AP's are to blame for A too

[MissBee]

i am quoting this, but it is a theme throughout this thread.

 

using that logic then the BS must take some responsibility for not tending the M.

 

Everyone can only take responsibility for their part and all parts aren't the same or equal.

 

If cheating was as a result of a wholesale marital degradation where both BS and WS are at fault, then of course the BS has to take responsibility for his/her part in the marital collapse, but not the choice of the affair though.

 

Similarly, an OW has to take responsibility for the choice to help someone else cheat and be in the A but isn't responsible for the marital collapse, the WS is.

Edited February 19, 2015 by MissBee

[Got it]

Play with fire and your bound to get burned. There is a post in OM/OW where the OW is complaining about being stalked by the BS. I think if that is all she gets she should feel lucky. I personally just think divorce is the best option. Sure you can chase them down and harm them in some way shape or form but really what will that change. Your in the mess because your spouse cheated on you. Where this changes in my mind is if they decide they want to come rub it in my face or come to my home. Then all bets are off and they should have got out when things were going good.

 

Clay

 

Okay. And the BS is responsible for their actions and . . . let's say any laws they are breaking.

[BetrayedH]

Okay. And the BS is responsible for their actions and . . . let's say any laws they are breaking.

 

The law would agree with you on that one.

 

Personally, I wish there were more laws on the books about the consequences of infidelity for the APs. I find it amazing that I can sue over a trivial breach of contract (with say an auto repair shop) but I can hardly do anything about an egregious breach of a lifelong marital contract that affects children.

 

I know that these things are messy and that the courts/states don't want to do it but I think it's a dereliction of their duties to shrug it off. No one said justice would be easy.

 

If this was done, perhaps BSs wouldn't feel so motivated to respond with other measures.

[Selfish]

The law would agree with you on that one.

 

Personally, I wish there were more laws on the books about the consequences of infidelity for the APs. I find it amazing that I can sue over a trivial breach of contract (with say an auto repair shop) but I can hardly do anything about an egregious breach of a lifelong marital contract that affects children.

 

I know that these things are messy and that the courts/states don't want to do it but I think it's a dereliction of their duties to shrug it off. No one said justice would be easy.

 

If this was done, perhaps BSs wouldn't feel so motivated to respond with other measures.

 

That last statement is nothing more than blame shifting.

 

I believe that suing in the USA is rediculous and overboard. I also believe there are more than enough laws in place as is. I do not think we need more policing. Nor do I believe infidelity should be illegal.

 

However, i do think if a WS is caught cheating and it is current then that should be considered in the dividing of the assests (not in the custody).

[JohnAdams]

In some states, you can still sue for alienation of affection. This law is seldeom used. Per wiki:

 

"At common law, alienation of affections is a common law tort, abolished in many jurisdictions. Where it still exists, an action is brought by a deserted spouse against a third party alleged to be responsible for the failure of the marriage. The defendant in an alienation of affections suit is typically an adulterous spouse's lover, although family members, counselors and therapists or clergy members who have advised a spouse to seek divorce have also been sued for alienation of affections."

[BetrayedH]

That last statement is nothing more than blame shifting.

 

I believe that suing in the USA is rediculous and overboard. I also believe there are more than enough laws in place as is. I do not think we need more policing. Nor do I believe infidelity should be illegal.

 

However, i do think if a WS is caught cheating and it is current then that should be considered in the dividing of the assests (not in the custody).

 

I would be fine with some other form of compensation (for lack of a better term) for a major breach of contract if it helped avoid another lawsuit. There should be more of a penalty than what exists today which is primarily...nothing.

 

I invested 18 years into our contract (those would be the better years of my life) only to see that investment totally screwed by my partner. There should be a consequence.

[BetrayedH]

In some states, you can still sue for alienation of affection. This law is seldeom used. Per wiki:

 

"At common law, alienation of affections is a common law tort, abolished in many jurisdictions. Where it still exists, an action is brought by a deserted spouse against a third party alleged to be responsible for the failure of the marriage. The defendant in an alienation of affections suit is typically an adulterous spouse's lover, although family members, counselors and therapists or clergy members who have advised a spouse to seek divorce have also been sued for alienation of affections."

 

The problem is that it's been abolished in so many jurisdictions and is seen as a waste of time in those where it exists. My atty advised me that I'd spend more pursuing it than I'd possibly get from it. Lovely.

 

A betrayed spouse instead has to fight for his chance at 50/50 (and at great expense). And god forbid that the betrayed spouse was also the breadwinner; they get screwed for that, too. Do the courts wanna hear the details? Nah. That'd be too much trouble.

[dichotomy]

Without a long back story. My WS (then single and between marriages) had a PA with two MM. She basically continued with one of these MM as a downshifted EA into our relationship. She could not let go of one of the one main OM/MM.

 

Anyway....

 

After this all came out shortly after our wedding, I was both hurt at her continued hidden EA with OM/MM, and her seeming lack of regret for this - AND for her lack of regret over having been the mistress of two married men. She REFUSED to express any regret while single - being involved with the downfall of two marriages. One had kids in it. She refused to even say she was committing adultery as she was not married. Basically she pushed it ALL off on the MM - saying it was their choice and their marriage. You know the common statements....."It was his choice, his vows, not mine, his marriage was failing anyway, they had not had sex in years, ...." yada yada yada.

 

I was deeply hurt and angry. Who had I married ? We fought as much over her EA on me and lies - as much as her lack of accountability about her PA roles before she even met me.

 

It was not until I got us to our first female marriage therapist - when she started in to her usual statements with "I did not commit adultery I was single, I was not doing anything wrong" that the female therapist gave her a look of shock...that my wife finally broke down and accepted her actions.

 

Now secondarily - that OM/MM kept trying to up-shift their EA back to a PA after I was involved with her and later married. Her E-AP the other man was responsible since she was now engaged and later married to me. He has a part in this. My wife seem annoyed that he would try - but I understand his view "hey you did not respect my marriage - why would I (or you) respect yours?"

 

APs are responsible. We can argue over the % responsible, but its all an affair and my view is we are just arguing over the roles in the crime. Some one mentioned the get away driver which is a good analogy. I think it also like giving someone who is angry - a baseball bat.

Edited February 20, 2015 by dichotomy

[2.50 a gallon]

Shortly after the breakup of my marriage, I found that MW were a great source non commitment sex. I could care less what their husbands thought as to who was to blame. In fact if one was to point fingers, in each and every case, it was the BS's short comings that led to me banging their wives.

[Shepp]

Well I just want to state that unless you are an OW or OM who did not know your partner was married, you are partially to blame for someone else's marriage, life, and family to fall apart.

 

 

Partly responsible for the affair yeah - in the sense you require two people to make a relationship! But to blame for nothing (unless they had some connection to the spouse/spouses family/whatever) they never made any promise to protect the spouse, create a family/home with the spouse, grow old with the spouse, support the spouse, not betray the spouse etc etc etc

The affair requires two people but every single inch of the betrayal lands at the cheaters door!

 

 

It makes me question your character, morals and judgement if you allow someone to cheat or someone else with you sure.

But it is not the AP's responsibility to protect the cheaters spouse/family/life, that's something only the cheater promised and only the cheater is responsible for his or her failure to deliver on their word.

 

 

If you cheat. You cheat. There is no possible action by anyone else on the planet that could make them share responsibility. Your action (or reaction) is your own! To choose, to make, to live with.

 

 

That's the way I see it!

[BetrayedH]

In fact if one was to point fingers, in each and every case, it was the BS's short comings that led to me banging their wives.

 

Good grief, dude. I'm sure my wife's OM told himself the same thing. I hope your view has matured since then.

[TrustedthenBusted]

In fact if one was to point fingers, in each and every case, it was the BS's short comings that led to me banging their wives.

 

And it was the OM's character shortcomings that lead to me banging his head against the sidewalk.

[Furious]

I could be an ow any time, it's very easy if you just think of yourself. Just as easy, I could have been a WS anytime if I just thought of myself.

 

The "blame" argument distracts from the core issue of "character".

 

In a way I respect those that are honest enough to say they don't care about being a part of infidelity if they are getting what they want. It's brutally honest to admit this.

 

The reality is, plenty of people do not share the same moral values that many other people have. It's disheartening to say the least, sad really, but it is what it is.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Furious
Correction

[Sub]

Shortly after the breakup of my marriage, I found that MW were a great source non commitment sex. I could care less what their husbands thought as to who was to blame. In fact if one was to point fingers, in each and every case, it was the BS's short comings that led to me banging their wives.

 

Yeah, but wasn't your case an exception, as you partially held the BH's responsible for your WW's cheating?

[Selfish]

A simple answer to the title of the topic would be yes. Without an AP there is no affair. No if and or buts around it.

[Quiet Storm]

A simple answer to the title of the topic would be yes. Without an AP there is no affair. No if and or buts around it.

 

So true. If every AP said "no", affairs would not exist.

 

And if every married person was faithful, affairs would not exist.

 

Both are responsible for their own choices.

[Selfish]

So true. If every AP said "no", affairs would not exist.

 

And if every married person was faithful, affairs would not exist.

 

Both are responsible for their own choices.

 

I have been heavily involved in safety and one thing we learn is of course what you need for a fire. You cannot have one if you remove one of the needed elements. That is also how you extinguish one. And affairs are the same. You cannot have one without the AP, BS, WS. So if a a ws doesnt want to have one they either need to remove the BS or the AP. To put out an affair so to speak the BS either removes themselves or the WS removes the AP. If an AP or potential ap does not want to be a part of the triangle and therefore not responsible for it occuring they have to remove themselves from the situation or choose to stick with single men.

[2.50 a gallon]

My ExW was total fold out material. She graduated from college, and was immediately hired by a Fortune 100 company who moved us a couple of states away. This was 30 plus years ago. She was the first woman to work in her field at that company. Being extremely attractive, I found that almost immediately I was facing a small army of OM's. There was nothing I could do or say, that one of her work mates, would find a way to put a negative spin on it.

I did not do as TtB suggested and bang the OM's heads against the sidewalk, instead I seduced and banged three of their wives. They broke up my marriage and I returned the favor.

Another was a co-worker. They had held off on having kids until they were financially ready. With their 5th wedding anniversary coming up they made reservations at a B&B for the weekend. Her hope was to conceive on the night of their anniversary. A Saturday. On Thursday her H informed her that instead of going with her to the B&B the next evening after work. He was driving with a friend to Reno to watch a poker tournament. She showed at the club were my fellow co-worker used to go to every other Saturday, dressed in a new bright red short dress, that showed everything. She informed me she was going to get laid that night. I was her first choice. And if not me she was going to hook up with a stranger.

Yes in each and every case, the OM had a hand in setting up the conditions that brought them to my bed.

The really scary part of this was that I found Married women to be easy to seduce, far more easier than single or divorced women. And to be honest, we men when cheated on like to rub the "forsaking all others" marriage vow in their face. And seem to forget another vow of "Loving and cherishing" her. That more than anything led them down the path to my bedroom

[BetrayedH]

My ExW was total fold out material. She graduated from college, and was immediately hired by a Fortune 100 company who moved us a couple of states away. This was 30 plus years ago. She was the first woman to work in her field at that company. Being extremely attractive, I found that almost immediately I was facing a small army of OM's. There was nothing I could do or say, that one of her work mates, would find a way to put a negative spin on it.

I did not do as TtB suggested and bang the OM's heads against the sidewalk, instead I seduced and banged three of their wives. They broke up my marriage and I returned the favor.

Another was a co-worker. They had held off on having kids until they were financially ready. With their 5th wedding anniversary coming up they made reservations at a B&B for the weekend. Her hope was to conceive on the night of their anniversary. A Saturday. On Thursday her H informed her that instead of going with her to the B&B the next evening after work. He was driving with a friend to Reno to watch a poker tournament. She showed at the club were my fellow co-worker used to go to every other Saturday, dressed in a new bright red short dress, that showed everything. She informed me she was going to get laid that night. I was her first choice. And if not me she was going to hook up with a stranger.

Yes in each and every case, the OM had a hand in setting up the conditions that brought them to my bed.

The really scary part of this was that I found Married women to be easy to seduce, far more easier than single or divorced women. And to be honest, we men when cheated on like to rub the "forsaking all others" marriage vow in their face. And seem to forget another vow of "Loving and cherishing" her. That more than anything led them down the path to my bedroom

 

Interesting that when your wife cheated ON you, it's that the other men just put a negative spin on everything you'd say or do. But when your affair partners cheated on their husbands WITH YOU, it was because their husbands forgot to love and cherish her.

 

How would you respect their view that you failed to "love and cherish" your wife enough to stop her from cheating?

[newmoon]

Well I just want to state that unless you are an OW or OM who did not know your partner was married, you are partially to blame for someone else's marriage, life, and family to fall apart.

 

I am so tired of reading how the AP bears no significance whatsoever to their partners M. I'm also tired of reading how they think the A is partially the BS's fault.

 

I really truly and honestly think this is faulty thinking on the OW and OM's part. Similar to the faulty thinking of the WS.

 

Does anyone else agree with this? I am just always dumbfounded by the responses of OW and OM. They remind me a lot of the WS.

 

i feel like i'm reading a code. what is an AP? an A? a BS? WS?

 

i can only figure out OW/OM

[BetrayedH]

i feel like i'm reading a code. what is an AP? an A? a BS? WS?

 

i can only figure out OW/OM

 

A - affair

AP - affair partner

BS - Betrayed Spouse

WS - wayward spouse

[cocorico]

We DO kind of make a lifelong commitment, simply by the fact we're human beings. By being born our charge in life is to be kind to others, to not knowingly hurt others, IMO. I made a bigger commitment to my BS, but I also broke the Mom code, the girl code, the human being code by taking part in an affair with my AP.

 

 

What? Seriously, do american girls get given a book of "codes" they have to subscribe to, when they go to primary school? I've never heard of these things except on LS, but it really sounds like something 8 year old girls would "pinky-swear" to each other rather than anything adult.

 

"We make a lifelong commitment simply by the fact that we're human beings" - really? How would that even work? As you're exiting the womb, some lawyer asks if you're sure you're willing to go through with his, because by entering the world you're agreeing to this "lifelong commitment" to a whole bunch of "codes" that seem to be attached to your genitalia ("girl code", "mom code", etc). I certainly don't remember signing anything.... And I'm certain that if that was he choice I'd faced, id have said no thank you! I certainly don't owe any special loyalty to someone just because neither of us has a Y chromosome.

[cocorico]

Following your logic, no mm/mw is reponsibel for the pain of the ow or om. After all, he or she had the choice to get involved with a married person. Who cares if they are lied to and told the marriage is over/ they are separated/ I'll leave to be with you. They should ahve known better than to trust that person, and any apin they feel is all on them because they should have known better. after all, if mm/mw can say no, then so can ow/om.

 

I agree with this.

 

We are each responsible for our own actions, and for how we allow the actions of others to affect us.

[2.50 a gallon]

BH

 

 

Prior to my marriage, I was a non-caring, bad boy partier.

non-caring: a couple of months after we met, the X stopped by my place after getting out of class two hours early and caught me in bed with her best friend. My response was to tell her, "You can get mad and leave or you can join in."

partier: Monday and Tuesday were my days of rest. I was almost always out at the clubs on Friday and Saturday night. Wednesday for sure was get out night. I would go to work at 6 in the morning, a 7 1/2 hour work day had me home and in the pool shortly after 2. A couple of cool ones while I slept on my raft, by the time most were just getting home, I had eaten, and got ready to head out by 8, the bars closed at 1, if I hadn't hooked up was home by 1:30 for a couple more hours of sleep, and start the process all over. Ex and I met when she was 19, and she immediately offered to be one of my party girls. When I agreed to let her hang out with me, it was with the stipulation that she went back to college.

I did not love her until I saw her walking down the aisle, to marry me. The thought of we could have a home and kids, caused me to do a total 180. The future father in me gave up his wild ways.

Bad timing, she was just 22 and had fallen in love with a partier and had been waiting for 3 years to get down and party with me. Now she wants to go out and I want to stay home, save money buy a house and start a family

See the problem.

As for loving and cherish, I over did it.

[2.50 a gallon]

BH

 

 

It took me decades to figure out what I had did wrong.

Also I was a better than average dancer. Think along the lines of the movie Dirty Dancing. This was a decade before the movie came out and at that time I knew of no other guys who danced like that. That was another thing that she found attractive about me. She wanted to show me off. We did it at home, and maybe went out to a club maybe a dozen times, prior to and after tieing the knot.

She begged me for years to say the words "I Love You" and when I finally felt it and began saying it she saw me as weak and clingy.