spiderowl Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Just wondering what you guys would think in this situation? I've had a few brief relationships I suppose, after I divorced, but none have worked out and I've preferred to stay unattached rather than be with someone I wasn't really interested in. I know quite a few people locally through a mutual interest social network. I don't think any of the people that I know through this network have ever known me to be seen with a guy or in a relationship with a guy. It just so happens that I've never brought anyone I was seeing into this social group. It always seemed to me better to see if a long-term relationship developed first. After all, it could be really awkward if they knew all my contacts and then we broke up. Anyway, I wondered what guys especially would think of a woman they knew who never appeared to be dating anyone and for several years? What would you assume about such a woman? I've had options, just avoided them because I didn't feel interested enough. Edited February 17, 2015 by spiderowl
Frank2thepoint Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Anyway, I wondered what guys especially would think of a woman they knew who never appeared to be dating anyone and for several years? What would you assume about such a woman? From my perspective, the woman is independent (and would be using the definition properly when describing herself to others), and probably is happier being single. I'm sure such a woman would be great as a friend, activity partner, but definitely nothing romantic. I probably wouldn't even broach the subject on her romantic life because of how she presents herself. In addition, I wouldn't even flirt with her or even try to be sexual with her at all. Independent women are great as buddies. 1
No Limit Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Well the last time a guy approached me at the club and we got talking he didn't believe I was single. Even gave him my Facebook as proof but no, he had none of it.
Author spiderowl Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 From my perspective, the woman is independent (and would be using the definition properly when describing herself to others), and probably is happier being single. I'm sure such a woman would be great as a friend, activity partner, but definitely nothing romantic. I probably wouldn't even broach the subject on her romantic life because of how she presents herself. In addition, I wouldn't even flirt with her or even try to be sexual with her at all. Independent women are great as buddies. Interesting, so you are saying you would assume she was happy to be single and not interested in a relationship because she was never seen with anyone?
StalwartMind Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I see nothing wrong in your choice on how to approach a relationship or potential relationship and how you share it with your social network. Truthfully there are many reasons as to why we all do or don't do things. I think no less or more of anyone until I've established a qualifying estimate of your personality, which typically does take a good bit of time. In that sense I support your reason and choice of your social network not "needing" to know your contacts in case things didn't lead in the direction you were hoping for. @ No Limit: Sorry but that made me laugh, not to be rude but the heap was that guy thinking, I guess you'll never know but that just shows how odd us humans can be. Maybe we need to add a new profession to the job world, one who can issue an edict on your official status so guys like him will have no reason to believe otherwise...although I'm positive some would still claim it could be forged. 1
Frank2thepoint Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Interesting, so you are saying you would assume she was happy to be single and not interested in a relationship because she was never seen with anyone? If the woman never shows up with someone to functions thrown by friends, never talks about the idea of a relationship in her life, and just carries on being independent, then yes I assume she is happy with her single life. She may date some guys, but you could tell she isn't rushing into having a boyfriend.
Purepony Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I would assume she's an angry at the world feminist
salparadise Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I would assume similar to frank... either that she simply prefers autonomy to emotional connection, or that she is one of those unfortunate souls who'd like to be in a relationship but are unable to sustain one because they can't connect to people in that way. Unwilling/unable to be vulnerable, emotionally unavailable, armor protecting the soft inner core, holding people at arm's length... it's all pretty much the same thing, same result. Many people desire the kind of relationship and connection they see others enjoying, but ultimately they are more comfortable protecting their heart than opening it to the risk and taking a chance on love. As a man looking for love, I assume that a loving person would have loved before and I pretty much write off people who have been perpetually single. I don't presume to think I can break through a shell that no one else has.
Author spiderowl Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 I would assume she's an angry at the world feminist Really? Because she didn't attach herself to just anyone? Wow! I'm finding this thread quite revealing!
Author spiderowl Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 I would assume similar to frank... either that she simply prefers autonomy to emotional connection, or that she is one of those unfortunate souls who'd like to be in a relationship but are unable to sustain one because they can't connect to people in that way. Unwilling/unable to be vulnerable, emotionally unavailable, armor protecting the soft inner core, holding people at arm's length... it's all pretty much the same thing, same result. Many people desire the kind of relationship and connection they see others enjoying, but ultimately they are more comfortable protecting their heart than opening it to the risk and taking a chance on love. As a man looking for love, I assume that a loving person would have loved before and I pretty much write off people who have been perpetually single. I don't presume to think I can break through a shell that no one else has. Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate this outside perspective. If a woman appears unavailable just by being alone most of the time, what could she do to show she was open to relationships? It seems a bit of a Catch-22 situation.
Frank2thepoint Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 If a woman appears unavailable just by being alone most of the time, what could she do to show she was open to relationships? Simple, by actually showing interest in wanting to be in a relationship. Working towards it, risking vulnerability. If the woman dates men, she should decide to pursue a relationship with one of the men that stands out to her. The first -- and most important -- step for the woman is to actually want a relationship. She needs to figure out if she is willing to be dependent (opposite of independence) on a mate for companionship, emotional connection and support. Often times this is the most challenging obstacle to overcome for an independent person.
Author spiderowl Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 Simple, by actually showing interest in wanting to be in a relationship. Working towards it, risking vulnerability. If the woman dates men, she should decide to pursue a relationship with one of the men that stands out to her. The first -- and most important -- step for the woman is to actually want a relationship. She needs to figure out if she is willing to be dependent (opposite of independence) on a mate for companionship, emotional connection and support. Often times this is the most challenging obstacle to overcome for an independent person. I'm sure there are many women that want a relationship but can't find one. It is not the same as preferring to be independent, it is more a lack of options. It's just a shame that guys would assume she was not interested in a relationship when that might be something that really matters to her. 1
salparadise Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate this outside perspective. If a woman appears unavailable just by being alone most of the time, what could she do to show she was open to relationships? It seems a bit of a Catch-22 situation. My suggestion to you would be to concern yourself more with the actuality and not worry too much about appearances. You've been married and divorced, and have dated some since then, so I probably wouldn't make assumptions about you. It's normal and healthy to take some time after a divorce. I don't know how old you are, how long you've been divorced, or why your short-lived dating didn't blossom. I am pretty much in the same situation. I did have one post-divorce relationship that blossomed, but then ended (sadly) after about a year and a half, which indicates (most importantly to myself) that I am capable of falling in love again. I have not tried to keep dating and socializing completely separate; it's good to integrate potential partners into your life once you establish trust and advance beyond the initial stage (a couple of months, maybe less). But as it relates to you... I'd say just be open with your friends and let them know you're dating and interested in meeting people. Openness is a wonderful quality and it's relevant to a person's potential for relationship. A person with high integrity, congruency and self-worth has little reason to keep secrets or segregate people. So if I were you, I'd be thinking introspectively about how open and available I actually am (if you haven't done this work already) rather than what I can do to appear more available. Most people who are closed off aren't aware of it. I theorize that a large number of the people on dating sites are not actually available, but are making an effort to convince themselves and the world that they are. They go through the motions... believing that their desire to not be lonely equals being emotionally available- not so. It's a subconscious defensive mechanism. Everyone who is beyond a certain age has experienced pain in their life. Some people process it effectively and bloom again. Others employ the defense mechanism, which is a strategy of avoiding the risk of ever feeling that kind of pain again. Divorce is painful. Getting dumped is painful. Being rejected is painful even if you aren't in love. People who still reside in their pain from the past have trouble exposing themselves to the inherent risks of loving again. I don't mean this to sound like I'm saying you have this issue; I don't know you or where you are emotionally after the divorce and all. All I'm really saying is that if you focus on actually being available, appearances probably won't be an issue.
Frank2thepoint Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I'm sure there are many women that want a relationship but can't find one. It is not the same as preferring to be independent, it is more a lack of options. It's just a shame that guys would assume she was not interested in a relationship when that might be something that really matters to her. This sounds like the woman is too picky and expects perfection. I have to disagree with this because as you said, if the woman is rarely (if at all) is seen with someone, never talks to friends or family about dating someone, let alone commit to someone for a relationship, it really means the woman is not interested in being in a relationship. At least this is what many will perceive. There is nothing wrong with this of course. Plenty of people just don't want to deal with the frustrations of dating and relationships, so they opt to just be single.
Author spiderowl Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 My suggestion to you would be to concern yourself more with the actuality and not worry too much about appearances. You've been married and divorced, and have dated some since then, so I probably wouldn't make assumptions about you. It's normal and healthy to take some time after a divorce. I don't know how old you are, how long you've been divorced, or why your short-lived dating didn't blossom. I am pretty much in the same situation. I did have one post-divorce relationship that blossomed, but then ended (sadly) after about a year and a half, which indicates (most importantly to myself) that I am capable of falling in love again. I have not tried to keep dating and socializing completely separate; it's good to integrate potential partners into your life once you establish trust and advance beyond the initial stage (a couple of months, maybe less). But as it relates to you... I'd say just be open with your friends and let them know you're dating and interested in meeting people. Openness is a wonderful quality and it's relevant to a person's potential for relationship. A person with high integrity, congruency and self-worth has little reason to keep secrets or segregate people. So if I were you, I'd be thinking introspectively about how open and available I actually am (if you haven't done this work already) rather than what I can do to appear more available. Most people who are closed off aren't aware of it. I theorize that a large number of the people on dating sites are not actually available, but are making an effort to convince themselves and the world that they are. They go through the motions... believing that their desire to not be lonely equals being emotionally available- not so. It's a subconscious defensive mechanism. Everyone who is beyond a certain age has experienced pain in their life. Some people process it effectively and bloom again. Others employ the defense mechanism, which is a strategy of avoiding the risk of ever feeling that kind of pain again. Divorce is painful. Getting dumped is painful. Being rejected is painful even if you aren't in love. People who still reside in their pain from the past have trouble exposing themselves to the inherent risks of loving again. I don't mean this to sound like I'm saying you have this issue; I don't know you or where you are emotionally after the divorce and all. All I'm really saying is that if you focus on actually being available, appearances probably won't be an issue. Thanks. The divorce was a long time ago, just not really felt anyone I met was right for anything long-term and didn't want to get embroiled in something bound to end. You are right about avoiding pain. I am thinking about what you've said and it's interesting stuff.
Author spiderowl Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 This sounds like the woman is too picky and expects perfection. I have to disagree with this because as you said, if the woman is rarely (if at all) is seen with someone, never talks to friends or family about dating someone, let alone commit to someone for a relationship, it really means the woman is not interested in being in a relationship. At least this is what many will perceive. There is nothing wrong with this of course. Plenty of people just don't want to deal with the frustrations of dating and relationships, so they opt to just be single. I see you point but friend and family aren't particularly interested in hearing about dating, even if you do talk about it. It's not possible to commit to someone if you don't feel comfortable with them or on the same wavelength. The issue about being too picky - maybe that's true - but surely others don't choose to commit to people they feel have bad manners, poor hygiene or lower intelligence than them? I think one needs to be a bit selective.
salparadise Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Thanks. The divorce was a long time ago, just not really felt anyone I met was right for anything long-term and didn't want to get embroiled in something bound to end. You are right about avoiding pain. I am thinking about what you've said and it's interesting stuff. It's not possible to commit to someone if you don't feel comfortable with them or on the same wavelength. The issue about being too picky - maybe that's true - but surely others don't choose to commit to people they feel have bad manners, poor hygiene or lower intelligence than them? I think one needs to be a bit selective. Well spiderowl, this is starting to sound more like more like the pattern than taking a bit of time to equilibrate after a divorce. Being picky is exactly how some people rationalize avoidance... the defensive mechanism I spoke of. If you want to avoid the possibility of another heartbreak, all you have to do is identify the reason why each new person you meet isn't exactly right. Easy peasy. Eventually time will be called and you will have managed to get through the rest of your life without facing the fear, dealing with the pain, experiencing another heartbreak... or taking a chance on love again. Have you done therapy?
Author spiderowl Posted February 24, 2015 Author Posted February 24, 2015 I am thinking about what you are saying salparadise. I am trying not to immediately decide against people based on minor things but there does have to be a connection. I am a bit fussy I know. I am working on this lack of trust and giving people a chance. I am talking to a guy now. I would have ruled him out before for various reasons but we've been chatting a while. Whether the connection will continue or not I don't know.
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