Conflict

[Ruby Slippers]

I've had the same impression of your relationship from all your threads: he's just not that into you. He sounds like a guy without much experience who's happy to have someone in his life, but he's not enamored with you as that one special girl. He's trying to be "responsible" and step up, but he's not that motivated because he just doesn't have those deeper feelings for you. I don't mean to be harsh, but that's how I see it. It's not his fault. It's not your fault. It's just the way it is.

 

I don't think any woman will be truly happy with a man who isn't enamored with her, doesn't see her as that one special girl for him. Of course, many women settle for much less, but those couples are more susceptible to all kinds of problems because it's just not quite right.

 

I left my ex because, although he was a terrific catch, he was doing almost all the right things to progress the relationship, and I loved him, I never felt truly loved and treasured with him. He had a pragmatic view of love that is very different from my own, and he was happy to stick with me even though he wasn't enamored. I choose love over money (or comfort, convenience, pragmatism, etc.).

 

Now I'm messaging with a guy who seems like part 2 of him - gorgeous, smart, high earning, dominating, and arrogant. They even drive a similar car. This guy is almost a decade older than my ex, so he's more experienced and wiser. We might meet tomorrow, but I'm not sure I want to. I think this type appeared again because I didn't fully get the lesson the first time - the lesson being that it doesn't matter how amazing a guy is and how into him I am, if he's not just as into me or more, it won't be a happy relationship for me.

 

So the question for you is: Why are you settling for this? Do you think this is the best you can do? Would you rather be semi-comfortable with a guy who's not fired up about you than be alone and keep looking for a guy who really adores you? What's it gonna be?

[Gary S]

 

Although you and he live 40 minutes apart, he has a car and you don't. Therefore, HE should make more of the effort to work out in your neighborhood after work if his gym-time is that important to him. Then he can stop by your place right afterwards without a long commute. Has he offered to do that?

 

.

 

 

- I agree... even when both my girlfriend and I had cars, I was the one who went to her place and picked her up for a date. But he the only one with the car? I'd be picking you up every time.

 

However, it sounds like you two had a talk, he's seen the light, it sounds like you are working it out. Carry on...

[losangelena]

So the question for you is: Why are you settling for this? Do you think this is the best you can do? Would you rather be semi-comfortable with a guy who's not fired up about you than be alone and keep looking for a guy who really adores you? What's it gonna be?

 

That is the $64,000 question, isn't it.

 

I don't think this relationship is the best I can do. I work with a therapist weekly, and he is always encouraging me to voice my needs and wants with my BF, that that is the way to vulnerability and closeness. This is hard for me, it's a barrier.

 

I have put up with his wishy-washy-ness for this long for several reasons—I was scared to know how he really felt; I thought that maybe his lack of experience meant he just wasn't great at relationship stuff but that it wasn't an indication of his true feelings.

 

I thought MAYBE this relationship could be good, but that in order to achieve that, it meant that I'd have to take the first step in being vulnerable by stating needs and wants. I have brought up other stuff in the past, and those went over fairly well. I'm not sure why last night was so different and turned into such a big deal for him.

 

There have been times where he's seemed "all in;" he's said things to me that are very emotional. It's those moments where I go, maybe this is worth it. I don't think he does these thing maliciously, but still I do feel taken for granted in a lot of ways.

 

All that said, I'm curious to see how/if things will change.

[losangelena]

Although you and he live 40 minutes apart, he has a car and you don't. Therefore, HE should make more of the effort to work out in your neighborhood after work if his gym-time is that important to him. Then he can stop by your place right afterwards without a long commute. Has he offered to do that?

 

No. His friend/trainer/gym buddy has them go to a gym that's about an additional 30-min out of the way. Plus, I work much closer to him than where I live, so it's easier actually for me to come over to him after work. That being said, I understand your point.

 

I think another part of the problem is that he has a hard time saying no—saying no to me (as in, agreeing to do things because I want it, and not necessarily because he does), and saying no to this friend. So, I can see how he feels pressured by this guy (he is a bit of a pushy assh*le sometimes) and feels like he can't say no to him, but then I have to deal with the fallout. I don't think it occurs to him to say to his trainer, "no, I can't pick you up to go to gym because it takes too long to drop you off afterward and my GF is waiting for me," or "no, I can't go to lunch after the gym because I have plans."

 

In some way, I understand where he's coming from, because I used to be just like that, but in this context it's very annoying.

[Gary S]

Well, you might want to give him a little leeway with his friendship with the trainer.... if workingout is makin' him look hot, that benefits you too. I'm just sayin'!

[preraph]

I tell you, it's a typical response. You ask for some advance notice or just ANYTHING in the way of courtesy and they think you're asking for a ring and bail. Chalk it up to him not being ready for a real relationship.

 

In the future, I've found that by far the best way to handle it is to not let it reach the point to where you have to get on them for something that's been going on that you've been tolerating for awhile. You stop it the first time it happens unless someone died or something. Four little words: "Sorry, I have plans." No explanation. You simply are not available at the last minute, ever. If they want to see you, they need to get used to being courteous from the beginning. And if they cannot, they are not the man for you. Because I don't know about you, but I like a man who can tell time.

[Versacehottie]

That's what my friend last night said, too. And I agree—I don't want to force his hand, nag, or twist his arm. If he wants to ramp things up, I want it to come from him. My concern is that, now that's it's all already become "a big deal" after our fight last night, that it's going to be hard to proceed in a normal way, that all of that will be hanging over everything.

 

Just tell him (a little sneaky but necessary): oh, you know that discussion we had the other day, you made some good points and as excited as i was about you when we started our relationship, i agree I miss some of the things I get to do when we are not together. I'm sure we will work it out.

 

Keep it short and sweet. Quick couple of sentences to "reset" and have very little hanging over your heads and nothing for him to rebel against. Then follow the plan where you DO do your own things and he should be trying to pursue you I would guess. If he doesn't well, you will have saved yourself a few months of aggravation and frustration and arguing by being right there. Don't become the "authoratative" figure in the relationship. It's too much of a mother vibe and it freaks guys out and isn't sexy. Use this little breakdown to show him your more free, fun side where he will want to pin you down.

[BlueIris]

I tell you, it's a typical response. You ask for some advance notice or just ANYTHING in the way of courtesy and they think you're asking for a ring and bail. Chalk it up to him not being ready for a real relationship.

 

In the future, I've found that by far the best way to handle it is to not let it reach the point to where you have to get on them for something that's been going on that you've been tolerating for awhile. You stop it the first time it happens unless someone died or something. Four little words: "Sorry, I have plans." No explanation. You simply are not available at the last minute, ever. If they want to see you, they need to get used to being courteous from the beginning. And if they cannot, they are not the man for you. Because I don't know about you, but I like a man who can tell time.

 

I agree. Treat your S.O. at least as well as you'd treat a business client or associate, or a tennis partner-- and preferably better.

 

Don't become the "authoratative" figure in the relationship. It's too much of a mother vibe and it freaks guys out and isn't sexy.

 

That's funny you thought "mom vibe." I did too, in a different way. I always suspected that the assumption that your (general, not specific, "you") S.O. was available whenever you wished, or always put you first, was similar to how children view parents- always there, don't have to arrange times or coordinate schedules. My exH did this for a while, assumed my schedule revolved around his and that I was always there or would always be there. (My fault, I let it happen.)

 

I'm not saying it's necessarily the case for OP, but in some cases it shows a self-centeredness that runs deep, common among folks who view a relationship, GF, or BF as "something" added onto their lives to make their lives better, not as a fusion of two separate lives in which both adjust and change to create something new.

Edited March 11, 2015 by BlueIris

[Leigh 87]

Losangelina,

 

I have always gotten the vibe that your guy just wasn't that into you.

 

He clearly thinks you're a great woman, which you certainly do sound like! He obviously wanted to give things a go with you because he liked your personality and he thought you seemed like a great woman to have as a girlfriend.

 

My guy just brought me flowers for our second meet; I only had 1, 1 hour block during my day at college... he drove just to see me for one hour, with flowers.

 

If you want a guy who SHOWS you how into you he is through planning lovely dates, and treating you to cute gifts now and again... well, you have to FIND a guy who is smitten. OR, find a guy who's love language is showering his girl with plenty of attention and gifts. OR perhaps your love language is verbal and quality time spent - and he gives neither.

 

I mean, my love languages are things like: physical affection, being treated to gifts occasionally and nice meals out once a week, verbal affection AND quality time.

 

^^^is this guy meeting ANY of those love language related needs? I mean, if a guy is smitten and head over heels for a girl, he adopts at least ONE love language as a means of making it KNOWN that he is "taken" by you.

 

You always criticise and dispel my way of dating. Well, it clearly doesn't work when a guy just isn't nuts about you! And no, a guy rarely goes from thinking " meh, I am not that into her or attracted to her" on date one or two, and then changing to being blown away by you......If a guy is infatuated with you, he knows early on after a date or two.

 

You sound like you guys missed out on the infatuation stage, or the deep "honeymoon" phase of dating, and rather, you don't believe in "fairy tale" bullsh*t and you both tend to form relationships under the guise of " well, I prefer having a partner, I am relationship orientated and so this person will sure do, they are GREAT"

 

I am so sorry to sound blunt, rude or just uncaring... This isn't want you want to hear, and nor am I trying to be dogmatic or convince you to go for guys who are head over heels for you from date one. But come on, you DO need a base level of attraction and it IS better to at least go through the honeymoon phase to begin with, even though it "fades"

[losangelena]

In the future, I've found that by far the best way to handle it is to not let it reach the point to where you have to get on them for something that's been going on that you've been tolerating for awhile. You stop it the first time it happens unless someone died or something. Four little words: "Sorry, I have plans." No explanation. You simply are not available at the last minute, ever. If they want to see you, they need to get used to being courteous from the beginning. And if they cannot, they are not the man for you. Because I don't know about you, but I like a man who can tell time.

 

I totally agree with this. My only regret in all of this is that I didn't bring this stuff up sooner. Setting it up as THE expectation is much easier than having to go back now and set up new rules.

 

And I should add, I do not make a habit of seeing him last minute. I've told him how much it bugs—he knows.

[Ruby Slippers]

In the future, I've found that by far the best way to handle it is to not let it reach the point to where you have to get on them for something that's been going on that you've been tolerating for awhile. You stop it the first time it happens unless someone died or something. Four little words: "Sorry, I have plans." No explanation. You simply are not available at the last minute, ever. If they want to see you, they need to get used to being courteous from the beginning. And if they cannot, they are not the man for you. Because I don't know about you, but I like a man who can tell time.

Exactly.

 

The very first time my ex got lazy and waited until Friday to ask me to do something that weekend, I told him the truth: I have plans. I added that I usually solidify my weekend plans by Wednesday, so if he wants to go out on the weekend, ask me by Wednesday. From then on, he always asked by Wednesday, and often by Tuesday.

[Starship]

If he won't meet you halfway, stop meeting him all the way. Honestly it sounds like he's not super into you if after 6 months he won't let you keep stuff at his place.

 

Exactly.

 

The very first time my ex got lazy and waited until Friday to ask me to do something that weekend, I told him the truth: I have plans. I added that I usually solidify my weekend plans by Wednesday, so if he wants to go out on the weekend, ask me by Wednesday. From then on, he always asked by Wednesday, and often by Tuesday.

 

Not me. I don't train my partner like I do a dog. I expect him to be my partner...considerate and fully aware that we are a couple. It's not some test of wills, conditioning, etc...it's being respectful of each other.

 

I tell him how I feel and ask him to be aware of my feelings. He will make plans with me because he should be considerate and not because I will otherwise not be available.

 

If I was first dating a man and he called me at the last moment...I'd say 'thanks but no thanks'. However, this is not how I treat my partner. I am always there for him unless something else has come up and I would then tell him why I was not available.

[Ruby Slippers]

It's not some test of wills, conditioning, etc...it's being respectful of each other.

I was completely respectful. No drama. When he hadn't invited me out by Thursday, I went ahead and made other plans with friends, and calmly explained my thought process.

 

Why be there for someone who's not there for you? I'm not going to put my life on hold and wait around on some guy I barely know. It suggests desperation, not having a life beyond him - never attractive.

 

A common thread in all of losangelena's threads about this relationship is that she is putting forth more effort than he, and repeatedly feeling let down and unappreciated as a result.

[DivorcedDad123]

Why not just let him go and find this man that meets your criteria, instead of punishing him for being himself? These "do this so he'll realize his mistake" posts are petty.

It's pretty simple. Don't like how you're treated? Don't stick around for more.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I know how much you want this to work, but it's not going to get any better. You have done a fine job articulating your needs and he's repeatedly been unwilling to meet them. The planning thing is especially egregious, and can't be chalked up to cultural differences/men vs. women/whatever else; it's just common courtesy.

 

A guy who cannot commit to giving you a toothbrush and planning ahead after six months is not sufficiently invested to be worth your time.

[Ruby Slippers]

It's pretty simple. Don't like how you're treated? Don't stick around for more.

I agree. I read this from a male dating blogger:

 

Let him do what he wants. If you like it, stay. If you don't like it, go. That is now my approach to dates, friends, family, and clients. So simple and elegant. And it works great.

[Buddhist]

Well that does sound hard. I have to confess I've never come across this problem with relationship partners before. Mostly because if they are not in it, in the beginning, I have little patience to stick around. So I tend to partner up with guys who can make that decision quickly and not begin a heap of freaking out. In fact, I've lived with every single partner at their behest, even though I was quite happy not to. I think the fastest move in together date was 3 weeks from first sexual contact.

 

I guess all you can do here is figure out how you feel about it and make the choice that's best for you. I wouldn't have the patience to be honest, but I'm also not emotionally entangled either. Good luck.

[preraph]

I totally agree with this. My only regret in all of this is that I didn't bring this stuff up sooner. Setting it up as THE expectation is much easier than having to go back now and set up new rules.

 

And I should add, I do not make a habit of seeing him last minute. I've told him how much it bugs—he knows.

 

So he knows and he doesn't care. I get the feeling he's just not really wanting a reciprocal relationship. He just wants to do what's in his comfort zone to get laid.

[Versacehottie]

The toothbrush thing would hurt my feelings a lot. Did he really need to take it that far? Jesus

[losangelena]

So he knows and he doesn't care. I get the feeling he's just not really wanting a reciprocal relationship. He just wants to do what's in his comfort zone to get laid.

 

Yes. That is basically what he said last night, or at least what he said he meant. Don't quite yet know what his apologizing for "being an ass" means (his words, not mine), but I'm willing to give him a chance. But I'm wary. I don't know how I feel, but I no longer feel the need to over function. If he wants, he can step up. Otherwise, I feel like this relationship will have a short shelf life.

 

I feel foolish for not speaking sooner, and last night said I don't want to be some girl who gets you laid, who you can have a conversation with.

 

But why decide to be bf/gf? Seems like that was an unnecessary step if this is all there is.

 

For the record, he doesn't mind the toothbrush, it's anything beyond that he minds.

[Versacehottie]

oh sorry i misunderstood. But yeah you've got the solution right. Just don't do as much and see if he steps it up. That's not game playing. It's giving what you get. Not over-investing. Taking things at the slower person's pace. It will be unfortunate if he can't keep it interesting enough for you to stick around. But sometimes when we take a step back, we can honestly evaluate the other person's actions rather than be emotionally tied into it by how much we've already invested unprompted by the other person. It's precisely about how much you've been putting into it that you care so much. It's not necessarily the person and their actions. You could transfer your same behavior to another guy and you would feel similarly likely. Invested, into it.

 

Btw, sometimes people surprise you when you take a step back. So this could be a positive step even though it's uncomfortable now. To fall in love, a guy (or a girl) needs to put in some of the work in order to feel like they've done something and it paid off. If you do it all, you aren't giving him the chance to have that experience, thus his lackluster effort level relative to yours.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

You asked if you guys could make plans ahead of time and his response was that you're moving too fast. He is not considerate enough of your feelings to help make things even the slightest bit easy after a 90-minute commute. Your visible presence in his life and home, beyond a toothbrush that can be hidden away, is unwelcome to him. Why do you want this to continue? All relationships have rough patches but yours has essentially been one big rough patch from the start and right now your best hope is that he'll become a caring, loving (i.e. different) person. It's not fair to you.

 

As for why agree to be boyfriend and girlfriend for such a minimal investment, I think he has no problems being a "boyfriend" if he can get away with doing so little.

[losangelena]

You asked if you guys could make plans ahead of time and his response was that you're moving too fast. He is not considerate enough of your feelings to help make things even the slightest bit easy after a 90-minute commute. Your visible presence in his life and home, beyond a toothbrush that can be hidden away, is unwelcome to him. Why do you want this to continue? All relationships have rough patches but yours has essentially been one big rough patch from the start and right now your best hope is that he'll become a caring, loving (i.e. different) person. It's not fair to you.

 

As for why agree to be boyfriend and girlfriend for such a minimal investment, I think he has no problems being a "boyfriend" if he can get away with doing so little.

 

I know, and I agree. Now that it's been a couple of days, and I've had time to think, this is more of the conclusion I'm coming to. I've always been the kind of person who takes a bit to fully realize how they're feeling.

 

I'm curious to know what his apology the other night meant—that he's sorry for hurting me and that we'd work it out. Does that mean he'll be willing to change and to put in more effort? If it's more of the same, then no I don't want to participate any longer. If it changes, then that's a different story. That's part of my not knowing how to proceed. Do I ask for a follow up conversation, or do I sit back and wait to see what he does? Or wait and then ask?

 

This is all being complicated by the fact that my mom came to town yesterday, so I can't see or talk to him til she leaves. I kinda think that's a good thing honestly, as it gives me time to process.

 

For the record, this relationship hasn't been all one big struggle. There are ways that he gives—if he didn't do anything, I wouldn't have stuck around this long. However, I fully admit to overfunctioning. I often wonder if I stopped doing the work, if there'd be anything there at all, and honestly, that's part of the reason I've kept at it, because I didn't want to know, 'cause I'd already put in so much effort. Now that he's said what he's said, I see things differently. I'm no longer afraid to just let it all drop and see what happens.

 

I've never been in a relationship this long either, so part of it too, is that I'm not necessarily aware of when these things, like leaving stuff at the other's house, are "supposed" to happen.

 

I think I mentioned upthread, that a couple to weeks ago he invited me on a work trip to Cancun in April, and I said yes I'll go. He asked me yesterday to fill out the necessary info, and I did. Now I'm wondering if I even want to go. I would feel like a total chump if I went if, in the next five weeks, no improvements were made, like god, where is my self respect?

[TigerCub]

 

I'm curious to know what his apology the other night meant—that he's sorry for hurting me and that we'd work it out. Does that mean he'll be willing to change and to put in more effort? If it's more of the same, then no I don't want to participate any longer. If it changes, then that's a different story. That's part of my not knowing how to proceed. Do I ask for a follow up conversation, or do I sit back and wait to see what he does? Or wait and then ask?

 

I personally thought it was just damage control and trying to not lose a gf.

Because even promising, 'we'll work it out' still gives him a LOT of time. If he doesn't change fast enough, he can always say 'I'm trying, you need to give me time, you need to let me adjust because you asking something as simple as "set up dates with me in advance" scares me and makes me panic about the future and feel we are moving too fast - I need time!!'

 

and then he can drag it out for however long it takes for you to finally have enough and dump him.

 

A normal person who is really into a girl doesn't need to have the instructions of 'take initiative and be a gentleman and make time for me'

 

This is all being complicated by the fact that my mom came to town yesterday, so I can't see or talk to him til she leaves. I kinda think that's a good thing honestly, as it gives me time to process.

 

For the record, this relationship hasn't been all one big struggle. There are ways that he gives—if he didn't do anything, I wouldn't have stuck around this long. However, I fully admit to overfunctioning. I often wonder if I stopped doing the work, if there'd be anything there at all, and honestly, that's part of the reason I've kept at it, because I didn't want to know, 'cause I'd already put in so much effort. Now that he's said what he's said, I see things differently. I'm no longer afraid to just let it all drop and see what happens.

 

I've never been in a relationship this long either, so part of it too, is that I'm not necessarily aware of when these things, like leaving stuff at the other's house, are "supposed" to happen.

 

I think I mentioned upthread, that a couple to weeks ago he invited me on a work trip to Cancun in April, and I said yes I'll go. He asked me yesterday to fill out the necessary info, and I did. Now I'm wondering if I even want to go. I would feel like a total chump if I went if, in the next five weeks, no improvements were made, like god, where is my self respect?

 

It's your relationship and you know what's best for you - but if it were me, I wouldn't do the trip - because I wouldn't think that we'd last till April, because I would be dumping him.

 

This 6 month relationship is the longest you have been in, and I totally totally know what it's like to not really know how to deal with something in a relationship. I know how one part of you is saying 'get the hell out!! I deserve better' and yet there is a part of you that's saying 'Well I've never been this far, maybe this is what relationships are like, aren't I supposed to show understanding and compromise?' - but really at the end of the day if you don't feel good and he isn't making you feel like you matter, that should be all you need to just pull the plug, move on to other and better experiences.

[katiegrl]

^^Agree.

 

losangelina, I think you should walk away now before you become even more emotionally invested and attached. I just don't see this situation getting any better, he just isn't into it (or you) the way you are and the way you need him to be.

 

Why prolong the inevitable? Either you walk now, with your head held high, knowing you deserve better.

 

Or you wait until he finds the woman he IS really into, the one who doesn't have to ask him to treat her better, the one he will want to love and cherish and treat like the awesome beautiful woman that she is. After which he WILL dump you for her.

 

Your choice, but if it were me, I would not be sticking around waiting for him to meet his "the one" and dumping me for her. *I* would dump HIM now because I know I deserve better.

 

And so should you.....you are FAB!!!