teach other kids manners because they'll show you a gob of unswallowed food just to gross you out if you broach the subject. And by the time you're dating age, if you're that gross, no one with any manners is going to want to be seen in public with you long enough to correct you. So parents, get busy. It's your job and no one else's. I swear if I'd had a kid, I'd have sent them to a finishing school for basic manners that are beyond what I can teach them with my humble background. They do have etiquette classes most places now.

I was talking to a guy online years ago that I got close to and one thing he asked me I'd never thought about was if I was a "swivelhead." Had to ask him what that was. It was a pet peeve of his when he was with a date and they kept looking around or over his shoulder. I am guilty of that too, so I took that piece of advice to heart. Apparently he interprets it as looking around for someone they like better. I told him when I did it it wasn't at all for that reason, but just nervous habit.

March 12, 2015

True but the 2nd part of my post was where are his friends & relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff, more gently, before he went on the date?

Poor guy was probably just super nervous. Woman was not interested and was sort of put on the spot by the radio host too.

That being said, there is a part of me that really, really wants to listen to that show

lmao

March 12, 2015

True but the 2nd part of my post was where are his friends & relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff, more gently, before he went on the date?

To be fair not everyone has friends and family that they can turn to. I come from a Muslim family where dating is forbidden and arranged marriages are the norm. There is no way I could ask my family advice about this.

Also the guy sounds like he may have social skills problems. Most people can tell the difference between genuine laughter and awkward laughter.

March 12, 2015

True but the 2nd part of my post was where are his friends & relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff, more gently, before he went on the date?

Maybe his whole family is that way or maybe they don't eat dinner together too often.

And maybe the only time his friends see him eat is when they've been drinking.

On a side note, I think I maybe dated that guy.

March 12, 2015

On a side note, I think I maybe dated that guy.

You may have. It was on PLJ this morning.

March 12, 2015

You may have. It was on PLJ this morning.

Is there an internet stream of this station? I so want to hear this.

March 12, 2015

Is there an internet stream of this station? I so want to hear this.

I have no idea but they have a website so feel free to do a search. They do this bit every so often. Today was the 1st day I listened.

March 12, 2015

I actually think it will probably help the guy out for next time. They probably did him a big favor.

Do they get tickets to a concert or anything for being on the show?

I tried to win Neil Diamond tickets for Sunday to take my mom to because she likes him but I didn't know which beer was having the highest increase in sales. I thought it was micro brew but really it is Mexican so I didn't win because I answered wrong.

March 13, 2015

I have no idea but they have a website so feel free to do a search. They do this bit every so often. Today was the 1st day I listened.

They do. Is it during the morning show?

March 13, 2015

A local radio station here started doing this bit where if you meet somebody on OLD & they don't respond to calls, texts & e-mails after that 1st meeting, the station will call that person for you & find out what's really going on.

It's a train wreck & I don't understand why people participate but they do.

This morning was particularly awful. The guy thought the date went great because the woman laughed & giggled the whole time. He interpreted that to mean she liked his sense of humor & they got along well. From the minute the DJ got her on the phone you could tell it was nervous laughter because she was so uncomfortable. (Again why would she agree to be on the radio? but I digress). Anyway she started with the cliches: we didn't click, I just didn't feel it. After prodding from the DJ, she got specific & it was devastating for the guy to hear. He played with his food. He had OCD tendencies & kept straightening the things on the table. He would stare at her without blinking while he talked with his mouth full, but then look down at his plate & push his food around while she was talking. It felt like he wasn't paying attention.

IMO the guy should have simply accepted the cliches because they are kinder but he also really needed a good wingman / friend who should have gently pointed out the table manner issues & lack of meaningful eye contact before he went on the date.

He was nervous. Bank on it. How would I know? Happens to me, not just on dates but on job interviews. Don't blame him for wanting to know.

March 13, 2015

He was nervous. Bank on it. How would I know? Happens to me, not just on dates but on job interviews. Don't blame him for wanting to know.

I just wish he hadn't had to be told with a bunch of strangers listening. Now that he knows, I wonder if he will try to improve himself or just blame the girl or all women

March 13, 2015

People get nervous. Everybody gets nervous. Nervous doesn't excuse poor table manners, like talking with your mouth full.

My point remains that the clichés exist for a reason & if you are being given them as a reason someone doesn't want to go on a 2nd date with you sometimes it's better not to know.

March 13, 2015

People get nervous. Everybody gets nervous. Nervous doesn't excuse poor table manners, like talking with your mouth full.

My point remains that the clichés exist for a reason & if you are being given them as a reason someone doesn't want to go on a 2nd date with you sometimes it's better not to know.

I disagree. If he doesn't know how will he know what behaviors to avoid on the next date with someone else?

March 13, 2015

People get nervous. Everybody gets nervous. Nervous doesn't excuse poor table manners, like talking with your mouth full.

My point remains that the clichés exist for a reason & if you are being given them as a reason someone doesn't want to go on a 2nd date with you sometimes it's better not to know.

No, not everybody gets nervous. Not that nervous. The chewing with his mouth open was due to nervousness. Is it worth it to not give a second chance? Doesn't matter what my opinion is, it'll be disagreed with. It's a shame that first impressions mean everything. A devious guy who knows exactly what to say and do to put a woman at ease an fool most women, with behavior far worse than chewing with his mouth open. But it's the way if the world. Job interviews are the same way and I've lost out on those too. The interviewers usually are mid to high executives who just love the power they have and will pounce on every perceived mistake.

March 13, 2015

I'm not trying to pounce on anyone. However, there are certain social conventions that have consequences when you deviate from them -- like talking with your mouth full of food. The thing about good manners, if you fall back on them -- those norms -- especially when you are nervous -- they will bring you comfort & assure that you are evaluated based on who you are, not because you violated the convention.

In my example from the call in show, the woman's giggling, was a sign of nervousness. That is something that should be overlooked. Personally I talk too much when nervous.

Being jittery & spilling the water OK fine but certain things can't be excused because some one is nervous.

At some point, people who have poor social skills & lack appropriate boundaries make others nervous & uncomfortable. that doesn't bode well for a connection.

The good news, manners & some conventions can be learned or re-learned. Emily Post publishes a book for a reason. Other services like Dale Carnegie can help reduce anxiety social anxiety. Part of it takes practice.

March 13, 2015

Look, we all come from different backgrounds, but IMO, where there's a will, there's a way and your common sense should tell you that the way you are acting just ain't right....And, if you didn't learn at home, you got TV, other people, etc to learn some manners from!!!

Like the guy I went out on a date with like a year or so ago, in his late 30's, with kids, and did not understand the concept of eating with a fork and KNIFE. Worst, he showed up to the date in cargo shorts. When he dated/went out with the mother of his kids, is that how he dressed? What table manners are his kids learning? We grew up poor, but one of my fondest childhood memories is dad showing me how to use a fork and knife to cut something.

Then, over the years I just watched others and you don't need to be a genius to know that using a butter knife to stir your ice tea at a formal dinner is just wrong. I also nabbed up Glamour, Vogue, etc.

I don't know how this generation is been/being raised. They have no manners, can't keep a home and/or yard neat, have nasty cars and I've said over and over again how I don't know how they end up married and can't cook, clean, etc. Where/when did parents stop raising people with any skills, values, manners? And why/how this generation has lost any motivation to correct themselves?

Eating with your mouth open? Really?

Look, I have insecurities, but I can fake confidence too. I've had people compliment me on presentations, briefs, etc and the whole time I was peeing in my panties.

That's another reason I can't stand dating now a days. You don't know how to use a knife and fork in your late 30's????? Really?!?

March 13, 2015

I'm not trying to pounce on anyone. However, there are certain social conventions that have consequences when you deviate from them -- like talking with your mouth full of food. The thing about good manners, if you fall back on them -- those norms -- especially when you are nervous -- they will bring you comfort & assure that you are evaluated based on who you are, not because you violated the convention.

In my example from the call in show, the woman's giggling, was a sign of nervousness. That is something that should be overlooked. Personally I talk too much when nervous.

Being jittery & spilling the water OK fine but certain things can't be excused because some one is nervous.

At some point, people who have poor social skills & lack appropriate boundaries make others nervous & uncomfortable. that doesn't bode well for a connection.

The good news, manners & some conventions can be learned or re-learned. Emily Post publishes a book for a reason. Other services like Dale Carnegie can help reduce anxiety social anxiety. Part of it takes practice.

Well you did pounce. As a guy who's going to be 44 in a few weeks who's still a virgin, my opinion will never be valued and if I want to know why sex feels like I'll have to go pay for it. I'm one of these people who doesn't have the best social skills, as much as I might try. You bet it makes women uncomfortable and there's nothing I can do about it. To me it as outrageous that a good looking, smooth talking guy can easily get into women's pants within hours, while a decent guy with poor social skills is guaranteed to be single forever. Sorry you're wrong about these things being learned. I have tried and tried and retired. At almost 44 I am done trying.

March 13, 2015

Well you did pounce. As a guy who's going to be 44 in a few weeks who's still a virgin, my opinion will never be valued and if I want to know why sex feels like I'll have to go pay for it. I'm one of these people who doesn't have the best social skills, as much as I might try. You bet it makes women uncomfortable and there's nothing I can do about it. To me it as outrageous that a good looking, smooth talking guy can easily get into women's pants within hours, while a decent guy with poor social skills is guaranteed to be single forever. Sorry you're wrong about these things being learned. I have tried and tried and retired. At almost 44 I am done trying.

Posts like this scare me honestly. I mean from donnivain's story about the 50 year old virgin to your story as a 44 year old virgin it seems like both of you have social skill problems. It makes me scared of what I'll be like if I'm still a virgin at that age and it makes me wonder if people think I have social skill problems now.

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