Zahara Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 People, men specifically, will cheat if it serves some kind of purpose, they have the opportunity, and they believe can get away with it. Not all people/men do because they are missing some aspect of this. In saying this I'm not saying that all men/women are bad, because I don't believe they are. I just think that if a man has a woman, especially a young beautiful woman, completely throwing themselves at them (which in this case, was the case), I'd be hard pressed to find a man who would turn them down. There are exceptions to this, I'm sure, but I find it pretty unlikely. This isn't about generalizing what a man would do, but what your partner did to you. Generalizations and psychoanalysis doesn't change the fact that it was wrong and he had a choice. Regardless of what 100 men would do, he did what he did. I think you're trying to rationalize this so it's acceptable in your mind. So... What do I do? I end a happy relationship to end up with someone else who could easily be in a situation like this down the road? Maybe you think yes, and I respect that, and I envy your ability to believe that this could never happen to you... Heck, it might not... But it's not bc given the right circumstances it couldn't... Or, that it has/is/will happen, but you won't know about it. If your relationship was a healthy and happy one, you wouldn't be where you are today. You said that you aren't afraid of being alone, but your statement in bold is indicative of someone who settles for fear of what's ahead. Maybe you end up with someone who treats you better? I've been cheated on before only to find him still in contact with her. It ended. I wasn't standing for anymore disrespect. I learned my lesson. When you accept being disrespected, you teach people how to treat you. Yes, cheating is a choice, but loving someone unconditionally is also a choice. So is understanding that things are not as black and white as we might want to believe. Love isn't enough. And loving someone unconditionally even at the expense of your own dignity and value is unfortunate. That sort of thinking comes from a place of dependency and weakness -- I translate your words as -- I'll stand for anything just to have something. As another poster mentioned, your justifications of your boyfriend's behavior is yours to own and accept. I don't think anyone can tell you any different. Sometimes people have to learn in their own way, in their own time. Good luck to you. I hope things work out for you.
elaine567 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Yes Elaine. Oh dear. I hope she wasn't his patient If you are employing doctors you are not unintelligent, so why are you lowering your standards to put up with this guy.
Author Begin again Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 Zahara, I wish I could express how much that I agree with you while still disagreeing with you. What you are saying is not wrong... I'm obviously bothered by the whole thing, but it isn't just one way or another. That is all I'm trying to convey. I sometimes reflect on myself and my actions and hate that I'm not more like what everyone feels I should be like. I am who I am though. I blame my mother;-). Just kidding... Kind of... After she and my father got divorced she spent years telling me that she regretted it and that you need to work at relationships and that people make mistakes and you need to forgive and love unconditionally. My mother is a doctor and a very strong woman. So, of course, she was my role model and I believe in her and her values. Once again, I'm not saying it's right, just that this is how I am. You mentioned earlier that it's harder to walk away. I do disagree with that. With the state of relationships today, everyone and their brother walk way. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm also not saying that it's not hard as heck to walk away, but staying when the going gets tough, IMHO, is brutal. Elaine... I think the above answers my perspective on your questions as well. No, she wasn't a patient, she was an employee. I do sometimes hate myself for not conforming to what most people believe exemplifies a strong woman. I am a feminist, after all... And I definitely don't want to make any of us look bad;-)
Author Begin again Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 Also, btw, though I'm telling you this doesn't mean that he knows all of this. He knows I'm a forgiving person, but I feel quite certain he's petrified I will leave him again.
elaine567 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I think there is a big difference between a marriage and contemplating and then regretting divorce, and your situation here. This is a four year off and on romance and a long distance one at that. One in which he proceeded to cheat on you with a girl half his age and no, I do not accept she lured him into it. I guess he pursued her, like many attached older men do. 18 year olds have the pick of young, hot bodies, why go for a man old enough to be her father, unless she was wooed and persuaded to do so. I get empathy, I get standing by your man, but when that man is flouting the rules of normal relationships, then that "loyalty" may be misplaced. “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” - Mark Twain
Author Begin again Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 Elaine... First, thank you for the conversation. Your words of wisdom are not falling on deaf ears. I really do appreciate the advice... Who knows? I might even take some;-) I've read a couple threads on "luring" mm on here. I am 100% behind you that the OW does not traditionally "lure" the mm. I think it's a pretty ridiculous concept... Most of the time. In this particular case, I can say without a doubt it is true. Maybe "luring" isn't the right word, but she definitely threw herself at him. I was her employer... Before my bf was a glint in her eye, HR had to talk to her on two different occasions about making various doctors (and their wives) uncomfortable with her advances. After I left, she was fired for this (and some other) inappropriate behaviors. That being said, I do not think bf was an innocent party in this whole thing... I think he loved the attention and was quite a willing party. Just so you know, the relationship has only off once, and I was just offered a job near him... He has an offer over here, so most likely it won't be long distance for much longer... I like the quote.
katiegrl Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I know I said I was gone...but wanted to come back to say... Begin again, I'm not here to judge your boyfriend for cheating, or you for forgiving. Men do cheat, their spouses do forgive, and life goes on. Hopefully stronger and wiser, lesson learned. What I find troubling (and you should too!) is the fact that he is still choosing, of his own volition, to continue communicating with her! He is still cheating on you! Maybe not physically as she's thousands of miles away, but emotionally? Yes by choosing to maintain contact with her, he is choosing to, once again, cheat on you... This is appalling to me...utterly disrespectful to you AND your relationship.. and shows an utter lack of regard for your feelings and your love for him. And, despite this knowledge, you still choose to stay, loving him, forgiving him, enabling him! You say their contact is via a public forum, Facebook. That you know of! The man is a cheater, he cheated on you physically with another woman...and he is still cheating on you, with the same woman, emotionally... and that's only because she happens to live thousands of miles away. You're kidding yourself if you believe that if they lived closer to each other, they wouldn't be together physically. Sweetie, I am sorry but you're living in never-never land. I hope one day you will wake up from your dream and realize all this cause as it stands now, you are being jerked around six ways to Sunday!
Author Begin again Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 Katie!:-) I do know that she was coming to his area the other week for vacation, she's been super excited about it... But I know that for some reason she didn't come... I can only guess that bf told her he wouldn't see her. Idk, that's totally a guess. But... I suppose that if they lived near each other, I lived where I am and he got upset or lonely or something... Maybe? I really don't think so though... I think that she good and well convinced him that she is a little obsessive. I don't think he has any interest in her... At all. Let me clarify how I know that they are talking... Heck! You might even think they aren't! Up until a few days ago, I was friends with both of them on fb. So... On the sidebar where you can see who's online, every once in a while, they would come up at the same time. One of them would be online for a couple seconds, then the other, back and forth. He is rarely on fb, so the timing seemed a little too perfect to be coincidental. For all I know he was telling her to back off! (I know it's unlikely, but my point is, is that I don't know what it was about).
katiegrl Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Begin again...why don't you ask him? Tell him what you noticed and ask him! I am not getting why you haven't done that. Do you not believe you have the right to ask him? Afraid of what HE might think if you ask him? Afraid he may label you a stalker..or accuse you of not trusting him? Afraid that, assuming he is still in contact with her, he'll just lie about it anyway, so why bother asking? Or afraid of what his answer might be and you'd rather not know...and just wonder? What the hell, at this point you *shouldn't* be trusting him, not 100% anyway... and he should be going out of HIS way to *prove* to you that you should trust him! He cheated on you, remember? You seem to be walking on eggshells with him...afraid to rock the boat. And the fact you don't feel comfortable asking him..indicates to me a bigger and more insidious problem than him cheating on you in the first place! Again I am sorry if I appear like such a downer here, but your relationship sounds so incredibly dysfunctional....it just boggles my mind that you're still there.. Edited February 23, 2015 by katiegrl
LifeandPerseverance Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I read this he was never going to marry me. he cheated on me. and I read that. ...There are no questions to be asked here. Once a cheater, ALWAYS a cheater. Forget this guy, salvage your self respect and realize how much you have to offer someone who's NOT a cheater and move on! 1
Author Begin again Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 Begin again...why don't you ask him? Tell him what you noticed and ask him! I am not getting why you haven't done that. Do you not believe you have the right to ask him? Afraid of what HE might think if you ask him? Afraid he may label you a stalker..or accuse you of not trusting him? Afraid that, assuming he is still in contact with her, he'll just lie about it anyway, so why bother asking? Or afraid of what his answer might be and you'd rather not know...and just wonder? What the hell, at this point you *shouldn't* be trusting him, not 100% anyway... and he should be going out of HIS way to *prove* to you that you should trust him! He cheated on you, remember? You seem to be walking on eggshells with him...afraid to rock the boat. And the fact you don't feel comfortable asking him..indicates to me a bigger and more insidious problem than him cheating on you in the first place! Again I am sorry if I appear like such a downer here, but your relationship sounds so incredibly dysfunctional....it just boggles my mind that you're still there.. Katie, I have asked him... Probably not in the way you are thinking, but... When we first got back together I told him that I needed him to stop talking to her, and if, for some reason they did talk, I wanted him to tell me. He said that that was really easy as he had absolutely no desire to talk to her. Then, I mentioned that they were still facebook friends, and why? He unfriended her that night. Then, most recently, I asked him if he remembered the things that I had requested when we got back together... Then I reiterated them... He said that he didn't talk to her, I just kind of shook my head like I didn't believe him and he did get a little defensive and asked, "you don't trust me?", but I just moved on with the conversation. I guessasked isn't the right word, but I definitely communicated my displeasure. I would say that my primary reason for not coming out and saying anything about what I've seen is that I'm concerned that it's not really proof, and it might not be, but I know in my heart of hearts that it is... Also, I do not have any clue what they are talking about... What I guess? Probably small talk mixed with her asking him medical questions... No matter the circumstances, he can never quite turn off answering those. You probably are right that I should confront him more... Though I have communicated to a certain extent, my default method of handling things is to go silent... He knows this too and whenever I do go silent, he usually starts shaping up on his own. Perseverance... It appears that he is planning on marrying me now...
katiegrl Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Well if you know in your "heart of hearts" that he is still talking to her (and from the evidence you have, I think that is the correct assumption) ...despite his assurances and promises that he would NOT.... then on top of being a cheater, he's a LIAR! I wish you luck... Edited February 23, 2015 by katiegrl
elaine567 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Also, I do not have any clue what they are talking about... What I guess? Probably small talk mixed with her asking him medical questions... No matter the circumstances, he can never quite turn off answering those. I guess there is more to this than "small talk and medical questions" - stop lying to yourself. ...It appears that he is planning on marrying me now... Why is he marrying you? You need to ask that question. I don't know your finances, but make sure you are not going to lose everything by marrying this man. He has shown himself to be a liar. Could he be in debt and you are his ticket to solvency? If you are richer than he is then get a tight pre-nup, do not lay yourself open to any deceit. Are you in fact their ticket to a nice life? You would not be the first woman plotted against by a man and his mistress. Be careful. Well if you know in your "heart of hearts" that he is still talking to her (and from the evidence you have, I think that is the correct assumption) ...despite his assurances and promises that he would NOT.... then on top of being a cheater, he's a LIAR! Yes. Cheaters are always liars, they need to lie to do what they do. He lied to your face before. He also crossed the bridge of sleeping with a very young girl behind your back and you have to acknowledge that she may not be your only threat here. Forget all that nonsense about love and empathy and being "Oh so understanding", protect yourself, before you end up in dire straits. At 35 you are still young, do not feel that this is your last chance. It won't be. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I guess there is more to this than "small talk and medical questions" - stop lying to yourself. Why is he marrying you? You need to ask that question. I don't know your finances, but make sure you are not going to lose everything by marrying this man. He has shown himself to be a liar. Could he be in debt and you are his ticket to solvency? If you are richer than he is then get a tight pre-nup, do not lay yourself open to any deceit. Are you in fact their ticket to a nice life? You would not be the first woman plotted against by a man and his mistress. Be careful. Yes. Cheaters are always liars, they need to lie to do what they do. He lied to your face before. He also crossed the bridge of sleeping with a very young girl behind your back and you have to acknowledge that she may not be your only threat here. Forget all that nonsense about love and empathy and being "Oh so understanding", protect yourself, before you end up in dire straits. At 35 you are still young, do not feel that this is your last chance. It won't be. Read this part a few times OP. He's flat-out lying to you now. What great husband material....
katiegrl Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 You know guys...unfortunately I think all our advice is just falling on deaf ears. It's become pretty obvious at this point that the OP is perfectly aware that he is a cheater, a liar, that he is STILL lying .... as well as still conversing with his little 18 year old tart... but just doesn't care...or rather, it just doesn't matter much to her.. She loves (is addicted to) him, she is to weak to leave, has little to no self-esteem, so will remain in this toxic and dysfunctional situation and living not so happily ever after in never-never land. So so sad....but we tried. 2
kendahke Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Yes, cheating is a choice, but loving someone unconditionally is also a choice. Only one's children are afforded unconditional love. Every one else has conditions applied to their love: no cheating, no beating, no abuse, no stealing, etc. So stop lying to yourself about unconditional love. Loving a cheater "unconditionally" means not loving yourself more do to right by yourself when no one else will. So is understanding that things are not as black and white as we might want to believe. but they are because if they weren't, this thread would not be here and you would just shut up and put up with him and this chick. That ain't what's happening here, now is it? It's your youth that you're squandering behind this dude. Time you will never get back. Think on that when you look at yourself in the mirror. Edited February 23, 2015 by kendahke
katiegrl Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Only one's children are afforded unconditional love. Every one else has conditions applied to their love: no cheating, no beating, no abuse, no stealing, etc. So stop lying to yourself about unconditional love. but they are because if they weren't, this thread would not be here and you would just shut up and put up with him and this chick. That ain't what's happening here, now is it? ^^Re last paragraph... it's unfortunate but yeah I think that's precisely what's happening here! She IS "putting up" with him and this chick ... and clearly intends to continue putting with them too! See my above post...no. 41.
Recommended Posts