katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Yea...one or the other initiates, the other is receptive to it, then it's a back and forth mutual effort. I wouldn't say I expect a guy to "chase" as that connotes some type of game but I expect him to put effort and show interest and I will reciprocate. Agree and I have always disliked the word "chased". It implies one person is running away and the other has to chase them to catch them. If I am running away from a guy, you can be damn sure it's cause I DON'T like him and the last thing I want him to do is to continue chasing me! Pursuing means one or the other, or in my relationships both, leading and initiating. The other is responding... NOT running away or making getting to know each other difficult...
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 If I am running away from a guy, you can be damn sure it's cause I DON'T like him and the last thing I want him to do is to continue chasing me!. Katie, if dating was a stock market, common sense would be a rare and valued commodity. Unfortunately some guys are just clueless. As you know, I focus more on a woman's actions and pick up on hints well. But, at the same time, a bit of persistence in the beginning can actually be beneficial since a woman doesn't know you and is selective. But if you ask a woman out and she gives you a maybe, or you make your intentions known and she wants to be "friends" etc you just have to know when to cut your losses.
dcannon Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I don't approach women very often anymore, and since it's been so long since I have on anything resembling a regular basis, I'm not quite sure where or how to start again. In a smaller town, it's very easy to become labeled a "creeper" if you approach women on a regular basis. It's happened to a friend of mine. Even when I catch a woman staring at me in a very obvious manner, there is no guarantee she will be receptive. I catch several women staring at me on many days, especially on weekends. Example: I go through a checkout line and look down to place a few items on the counter. I look back up and see the checkout girl staring at me when I was not looking. These are small purchases, and when she says the price I say: "I think I can handle that." She says: "you had to think about it, huh?" I assume she must be flirting and smiling in a teasing way. I look at her and there is absolutely no expression on her face at all. It was literally frightening: total deadpan. I didn't say anything else. I think these days, there is a strong aversion to risk taking. There is so much social media, so much shaming, so much stigmatization of traditionally masculine and feminine behavior. A lot of people freeze up at the thought of normal social flirting This is leading to a lot more singles, people marrying later in life, waiting longer between relationships.
Gary S Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Something else.... one of the most popular internet advice sites is telling women to send the first contact message on dating sites, and after 2 messages, ask to go to email. Asking for the email address is the first thing the Nigerian boileroom scammers do. Also, why should a woman make the first move and risk rejection when men are the primary pursuers? It's really bad advice. On the other hand, it's good for guys.... all they have to do now is show up for the date and shake their money-maker, just like the supermodels
GemmaUK Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I only read the first OP post but ..I have only had successful RS's from asking men out. They said they were about to ask me out but were shy, biding their time (fair enough) or thought I would say no. I gave a lot of signals of interest. Do men know what interest signals are anymore? Women work on themselves to look good (I do and I change my make up and clothes to suit my age and update my style all the time - I'm no fashion junkie though), men my age seem not to update anything (?) but also I still learn body language etc. Do men do that and still learn or just not? 1
katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Katie, if dating was a stock market, common sense would be a rare and valued commodity. Unfortunately some guys are just clueless. As you know, I focus more on a woman's actions and pick up on hints well. But, at the same time, a bit of persistence in the beginning can actually be beneficial since a woman doesn't know you and is selective. But if you ask a woman out and she gives you a maybe, or you make your intentions known and she wants to be "friends" etc you just have to know when to cut your losses. Sounds like YOU have quite a bit of common sense ff. Persistence is great...when I am responding positively (albeit busy)... however, when I am in "running away" mode, I have already told a guy I am not interested (nicely of course, I say not feeling enough chemistry)...and thereafter stop responding to his texts or calls. Apparently and unfortunately some guys presume I am playing "hard to get" or some variation thereof, and proceed to continue texting and calling (i.e. chasing). Ugh. Is this arrogance, an over abundance of self-confidence, a general disrespect for what the woman wants ( or doesn't want)....or as you suggested, lack of common sense, and cluelessness? Hard to believe some men are really that clueless, but anything is possible I suppose.
dcannon Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Do men know what interest signals are anymore? Do men do that and still learn or just not? There are all sorts of legal and cultural sanctions against approaching women now. Stalking laws, sexual discrimination, sexual harassment don't just limit the most obvious forms of abuse, but discourage everyday, normal flirting. Campus security discourages the practice of approaching women in college. Also, there are no limits to how women can behave in "rejecting" a man. I've seen women inside and outside of bars karate kick men in the groin and head, when these men were not doing anything outside of the ordinary aside from approaching and talking to a woman. Women can also slap and punch men they know, or even men they don't know, again, without any legal consequences. Every job I've had has had an extremely lengthy written policy on sexual harassment, and it is highlighted both verbally and in written form in detail. You can't have it both ways: you can't say that women will be the equal of men and have the right to be just as assertive and then complain that men are approaching as often.
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Sounds like YOU have quite a bit of common sense ff. Persistence is great...when I am responding positively (albeit busy)... however, when I am in "running away" mode, I have already told a guy I am not interested (nicely of course, I say not feeling enough chemistry)...and thereafter stop responding to his texts or calls. Apparently and unfortunately some guys presume I am playing "hard to get" or some variation thereof, and proceed to continue texting and calling (i.e. chasing). Ugh. Is this arrogance, an over abundance of self-confidence, a general disrespect for what the woman wants ( or doesn't want)....or as you suggested, lack of common sense, and cluelessness? Hard to believe some men are really that clueless, but anything is possible I suppose. Yep, persistence when you're open to receiving makes you feel sexy and desired. Still laughing @ "running away" mode. Sometimes what people really need is a full on Home Alone shovel slam right in the face. In general, I think people are just in denial. Take heavy set women online that call themselves "curvy" for example. Deep down, they know they're over weight, but don't want to admit it. Then what's even worse is no one is ever honest with her. She'll ask friends and family if she looks fat in an outfit and they'll all lie and say "Oh you're not fat, you're curvy". Awhile back, I had a knee injury and couldn't train for a year. So I put on a lot of weight. My mom and others were actually honest and said "You're getting way too big and need to lose some weight", I actually appreciated it because it keeps me in check and based in reality. Constructive criticism is actually a good thing, but people in general would rather walk on egg shells and be nice, then be honest.
katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 OMG ff, although I agree it's best to be honest, I would never tell my gf (who is overweight, wears too much makeup, lies about her age on line)....that she was anything but the beautiful human being that she is. And you're right on, online she "does" describe herself as curvy! I wish I could tell her she's doing it all wrong, but if I did all hell would break loose. Some people just don't respond well to criticism.
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 If a woman is a bit larger, but is honest about it and has the self confidence to embrace it, she can still be really hot IMO. So even though I'm a trainer and into fitness, I'm definitely not a "size-ist". But massively obese is another matter all together. My main pet peeve is when a woman sees my preferences clear as day on my profile and still follows up mis-representing herself. I've actually walked out on several first meets because of this. I did make one exception though. A woman calls me the night before and says "My grandfather just died today." So I tell her we can re-schedule. She insists on meeting me. That weirded me out in its own right. But her grandfather just died. Now of course she claimed to be in shape and fit. In person she was 250-300lbs. Since she just lost her grandfather, I didn't walk out and stayed to bowl a few games with her. The whole time she kept flipping between flirting with me and crying. Most terrible/awkward online date I ever had. Then to make matters worse, when I walked her to her car, she threw herself on me and rammed her tongue down my throat. Then she proceeded to text and email stalk me for a month after that until she finally gave up.
smackie9 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I'm an agressive woman and I liked being the chaser/seductress. The push and pull method works for both genders. I can pursue and still be mysterious. Being different make you stand out and get noticed....and not in a negative way that so many women fear. 1
smackie9 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 If a woman is a bit larger, but is honest about it and has the self confidence to embrace it, she can still be really hot IMO. So even though I'm a trainer and into fitness, I'm definitely not a "size-ist". But massively obese is another matter all together. My main pet peeve is when a woman sees my preferences clear as day on my profile and still follows up mis-representing herself. I've actually walked out on several first meets because of this. I did make one exception though. A woman calls me the night before and says "My grandfather just died today." So I tell her we can re-schedule. She insists on meeting me. That weirded me out in its own right. But her grandfather just died. Now of course she claimed to be in shape and fit. In person she was 250-300lbs. Since she just lost her grandfather, I didn't walk out and stayed to bowl a few games with her. The whole time she kept flipping between flirting with me and crying. Most terrible/awkward online date I ever had. Then to make matters worse, when I walked her to her car, she threw herself on me and rammed her tongue down my throat. Then she proceeded to text and email stalk me for a month after that until she finally gave up. More red flags than in a parade here lol
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I'm an agressive woman and I liked being the chaser/seductress. The push and pull method works for both genders. I can pursue and still be mysterious. Being different make you stand out and get noticed....and not in a negative way that so many women fear. You see to me, this is a major turn off. Since I'm 100% old school dominant gentleman, I don't like overly aggressive dominant women. It's one thing if she's actively invested, plans/pays for a date every so often, and initiates sex sometimes. That I am cool with. But I don't want to date a woman that tries to be more of a man than me..LOL
katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 If a woman is a bit larger, but is honest about it and has the self confidence to embrace it, she can still be really hot IMO. So even though I'm a trainer and into fitness, I'm definitely not a "size-ist". But massively obese is another matter all together. My main pet peeve is when a woman sees my preferences clear as day on my profile and still follows up mis-representing herself. I've actually walked out on several first meets because of this. I did make one exception though. A woman calls me the night before and says "My grandfather just died today." So I tell her we can re-schedule. She insists on meeting me. That weirded me out in its own right. But her grandfather just died. Now of course she claimed to be in shape and fit. In person she was 250-300lbs. Since she just lost her grandfather, I didn't walk out and stayed to bowl a few games with her. The whole time she kept flipping between flirting with me and crying. Most terrible/awkward online date I ever had. Then to make matters worse, when I walked her to her car, she threw herself on me and rammed her tongue down my throat. Then she proceeded to text and email stalk me for a month after that until she finally gave up. Okay, that officially made my day...good grief! Yeah not sure what's up with the misrepresentation thing. Maybe they think when you meet in person, the "chemistry" will be so off the charts you'd be willing to make an exception... but to me it just seems dumb and setting yourself up for an automatic rejection. By the way, how do just walk out? What do you say? Just curious. I walked out once by telling him I was going to the rest room and not returning. But that was only cause he kept talking about his ex and how HE was stalking her! Definite dealbreaker.
katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I'm an agressive woman and I liked being the chaser/seductress. The push and pull method works for both genders. I can pursue and still be mysterious. Being different make you stand out and get noticed....and not in a negative way that so many women fear. >>>I can pursue and still be mysterious<< Please do tell !!!
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 By the way, how do just walk out? What do you say? Just curious. I walked out once by telling him I was going to the rest room and not returning. But that was only cause he kept talking about his ex and how HE was stalking her! Definite dealbreaker. Hahahaha.. The old bathroom dash. Classic. My time is really valuable to me and I hate having it wasted. So when someone does, I am just really blunt. I say to her "You lied about yourself and I don't like having my time wasted. So I'm leaving now." Then I just turn around, walk away, and leave her standing there. I've had women call me an a$$h**e, and scream other obscenities at me when I do. But to be honest, I could care less. What you say is true though. I'm sure there are some nice guys that would actually sit there for an hour with her to make polite conversation. But my mindset is that she doesn't deserve my time.
smackie9 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 >>>I can pursue and still be mysterious<< Please do tell !!! You know I should just write a book or do a how to video. lol.
katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Hahahaha.. The old bathroom dash. Classic. My time is really valuable to me and I hate having it wasted. So when someone does, I am just really blunt. I say to her "You lied about yourself and I don't like having my time wasted. So I'm leaving now." Then I just turn around, walk away, and leave her standing there. I've had women call me an a$$h**e, and scream other obscenities at me when I do. But to be honest, I could care less. What you say is true though. I'm sure there are some nice guys that would actually sit there for an hour with her to make polite conversation. But my mindset is that she doesn't deserve my time. I guess I am one of the nice ones too. When faced with a misrepresentation, I never had the heart to be so blunt and just walk out (not knocking you for it though)... I'm just a big sap I guess... ugh.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 This evening I had a good phone call and planned a first meet with a man who has handled every step of the interaction perfectly so far. Classic, masculine gentleman. I realize it's only day 1 and he could be a flake or whatever. But so far I am very turned on by the way he has approached. All I've had to do is relax and enjoy. I'm trying to keep my head out of the clouds, but he's already got me dreaming and even fantasizing because he's such a classic, timeless MAN. Rawr!!! 1
Imported Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Whether the % of men like that is going up or not, I don't think it's being matched by the % of women willing to approach. Not even in the same ballpark. Regardless, it's always best to be the person that calls the shots.
Buddhist Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Whether the % of men like that is going up or not, I don't think it's being matched by the % of women willing to approach. Not even in the same ballpark. Correct. I am not anywhere near as motivated as a man to be partnered or have sex. Therefore I don't bother. Single or partnered? The former is far more enjoyable and easier. It takes a lot to motivate me to approach. I've seen maybe 2-3 men in the past 3yrs I've considered but what they were offering wasn't enough to make me cross the line into action. I could just as easily pass, and I did. I don't think it will ever be the case of women wholesale chasing men, no matter how many men bow out of the dating game. There are just so many alternatives to sex or relationship that can provide as much enjoyment in life and are far less hassle.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I don't think it's about calling the shots. It's about being with a man who desires you and cares enough to come and get you. In the yin yang model of female and male energies, feminine is passive, receptive, cool, and soft, while masculine is active, assertive, hot, and hard. If you think in terms of mating and reproduction, you could think of woman as the earth and man as the farmer. He chooses the plot of land that inspires him to be fertile and productive, plants his seeds, and tends the farm. The earth is receptive and fertile when the farmer prepares the land and tends it well. I feel the best relationships happen when a man is enamored to the point where he does what it takes to secure the affections of his chosen woman and ensures conditions are right for producing a bounty together. The men I click with best have a similar view. I can't get excited about a man who isn't excited about me, and I feel this is perfectly natural. 1
catchthedrift Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Ive noticed more and more as I'm getting older that far fewer men chase women anymore. Many of them expect the woman to do the chasing, and even if she initiates (I've initiated before) it is either poorly reciprocated or not at all. And I'm not talking about stud muffins who have girls all over them, just average guys who in one way or another have shown interest. Whats up? I have indeed noticed this as well when dating younger guys. It is this new generation of men that seems to be very full of themselves. This doesnt even have much to do with gender equality. It's because the youth of today has less values and live different standards, different ideals. Most guys that are my age or a bit older than me seem way more respectful towards me than guys I dated who are in their early 20s. But maybe that's just generalizing, I don't know. Maybe it's a thing of perception. But I surely have experienced this as well, so I see where you are coming from... 1
smackie9 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 It is this new generation of men that seems to be very full of themselves. Guys would say the same thing about young ladies. They are young, and their brains are still immature and developing. It's been like this since the beginning of time. This age group in general, not this generation. 2
Author Hopeful30 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Posted November 9, 2015 It's likely men are growing more tired of having to pursue anymore as to feel they don't want to come off as a stalker as a lot of women are so easily using with when it comes to men pursuing them these days. It's this kind of accusation that have men backing off, especially after a first attempt. I understand, but women face the same stigmas if not more of them. We can't allow that to dictate our lives. Who the hell lives by this? Not me. If a person allows fear of judgment to stop them, then THIS is the issue, not the stigma itself.
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