Linlin Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale the woman repays him in other ways. Just dinner Alpha?
blind_otter Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 If my Dad found out that I was seeing someone who wasn't paying for things, he would go through the roof. I just wrote a paragraph on how equity is not as you guys seem to define it because there are biological differences. Back in the day, men proved themselves fit to reproduce through various ritualized activities. Dating is one of those, but in modern times we tend to deconstruct EVERYTHING. Traditions mean diddly squat. But if you start out paying for yourself, what happens when, say, you reproduce with this bozo and are indisposed for at minimum 6-8 weeks and need him to take care of everything? Dude will bitch. Anyways, different strokes for different folks. I would not be sexually attracted to someone who didn't want to court me to impress me and attract me first and foremost, before I invest anything -- th vag-- into the relationship.
blind_otter Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by sami that sholud be your dad's own problem then. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I happen to love of and respect my father, and his opinion of who I date factors a lot into whether I have a LTR with them. If Dad doesn't like them, I don't like them. Period. Unlike most people, I happen to have a loving and involved father.
sami Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Well, I respectfully disagree. Dads have nothing to do with this I'm sorry
Bronzepen Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale i don't know what kinda women you hang with BRONZEPENCIL but if I did this to the women I date (lawyers, businesswomen, etc....) I'd be laughed out of town!!!! Coffee shop for a 1st date. WTF!!!!! That may fly if you're both poor college students. First, calm down. Don't get your panties all in a wrinkle. Take the wedgie out, you will feel better, trust me. Don't knock something till you try it. I am talking about when you meet someone off the street. Their laughing at you already because you are paying the bill. Why invest time and money on someone that you may not want to date further. Coffee shop is the best and least expensive way to feel out a person. If you don't like her or she doesn't like you see then no big loss. This works for all professionals. At least from my personal experience.
very-confused-girl Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 I come from a small country in Europe where people were brought up still in a very traditional way. Girls, even those ones, who earn a fair bit of money, are still looking for a PROVIDER. For a guy, who is going to take care of them, because that way, he would be able to take care of their potential future family. And girls have absolutely no problems to repay it by other things, like cooking dinners, giving back massages, supporting their man in another way. A guy, that would ask me out and would not pay for me (even after I offered to pay my share), I would never date him again. I kind of semi-expect that the guy is going to pay for me. I offer to pay my share, but I still expect that he is going to take care of it. If not, in my view he is less of a man. Once I am in a commited relationship, I still would want my boyfriend to pay 90 percent of the time, since I dont have such a big income. From time to time I would surprise him nicely by taking him out to a nice dinner, buying him a chocolate etc. and he appreciates it. Obviously I could never keep up with him regarding treating each other. He is taking me on expansive holidays, which is something I am not able to give him back, so I am repaying it by other things. Guys in my country still want to be seen as protectors, therefore even when I go out with my male-friends, in most of the cases, they still pay for me. I dont expect it, I offer to pay for my share, but they feel extremely insaulted that I dared to pull out my purse, since they are GUYS and want to take care of it.
very-confused-girl Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 And yes, when I am dating a guy, my father asks me two things: 1) whether the guy pays for me 2) whether he is picking me from home and driving me back and giving me lifts if I need them - to my father this represents some kind of safety. Once the guy is driving the girl home, it means, that he wants to protect her. And if my father found out that the guy I am dating is not providing the two above, he would go through the roof as well
alphamale Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by Bronzepen Why invest time and money on someone that you may not want to date further. Coffee shop is the best and least expensive way to feel out a person. If you don't like her or she doesn't like you see then no big loss. it also depends on how much money one has, does it not? I have the means and don't mind taking a woman out for a nice dinner date, I actually enjoy trying out new restaurants and fine dining. If I have asked her out and she accepted one must assume there is some minimal level of attraction and a nice dinner date will enhance her attraction to me, a 30 minute date at a coffee shop where the bill comes to $5.75 will not enhance her attraction to me.
Author tanbark813 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter Anyways, different strokes for different folks. I would not be sexually attracted to someone who didn't want to court me to impress me and attract me first and foremost, before I invest anything -- th vag-- into the relationship. So money is the only thing that impresses you? On a side note, I think this is one of the few threads where moimeme and I are in total agreement.
XNemesisX Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 My father does this too. My dad always asks me if the guy paid for dinner, if he picked me up and brought me back home, etc. I once went out with this guy who had me meet him somewhere which saved him about a 15 minute drive instead of picking me up from my apartment. My dad was not pleased about this at all. Ok, so actually he was pretty livid about it. I also love and respect my father and his opinion so I certainly take what my father thinks seriously. If my dad doesn't like him then I DEFINITELY won't And..well, as I have already talked about, I agree with what my dad thinks about this anyway. Oh...and about what someone was saying about how if the man doesn't pay then he doesn't lose anything if there is no connection.... Well I agree with alphamale completely on this. The way I look at it, it's just dinner. It's not a brand new car or a house, or something ridiculously expensive that would seriously break your bank account. It would be pretty frugal to be that concerned over money to think of it as really losing something if there ends up being no connection. I wouldn't want a man who was that weird over money that he would make a big deal out of losing some cash on some dinners.
blind_otter Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 So money is the only thing that impresses you? Nope. Don't know where you got that idea. It's part of the whole courting process. The guy also has to have his own car, NOT live with his parents, have a job with some upward mobility, a desire to better himself...these are indicators of maturity and in the past, men who have not followed these things when courting me usually turned out to be throbbing a**h***s. On edit, thank GOD there are some women out there who have Dads who give a sh*t about their daughters!!
Author tanbark813 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter The guy also has to have his own car, NOT live with his parents, have a job with some upward mobility, a desire to better himself...these are indicators of maturity and in the past, men who have not followed these things when courting me usually turned out to be throbbing a**h***s. Well yeah, but given the age we live in, these things are indicators of maturity for either gender. Guys don't like dating girls that are losers any more than girls like dating guys that are losers.
laRubiaBonita Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 Well yeah, but given the age we live in, these things are indicators of maturity for either gender. Guys don't like dating girls that are losers any more than girls like dating guys that are losers. honestly, i cannot even begin to afford any place to live right now other than my parents home, and i am 26, and i work 2-3 jobs! Most of my friends my age, here, also still ive at home. it is sooo freaking expensive in this area! of course, it still varies on why the individule is living at home still.....but regaurdless he would be buying ne dinner for at least the first 3 dates, unless otherwise discussed.
Author tanbark813 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by laRubiaBonita honestly, i cannot even begin to afford any place to live right now other than my parents home, and i am 26, and i work 2-3 jobs! Most of my friends my age, here, also still ive at home. it is sooo freaking expensive in this area! of course, it still varies on why the individule is living at home still.....but regaurdless he would be buying ne dinner for at least the first 3 dates, unless otherwise discussed. Unless you're in New York, it's cheaper than it is here.
laRubiaBonita Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 nah, it is about the same here as SF, my bf was just staying there.
Author tanbark813 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Posted April 8, 2005 Ok, so let's see if I have this correct: Women want equal pay in the workplace. BUT, if she can't afford her own place it's because it's too expensive. If a guy can't afford his own place, it's because he's immature. Equality in the workplace shouldn't spill over into dating because they're 2 different realms. BUT, women shouldn't be expected to stay in the kitchen and make babies. And for some reason while equality is fine for salaries and marriage, it's not okay in terms of dating. Man, growing up in a house that didn't involve traditional gender roles must have really screwed me up.
blind_otter Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 Well yeah, but given the age we live in, these things are indicators of maturity for either gender. Guys don't like dating girls that are losers any more than girls like dating guys that are losers. Rrrrgh. Communicating with you is like talking to a guy. I didn't say it wasn't, but you said I was only impressed by money and I was simply saying that you are wrong. I have a host of other pre-requisites. For dating. I am a grown woman, I own my car, I have my own house (even though my parents gave it to me 4 years ago, HAAahahah), I have a good job, so it's not like I am dependent. Maybe a bit much on my Mom, she still drops off food and calls me to see how I'm doing and sometimes gives me wakeup calls. But I think that is more of a sadistic joy for her. Oh, it's 6:15AM, let my call my darling daughter and wake her up! And she cooks enough to feed ilke 10 people so what else would she do with that food? That said, I never said I wanted equal pay, either. Unless it is a high risk, demanding job. But I would like to be considered for the same jobs even though I would take maternity leave...it sucks to be in an interview and have a potential employer ask you if you plan to have children, and when you say yes, watch them frown slightly and make a note beside your name on their list. See, you don't know how that feels. That sucks ass, to know you are as good or even better than the people you're competing with for your job, but the person doesn't want to GIVE you a job because they know you will be taking 8-12 weeks off at some nebulous point in the future to suckle a newborn on your teat after squeezing a 7 lbs. baby out of your vag.
alphamale Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 Man, growing up in a house that didn't involve traditional gender roles must have really screwed me up. You were raised by a lesbian couple, right? No just kididng. I was raised in a traditional househhold where my physician father took care off all the financial stuff and my ma (rest her soul) took care of the kids and the household. It worked pretty well and everyone knew there roles and duties and responsibilities. Problem today in amrican society is that many younger males and females don't know what their roles or duties or responsibilities are because of what I call "gender ambiguity". And this is very bad.
Author tanbark813 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale You were raised by a lesbian couple, right? No just kididng. I was raised in a traditional househhold where my physician father took care off all the financial stuff and my ma (rest her soul) took care of the kids and the household. It worked pretty well and everyone knew there roles and duties and responsibilities. Problem today in amrican society is that many younger males and females don't know what their roles or duties or responsibilities are because of what I call "gender ambiguity". And this is very bad. Well my parents both worked. My Dad did most of the cooking and watched cooking shows. My mom handled the bills and spent Sunday afternoons yelling at the 49ers on TV. My parents' marriage was pretty equalized in terms of who did what. I didn't realize until this thread how much that must have affected my perception of dating in general.
blind_otter Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale You were raised by a lesbian couple, right? No just kididng. I was raised in a traditional househhold where my physician father took care off all the financial stuff and my ma (rest her soul) took care of the kids and the household. It worked pretty well and everyone knew there roles and duties and responsibilities. Problem today in amrican society is that many younger males and females don't know what their roles or duties or responsibilities are because of what I call "gender ambiguity". And this is very bad. Funny you say that. My Dad was all old and sh*t when I was born, he was retired by the time I was like 8, so he stayed home and took care of us (his daughters) and my Mom worked (and still does, she craaaazy like dat). As a result I am a weird mix of traditional and non-traditional. I need to work outside the home to stay sane, but conversely I also like to be in relationships with traditional gender roles in place. And I feel more secure when a man acts like he is taking care of me. I want to be taken care of.
Bronzepen Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale it also depends on how much money one has, does it not? I have the means and don't mind taking a woman out for a nice dinner date, I actually enjoy trying out new restaurants and fine dining. That's fine if thats your thing. If I have asked her out and she accepted one must assume there is some minimal level of attraction and a nice dinner date will enhance her attraction to me, a 30 minute date at a coffee shop where the bill comes to $5.75 will not enhance her attraction to me. Of course there's some attraction, the whole point of the 1st date is to see if there is potential to go further. I got news for you, you can't buy love BUT you can buy sex. If you do the math then you will find that it would be cheaper to pay for a hooker. Now if your looking for a more meaningful relationship, meaning, having an emotional connection then all the money in the world cannot buy that. Sure women want to see men as independent and a provider but not on the first date. First date is all about, "Is this someone I want to see again? Yes he has money but he has the personality of a parking meter." Or vice versa, "Yes she has a hot body but she has the personality of a parking meter." Remember, I am talking about emotional connection not just sex. Believe me, money may be nice to flaunt but you will find that it is not a key requirement to have women be attracted to you. Personality, confidence, cocky and funny is all you need. Especially with high powered women like lawyers.
PatientOne Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 You have nothing to apologize for, Tanbark. I have to agree with you all the way here. And Moimeme's theory about maturity is how I've been viewing this whole debate. With a little longer viewpoint, stuff like this seems silly.
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