Dating Foreign Women

[LookAtThisPOst]

I wouldn't go to college and pursue a field where there there are jobs that are NOT in real demand. Don't want to waste your tuition money on anything where you'd have to spend an entire year or so finding the job you want.

It's also more about who you know that gets you the job.

[Popsicle]

You are already in the land of opportunity, economically.

[normal person]

I echo the comments suggesting you should travel within the US and experience the cultures of the rest of your country before writing it off as a whole. Your problems sound very regional and the moving abroad plan sounds like it's got a lot of holes in it. The cultural differences between areas of the US are pretty vast. I grew up in New England and places like Florida, Colorado, Texas, Los Angeles, etc feel like different planets to me. What sort of culture are you looking for, exactly? People here might be able to help.

[Els]

I wish we could have a consolidated thread on this. It never ceases to amaze me how many people lump all the countries in the world (except their own, of course!) under the 'foreign' umbrella. There are so many differences between various regions, cultures, etc within the same country, let alone between different countries.

 

 

Edit: Also, as someone who has emigrated myself, I agree with sweetjasmine - emigration is crazy hard. Seriously. It is much more likely that you would meet a woman where you live and get along with her, if you invested even 1/5th of the effort and sacrifice that you would have to put into emigration and settling down in a new country.

 

That being said, it never hurts to travel and explore the world. If you get a partner out of it, well, that's a sweet bonus. Especially if you have never traveled by yourself before, there is no better time to start than now. At the very least you'll gain some valuable experience.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Elswyth

[ltjg45]

Well, if it helps, the country that I do have interest in going to right now would be Ukraine. That is the area that I am focusing on researching right now.

 

The only person I've known who married somebody who was actively looking for an international spouse was my uncle. He was a 50 something year old man living in Israel. He found a beautiful 20 something year old woman who was visiting from Thailand and married her. It may have been a sugar daddy type situation. The marriage didn't last very long because his wife had a hard time adjusting to the culture and moved back home.

 

If there's one thing that is constant among this topic is that the only guys that does go after women outside of their home country is those who is at least 40+ looking for a woman in their 20s.

 

That's something that disturbs me the most about it. I can't even see any woman, let alone a foreign woman, willing to accept a man at least 25 years older than her for romantic interests. Perhaps it just doesn't make any sense for me.

 

Speaking of cultures, you definitely want to research any place you're thinking of moving to. It's funny you talk about Americans being shady, untrustworthy, offering bad service, and being aggressive drivers. Being born in Israel, I can tell you that Israelis have a reputation of being much worse in that regard. I'm pretty sure most Israelis would think of Americans as being the exact opposite of what you've described. I know other countries have similar stereotypes as well, so there are definitely worse places than the US in those regards.

 

That is something I will have to keep in mind. Even then, I would most likely have to see it for myself.

 

It's not that I don't believe you.....I just can't fathom that there is a worse nightmare than the one I am still going through.

 

Nonetheless, thanks for the info.

 

I also think the culture in the US can differ a lot between different cities and towns. I've moved around a bit and definitely noticed differences. One place I was at for two years was full of workaholics who were strung out and tense. The next place I moved after that was full of people who were very laid back and friendly. It felt like a nice sweet breath of fresh air to move from one place to the other. Not that the place with the workaholics didn't have some good people as well, but you had to search them out. The next place I was at, being friendly and relaxed was much more of the cultural norm. So you may find a big difference in different parts of the US. I'd recommend researching the culture of different places and then visiting the ones that seem to interest you.

 

While this is basically my immediate plan for the time being, it is just a matter of finding out which parts would be better than this hellhole I am in right now.

 

Another concern is that of my immediate family. If they are aware that I am still in the United States, I have no clue how far they are willing to go to keep close to me. After all, when I am ready to leave, I have no intentions of going back. I want to destroy any and all traces of contact with them. I rather die alone than to live with them.

 

If you do decide you want to move to another country though, you may want to check out this page: Students | Institute of International Education (Sorry, I forgot how to link you.) It has a ton of information for US students who wish to study abroad, such as the programs and scholarships available. I think a student visa would be your only option if you wanted to stay in a foreign country for any length of time. You might also be able to do a shorter study abroad trip to get exposure to a different country.

 

Speaking of studying, I think it's a really great idea to look into going back to school now. I've known people in your situation who've kept saying they'll go back to school someday, but never do. The earlier you do it, the easier I think it is. By the time you have a family and other obligations, it's a lot harder to fit in school as well. I also think you'll have better luck finding women who aren't smokers, beer drinkers and filled with tattoos if you're pursuing a white collar profession.

 

Thank you for the link. That will be very helpful to me.

 

Another thing I have to come to terms with is that I will have to restrain my desire to find a partner for a few more years when I do go back to college since failure there will make the point of finding a woman basically pointless since I got nothing else left to offer but failure and no woman worth their weight wants that.

[ltjg45]

OP, have you actually looked at moving to other countries? What countries are you thinking of? Are you thinking you're just going to get there and they're gonna let you apply for citizenship or get an extended visa at will with no money or job already lined up?

 

I will admit that my "strategy" is a bit reckless on my part since it is pretty clear to me that I will have to save up a lot more than I expected if I want things to work out.

 

Right now, the only option I have is to go back to school.....

 

....which brings its own problems like the one I am about to quote under me.

 

I wouldn't go to college and pursue a field where there there are jobs that are NOT in real demand. Don't want to waste your tuition money on anything where you'd have to spend an entire year or so finding the job you want.

It's also more about who you know that gets you the job.

 

That is the part that scares me. Even though I know what fields I would be the most effective in, it means nothing if the jobs is not available and I wouldn't be surprised if it does take me almost a year after I graduate just to find a starting position. Of course, I will put in much more effort than that but I don't have the faith it will work as well as some people think.

 

And I have no clue what jobs is available enough to go to college for. There's no point asking those who is working at a college since they are more focused on getting you in there than making sure you will actually succeed, in and out of the classroom.

 

That, at the least, I do know. I had to learn that lesson the hard way too many times now.

 

I echo the comments suggesting you should travel within the US and experience the cultures of the rest of your country before writing it off as a whole. Your problems sound very regional and the moving abroad plan sounds like it's got a lot of holes in it. The cultural differences between areas of the US are pretty vast. I grew up in New England and places like Florida, Colorado, Texas, Los Angeles, etc feel like different planets to me. What sort of culture are you looking for, exactly? People here might be able to help.

 

Right now, I do need a quiet area. I can't operate with constant noise at all times. Makes my head hurt. If there is people around, I would prefer them to be trustworthy above all else. I am not too concerned with the type of person they are as long as they don't try to pull the wool over my eyes with lies.

 

I really don't know what else to ask for since I hasn't seen anything else outside of this mess.

 

Edit: Also, as someone who has emigrated myself, I agree with sweetjasmine - emigration is crazy hard. Seriously. It is much more likely that you would meet a woman where you live and get along with her, if you invested even 1/5th of the effort and sacrifice that you would have to put into emigration and settling down in a new country.

 

That being said, it never hurts to travel and explore the world. If you get a partner out of it, well, that's a sweet bonus. Especially if you have never traveled by yourself before, there is no better time to start than now. At the very least you'll gain some valuable experience.

 

If all I was expecting from a relationship is "getting along with her", I would have found one by now since I know there is at least 2 women that I have no attraction to that is trying to get my attention.

 

Unfortunately, I would need more than that if I ever get into my first relationship.

 

At the least, I will see about going back to college this year and making at least one trip out to Ukraine sometime this year. I won't put any more expectations on myself until those 2 has been started.

[girl-in-boots]

OK, I've read through this and to be honest you need a huge reality check.

 

I'm from the UK and have travelled extensively in the USA. Florida to Maine and then over to LA and back again, all by car. What I can tell you is that each State is like a different country they are so different so judging the whole of the US on your neighbourhood is unrealistic.

 

Every country in Europe has a large number of obese, heavy drinking, tattooed, smoking women (and men). Every country has the dog-eat-dog people. Cultures may be different but the basic human traits are universal.

 

You are an unskilled worker. As someone has already pointed out every country has more than enough of their own unskilled, unemployed citizens. Nobody is going to want you. I would be surprised if at the moment you even managed to get through passport control at the airport.

 

Non-EU students are welcomed here in the UK because they pay significantly higher fees than EU citizens.

 

I'm not trying to be mean but just honest. Life is going to be bad wherever you go too unless you get off your bum and sort yourself and your situation out. If you need to leave Jacksonville then leave but by the sounds of it you have a basic education, no employable skill, unable to drive or speak a foreign language and no savings. Not exactly high on either a dating or employment list.

 

Get off your game console and stop watching romantic chick flicks and believing that they are the way life goes and get out of your neighbourhood, you'll be surprised at the variety of people out there.

 

JMHO.

[Els]

If all I was expecting from a relationship is "getting along with her", I would have found one by now since I know there is at least 2 women that I have no attraction to that is trying to get my attention.

 

Unfortunately, I would need more than that if I ever get into my first relationship.

 

Okay, I'm not going to argue with you about semantics. Basically, what I am saying is that you seem to severely underestimate the difficulty of emigration.

 

At the least, I will see about going back to college this year and making at least one trip out to Ukraine sometime this year. I won't put any more expectations on myself until those 2 has been started.

Sounds like a good plan - always good to get out of your own backyard. Have you traveled by yourself before, ever? If you haven't, you might want to get your feet wet with one domestic trip before you fly to Ukraine.

 

If you don't want to do that, then at the very least, do your due research before going there. A mistake that some of the newbie travelers who were born and raised in developed countries often make, is that they take for granted that everything that they have in their home country (security, healthcare, human rights, freedom of speech/expression, amenities, etc) will be present wherever they travel. This is not always the case. While many are still lucky and get through fine, unfortunately there is the odd unlucky fellow who suffers for it.

 

So, explore and have fun, but do a lot of research and get some real-life advice before you go.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Elswyth

[mario_C]

And why the Ukraine? You do know they are still at war with Russia, right? ETA Ceasefire has been declared, but unstable and the point remains.

Why would you move to a country in that situation? Don't get me started on the awful poverty in East Europe.

Edited February 16, 2015 by mario_C
update!

[lino]

Won't try to discourage your plan but I can give some tips from my experiences travelling (I have been to Russia, Ukraine, Poland and Lithuania as well as all of ex Yugoslavia).

 

1. Definitely do visit Ukraine or any east European country first before making definite plans and investing a lot of money.

I've noticed you're a black American guy and you should note that racism towards non whites in Ukraine and eastern Europe in particular is a fair bit higher than average compared to the rest of Europe.

 

2. The women there will DEFINITELY be on average in much better shape than in America. I haven't checked the latest stats but I'm pretty sure the USA are still the fattest country on average and mine is the second. Diet (and food in general) in Europe is vastly superior to that in Australia and America and it shows in the people you see walking around.

 

3. Tattoo culture in eastern Europe is definitely less popular than it is western Europe and North America, Australia, etc.

Soccer hooligans are basically the only ones who really are into the tattoo scene there and most of those same people are the racist types as well.

 

4. Drinking culture in eastern Europe is HUGE so you'll meet a lot of women who like a drink. However they are much classier drunks than Anglo Saxon women are.

You never know, they might even get you to enjoy a drink

 

Definitely visit that region as it's a fascinating place and not at all like British and American propaganda makes it out to be.

 

People there are very warm and friendly (except for the extreme right wing racists) and a lot of them will be fascinated to get to know an American.

Many people (both men and women) in those countries were so eager to get to know me when they discovered I was Australian

 

Can also recommend you visit Serbia and Bosnia Hercegovina if anything just to see the women there as they're some of the most beautiful you'll ever see and Bosnian hospitality is very famous in the ex Yugoslav region.

 

Hope some of this helps

[lino]

Sorry, forgot to mention smoking.

 

Unfortunately much like the rest of Europe, the east still has a very popular smoking culture. It's still seen as 'super cool' there and I definitely came across many more smokers there than here in Australia but that is common all over Europe except maybe the UK.

[ltjg45]

Sounds like a good plan - always good to get out of your own backyard. Have you traveled by yourself before, ever? If you haven't, you might want to get your feet wet with one domestic trip before you fly to Ukraine.

 

If you don't want to do that, then at the very least, do your due research before going there. A mistake that some of the newbie travelers who were born and raised in developed countries often make, is that they take for granted that everything that they have in their home country (security, healthcare, human rights, freedom of speech/expression, amenities, etc) will be present wherever they travel. This is not always the case. While many are still lucky and get through fine, unfortunately there is the odd unlucky fellow who suffers for it.

 

So, explore and have fun, but do a lot of research and get some real-life advice before you go.

 

No, this is my first time traveling in any way.

 

As for your second paragraph, that brings me to a dilemma. I am currently on a Ukrainian dating site and, while I am sure a good amount of profiles is certainly fake or automated, I do feel that there is a couple of ladies there that is showing interest in me.

 

While I am not putting too much stock on it (I am not expecting anything at this moment from this), I also don't want to keep them waiting either, especially if I can meet them sooner

 

Should I bother going over to Ukraine anyway just to meet these women or just let that idea go to focus on getting traveling experience first?

 

After all, I do have some interest on these women.

 

And why the Ukraine? You do know they are still at war with Russia, right? ETA Ceasefire has been declared, but unstable and the point remains.

Why would you move to a country in that situation? Don't get me started on the awful poverty in East Europe.

 

Yes, I am aware of the war that is going on. I am also aware that the fighting is taking place at a good distance away from Kiev and at least 1 other well-known Ukrainian city (can't think of the name right now).

 

Besides, if I do this, I don't plan on leaving for another 3 more months at the least. If I feel it is not safe enough, then it is obvious that it will be delayed.

 

Won't try to discourage your plan but I can give some tips from my experiences travelling (I have been to Russia, Ukraine, Poland and Lithuania as well as all of ex Yugoslavia).

 

1. Definitely do visit Ukraine or any east European country first before making definite plans and investing a lot of money.

I've noticed you're a black American guy and you should note that racism towards non whites in Ukraine and eastern Europe in particular is a fair bit higher than average compared to the rest of Europe.

 

2. The women there will DEFINITELY be on average in much better shape than in America. I haven't checked the latest stats but I'm pretty sure the USA are still the fattest country on average and mine is the second. Diet (and food in general) in Europe is vastly superior to that in Australia and America and it shows in the people you see walking around.

 

3. Tattoo culture in eastern Europe is definitely less popular than it is western Europe and North America, Australia, etc.

Soccer hooligans are basically the only ones who really are into the tattoo scene there and most of those same people are the racist types as well.

 

4. Drinking culture in eastern Europe is HUGE so you'll meet a lot of women who like a drink. However they are much classier drunks than Anglo Saxon women are.

You never know, they might even get you to enjoy a drink

 

Definitely visit that region as it's a fascinating place and not at all like British and American propaganda makes it out to be.

 

People there are very warm and friendly (except for the extreme right wing racists) and a lot of them will be fascinated to get to know an American.

Many people (both men and women) in those countries were so eager to get to know me when they discovered I was Australian

 

Can also recommend you visit Serbia and Bosnia Hercegovina if anything just to see the women there as they're some of the most beautiful you'll ever see and Bosnian hospitality is very famous in the ex Yugoslav region.

 

Hope some of this helps

 

Sorry, forgot to mention smoking.

 

Unfortunately much like the rest of Europe, the east still has a very popular smoking culture. It's still seen as 'super cool' there and I definitely came across many more smokers there than here in Australia but that is common all over Europe except maybe the UK.

 

This is indeed very helpful for me. I do appreciate the information.

[carhill]

OP, if you're thinking of going to the CIS, google 'Russian women discussion' and get some on the ground experience from folks who've dated CIS women or are living there, either as ex-pats or locals, as well as from local women and wives who post. I used a historical version of this (before discussion forums existed) called the RWL (Russian women's list) and that's how I found an interpreter and driver and leads on apartments.

 

You'll get more volume in the big cities, like Kiev and Odessa, so more choices, something to consider if time is critical. If you're moving around, I found the overnight trains to be a great value. Buy a sleeping cabin and most destinations in-country were one sleep away. Most of my trips started in the evening and arrived in the early-mid morning and a SW (first class) cabin was about the same price as a coach Amtrak ticket here in the US.

 

Ukraine is a big country and there's lots of wonderful places to visit that are far from any conflicts with Russia. Also, it's far easier to visit now that one doesn't have to obtain a visa and register it with the OVIR.

 

If you're curious about the contacts you've received online, video chatting can help satisfy that curiosity. You can also check out RWD for known and trusted dating sites in country both paid and free. I used dating.ru and lavaplace, as well as paid local agencies, to meet ladies. Nowadays, there are far more sources of information and, yep, far more scams floating around so it's a process.

 

Myself, and I have no explanation, I never dated nor ran into any random ladies who smoked and most drank only wine, if anything. I visited during holiday 'party' periods so experienced the culture during their departure from everyday frugality and control. In fact, the only lady I knew who smoked was my interpreter in Odessa.

 

As mentioned, it's far easier to meet women here in the US so consider moving or dating outside of your local area. Unless there's something about the CIS culture that attracts you, beyond the photos of the 'models' who seem to be everywhere there, I'd not see it as a dating destination. I had to laugh because I saw a lot of those pictures in agency catalogs back in the day and the lawyer from Lviv I dated often made cruel jokes about 'models' using her hands and some choice Ukrainian words to describe them.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[sweetjasmine]

I spent several months in Russia on two occasions and specialized in Slavic languages, lit, and culture in grad school. Eastern Europe is not a very friendly place for anyone who's not white. Russia and Poland in particular are pretty bad. Parts of Ukraine are supposedly better. My one Nepalese classmate was jumped and beaten up in St. Petersburg, and my other two black classmates had people yelling slurs at them on a regular basis when they went out in public. My Russian host even warned me because she said I looked Armenian and might be targeted. If you go over there, I'd urge you to do your research and proceed with caution, keeping an eye out for your safety at all times.

 

The people are very friendly once they get to know you, but out in public, people are usually cold toward strangers. People don't really smile at each other or make small talk unless they're already acquainted. Once you do know someone, though, Eastern Europeans are some of the most caring people you'll meet. The problem is that when you're a foreigner alone out there, walking around in public feels like a very isolating experience.

 

Honestly, I'd recommend getting some traveling experience elsewhere first if you've never been out of the country, especially if you're interested in going to Ukraine, now, with the way things are over there. Or I'd recommend going with someone who's already been there, who knows at least some of the language, and who is reliable and trustworthy.

[Els]

No, this is my first time traveling in any way.

 

As for your second paragraph, that brings me to a dilemma. I am currently on a Ukrainian dating site and, while I am sure a good amount of profiles is certainly fake or automated, I do feel that there is a couple of ladies there that is showing interest in me.

 

While I am not putting too much stock on it (I am not expecting anything at this moment from this), I also don't want to keep them waiting either, especially if I can meet them sooner

 

Should I bother going over to Ukraine anyway just to meet these women or just let that idea go to focus on getting traveling experience first?

 

After all, I do have some interest on these women.

 

 

You should definitely gain some experience traveling on your own first. In your place I would do a domestic trip first, then an international trip to a safe country (Canada or Western Europe would be closest to you), then only to Ukraine if you really want to.

 

IMO you should not do OLD to seek Ukrainian women - the chances of a scam is far too high. And it's not just money or a green card that is at stake, but sometimes even your life. There was a recent case of a man from NZ who was scammed by a woman he met on OLD into traveling to Indonesia to meet her. He had drugs planted on him, was found by the police, and is most likely going to be executed by firing squad. https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/26145427/nz-man-may-face-death-penalty-in-indonesia/

 

I don't know what dangers specifically you will face in Ukraine as I have not been there, but you should know that you are one of the prime targets for such schemes, especially given your inexperience. So, gain some experience, go to Ukraine WITHOUT making arrangements on OLD, and preferably with a friend you know IRL. THEN you can meet Ukrainian women in Ukraine by going to bars and such.

[carhill]

I spent several months in Russia on two occasions and specialized in Slavic languages, lit, and culture in grad school. Eastern Europe is not a very friendly place for anyone who's not white. Russia and Poland in particular are pretty bad. Parts of Ukraine are supposedly better. My one Nepalese classmate was jumped and beaten up in St. Petersburg, and my other two black classmates had people yelling slurs at them on a regular basis when they went out in public. My Russian host even warned me because she said I looked Armenian and might be targeted. If you go over there, I'd urge you to do your research and proceed with caution, keeping an eye out for your safety at all times.

 

The people are very friendly once they get to know you, but out in public, people are usually cold toward strangers. People don't really smile at each other or make small talk unless they're already acquainted. Once you do know someone, though, Eastern Europeans are some of the most caring people you'll meet. The problem is that when you're a foreigner alone out there, walking around in public feels like a very isolating experience.

 

Honestly, I'd recommend getting some traveling experience elsewhere first if you've never been out of the country, especially if you're interested in going to Ukraine, now, with the way things are over there. Or I'd recommend going with someone who's already been there, who knows at least some of the language, and who is reliable and trustworthy.

OP, this is a very good point, if the CIS is still predominantly like this. It certainly was when I was there, less so in the seaport of Odessa but more so in the smaller towns and cities, especially in west Ukraine. I was shocked by some of the racist comments and perspectives regarding blacks and middle Eastern cultures.

 

Myself, my family has a strong Russian history and I look Russian, though my western dress and clear lack of proficiency in Ukrainian or Russian gave me away as not being a local. Once I learned to dress local, not make eye contact on the street and not speak in public, I did better. When I was there, other than my interpreter and the young lawyer from Lviv that I dated, I never heard English anywhere, public nor private. That's likely all changed today.

 

In any event, you can get the most up to date perspectives on such matters on the RWD and find out which places are more accepting of blacks and which are still predominantly racist. Most of my experience was in Ukraine with only a smattering in Russia and none really in the big cities like Moscow or St. Pete., generally further east and south towards the Stans...

 

Since you're young, another place to consider where language and cultural integration aren't a significant issue and you may find work as well, and it doesn't really cost any more to visit, is Australia. Heck I'd probably be living there if I weren't too old to immigrate. Since you're single, really the only thing holding you back is choice and means to exercise the choices. I learned how to travel cheap back when I was going to the CIS and that helped being able to afford to do the traveling I have on a blue collar income. Lots of information out there, both on that topic as well as places to go. There are women everywhere in the world.

[lino]

This is indeed very helpful for me. I do appreciate the information.

 

 

You're welcome. Good luck on your search

 

 

I'd also echo Carhill's suggestion of Australia. Your accent alone will get you a few opportunities and Australia will be 1000X less a culture shock.

However drinking and tattoos are huuuuge here! Smoking much less so.

 

 

Maybe even the Netherlands or one of the Nordic European countries would be worth a look in. They're generally very progressive and forward thinking societies and very welcoming people.

Chances of employment are likely a lot higher there too