Lucko Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 It's probably half the fact guys have an easy release at home whenever they want it and half how most of them are raised =/ Be sensitive to all, everyone gets a trophy, no bullying, football causes head injuries, veganism is great, wah wah wah. You basically raise boys in a dress and then you're shocked when they turn out to be feminine. Doesn't have to be extremes.
kenmore Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 My experience with this is when I was looking for someone to date in 2008 on (then called) Yahoo dating. I would spend hours looking at women's profiles, photos, deciding which may work for me and which to just run from, and sending intro messages. I doubt I got more than one response out of the (going from memory) 30 messages? And that response may have been "leave me alone". At the same time, I was receiving messages. I had around seven different women wanting to get to know more about me. I ended up going out with most of them, and during some of those dates, things went very well. Just like my current job of insurance salesman, the difference between people I reach out to and those that reach out to me is night and day! In the dating world of today, unless something works out well with someone you know or someone you meet somewhere, I agree that if the woman doesn't initiate it, they don't seem to be interested. When I say "initiate", I just mean first contact. A man still needs to be a man and move it along. Moving it along is easy though, with the self confidence one gets in a relationship in which the other initiated. Once they say "hey, I'm interested", talking on the phone and email / text to get to know one another is simple. then, after a few volleys, it's time to meet face to face. From there, it's about how well you're clicking and how well you act in front of them. Be confident! Now, moving it along in a longer-term relationship, like maybe someone you see regularly either at work, the gym etc can be MUCH more difficult. There is no clear line of when to start, or even if it would be a huge mistake to! AKA the "old way". That said, the signals are still there, it just takes a gypsy to read them sometimes, and if you take too long, the moment may be lost. Ken
Ruby Slippers Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I like a pretty traditional approach to dating, with the man initiating plans and me being receptive and enthusiastic. I certainly encounter some passive guys in the dating world, but that never goes anywhere because it doesn't turn me on romantically or sexually whatsoever. This has always been the case for me. Most of the men I've had relationships with have specifically told me that they don't like it when the woman approaches and pursues, that it kills their romantic and sexual fire. So I guess I prefer the old-fashioned go-getter type. As always, they're a rare breed, but to me the most attractive. I'm meeting about as many of them as I ever was - not a ton, but a select few. 3
smg15 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Nothing wrong with chasing someone if they are purposely slowing down so you can catch them lol 1
SawtoothMars Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Agree or disagree with military service, one of the benefits of WW2, subsequent drafts, Vietnam, etc. was getting young males out into a a structured world away from home. Learning about discipline, hygiene, other cultures, etc. It's somewhat cliche but boys were turned into men. There are certainly lots of 25 year olds today who are 'men' but many others seem to linger in some limbo state of extended adolescence. Totally disagree! My Grandfather's brother spent most of WW2 chasing hookers. He went on to marry 8 times. One of my uncles spent years in the peace-corp... banging african hookers. I don't think post traumatic stress is what makes a man. These generations of guys became men because they had fathers! Today most boys have step dad who could give a crap or no father at all. How are you going to learn how to be a man when there isn't anyone to teach you. This is one of the things I think OP is noticing.
rocketman122 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I dont get direct moves by women in the real world. but when I shoot weddings, eyes, all the time. I dont pursue though. I dont even radiate that im available. completely professional. im old school when it comes to dating and the reason why im successful OLD is because the women look for a man who knows what chivalry is and knows how to court a women. the younger 20's gen have no clue about dating. the men are wimpy manginas and dont take initative. too much fluff all around. facebook texting to go out. wtf is that? do it like it used to be. man thefeck up. it sets the tone for the rest of the relationship. I will also add that are more and more men who dont give a shet to commit. they casually date and if it doesnt work then they just go to the next without a wink. women have it harder and harder to find a good guy. on OLD I get more enough messages from women. they have the mindset of "Im paying for this and im going to use it. if no guy sends me ill send him and I have nothing to lose" and really bold women too. they add me to their favorites bombard with messages constantly click my profile so theyre first when I come to look at my "who saw my profile" list. I dont mind a woman giving a hint. I love the ones who are direct and to the point. hi my name is X. would like to meet you and telephone. thats simple and classy. 1
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Was feeling lazy last night and commented on this hot girl's picture on Match. Luckily her name was part of the screen name. Me - Vanessa, I had to approach you because your smile and long hair are magnetic! Where was this taken? Her - In Folsom Now usually a short response like this means a woman isn't interested. So I deleted it. Today she emails me asking about my day. As I said before, when a woman reaches out, she wants a man to take action. So I write back "Good, but it'll be even better when you give me your number Vanessa." and I sign my name. Gives it to me instantly without hesitation. Now obviously getting a number doesn't mean anything until you actually get her out on a date with you. But still... When I send a genuine email referencing the profile with a follow up question, most of the time I get nothing. This time around with minimal effort, she chases and gives me her number. That's why women will always be fascinating and strange to me. Edited March 8, 2015 by fitnessfan365 2
smg15 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Was feeling lazy last night and commented on this hot girl's picture on Match. Luckily her name was part of the screen name. Me - Vanessa, I had to approach you because your smile and long hair are magnetic! Where was this taken? Her - In Folsom Now usually a short response like this means a woman isn't interested. So I deleted it. Today she emails me asking about my day. As I said before, when a woman reaches out, she wants a man to take action. So I write back "Good, but it'll be even better when you give me your number Vanessa." and I sign my name. Gives it to me instantly without hesitation. Now obviously getting a number doesn't mean anything until you actually get her out on a date with you. But still... When I send a genuine email referencing the profile with a follow up question, most of the time I get nothing. This time around with minimal effort, she chases and gives me her number. That's why women will always be fascinating and strange to me. From my experience if a woman just answers your question and that's it, she is not interested But if she says......In Folsom, so how are you? She is interested
fitnessfan365 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 From my experience if a woman just answers your question and that's it, she is not interested But if she says......In Folsom, so how are you? She is interested Exactly. Since she didn't say why she was there, or try to start a convo with me, I automatically wrote her off and deleted the email. That's why I was legitimately shocked when she initiated and emailed me today. But a good lesson to learn is not to get sucked into chatting. Some guys may have emailed her back actually making chit chat about the day. Just like some guys engage in texting marathons when a girl texts. Instead, just take action and cut to the F'ing chase. 1
Author Hopeful30 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 I dont think a lack of male role models is the problem. I think its about personality. Some men have amazing fathers and turn out far less "men", while others who grow up fatherless step up. But in all honesty I just think men are more consumed with a fear of rejection than a desire to go after a woman they like. Thats really sad. 1
rocketman122 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I think theres a huge lack of male role mods with kids that single mothers raise. Its not with all but U definitely see it more and more. More effeminate and not masculine by a long shot. Clearly lack that trait. They are very winpy today and confused and dont act like men used to. For the good or bad. 1
LookAtThisPOst Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 It's likely men are growing more tired of having to pursue anymore as to feel they don't want to come off as a stalker as a lot of women are so easily using with when it comes to men pursuing them these days. It's this kind of accusation that have men backing off, especially after a first attempt. Ive noticed more and more as I'm getting older that far fewer men chase women anymore. Many of them expect the woman to do the chasing, and even if she initiates (I've initiated before) it is either poorly reciprocated or not at all. And I'm not talking about stud muffins who have girls all over them, just average guys who in one way or another have shown interest. Whats up?
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 From my experience if a woman just answers your question and that's it, she is not interested But if she says......In Folsom, so how are you? She is interested Yes, but "In Folsom", was good comedy, punch line delivered, whereas "In Folsom, how are you today?" is not good comedy. I think too many are too quick to dismiss over one liners.
NGC1300 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 It's all the man's fault and never the woman's fault. No kidding!!! Because no woman has ever had a smartphone, computer, or spent any time on social media, right??? Poor social skills? Yeah, let's look over the fact that women do not even have to have them!!!! An awkward or shy woman is just "cute", and gets propositioned plenty, whereas the same traits in a man will leave him ridiculed and dead in the water. Always the mans fault. Always.
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Exactly. Since she didn't say why she was there, or try to start a convo with me, I automatically wrote her off and deleted the email. That's why I was legitimately shocked when she initiated and emailed me today. But a good lesson to learn is not to get sucked into chatting. Some guys may have emailed her back actually making chit chat about the day. Just like some guys engage in texting marathons when a girl texts. Instead, just take action and cut to the F'ing chase. Texting marathons with no action taken, leads directly to the friend zone or a fade. 3
NGC1300 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Interesting observation. Especially not having the social skills. Part of this is now second generational. 16 year olds have always been awkward around girls but these days it's often 26 and 36 year olds. Agree or disagree with military service, one of the benefits of WW2, subsequent drafts, Vietnam, etc. was getting young males out into a a structured world away from home. Learning about discipline, hygiene, other cultures, etc. It's somewhat cliche but boys were turned into men. There are certainly lots of 25 year olds today who are 'men' but many others seem to linger in some limbo state of extended adolescence. So this thread began with the subject of less men approaching women these days, and the reason has been identified as fewer of them being drafted to have their heads blown off overseas, and this means they're not men. Ok. It doesn't matter what men do, we will be shamed no matter what. If we pursue the woman we may be labeled creepy, try-hard, or desperate. People will make videos in NYC about "cat calling" and use it to shame men. If we don't pursue them, then we're gay, feminine, beta. There's just no right way for men to act. And then people wonder why we'd rather just withdraw from society. Edited March 8, 2015 by NGC1300
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 In todays world, there is a disconnect. 1) Women are supposed to be more assertive, they are supposed to be equal to men. 2) Women are mostly brought up to be "Princesses" and therefore as such, need to be swept off their feet by a Prince. Cinderella didn't go straight up to Prince Charming and ask for a date; Cinderella made her grand entrance and waited to be asked to dance by the Prince. I think some women adopt the former, but also have the latter in the back of their mind too. They will do the chasing if necessary, but I guess some would probably prefer if a man actually thought they were so awesome, that he would do the asking and the chasing. 1
LookAtThisPOst Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Texting marathons with no action taken, leads directly to the friend zone or a fade. Yeah, I get a kick out of women that say, "I don't like to give out my #, let's talk more on here" I quickly launch those women as they have no genuine interest in meeting in person. 1
katiegrl Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Yeah, I get a kick out of women that say, "I don't like to give out my #, let's talk more on here" I quickly launch those women as they have no genuine interest in meeting in person. Instead of asking for her number, why not "really" cut to the chase and suggest a quick meet up for coffee? 15 minutes and if you click, you make it longer and/or set up a date? The reason I hesitate to give out my number right off the bat is cause many (not all) men abuse the privilege (so to speak). Texting constantly or calling at odd hours. These days you can even locate where someone lives through their cell phone number! Men are fab, but let's face it there are a lot of crazies out there (men AND women), and one can never be too careful. Meet on line, set up a quick coffee to gauge chemistry, and if you get a good vibe and feel comfortable, "then" give them your private info, like a phone number. But I am with you on continuing chat via the site. Just meet for a quick coffee for God's sake. I don't care how long or often you chat/text, you will never be able to gauge the chemistry unless and until you meet IN PERSON. Saves a lot of time! I realize I am in the minority here as most women need to chat a bit before meeting. I can understand that, but having personally experienced becoming very disappointed after meeting guys I had been chatting with for awhile, if I ever became single again and did OLD, I would want to meet sooner (much sooner!) rather than later... 1
ThaWholigan Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I dont think a lack of male role models is the problem. I think its about personality. Some men have amazing fathers and turn out far less "men", while others who grow up fatherless step up. But in all honesty I just think men are more consumed with a fear of rejection than a desire to go after a woman they like. Thats really sad. Why do you think that is?
xxoo Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 As a parent, I haven't noticed a difference among the teen set. The boys are still chasing the girls as much as ever. Maybe men have always chased less as they get older. 3
central Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Chase? No. And I don't chase them. If they're interested in me, they should initiate and make that clear. If we're in a relationship, they need to put in as much effort as I do. Obviously, many women have no trouble initiating or chasing, as evidenced by those who pursue or throw themselves on the rich, the famous, the alpha, or the sexy bad boy. They can do the same with a good man who meets their standards, too.
Author Hopeful30 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 So this thread began with the subject of less men approaching women these days, and the reason has been identified as fewer of them being drafted to have their heads blown off overseas, and this means they're not men. Ok. It doesn't matter what men do, we will be shamed no matter what. If we pursue the woman we may be labeled creepy, try-hard, or desperate. People will make videos in NYC about "cat calling" and use it to shame men. If we don't pursue them, then we're gay, feminine, beta. There's just no right way for men to act. And then people wonder why we'd rather just withdraw from society. Unfortunately thats how the world always was and always will be. Theres a lot of pressure on men to be men, and to be honest I can see why. There are so few masculine, chasing men. As we can see the numbers of these guys is decreasing, so maybe its because now in modern day there is LESS pressure, theres less men are forced to "man up" aka chase, pursue, be sexually aggressive etc. But in my humble opinion, if a man stops pursuing because he doesnt wanna be labeled a "stalker", then hes no man at all. Since when does the opinion of random women matter? If you pursue many women, some of them eill welcome your advances. THATS the woman you want, not the ones who would deem you creepers. 1
NGC1300 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Theres a lot of pressure on men to be men, and to be honest I can see why. There are so few masculine, chasing men. A man has the XY chromosomes, and typically a penis. That is what makes someone male. The rest of the BS about getting your head blown off overseas, needing to chase anything with a vagina, needing to be "alpha", needing to be muscular, needing to be confident, needing to not have emotions, needing to work in coal mine....well, that's just stuff society will use to shame men who don't conform. I mean really, if a man is insecure, does anyone really think that insecurity came about for no reason? Of course not. Insecurity is borne from society projecting they will not be accepted as they are. 3
ThaWholigan Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Unfortunately thats how the world always was and always will be. Theres a lot of pressure on men to be men, and to be honest I can see why. There are so few masculine, chasing men. As we can see the numbers of these guys is decreasing, so maybe its because now in modern day there is LESS pressure, theres less men are forced to "man up" aka chase, pursue, be sexually aggressive etc. But in my humble opinion, if a man stops pursuing because he doesnt wanna be labeled a "stalker", then hes no man at all. Since when does the opinion of random women matter? If you pursue many women, some of them eill welcome your advances. THATS the woman you want, not the ones who would deem you creepers. Curiously, I actually disagree with some of this. The 2nd paragraph, I can get on board with to an extent. Being labelled a creep/stalker is something you can't worry about too much unless your social skills really suck. The 1st? I dunno. This idea of "men being men" and men who aren't aggressive chasers "not being men" is not one I can get behind logically. What it does is force men to fit a paradigm that not all of them can or should fit into. Now, as a man, I have tendencies towards assertiveness and I am naturally a chaser - my reserved nature mitigates that somewhat but its there. However, I understand that it doesn't behoove some guys to try and be that way. It may not work for them as well as someone else, they may experience inner conflict trying to be a certain way that goes against their own nature as individuals. Friction is good, but too much and you will f-ck yourself up trying to fit into a box. The premise of a lot of feminism nowadays was that women didn't have to be just motheres or stay at home wives, and it also meant they could express their masculine energy and take ownership, particularly where their sexuality is concerned - rather than experience sadness at not being able to live their life the way they wish to. So why exactly is it wrong for men to do similar and experience a life outside of what people expect them to do within the traditional paradigm? I'm not saying men should all be passive, but I am saying that it doesn't behoove a man to be something he's not because people think that's what he's supposed to be. 1
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