E-Squared Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Okay, for a while, I have looked up some articles and threads about things involving "nice guys" and how they are not as "nice" as they claim. A lot of them are entitled and feel like they are owed dates and all that stuff. One article that I've read was actually a blog entry. Here is the link. Now I have read that article multiple times and I see that the writer made a valid point. I remember reading comments and it seemed that the piece was directed towards someone but I am not sure. What also got me was the comic strip she put up at the top. I look at that comic strip and it makes sense to a point from what the cartoonist drew. I chuckle at how the "nice guy" is on a horse at first in his vision, but in the realistic version, the guy is hiding in the bushes, and the girl couldn't be any more uncomfortable. The same could possibly be said about these threads and articles that I've read about this guy stalking some Hot Topic employee on Facebook, and she gave him a rant message. Now in some ways, I am not sure if I ever felt this entitled but I have stressed over some things like this. Personally, my stress is more that I sometimes compare myself to others in that I feel that I should have more dating experience than I actually do. However, I have never tried hanging around a girl in hopes that it would get me laid. I have hung out with them because I liked them, but I wasn't expecting much out of it. I am wondering if there are any ladies on here who have dealt with these types, or if there are any guys on here who have experienced this.
BetrayedH Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I've always been a nice guy. I went thru periods of little success with women but in my latter years, I've no doubt that I can be successful (although I lean towards committed relationships so I'm not very tested in that department). I don't think the trait of being nice stops you from getting laid. I do, however, think that a lack of confidence has a MAJOR impact on getting laid. Looks, money, and confidence are where it's at. Women are generally far more attracted to confidence than any kind of sheepishness. It appears to me that bad boys generally reek of confidence (thus, making them more successful with women) and so we try to conflate that to meaning that nice guys are disliked. Personally, I think the trick is to remain a nice guy but to also exude a ton of self-confidence. 1
regine_phalange Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Being good is more important than being nice. Don't misunderstand me, nice manners are wonderful, but still a pretty basic behavioural thing that most people have. What does it bring on the table exactly? On the other hand, being good is deeper and much more rare. It's not a flaw or a habit, it's conscious actions driven by a pure intent. It's something to admire, as is a man who says things as they are. Most women need to admire and trust a man. This is how we fall in love.
johan Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Personally, I think the trick is to remain a nice guy but to also exude a ton of self-confidence. I wouldn't say a ton. Just enough. It doesn't need to be an act. You just have to know yourself and not be too self-critical. It's typical that if you like yourself, women will like you, too. If you love yourself intensely, they will think you're an idiot. 1
Maleficent Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I think every woman on earth has dealt with at least one Nice Guy TM. Not saying all nice guys are Nice Guys TM.
Author E-Squared Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 Okay, for the most part I consider myself to be a good guy, but I am not one of those people who are entitled like I have mentioned, nor do I feel like I am owed a date. I would say that I am confident enough in certain areas, but I still need to work on admitting my feelings to a woman. I am a good guy but I don't think that just because I am nice to a woman that it should mean that she should like me that way. Although I have been asked in the past "Why is a nice guy like you single?"
regine_phalange Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 but I still need to work on admitting my feelings to a woman. This is okay, even charming. I like uncool people. But there's nothing more irresistible than an uncool person saying things as they are when they decide to open their mouth.
Robert Z Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Being good is more important than being nice. Don't misunderstand me, nice manners are wonderful, but still a pretty basic behavioural thing that most people have. What does it bring on the table exactly? On the other hand, being good is deeper and much more rare. It's not a flaw or a habit, it's conscious actions driven by a pure intent. It's something to admire, as is a man who says things as they are. Most women need to admire and trust a man. This is how we fall in love. Good is a synonym for nice, along with virtuous, respectable, kind... You mean, polite.
regine_phalange Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Good is a synonym for nice, along with virtuous, respectable, kind... You mean, polite. Probably yes thanks. I mean polite "nice".
BetrayedH Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I wouldn't say a ton. Just enough. It doesn't need to be an act. You just have to know yourself and not be too self-critical. It's typical that if you like yourself, women will like you, too. If you love yourself intensely, they will think you're an idiot. Fair enough. I struggled to find the right phrase. There's a fine line between confidence and cockiness. I'm simply confident in myself. I'm proud of who I am. But I don't feel a need to strut like a peacock. It's not about impressing anyone. That said, I'm in my 40s now. I've suffered a lot of strife in life and come out the other side knowing that on a fundamental level, I can be proud of the decisions I have made. Much of the strife I suffered wasn't because of who I am but the dumb luck (and dumb people) that have come across my path. I no longer internalize it as if it is a reflection of me. And frankly, a lot of my confidence now stems from the fact that I have remained a good (or nice) person. I can be proud of the actions I've taken (with a few exceptions that I try to keep to a minimum). With or without the validation of other people, I am comfortable in my own skin. 1
Gloria25 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Wow, that link to that comic/letter was brutal... Anywho, thanks to a letter to my fav podcaster, a woman made a great distinction between the "nice" guy and a "good" guy. We women want "good" guys. Good guys are gentlemen. But, they have a backbone. They don't give out their attention, time, affection to someone who doesn't reciprocate, respect and/or appreciate them. Now, we women don't want "nice" guys. Nice guys have no backbone. They are doormats. People don't respect doormats. I am a "nice" gal a lot of times too. Cuz I'm so independent - I try to overcompensate by being "nice" and accommodating. But, I still think I'm more of a "good" girl, cuz even if it takes me a while to come to my senses - I stop wasting my time with someone who isn't giving me anything in return. I've watched a lot of stalker shows and yes, IMO, "nice" guys often aren't so "nice". They don't have the confidence and/or courage to step up and handle their business. They are the emotional tampon, the "friendzoned" guy, the "scared to make a move guy" - then get mad when they don't get their way. The guy I was seeing years ago, who was chasing the "town ho"? He considered himself a "nice" guy, but I came to find out he wasn't so "nice". He tried to tell me how to dress, he played mind games when I didn't say "ILY" in three months of knowing him, etc. And, while I thought the town ho, his ex wife, and all the international hussies he chased were manipulating him - coming here to LS got me thinking and I now believe he thought he could "control" these women cuz they needed/wanted green-cards and a military ID dependent card. But, at the end of the day, these women were smarter than him and played him - cuz at the end of the day he - like most "nice" guys - didn't have the cojones and/or skills to have a backbone and put their time/affections/attentions to a woman who deserved it. Edited February 16, 2015 by Gloria25 2
wb1988 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Being a nice guy actually has nothing to do with being nice (polite). 'Nice guy' is a term that women use when describing a needy, spineless, unconfident, white-knight type of guy that they don't wan't. Unfortunately what should be an insult is often considered a compliment by many guys because it has the word 'nice' in it, but in the end it can develop frustration. Do you guys remember that white/asian guy in Santa Barbara that did the drive by shootings? After reading a few articles about him it's clear that he was the classic 'nice guy' with the entitled, arrogant and boastful attitude despite being a virgin. Actually now that I think about it, have you guys ever heard of a douchebag or jerk that shot up a school or murdered women? No, it's always the 'nice' guys. 2
DukeNukem47 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Okay, for a while, I have looked up some articles and threads about things involving "nice guys" and how they are not as "nice" as they claim. A lot of them are entitled and feel like they are owed dates and all that stuff. One article that I've read was actually a blog entry. Here is the link. Now I have read that article multiple times and I see that the writer made a valid point. I remember reading comments and it seemed that the piece was directed towards someone but I am not sure. What also got me was the comic strip she put up at the top. I look at that comic strip and it makes sense to a point from what the cartoonist drew. I chuckle at how the "nice guy" is on a horse at first in his vision, but in the realistic version, the guy is hiding in the bushes, and the girl couldn't be any more uncomfortable. The same could possibly be said about these threads and articles that I've read about this guy stalking some Hot Topic employee on Facebook, and she gave him a rant message. Now in some ways, I am not sure if I ever felt this entitled but I have stressed over some things like this. Personally, my stress is more that I sometimes compare myself to others in that I feel that I should have more dating experience than I actually do. However, I have never tried hanging around a girl in hopes that it would get me laid. I have hung out with them because I liked them, but I wasn't expecting much out of it. I am wondering if there are any ladies on here who have dealt with these types, or if there are any guys on here who have experienced this. Who would want to date the woman that wrote this article anyway? She sounds incredibly entitled herself. She only talks about what men offer her and say things like "If he made a move early on, I would let him take me out", as if she is granting him some sort of honor. :sick: 1
Author E-Squared Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Well, I am not so sure if I count as a "nice guy" because I hardly get women, but that's also because I rarely put myself out there. I have seen some pictures of some guys who have some creepy qualities about them on OKCupid, that there are photos with the answers they have used for questions that don't make them so nice.
elaine567 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Who would want to date the woman that wrote this article anyway? She sounds incredibly entitled herself. She only talks about what men offer her and say things like "If he made a move early on, I would let him take me out", as if she is granting him some sort of honor. :sick: This is her paragraph that explains what she is trying to get across here. "That’s what you never understood about relationships, Nice Guy. You can’t win people, not with all the put-on niceness in the world. You can’t mould yourself into what you think a woman wants and hope she’ll fill all the gaps in you. You have to be your own person...and cultivate your own interests and live your own life and hope that one day, you’ll find someone who thinks your life is pretty neat and wants to share it with you, someone with a life of her own that’s so neat you want to share it with her." 2
Author E-Squared Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 The thing that got me so much about that comic strip was the fact that the guy begs this woman to be with him, and it would seem that those two don't know each other, or maybe the girl doesn't know the guy, yet I can guess that he knows who she is and had been stalking her? That's what I would only guess. The above part makes sense because the guy is on a horse, and I guess a guy riding a stallion is considered "valiant," and takes the girl saying that he is "too nice" with anger. Of course, him lying in a fetal position in a state of depression does kind of crack me up.
toolforgrowth Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Who would want to date the woman that wrote this article anyway? She sounds incredibly entitled herself. She only talks about what men offer her and say things like "If he made a move early on, I would let him take me out", as if she is granting him some sort of honor. :sick: That's honestly not what I got out of it at all. The Nice Guy never had the balls to ask her out. By being nice, he's hoping she'll ask him, or at least show her devotion for all his "niceness", by coming on to him. Free rides and coffees can't compete with Hamlet. I also think the Nice Guy is setting himself up for failure by pining over a woman who's already in a relationship. Typical Nice Guy behavior: falling for a woman who is unavailable. I used to be a Nice Guy, and I thought the article was spot on. If anything, I felt the author was being rather generous by finding a subtle way to basically say, "If you wanted to go out with me, you should have nutted up and asked me when you had the chance. Now it's too late. Get over it".
Justanaverageguy Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Good is a synonym for nice, along with virtuous, respectable, kind... You mean, polite. No nice in general could be used as a synonym for good. But when you say "nice guy" it means something else entirely different. I think there is a huge difference between being a "good guy" and what people today term a "nice guy". In German there is actually a saying I like which is - Nett is the klein bruder von Scheiße. In English that translates to - Nice is the little brother of 5hit. Nice is not a compliment it is an insult. "Nice guys" is basically slang for those men who lack confidence and don't have the balls to make a move, to put themselves out there. Instead of being assertive with their feelings, wants and desires for a woman they instead try and win a girls affection by becoming friends with them. He will put theirs and others needs above his own - doing things for them as some sort of attempt to win their favor or get a pay off. Like they only did the nice deed to basically try and get laid. I think nice guy syndrome has been bread more and more into guys these days because from a young age men are taught a bunch of lies about what women actually want. Also with a lot of the womens rights and what is now considered to be "appropriate" some are just plain scared to make the first move on a woman for fear of being called a sleaze. A good guy on the other hand I think is entirely different to a nice guy. It is a guy who shows respect, is not a sleaze bag, doesn't use people and will be polite and considerate. But he also isn't afraid to say what he wants and go after it. If he likes a girl .... he will make a direct move for her and tell her. He does not constantly put other peoples needs above his own. He see's his own needs as equally important. He also doesn't perform good actions with an expectation of a payoff at the end. He does good things just because its the right thing to do and he is a considerate person. Lastly and maybe most importantly if push comes to shove he won't let people walk all over him like a nice guy does. Nice guys finish last for a reason. 2
Toodaloo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I am wondering if there are any ladies on here who have dealt with these types, or if there are any guys on here who have experienced this. I had a friend. He was great. Lovely guy. But he would never let me pay for a meal/ drinks when we went out, rarely let me drive. Last time I blocked his car in so I could drive... and so on and so forth. He didn't allow me to do what friends do. I.E. reciprocate. Last year I went over to see him for some support after I split up with my ex and also to check up on him as he was going through a tough phase at work... ended up having my arse slapped and gropped and him wanting to have casual sex with me... funnily enough none of my other friends have done that... I haven't spoken to him since. I miss him as he is great. He is fun and lovely and we get on well. But I am not going to lead him on and its seems as though the last 20 years has been him sitting and waiting rather than just being my friend. I actually feel really angry about that. He would have had a much better chance at both relationship and/ or friendship if he had just simply been my friend and been himself. 2
Toodaloo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 No nice in general could be used as a synonym for good. But when you say "nice guy" it means something else entirely different. I think there is a huge difference between being a "good guy" and what people today term a "nice guy". In German there is actually a saying I like which is - Nett is the klein bruder von Scheiße. In English that translates to - Nice is the little brother of 5hit. Nice is not a compliment it is an insult. A good guy on the other hand I think is entirely different to a nice guy. It is a guy who shows respect, is not a sleaze bag, doesn't use people and will be polite and considerate. But he also isn't afraid to say what he wants and go after it. If he likes a girl .... he will make a direct move for her and tell her. He does not constantly put other peoples needs above his own. He see's his own needs as equally important. He also doesn't perform good actions with an expectation of a payoff at the end. He does good things just because its the right thing to do and he is a considerate person. Lastly and maybe most importantly if push comes to shove he won't let people walk all over him like a nice guy does. Nice guys finish last for a reason. I like that saying. I hear people being described as "nice" all the time but there is no substance to back it up. I hate being referred to as "nice". Its such a non word. 1
Revolver Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Being a nice guy actually has nothing to do with being nice (polite). 'Nice guy' is a term that women use when describing a needy, spineless, unconfident, white-knight type of guy that they don't wan't. Unfortunately what should be an insult is often considered a compliment by many guys because it has the word 'nice' in it, but in the end it can develop frustration. Do you guys remember that white/asian guy in Santa Barbara that did the drive by shootings? After reading a few articles about him it's clear that he was the classic 'nice guy' with the entitled, arrogant and boastful attitude despite being a virgin. Actually now that I think about it, have you guys ever heard of a douchebag or jerk that shot up a school or murdered women? No, it's always the 'nice' guys. Jerks don't shoot up schools because they are getting laid on a regular basis
Taramere Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Do you guys remember that white/asian guy in Santa Barbara that did the drive by shootings? After reading a few articles about him it's clear that he was the classic 'nice guy' with the entitled, arrogant and boastful attitude despite being a virgin. Actually now that I think about it, have you guys ever heard of a douchebag or jerk that shot up a school or murdered women? No, it's always the 'nice' guys. He may have regarded himself as a nice guy, but I doubt many people who knew him saw him in the same light. When I use the word "nice" about somebody, I mean that I find them pleasant to be around, considerate of others and that generally I like them. I think a man like that is more, rather than less attractive. There's a balance, though. Being overly civilised can create a bit of a wall. Good manners have to be balanced with the ability to create a sense of comfort and intimacy, which tends to involve a bit of banter. With super nice, polite guys you can find yourself watching your Ps and Qs to the point where it all gets a bit too clinical. 1
Ethan78 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I had a friend. He was great. Lovely guy. But he would never let me pay for a meal/ drinks when we went out, rarely let me drive. Last time I blocked his car in so I could drive... and so on and so forth. He didn't allow me to do what friends do. I.E. reciprocate. Last year I went over to see him for some support after I split up with my ex and also to check up on him as he was going through a tough phase at work... ended up having my arse slapped and gropped and him wanting to have casual sex with me... funnily enough none of my other friends have done that... I haven't spoken to him since. I miss him as he is great. He is fun and lovely and we get on well. But I am not going to lead him on and its seems as though the last 20 years has been him sitting and waiting rather than just being my friend. I actually feel really angry about that. He would have had a much better chance at both relationship and/ or friendship if he had just simply been my friend and been himself. How could you not know? If a man is insisting on buying you things then you must know he is doing it for a reason. Whether it is his own agenda or the conditioning we all have from society that a man pays for a woman in romantic situations it seems to be clear that they guy was into you but unassertive. I believe women are far more socially intuitive than men. When a woman has a guy hovering around her who buys stuff yet doesn't make a move, the chances are the woman is well aware of the dynamic involved in that "friendship". 1
Toodaloo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 How could you not know? If a man is insisting on buying you things then you must know he is doing it for a reason. Whether it is his own agenda or the conditioning we all have from society that a man pays for a woman in romantic situations it seems to be clear that they guy was into you but unassertive. I believe women are far more socially intuitive than men. When a woman has a guy hovering around her who buys stuff yet doesn't make a move, the chances are the woman is well aware of the dynamic involved in that "friendship". Thats the thing. He didn't hover. We would only be in contact every few months or so. I would do things for him as well which is why I thought he insisted on paying all the time, as a thank you, he earns a lot of money as he has 2 successful businesses that he runs and family money on top of that. He will often pay for others both males and females. I probably took less from him than anyone else as it was just meals out and I refused any financial help or "reward" when offered after giving him a hand. It was never flowers or chocolates etc, (he has been known to be extravagant with his thanks to others, cars expensive jewellery, watches etc). Nothing that could be seen as "romantic". Heck our last meal out was breakfast after I had helped out for a few hours on the farm and was covered in placenta and poo... Not exactly romantic... Lambing season gets busy! It just got really annoying over the years as I wanted to spoil him (as a friend) too (we are talking 15 years that we have been friends, we met through a girl he was dating that I knew and it has never at any point be considered as more than just friendship in all that time). Other male and female friends often pay for me the same way as I do with them. Its just this guy really didn't ever let me pay. Then we went out for a walk and were chatting, a general catch up as we hadn't seen each other for almost 6 months (I was very ill, he was working on setting up a new branch for one of his businesses and expanding the other). It was just after I had split up from my ex. He was having women troubles as well. It was a general moan and groan about the opposite sexes, a oh well better fish in the sea and lets both pull our socks up kind of chat. We have had these before. Same as we have had conversations about customers, business, ideas Defra being idiots etc... Next thing I know he has slapped my backside. I gave him the "that's not good look" which is normally enough when he is going over board or done something a bit stupid, let it slide. He isn't the most "subtle" of blokes and often sticks his foot in it so figured he was just trying to cheer me up in his own way, the comment that went with it was "Don't worry old girl, blokes will fancy you as you have a fantastic a***". Other men in my life come out with stuff like that with out it meaning anything. Then later on came another bum grope and the request of casual sex!
Author E-Squared Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Thats the thing. He didn't hover. We would only be in contact every few months or so. I would do things for him as well which is why I thought he insisted on paying all the time, as a thank you, he earns a lot of money as he has 2 successful businesses that he runs and family money on top of that. He will often pay for others both males and females. I probably took less from him than anyone else as it was just meals out and I refused any financial help or "reward" when offered after giving him a hand. It was never flowers or chocolates etc, (he has been known to be extravagant with his thanks to others, cars expensive jewellery, watches etc). Nothing that could be seen as "romantic". Heck our last meal out was breakfast after I had helped out for a few hours on the farm and was covered in placenta and poo... Not exactly romantic... Lambing season gets busy! It just got really annoying over the years as I wanted to spoil him (as a friend) too (we are talking 15 years that we have been friends, we met through a girl he was dating that I knew and it has never at any point be considered as more than just friendship in all that time). Other male and female friends often pay for me the same way as I do with them. Its just this guy really didn't ever let me pay. Then we went out for a walk and were chatting, a general catch up as we hadn't seen each other for almost 6 months (I was very ill, he was working on setting up a new branch for one of his businesses and expanding the other). It was just after I had split up from my ex. He was having women troubles as well. It was a general moan and groan about the opposite sexes, a oh well better fish in the sea and lets both pull our socks up kind of chat. We have had these before. Same as we have had conversations about customers, business, ideas Defra being idiots etc... Next thing I know he has slapped my backside. I gave him the "that's not good look" which is normally enough when he is going over board or done something a bit stupid, let it slide. He isn't the most "subtle" of blokes and often sticks his foot in it so figured he was just trying to cheer me up in his own way, the comment that went with it was "Don't worry old girl, blokes will fancy you as you have a fantastic a***". Other men in my life come out with stuff like that with out it meaning anything. Then later on came another bum grope and the request of casual sex! Is there a chance that you will talk to this guy? I have a similar story like this. I remember at some point, I started feeling attracted to a female friend. I remember one time I got a little fresh with her, which surprised her because I had never displayed any feeling of attraction to her before. That was a long time ago, by the way. We still talk at times, but I haven't felt anything like that towards her, though I am not opposed to anything developing between us. That was years ago, so there was nothing else to it. We're still friends.
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