norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I am so shaken from ending A and have reevaluated everything. I hate that I initiated D in such a tumultuous frame of mind. stbxh I think was a better man that mm in many ways but still doesnt mean staying married would have been right. I am scared of starting over. I didnt date seriously, married at 19 after knowing each other a year. I know nothing of healthy relationships and needed a counselor to confirm what I felt about my M and I still wonder if I was justified enough in wanting to D. I feel the exact same about him now as when we were married. Maybe I shouldve just gone along in ambivalence to give my kids one home. He wouldve been fine with it. I'm spending more time in IC and being on my own but when Im ready to start dating are there going to be emotionally healthy men available or is everyone a walking bag of issues? Are relationships even worth the effort? I feel so behind the curve. Its enough to make want to go back to the marriage I dont want to go back to.
DKT3 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 When you talk about your marriage in your post you make it sound like you were perfect and all the fault is with your husband, yet your the one who had the affair, your the one who left your kids for a chance to be with a married man. I'm really not trying to be mean here, but you honestly come off has highly selfish and totally self absorbed. In my opinion, which is based on what you've posted, you are a very flawed person looking to push all your issues in life off as someone elses fault. No matter the partner, you will never have a healthy relationship because your not in a healthy place. You haven't ended your marriage, your still deeply in a fog from your affair, you don't have your children and your focus is the dating life? I say this in all honesty in an effort to help. Get your life together. Place your focus in the right places which should be your kids and making a better more stable life for them. And not jumping from marriage to affair to dating random dudes. 4
No Limit Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I'm afraid I'll have to agree with the poster above. You won't be happy in any relationship (until perhaps you come across a player who mastered his game, and they smell the confused type ten miles against the wind). Nonetheless divorce was a good choice. Best way to protect both your STBXH and your children.
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) When you talk about your marriage in your post you make it sound like you were perfect and all the fault is with your husband, yet your the one who had the affair, your the one who left your kids for a chance to be with a married man. I'm really not trying to be mean here, but you honestly come off has highly selfish and totally self absorbed. In my opinion, which is based on what you've posted, you are a very flawed person looking to push all your issues in life off as someone elses fault. No matter the partner, you will never have a healthy relationship because your not in a healthy place. You haven't ended your marriage, your still deeply in a fog from your affair, you don't have your children and your focus is the dating life? I say this in all honesty in an effort to help. Get your life together. Place your focus in the right places which should be your kids and making a better more stable life for them. And not jumping from marriage to affair to dating random dudes. I am in no way focusing on the dating life. I KNOW I am not in a healthy place. Im not dating at all. I am on my own and in counseling and focusing on my kids and work and school. I also have an analytical mind. At this crossroads I am thinking about everything. Past, present, future. One of those thoughts has been what is the point of marriage anyways (both personal and societal)? Thats all I meant: What's the point? I am in that mindset because I didnt leave for a married man specifically (and I didnt leave my kids, thats a judgmental turn of phrase to use toward any divorced parent no matter who initiated or who has primary custody. What if my H left out of anger but I got the kids, would you say left the kids? He knows and we're completely amicable. Its just how the custody arrangement works in our particular circumstances) I left M for a chance to have an intimate relationship, but maybe thats a foolish concept that doesnt exist in real relationships. How would I know? I have no baseline. I KNOW I was not perfect and handled things poorly however my M was undone by two people and a professional pointed out my h has his own deep seated issues, h was not willing to face them and would likely never be able to get to true emotional intimacy and vulnerability. But maybe its selfish and foolish to want intimacy. I'm not with H, I'm not with AP. If I can not want or need a man, and can not care about relationships maybe the best most stable thing is to give kids both parents under one roof as long as we dont fight. Instead of running away from the issues to an A, or fixing the unfixable with H, I should just concede for their sake. H wouldnt care because he can be a stay at home dad and I really wouldnt care if he had girlfriends. Hes been with other women but would move back in if I brought it up. I am not pushing my issues on to anyone else. I am where I am in life because I made choices and am feeling the full force of those repercussions as are my kids. What is better to show my kids? Cooperative parenting in house, cooperative parenting apart, intimate relationship with anyone even if its not their dad, no intimate relationship at all? If you cant have healthy loving marriage with the other parent, whats the second best? I went off topic a little bit, but LS is a place to share inner thoughts and get support/feedback. Maybe sometimes theyre selfish thoughts. Edited February 21, 2015 by norudder
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 I'm afraid I'll have to agree with the poster above. You won't be happy in any relationship (until perhaps you come across a player who mastered his game, and they smell the confused type ten miles against the wind). Nonetheless divorce was a good choice. Best way to protect both your STBXH and your children. Please dont assume that just because I had an affair he needs protecting.
DKT3 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I am in no way focusing on the dating life. I KNOW I am not in a healthy place. Im not dating at all. I am on my own and in counseling and focusing on my kids and work and school. I also have an analytical mind. At this crossroads I am thinking about everything. Past, present, future. One of those thoughts has been what is the point of marriage anyways (both personal and societal)? Thats all I meant: What's the point? I am in that mindset because I didnt leave for a married man specifically (and I didnt leave my kids, thats a judgmental turn of phrase to use toward any divorced parent. If a wife cheats but her H divorces and she gets custody, do you tell the H he left his kids? is that any better? Its how the custody arrangement works in our particular circumstances) I left for a chance to have an intimate relationship, but maybe thats a foolish concept that doesnt exist in real relationships. How would I know? I have no baseline. I KNOW I was not perfect and handled things poorly however my M was undone by two people and a professional pointed out my h has his own deep seated issues, h was not willing to face them and would likely never be able to get to true emotional intimacy and vulnerability. But maybe its selfish and foolish to want intimacy. I'm not with H, I'm not with AP. If I can not want or need a man, and can not care about relationships maybe the best most stable thing is to give kids both parents under one roof as long as we dont fight. Instead of running away from the issues to an A, or fixing the unfixable with H, I should just concede for their sake. H wouldnt care because he can be a stay at home dad and I really wouldnt care if he had girlfriends. Hes been with other women but would move back in if I brought it up. I am not pushing my issues on to anyone else. I am where I am in life because I made choices and am feeling the full force of those repercussions as are my kids. We all have to concede something in a relationship, its what compromise is, right? Your husband, I'm guessing is pretty much the same man he was when you met and fell in love with him. So what changed? YOU. I'm not saying your wrong, hell you were young and at 20 your no where near the person you are today. At the same time you can't fault him for being the guy you fell in love with. As much as you may not want to admit it, AP changed you, it changed how you veiw your husband and marriage. You are too close to see the changes yourself. As you distance from the A and the AP it will become clear. Also as you may not want to admit, you did leave your family for a chance to be with MM. I believe this is why your so confused. You believed he would follow suit and walk out on his family as well. Once he didnt/won't, NOW enter thoughts of returning home. Had MM left and you were together would going home honestly be on your mind? Doubtful. Listen, what you do over the next 12 to 14 years (I believe you said kids are 6 and 4) will set the stage for your childrens adult life. Is this the example you would like to leave for them? How do you know your husband won't change? If you read the infidelity side you will find that betrayed husbands change a great deal. I feel I'm an example of that. I changed careers, friends, my whole way of life because it dawned on me that I was a poor example of what a husband and father should be. At the end of the day who would you want to be defined? As a woman who ran out on her kids for a chance with a married man? Or a woman who put the needs of her kids in front of her desires? We all know the anwser. Now how do you get there? Resolve your marriage one way or the other. You can't do that as long as your focus is MM or dating. If its staying then commit 100%. If not then make as clean a break as you can focus on your kids and getting yourself healthy. Then when the time comes and the right man is there start a relationship. Be honest and strong, no matter what happens in the relationship department you will set a fine example for your kids.
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 We all have to concede something in a relationship, its what compromise is, right? Your husband, I'm guessing is pretty much the same man he was when you met and fell in love with him. So what changed? YOU. I'm not saying your wrong, hell you were young and at 20 your no where near the person you are today. At the same time you can't fault him for being the guy you fell in love with. As much as you may not want to admit it, AP changed you, it changed how you veiw your husband and marriage. You are too close to see the changes yourself. As you distance from the A and the AP it will become clear. Also as you may not want to admit, you did leave your family for a chance to be with MM. I believe this is why your so confused. You believed he would follow suit and walk out on his family as well. Once he didnt/won't, NOW enter thoughts of returning home. Had MM left and you were together would going home honestly be on your mind? Doubtful. Listen, what you do over the next 12 to 14 years (I believe you said kids are 6 and 4) will set the stage for your childrens adult life. Is this the example you would like to leave for them? How do you know your husband won't change? If you read the infidelity side you will find that betrayed husbands change a great deal. I feel I'm an example of that. I changed careers, friends, my whole way of life because it dawned on me that I was a poor example of what a husband and father should be. At the end of the day who would you want to be defined? As a woman who ran out on her kids for a chance with a married man? Or a woman who put the needs of her kids in front of her desires? We all know the anwser. Now how do you get there? Resolve your marriage one way or the other. You can't do that as long as your focus is MM or dating. If its staying then commit 100%. If not then make as clean a break as you can focus on your kids and getting yourself healthy. Then when the time comes and the right man is there start a relationship. Be honest and strong, no matter what happens in the relationship department you will set a fine example for your kids. Thank you for your thoughtful response. I see the pros and cons to LS. I want to set the example for my girls to be strong and stand up for themselves. If I put my kids before my desires (what apparently 'we all know' is the right thing according to you but not my counselor) that is showing them the way my husband communicates is acceptable and that they should neglect their needs in their relationships. Kids will do as they see right? Do I raise my girls to be doormats? If not, that means either lots of conflict in my M or sticking to D. I didnt fall in love with my H. (I know all about rewriting history. I have emails from the beginning of our relationship expressing my doubts and our discussing love vs compatibility marriages and I broke of our engagement once). I did change. He knows this. He doesnt want to change. So why should I think he will? You are correct in saying that Im only thinking of staying M because I facing the reality of being alone. But that is why I got M in the first place. Circular behavior on my part. And of course the A did influence who I am now. I have to begrudgingly admit I am different in many good ways too.
DKT3 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Thank you for your thoughtful response. I see the pros and cons to LS. I want to set the example for my girls to be strong and stand up for themselves. If I put my kids before my desires (what apparently 'we all know' is the right thing according to you but not my counselor) that is showing them the way my husband communicates is acceptable and that they should neglect their needs in their relationships. Kids will do as they see right? Do I raise my girls to be doormats? If not, that means either lots of conflict in my M or sticking to D. I didnt fall in love with my H. (I know all about rewriting history. I have emails from the beginning of our relationship expressing my doubts and our discussing love vs compatibility marriages and I broke of our engagement once). I did change. He knows this. He doesnt want to change. So why should I think he will? You are correct in saying that Im only thinking of staying M because I facing the reality of being alone. But that is why I got M in the first place. Circular behavior on my part. And of course the A did influence who I am now. I have to begrudgingly admit I am different in many good ways too. I'm not at all saying staying in your marriage is what's best for your girls. However, I think everyone will agree running off and leaving them with a man you don't deem as good enough for you to love, to chance a MM is good for them. You can't have it both ways, you can't say you won't teach them to be doormats then leave them for man. What does that teach them? Any therapist that suggests chasing desires and leaving your kids behind to do so should be banned. One last thing, if you never loved your husband, how do you expect him to love you? From what you've just said I can understand why he is the way you say he is.
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 I'm not at all saying staying in your marriage is what's best for your girls. However, I think everyone will agree running off and leaving them with a man you don't deem as good enough for you to love, to chance a MM is good for them. You can't have it both ways, you can't say you won't teach them to be doormats then leave them for man. What does that teach them? Any therapist that suggests chasing desires and leaving your kids behind to do so should be banned. One last thing, if you never loved your husband, how do you expect him to love you? From what you've just said I can understand why he is the way you say he is. You can be a good father and not a good husband. And in time, I think my relationship with the kids will be very different from his relationship with them. Also, he's going to have to work eventually and I'm working on finding a house closer so that my time with them will increase significantly. My therapist didnt advocate chasing desires. He is christian but doesnt counsel from a point of morality but rather psychological health and the consequences of not living authentically, making choices out of fear/guilt/etc. Also, do you believe love is quid pro quo? I think relationship behaviors can be, and those behaviors are generated from a place of love. But you cant expect someone to feel something in return for your own feelings (a realization thats helping me get over mm). During my M I tried the "do the actions and the feelings will follow". It didnt work for me. My H felt loved though and it made me happy to do it. I asked (off and on throughout M, before A) if he could change his behaviors even if it was unnatural to him, to go through the motions, to inspire me feeling more loved. And he said it would be insincere, I should just accept 'knowing' he loves me and learn the way he expresses it so to speak.
Hardgrind Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 norudder, You ask: "...are there going to be emotionally healthy men available or is everyone a walking bag of issues? " Speaking as a man, Yes and Yes. There are healthy men out there and they are going to have issues. The two are not mutually exclusive. Don't expect to find a perfect men out there. You may find men who think they are perfect , but they are not the emotionally available and healthy ones. Narcissism isn't healthy. Any man with any real world experiences is going to have his share of scars and issues. There is a good chance you are going to run into the same problems in future relationships as you are having in your current marriage. So something to consider is whether you want to learn to deal with them in your current marriage (doesn't necessarily mean not divorcing) or wait to your next relationship to learn how to deal with them. I am not picking on you. It's something everyone has to deal with. 2
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 norudder, You ask: "...are there going to be emotionally healthy men available or is everyone a walking bag of issues? " Speaking as a man, Yes and Yes. There are healthy men out there and they are going to have issues. The two are not mutually exclusive. Don't expect to find a perfect men out there. You may find men who think they are perfect , but they are not the emotionally available and healthy ones. Narcissism isn't healthy. Any man with any real world experiences is going to have his share of scars and issues. There is a good chance you are going to run into the same problems in future relationships as you are having in your current marriage. So something to consider is whether you want to learn to deal with them in your current marriage (doesn't necessarily mean not divorcing) or wait to your next relationship to learn how to deal with them. I am not picking on you. It's something everyone has to deal with. Thanks for your thoughts. My H is passive aggressive and MM was narcissistic. Maybe if i had been madly in love with H i wouldve overlooked the PA as i overlooked issues in mm. I have discussed in therapy methods of dealing with h's issues but its really finding just me finding coping mechanisms rather than actually having s better M. I will say that learning to recognize when he's being pa or blame shifting has made it easier to coparent and my self esteem is getting better not taking his comments so personally (a good skill to have as my new boss is very PA). I would rather know the signs and avoid these particular issues in another partner.
DKT3 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I don't think my posting is helping you, so I will end my replies on your threads wiith this. You have a long way to go, if you really look at your life as you've posted it here objectively you would find you are a very selfish woman. Every decision you've made according to what you've posted has been for you and your benefit alone. 1) you married a man you didn't love (only you benefit) 2) you asked him to change of that YOU might fall in love with him. 3) you started an affair with a MM because YOU had a void 4) you left you husband and kids so that YOU could be happy with MM 5) you wanted MM to leave his family so YOU could have him 6) you ponder going back to a man you don't love so YOU don't have to be alone. Which one of those decision had benefit for anyone other then yourself? I will excuse myself now. I wish you luck, I hope it all works out. 1
CrystalShine2011 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I don't agree with the first couple of reply's to your post: because you actually posted something that was very difficult for you, I bet you weren't looking for rude and judgmental comments. You already know that what happened was a mistake. I want to say that it will be OKAY. Everyone makes mistakes, and yet somehow everyone likes to judge those who make different ones. My advice would be to do some searching on what really makes you happy. Surround yourself with positive people, and please don't be discouraged from posting again on this forum.
jbrent890 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I don't agree with the first couple of reply's to your post: because you actually posted something that was very difficult for you, I bet you weren't looking for rude and judgmental comments. You already know that what happened was a mistake. I want to say that it will be OKAY. Everyone makes mistakes, and yet somehow everyone likes to judge those who make different ones. My advice would be to do some searching on what really makes you happy. Surround yourself with positive people, and please don't be discouraged from posting again on this forum. This is an open forum where people will post there perspective on an issue. If you think that people should only post things that the OP wants to hear, then maybe should just encourage thread starters to either go and/or stick to to therapy, because that's where they can go if they want to hear those type of things. I'm not trying to be mean, but that's what I'm taking away from your comment. None the less, I agree with DKT and No Limit. Her affair and leaving her husband is so common. She married a man she didn't really love hoping that he would change. He didnt, so instead of simply divorcing, she decided to trade up. She left hoping the AP would leave. Little did she know, it was never about love for the AP. It was sex on the side, no more no less. Now here it is she is alone and her AP is back with his family making vacation plans without a care in the world like nothing happened. Sound familiar? I hope it does because it happens time and time again. Now she is entertaining the idea of going back because she doesn't want to be alone. Guess what? That happens a lot too. Some even beg their BS to take them back. 1
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 This is an open forum where people will post there perspective on an issue. If you think that people should only post things that the OP wants to hear, then maybe should just encourage thread starters to either go and/or stick to to therapy, because that's where they can go if they want to hear those type of things. I'm not trying to be mean, but that's what I'm taking away from your comment. None the less, I agree with DKT and No Limit. Her affair and leaving her husband is so common. She married a man she didn't really love hoping that he would change. He didnt, so instead of simply divorcing, she decided to trade up. She left hoping the AP would leave. Little did she know, it was never about love for the AP. It was sex on the side, no more no less. Now here it is she is alone and her AP is back with his family making vacation plans without a care in the world like nothing happened. Sound familiar? I hope it does because it happens time and time again. Now she is entertaining the idea of going back because she doesn't want to be alone. Guess what? That happens a lot too. Some even beg their BS to take them back. A therapist shouldn't just tell you what you want to hear. Mine doesn't. Every one is entitled to their opinions on a posted situation and I am willingly opening myself to judgement and criticism as well as support. Please don't turn on each other for posting one way or the other. I realize my situation turned out to be one giant cliché. It does not minimize the pain I'm in. I realize I brought it on myself does that mean I'm not allowed to hurt as I try to do right moving forward? I'm sorry I don't have it all figured out like some. Its human to want to avoid pain. I made a mistake when I was young. I didn't fix it the right way. Do I spend the rest of my life in penance? I am TRYING to be a better person.
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 I don't think my posting is helping you, so I will end my replies on your threads wiith this. You have a long way to go, if you really look at your life as you've posted it here objectively you would find you are a very selfish woman. Every decision you've made according to what you've posted has been for you and your benefit alone. 1) you married a man you didn't love (only you benefit) 2) you asked him to change of that YOU might fall in love with him. 3) you started an affair with a MM because YOU had a void 4) you left you husband and kids so that YOU could be happy with MM 5) you wanted MM to leave his family so YOU could have him 6) you ponder going back to a man you don't love so YOU don't have to be alone. Which one of those decision had benefit for anyone other then yourself? I will excuse myself now. I wish you luck, I hope it all works out. #1 shouldn't have happened. I am not the only one who benefitted though. #2 you said you made changes for your M. That's why anyone goes to counseling because something isn't working and needs to change. All the advice on these boards is to fix what you've got before divorcing. How was it selfish to try doing that? Granted that's where the events should have changed and a divorce happened. It almost did the first time we went to mc but h asked me to stay. I didn't want to be SELFISH. To what extent does a person ignore their needs for another?' Don't rely on a spouse to make you happy or fill your needs', I don't need him to make me happy but having him make fun of me can certainly make me unhappy. Its not all black and white. Thank you for contributing. You may think I've gotten nothing but that's not true. Ill be considering your points.
Author norudder Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 I don't agree with the first couple of reply's to your post: because you actually posted something that was very difficult for you, I bet you weren't looking for rude and judgmental comments. You already know that what happened was a mistake. I want to say that it will be OKAY. Everyone makes mistakes, and yet somehow everyone likes to judge those who make different ones. My advice would be to do some searching on what really makes you happy. Surround yourself with positive people, and please don't be discouraged from posting again on this forum. Thank you. Yes this is very difficult. I know I've made mistakes. I am trying to find my right direction forward. I do not have much support close by in friends or family and was hoping to get some understating or encouragement or connection or something from others who mayve had similar journeys. Thank you for taking the time to add your voice.
sandylee1 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I am so shaken from ending A and have reevaluated everything. I hate that I initiated D in such a tumultuous frame of mind. stbxh I think was a better man that mm in many ways but still doesnt mean staying married would have been right. I am scared of starting over. I didnt date seriously, married at 19 after knowing each other a year. I know nothing of healthy relationships and needed a counselor to confirm what I felt about my M and I still wonder if I was justified enough in wanting to D. I feel the exact same about him now as when we were married. Maybe I shouldve just gone along in ambivalence to give my kids one home. He wouldve been fine with it. I'm spending more time in IC and being on my own but when Im ready to start dating are there going to be emotionally healthy men available or is everyone a walking bag of issues? Are relationships even worth the effort? I feel so behind the curve. Its enough to make want to go back to the marriage I dont want to go back to. OP You are in a very emotional place right now. I really think marrying young adds a lot of extra stuff to work through in a marriage. I know many will say it worked for them. The thing is we change a lot through life and I'm sure from 19/20 years old, you are very different Get yourself in a healthy place and be the best you can be for your kids. Sometimes it really doesn't take counselling to know why you had an affair. You may well need counselling now to work through things though. There is a future and once you are in a good place, you'll be able to have a fulfilling relationship.
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