Why do they always say that nice guys finish last?

February 16, 2015

I think for the purposes of LS and other forums like it, nice guys are guys who pretended to be nice but really weren't.

I have had a few women explain it to me as "nice" is how you describe a guy who is basically OK as a person but not good looking or rich or anything. Like he won't beat you or steal from you but you won't like him in a romantic way.

So the worst thing to be labeled as by a woman is nice. Where they think either you're a piece of **** or a horrible person lol.

definition of nice:

pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory.

"we had a nice time"

synonyms: enjoyable, pleasant, agreeable, good, satisfying, gratifying, delightful, marvelous;

What exactly am I missing here? I suppose since this is LS I can't be too surprised though.

February 16, 2015

So the worst thing to be labeled as by a woman is nice. Where they think either you're a piece of **** or a horrible person lol.

definition of nice:

pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory.
"we had a nice time"
synonyms: enjoyable, pleasant, agreeable, good, satisfying, gratifying, delightful, marvelous;

What exactly am I missing here? I suppose since this is LS I can't be too surprised though.

The entertainment value maybe? I don't know.

February 16, 2015

The entertainment value maybe? I don't know.

haha. It's pretty ridiculous. And it seems these types of threads always label it as women in general that view it like that. I highly doubt every woman thinks a nice guy is really an a-hole.

February 16, 2015

Nice guys don't finish last, they finish in the shower.

February 16, 2015

haha. It's pretty ridiculous. And it seems these types of threads always label it as women in general that view it like that. I highly doubt every woman thinks a nice guy is really an a-hole.

It's pretty easy to spot a guy who is actually nice versus a guy who is just jumping through hoops to get what he thinks he is owed.

There's a jaded, hard kind of amusement in their tone, an expectation that every woman is somehow going to wrong them, a litany of tales about all the woman who HAVE "wronged them," a generalization when speaking of women, etc.

A genuinely nice man will see each woman as an individual. The fake kind of jaded nice guy with social issues and no frame of reference for the real world of dating will see women as this lump sum of humanity that is flawed for not wanting to sleep with him.

Let me put it this way: I wouldn't actually do this because it is a violation, but I could probably go through every post in general Relationships and assess with 95% accuracy who really is and who really is not a nice guy based on the way they speak about women in general.

February 16, 2015

society gives all of us a value as a mate. Most men and women who are assigned the highest value will mate together. The ones will the lowest value will mate together, and so on...

For men it comes down to power and money, for women it is beauty and youth.

February 16, 2015

Round and round and round it goes!

I like nice/kind men. They like to make people laugh, they make the world a better place.

I do NOT like Mr Nice Guys. They are sneaky and manipulative and one never knows where they stand.

There is a difference.

February 16, 2015

It's pretty easy to spot a guy who is actually nice versus a guy who is just jumping through hoops to get what he thinks he is owed.

There's a jaded, hard kind of amusement in their tone, an expectation that every woman is somehow going to wrong them, a litany of tales about all the woman who HAVE "wronged them," a generalization when speaking of women, etc.

A genuinely nice man will see each woman as an individual. The fake kind of jaded nice guy with social issues and no frame of reference for the real world of dating will see women as this lump sum of humanity that is flawed for not wanting to sleep with him.

Let me put it this way: I wouldn't actually do this because it is a violation, but I could probably go through every post in general Relationships and assess with 95% accuracy who really is and who really is not a nice guy based on the way they speak about women in general.

But the problem with that is, whatever isn't seen as you're own individual view, you're going to view as not a nice person. Like for instance, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a woman that's had a lot of casual sex , does that make me not a nice person?

February 16, 2015

society gives all of us a value as a mate. Most men and women who are assigned the highest value will mate together. The ones will the lowest value will mate together, and so on...

For men it comes down to power and money, for women it is beauty and youth.

That seems to be true. But not in anywhere near all cases at all. There's only a small % of men that make over even 100gs a year. Are women settling for 90% of men in that case? Of course a lot of women do settle, no question about it, but with 85-90% of men? That would be pretty sad.

Edited February 16, 2015 by NJ123

February 16, 2015

But the problem with that is, whatever isn't seen as you're own individual view, you're going to view as not a nice person. Like for instance, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a woman that's had a lot of casual sex , does that make me not a nice person?

I don't think that makes you not a nice person. Now, if you are ugly and demeaning about how you express it, THAT might not be nice, but simply having a preference doesn't make you not nice.

Example of a nice man I met: We had some good conversation, there wasn't a spark for me. I was honest, he said "oh well can't blame a guy for trying" with a chuckle, we went our separate ways. We had a couple of mutual friends, and I heard from one of them that he thought I was a great person. He went on to meet someone who fell head over heels in love with him and is happy. Nice man.

I met another man. We had good conversation. He was very interested in everything I had to say. When I was not romantically interested, he kept pushing. When I finally said politely but firmly that he was a great person but I was not going to change my mind, he cursed at me and then told people I was a tease.

I was the same friendly but honest person with both of them. The former was genuinely nice. The latter expected something and pitched a tantrum when he didn't get it.

February 16, 2015

It's pretty easy to spot a guy who is actually nice versus a guy who is just jumping through hoops to get what he thinks he is owed.

There's a jaded, hard kind of amusement in their tone, an expectation that every woman is somehow going to wrong them, a litany of tales about all the woman who HAVE "wronged them," a generalization when speaking of women, etc.

A genuinely nice man will see each woman as an individual. The fake kind of jaded nice guy with social issues and no frame of reference for the real world of dating will see women as this lump sum of humanity that is flawed for not wanting to sleep with him.

Let me put it this way: I wouldn't actually do this because it is a violation, but I could probably go through every post in general Relationships and assess with 95% accuracy who really is and who really is not a nice guy based on the way they speak about women in general.

There are plenty of people like that of borh genders. Believe there are women who generalize men as well. There is a lot of bitterness and mistrust between men and women out there.

February 17, 2015

And thank god I'm not one of them.......

February 17, 2015

The difference between a nice guy and a bad boy/jerk is that one is physically attractive, the other isn't. You can make your own mind up on which is which.

I don't think that is it at all. There are plenty of ugly bad boys out there. The difference between the quote: "Mr nice guy" and a bad boy / jerk has nothing to do with looks. The difference is the jerk is overtly forward about what he wants and goes after it directly. Being a jerk he is also likely selfish possibly abusive and has other negative issues with his personality.

The "nice guy" basically wants the exact same thing as the jerk but try's to get it by concealing what he really wants under a layer of fake nicey nice bull****. He is only being nice to try and get what he wants from a girl - that is the key point. He is being fake - overly accommodating and never says what he really means because he thinks being agreeable will win him favor with a girl. What the nice guy doesn't realize is that this act that he puts on as an attempt to get the girl ...... is literally like chick repellent. It has the exact opposite affect to what he is looking to achieve.

In a relationship partner girls want a guy with a backbone. A guy who has strong opinions and is willing to disagree with her, tease her, argue a point with her. He does actually get angry at appropriate times. They want a man not a teddy bear. The truth is that a lot of women will take a bad boy / jerk who has those characteristics over a "nice guy" who is a boring, accommodating doormat.

Somewhere between the "Nice Guy" and the "Bad boy / Jerk" is where the everyday man lives. He is not perfect but he is genuine and up front about his intentions and out there trying to find the equivalent normal well adjusted woman who is pretty, fun and not crazy.

February 17, 2015

Here's the basic reason a man will say nice guys finish last:

Because if the woman he has been nice to in order to get into her pants won't let him into her pants...

He needs something besides himself to blame.

February 17, 2015

Being a man at the time, I found use of the phrase as a way of taking responsibility for my own actions and their results. If who I was was not attractive, and I clearly wasn't after many years of rejections, it was a method of accepting that who I was generally was accepted and appreciated in the world and culture but not attractive to women so I had to work on myself. Much later, having completed that work and becoming more attractive and enjoying the successes of that process, I reflected on it and who I had become and made the choice to abandon the changes and forgo the attraction and move on to enjoying life authentically and hopefully with longevity. In that sense, living a long life, finishing last is something I'll be quite happy to do.

February 17, 2015

Okay, here's my definition of a good guy versus a Mr Nice Guy.

- A good guy is friendly and compassionate towards men and women of all ages, regardless of whether or not he is trying to sleep with them. A Nice Guy reserves his niceness for women he is trying to sleep with. He has little interest in being friendly with other men, older women or women he considers unattractive. I could probably dig up 100s of posts on this board by self-proclaimed Nice Guys angry and insulted because fat/unattractive women have the gall to speak to them in a friendly manner. Good guys have no ulterior motives for being friendly, they have friends of both genders and varying levels of attractiveness.

- A good guy has his own interests and hobbies and does not try to mold his interests to fit a woman's. Good guys are confident in themselves and unafraid to reveal that they are interested in different things or hold different opinions. Nice Guys only reveal things that a woman will find appealing and parrot a woman's opinions back to her in an attempt to create an artificial feeling of closeness in a woman. It's unsettling and very obvious.

- Good guys respect women as human beings and are willing to stand up for women. They also respect men, and respect themselves. Nice Guys often portray themselves as "better" than other men because they respect women more, and try to display this by disparaging how sexist other men are, how other men are cheaters, liars, etc, and how THEY treat women like princesses and so forth. Good guys don't need to disparage other men. Good guys respect women and treat them well without continually informing everyone how much better they treat women than the average man.

- Good guys make their intentions obvious when pursuing a woman. Good guys are straightforward and let women know that they are interested. They flirt. They ask women out. They tell women point blank that they are interested. They don't plot to lure a woman in with platonic niceness so that the woman will somehow "fall for him" even though she previously expressed disinterest. If a woman tells a good guy that she has no interest in anything other than platonic friendship, a good guy either accepts platonic friendship and ceases his attempts to woo her OR he rejects the platonic friendship and moves on.

- Good guys take responsibility for their feelings. When rejected, good guys don't lash out and call women bitches or insist that women are only rejecting them because they hold unrealistic standards. Good guys aren't bitter and angry towards women who reject a request for a date. Good guys accept that a woman is not interested and move on, either by ending the friendship or ending their romantic interest in the woman.

- Good guys don't bend over backwards to appease women. Good guys don't sacrifice their own emotional well-being in an attempt to win a woman. Good guys respect themselves enough to end relationships (be they friendships or romantic) that aren't working and move on. Good guys are honest with themselves and with women, telling the truth to women even when the truth isn't easy to hear.

February 17, 2015

Okay, here's my definition of a good guy versus a Mr Nice Guy.

- A good guy is friendly and compassionate towards men and women of all ages, regardless of whether or not he is trying to sleep with them. A Nice Guy reserves his niceness for women he is trying to sleep with. He has little interest in being friendly with other men, older women or women he considers unattractive. I could probably dig up 100s of posts on this board by self-proclaimed Nice Guys angry and insulted because fat/unattractive women have the gall to speak to them in a friendly manner. Good guys have no ulterior motives for being friendly, they have friends of both genders and varying levels of attractiveness.

- A good guy has his own interests and hobbies and does not try to mold his interests to fit a woman's. Good guys are confident in themselves and unafraid to reveal that they are interested in different things or hold different opinions. Nice Guys only reveal things that a woman will find appealing and parrot a woman's opinions back to her in an attempt to create an artificial feeling of closeness in a woman. It's unsettling and very obvious.

- Good guys respect women as human beings and are willing to stand up for women. They also respect men, and respect themselves. Nice Guys often portray themselves as "better" than other men because they respect women more, and try to display this by disparaging how sexist other men are, how other men are cheaters, liars, etc, and how THEY treat women like princesses and so forth. Good guys don't need to disparage other men. Good guys respect women and treat them well without continually informing everyone how much better they treat women than the average man.

- Good guys make their intentions obvious when pursuing a woman. Good guys are straightforward and let women know that they are interested. They flirt. They ask women out. They tell women point blank that they are interested. They don't plot to lure a woman in with platonic niceness so that the woman will somehow "fall for him" even though she previously expressed disinterest. If a woman tells a good guy that she has no interest in anything other than platonic friendship, a good guy either accepts platonic friendship and ceases his attempts to woo her OR he rejects the platonic friendship and moves on.

- Good guys take responsibility for their feelings. When rejected, good guys don't lash out and call women bitches or insist that women are only rejecting them because they hold unrealistic standards. Good guys aren't bitter and angry towards women who reject a request for a date. Good guys accept that a woman is not interested and move on, either by ending the friendship or ending their romantic interest in the woman.

- Good guys don't bend over backwards to appease women. Good guys don't sacrifice their own emotional well-being in an attempt to win a woman. Good guys respect themselves enough to end relationships (be they friendships or romantic) that aren't working and move on. Good guys are honest with themselves and with women, telling the truth to women even when the truth isn't easy to hear.

This post needs many likes

February 17, 2015

Good grief -- what's with all this malicious intent that's being bestowed on guys who show a few "nice guy" tendencies?? OK, if you're running into guys who are in their 30's and 40's who show over-the-top "nice guy" behavior, that's one thing, but I think 9 times out of 10 it's just a matter of not knowing any better and needing some time to mature and figure things out. Guys never seem to get any slack about that -- is it any different than young women going through "bad boy" phases?

Here is my take on why "nice guys" choose end-around tactics to get to know women they (we) are interested in: We see guys of the "jerk" variety who we really don't want to be like, so we try to set ourselves apart from them by acting differently around women than they do. No malicious intent -- in our minds, it just doesn't make any sense that the same approach to talking and flirting with women would work for both the underwear model and the awkward, introverted science geek.

And sometimes, trying to completely eliminate certain "nice guy" tendencies can run into conflict with legitimate core beliefs. For instance, I agree that a man should become comfortable enough with his outside interests and opinions that he won't lay them down at the drop of a hat for a woman's sake but so many discussions about having a backbone are connected to women's interest in arguing and debating with their prospective partner in order to create some kind of "intellectual challenge". Sorry, I find that to be ridiculous and I'm not going to do that -- I just don't communicate with people well in that manner. Period. I've kind of developed my own style of handling those type of discussions that seems to be OK.

Anyway, I don't think all of the "nice guy" lambasting on LS is warranted. We're already punishing ourselves plenty.

February 17, 2015

Anyway, I don't think all of the "nice guy" lambasting on LS is warranted. We're already punishing ourselves plenty.

A clear difference was made between the nice guy who is a good person and the Nice Guy who turns into an emotional blackmailing jerk when his person of interest does not return his affection.

This is a clear case of 'if the hat doesn't fit, don't wear it'.

February 18, 2015

I don't like bad guys either.

I don't like doormats though and some nice people can be doormats.

Dare I say, I just like 'normal' (whatever normal is!)

Some women like bad guys but I find that these women usually have very low self-esteem or are commitment phobic or rebelling.

If a man is VERY attractive and 'bad' then it is lust cancelling out a ****ty character pure and simple.

Still pretty much every girl I know has a 'nice' guy (well I don't know about behind the scenes but on the surface of it anyway...)

2 of my friends love the bad boy but they both grew up with whack father figures which may have something to do with it. Who knows?

As soon as a man shows disrespect, rudeness etc to me I close off and don't want to be around him.

I imagine most people do the same.

For some women, they like the idea of nurturing of fixing a bad boy and see them as a project - the reverse of white Knight syndrome.

February 18, 2015

For some women, they like the idea of nurturing of fixing a bad boy and see them as a project - the reverse of white Knight syndrome.

so that would be, like, Black Knight Syndrome?

February 18, 2015

i think nice guy should be used in context.....a nice guy should be genuinely nice to all...no ambiguity...no mask...no hidden agenda...there is so much confusion surrounding the terminology nice guy because nice masks bad....wouldnt it be so much cooler if a guy says yeah I admit I love being a nice guy for no reason at all other than to be nice..because its right to be nice to all....not dishonest mind gamers who want to get in your pants...and proclaim yep i am a ni9ce guy...what color underwear are you wearing going through their head as they nod sagely that nice is few and far between.........deb

February 18, 2015

Really? Are we really trying to justify something as illogical as attraction as something logical? C'mon guys... Someone can be "good on paper" but they get a woman as excited as a dog in a tight Christmas sweater. Attraction speaks to primal impulses in us, we can't control it.

Communism works. Communism is great. Equal land. Equal pay. Equal rights. Looks good, right?

On paper.

February 18, 2015

I'm looking for a "common sense girl."

Somebody who will dump a guy instantly if he is abusive or cheats on her. A girl who won't take any crap from a guy who is disrespectful to her or tries to be manipulative. A girl who is able to voice the concerns she has about the relationship.

There are many many girls like that but that doesn't mean that they'll want to go out with the self described "nice guy!" It's not like there are a bunch of awful guys who are scooping up all the girls that the "nice guys" feel entitled to because they're so "nice," it would be a good thing if some of you would try to understand this!! I mean it's a little too easy to say to yourself "she won't date or have sex with me because I am such a nice guy and she prefers abusive jerks!" Sorry but maybe she just isn't into you!! ANd maybe there are even things you (not you personally) could do to be more attractive to women !

February 18, 2015

As a guy myself, I don't believe most guys are true nice guys.

Everyone of us wants something, but our moral code sometimes gets in the way of that, whether it be by fear, or uncertainty.

A lot of "Nice Guys" really want sex but they feel like in order to get it, they have to act a certain way, when in reality, the simple truth is some women are straight up not going to be interested.

the stereotypical "Bad Boys" are assertive, usually confident, and unafraid of rejection. Many of these guys are already good looking and have options, but in reality, a LOT of guys out there are good looking.

The issue comes with this truth: life is unfair. Some guys by pure genetic chance are going to pull more girls.

But no one likes a pretend nice person just to manipulate them into getting what you want.

Instead of trying to be something for a woman. Be you and enjoy life. Women come and go, but you got to live with yourself.

Nice guy or jerk, if you don't love yourself, how is someone else going to love you?

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Why do they always say that nice guys finish last?

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