Lindi Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) I have been with my boyfriend for almost two years. The last two years has been really hard. I am 30 years old and a lawyer. I have given advice to so many clients but cant seem to navigate myself out of this. Probably becuase I feel partially to blame for the state of our relationship. I dont want to fail. And I dont want to be the girl who he hates forever. When I met him I was in a great place. I just ran my first ultra marathon, took up trail running as a hobby, had a great job, lovely house, friends, great relationships with my family and I was positive, had all the confidence in the world and was so happy. He was single for 6 years before that. He was 30, lived with a 20 year old male friend and just spent every weekend in the same bar. In our first weeks together he went behind my back and saw one of my friends (she introduced us to each other). He lied to me about that. He even took her to a work function while I was away one weekend. I found that out months later. I never had trust issues. But becuase of this and similar occurences with three other girls during our relationship I now have. He drinks a lot. I did get him to spend less time at that particular bar, but he still has issues with alcohol. I also started partying a lot (with him) and spent a lot of money on that in the last 2 years. This is out of character for me. Financially, the relationship also took its toll on me. There were three incidents during our relationship in which he hit me. The first time was a slap. The second time he hit me in my face (a few times) and I could not go to work. The third time I got out of his car at night becuase I felt unsafe. He stopped next to the road and slammed my head against his car. I thought he was going to kill me that night. He left me without a car a few times if I drove with him and we had a fight. I was not allowed to spend time with my friends. He told me from the start that his friends are now my friends and that is it. I have lost contact with most of my friends and feel alone without him and his circle. They however never accepted me. Becuase of all our fights and the fact that he is no longer acting like a child all the time I became that girl who changed their buddy. He still goes out with them. Often without me, which I never had an issue with in the past but now makes me feel neglected and rejected. As a result of all our fighting and my emotional state I lost my job. And my house. I am living with him now and found a new job after quite some time. All of this time I managed to still lool after myself financially, but the last month was tough. Causing even more fights. I used to be loved by everyone in my life. Now I have built a life around him and his friends and they all hate me. Becuase they dont know what is going on. He says whatever he wants to them, mostly making me look bad. I want to scream out to them all that I am trying so hard, in my relationship with him and them. I dont know what im doing here. I know I am throwing my life away. I know I am so much better than this. But I cant get myself to leave. Edited March 7, 2015 by Lindi
Arieswoman Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 Lindi, Ask yourself what a smart, intelligent, professional lady is doing with a controlling, abusive drunk - then do something about it. 3
Zahara Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Abuse conditions you to be submissive. It breaks you down until you become a shell of a person. You're now an extension of him. Your self esteem and value is determined by him. You beat a dog down enough and he'll come around you with its tail tucked and sorry eyes trying to gain your favor. That's you. You are that dog to him. That's all you are. Abusers don't love you. The only thing they love is control. You're clinging like he's the last man on earth. And he loves it. There is no "can't leave" because you can. It's a matter of how much you want it. You survived happily before he came into your life, so you know he's not the end all be all. Infact it's indicative of how much better you could be without him. What a great measuring stick. You can choose to trash your life or you can choose to be that strong woman you once were. It's a choice. Edited March 7, 2015 by Zahara 1
Ruby65 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 You can do so much better! You're young, you're smart, you've got everything ahead of you..... A relationship that works doesn't feel this bad after just two years! Stop ignoring your inner alarm system and get out. The only thing holding you back, that I can see, is fear of change. But sometimes you need to shake things up and walk into the unknown if you want to put yourself back on track for good things to happen. 1
Downtown Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 There were three incidents during our relationship in which he hit me. The first time was a slap. The second time he hit me in my face (a few times) and I could not go to work. The third time I got out of his car at night becuase I felt unsafe. He stopped next to the road and slammed my head against his car. I thought he was going to kill me that night. Lindi, , the repeated physical battering of a partner by an adult is strongly associated with that adult having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Intense, inappropriate anger is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. If your BF really is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood -- likely started before age five. You therefore would not have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you would only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD -- and, to a lesser degree, with narcissism (NPD) and sociopathy (ASPD). To be clear, this association does NOT imply your BF has full-blown BPD, NPD, or ASPD. Instead, such physical abuse implies he is at much greater risk of having strong traits of BPD or another PD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD. I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). Similarly, NPD and ASPD also are spectrum disorders. At issue, then, is not whether your BF exhibits BPD traits (or traits of other PDs). Of course he does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD and NPD spectrums). Not having met him, I cannot know whether his BPD and NPD traits are strong and persistent. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about the childish behaviors you are describing -- such as the strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, isolating you away from your friends, and temper tantrums. I dont know what im doing here.... But I cant get myself to leave. Lindi, I join the other respondents in recommending that you leave this abusive man and not look back. Yet, because you're having such difficulty in walking away, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I suspect you may be so emotionally enmeshed with this young man that you are having difficulty distinguishing YOUR problems from HIS problems. Hence, seeing a professional may be very helpful in making it easier for you to build stronger personal boundaries to protect yourself from him. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you read about the warning signs for BPD, NPD, and ASPD (sociopathy) so you know how to spot the warning signs. An easy place to start, with respect to BPD red flags, is my list at 18 Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Lindi. 2
sabd Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Whether or not he presents somewhere significant on the BPD spectrum is up to a professional to diagnose. What is quite obvious though is that he is an abusive drunk and by losing yourself in his world, you have sacrificed your friends, job, house and dignity. You're a smart cookie, you KNOW this is unacceptable and you absolutely CAN LEAVE. THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING YOU FROM LEAVING. Don't let him do this anymore! No-one else can get you out of this revolting situation, only you. And you know you have to. Before you land up in hospital. Before he kills you. PLEASE, don't be his doormat or punchbag anymore. You need to extricate yourself from his clutches and save your own life. You also need to start reconnecting with some old friends who I'm sure will be understanding of this and offer you support. 2
Downtown Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Whether or not he presents somewhere significant on the BPD spectrum is up to a professional to diagnose. Sabd, nobody on this thread has suggested that Lindi attempt to diagnose anyone. You are confusing "spotting warning signs" for "making a diagnosis." There is a world of difference between those two actions. For example, although most adult women know how to identify the warning signs for breast cancer, they don't have sufficient training to diagnose it. Likewise, most men know the warning signs for stroke and heart attack without having a clue as to how those disorders are diagnosed. Similarly, most adults are capable of spotting the warning signs for BPD if they take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. Before Lindi graduated high school, she already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. She could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. She could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And she could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, she will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur if she takes a little time to learn what traits are on the list. There is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, always being "The Victim," and physical abuse.
pie2 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Whether or not he presents somewhere significant on the BPD spectrum is up to a professional to diagnose. What is quite obvious though is that he is an abusive drunk and by losing yourself in his world, you have sacrificed your friends, job, house and dignity. You're a smart cookie, you KNOW this is unacceptable and you absolutely CAN LEAVE. THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING YOU FROM LEAVING. Don't let him do this anymore! No-one else can get you out of this revolting situation, only you. And you know you have to. Before you land up in hospital. Before he kills you. PLEASE, don't be his doormat or punchbag anymore. You need to extricate yourself from his clutches and save your own life. You also need to start reconnecting with some old friends who I'm sure will be understanding of this and offer you support. OP ~ I agree with sabd. Searching out and trying to diagnose your husband seems futile at this point. He doesn't seem like he's the type to pursue therapy, so I doubt he'd be in the situation to be formally evaluated. And you seem like you're completely done with the marriage. So I think it's in your best interest to move on, if what you want is a divorce. Of course, I wish there were some way to reconcile this situation and save your marriage. If only just a formal separation, your husband might wake up and do a 180. But you know him best, and it sounds like you've tried everything you can. Some individual counseling might be helpful for you as you transition into this new stage of life. And again, please don't waste a lot of energy trying to nitpick all of your husband's behaviors. Focus on yourself and your future. God bless.
sabd Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Downtown, I'm not confused in the least. Working out what HIS issues are is not the concern here. Getting her the hell away from him as soon as possible is.
Downtown Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Downtown, ... Working out what HIS issues are is not the concern here. Getting her the hell away from him as soon as possible is.Sabd, everyone on this thread has already agreed with that. That's why I said "Lindi, I join the other respondents in recommending that you leave this abusive man and not look back." Indeed, Lindi herself said in her first post that she knows she deserves better and should leave -- but cannot get herself to do so. Some people in that situation come here seeking only validation. When they hear a dozen members tell them to leave, they find that validation helpful. This is why posts like yours -- i.e., "you need to extricate yourself" -- can be so valuable to many posters. A substantial share of people in that situation, however, are not helped by validation alone. Although they intellectually know that they should leave, they are trapped in toxic relationships by guilt or the mistaken belief that, if they can only figure out what THEY are doing wrong, they can restore the partner to that wonderful human being they saw at the beginning. In those situations -- particularly when the partner is physically abusive as in Lindi's case -- it can be immensely helpful to speak with a professional, and to learn how to spot PD warning signs, so as to get rid of the unnecessary guilt. Moreover, because these folks often are at risk of leaving one abusive partner only to run into the arms of another, it is important for them to protect themselves by learning how to spot the warning signs. Whether this situation applies to Lindi I cannot know. That's why I suggested she simply leave if she can and not look back. And I suggested that, if she is still finding it too difficult to leave, she consult with a professional and learn how to spot some PD warning signs.
sabd Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Moreover, because these folks often are at risk of leaving one abusive partner only to run into the arms of another, it is important for them to protect themselves by learning how to spot the warning signs. 100% agree with this, Downtown. My concern is that people may get so sidetracked and bogged down with trying to "diagnose" their ex's that they forget about themselves and their own healing. The focus must be on self and recovery, not the ex. 2
Downtown Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 100% agree with this, Downtown. My concern is that people may get so sidetracked and bogged down with trying to "diagnose" their ex's that they forget about themselves and their own healing. The focus must be on self and recovery, not the ex.That's a legitimate concern, Sabd, especially for those who are leaving relatively "normal" relationships exhibiting no repeated incidents of physical and emotional abuse. Ideally, they can walk away and "not look back," as I said earlier. Yet, when a woman is struggling to break free from a toxic relationship -- as would occur when she's been dating someone with strong traits of BPD, NPD, or ASPD for two years -- it is common for her to be so utterly confused and so enmeshed with her partner that learning how to spot the warning signs can be a Godsend. By seeing her partner's role in the toxic relationship more clearly, she can -- by subtraction -- quickly begin to see her contribution to the toxicity (i.e., see that she's not been the "fixer" she imagined but, rather, an enabler). Certainly, that was my experience when learning about BPD traits when separating from my BPDer exW. And that's been the self-reported experience of numerous other LoveShack members. As I said above, I cannot know whether this situation applies to Lindi. I do know, however, that academic studies have found a very strong association between physical abuse and the three PDs I mentioned -- with the association being the strongest with BPD. And BPD also is strongly associated with the "crazymaking" effect that makes it so difficult for some abused partners to walk away. Indeed, of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making abused partners so confused that they start to feel like they might be losing their minds. Hence, although I cannot know whether Lindi's BF has strong BPD or NPD traits, there is sufficient risk -- given his repeated physical battering of her -- that I believe it would be well worth an hour of her time to learn the warning signs for those disorders.
Ruby65 Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Certainly, that was my experience when learning about BPD traits when separating from my BPDer exW. And that's been the self-reported experience of numerous other LoveShack members. As I said above, I cannot know whether this situation applies to Lindi. I do know, however, that academic studies have found a very strong association between physical abuse and the three PDs I mentioned -- with the association being the strongest with BPD. And BPD also is strongly associated with the "crazymaking" effect that makes it so difficult for some abused partners to walk away. I can totally understand how once you've had a run-in with a Borderline it becomes so much easier to spot them! I have a Borderline relative, so believe me I know. But I don't think it's helpful to compare a relationship with an ex-WIFE with the OP's comparatively brief relationship with this guy. No one has promised "forever." She doesn't have the same emotional ties or obligations to try to work things out with this guy. Borderline or not -- and I thought most were female? -- this guy is a LOSER. He's bringing her down, anyone from the outside can see that he hasn't enhanced her life but been a negative! Even she can see it. So, frankly who cares if he's a Borderline -- or a Narcissist -- or a Schizophrenic? No diff. He needs to be HISTORY. Just IMO.
Haydn Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Agree, she should try to get out of this. However BPD, RS are very hard to walk away from. (I know) So it may be worth exploring. 1
Ruby65 Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 In my case, being a relative of a Borderline who had no choice but to tolerate a few decades of Borderline behavior, I found it extremely EASY to cut ties! Step one for OP is eliminating this loser from her life..... if she wants to then spend time examining why she was drawn to someone with a possible personality disorder... fine. But really? Borderlines, Narcissists, Psychopaths -- they're all WIRED to pull us in. They're so manipulative. Does the OP really need to waste anymore time figuring out why she was with someone like that? Even just if he's an alcoholic... there's a whole other psychology in place there, with codependency and all that. Most important: take action to free yourself. 1
stillafool Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 I have to wonder why a woman who was in your position (a young lawyer) would chose to be in a relationship (or even give this guy the time of day) with a loser. Why did you chose him instead of the numerous professional men you could have been with? When a man slaps you it is to test you and if you accept the slap it is almost always followed by beatings. You have no children, you have a job and a good education, so why aren't you gone?
gaius Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 It can be really hard to find a guy who makes you feel like a woman nowadays. =/ And there's a lot of women who crave that and get kind of stuck in the feminist you've gotta be equals thing. You don't need a bunch of psychologists and fake labels to figure it out. You just finally found a guy who awoke your primal desires.
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