How to not get friendzoned

[Phoe]

I truly don't think I give off an air of desperation IRL.

 

From the way folks talk to me, I get the impression they think I'm rather picky. I'm not gonna argue and say "Oh, actually, I'm not picky at all!", instead I just go with it.

 

I know for a fact my mom thinks I'm picky. She thinks I am turning down decent men left and right holding out for some unicorn. But I'm too embarassed to tell her otherwise.

 

Nobody has ever heard a word about my dating problems. I kept it secret until coming to this forum.

 

Nobody ever even knows whether or not I'm dating someone. People often comment about me being married or having a boyfriend, and I have to comment that I'm single and get shocked responses and "really?? why??", and of course, I have no answer to "why?" and just change the subject.

[Phoe]

Maturity and respect are very much in line with what I was expecting.

 

You challenge is to:

 

1. meet

2. identify

3. attract

 

mature and respectful men. Are you having trouble with step 1, 2, or 3?

 

My trouble is mostly with #3. I wasn't always good with #2 but have gotten better. #1 is not an issue.

 

#3 is my issue regardless of whether a man is mature or respectful. I have trouble attracting men period.

[xxoo]

Nobody has ever heard a word about my dating problems. I kept it secret until coming to this forum.

 

Nobody ever even knows whether or not I'm dating someone. People often comment about me being married or having a boyfriend, and I have to comment that I'm single and get shocked responses and "really?? why??", and of course, I have no answer to "why?" and just change the subject.

 

Not your friends?

 

Why not?

[xxoo]

My trouble is mostly with #3. I wasn't always good with #2 but have gotten better. #1 is not an issue.

 

#3 is my issue regardless of whether a man is mature or respectful. I have trouble attracting men period.

 

You had a thread about how men date the wrong women (immature women), while friendzoning you. That sounds like a #1 problem.

 

And it suggests a #2 problem if you think you're having a primarily #3 problem.

 

Mature and respectful is NOT the typical every-guy/gal. It's a gem. You have to know how to identify it in the rough.

[CrystalCastles]

CC, since breaking up with my ex, my standards have changed to include either having a job or being stable enough to pay their own bills.

 

I won't pay a man's bills again.

 

Excellent! I must have missed where you posted this but I haven't really been as active on here as usual. But that is very good to hear!

 

Let's say I had the same standards you have. I don't see how this simple fact would've gotten me more men asking me out, or an acceptance from my own approaches.

 

Had I from the get go refused to date men without a job, 8 out of the 9 who've asked me out would've gotten rejected. But I don't see how that would've gotten more men interested in me.

 

Because it shows that you value yourself and take pride in what you desire. Because it shows that you know what you're looking for, and you know exactly the kind of man who would make you happy. Healthy minded men want women who know what they want, who are willing to be patient and wait until the right man comes. You need to be better at screening men to avoid getting into abusive relationships. Being in abusive relationships wastes your time that you could be using to find good men.

 

Your dating record is not as bad as you think. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it is, but I assure you, you've found more men than quite a few of my female friends. I'm only on my first relationship right now, and you've already had 9! Maybe there are women who can get 100 dates in a month but that doesn't make you terrible if you're not that woman.

 

To get a boyfriend, you only need to get with one man. You need to find one that is worth your time. Someone who treats you kind, who is gentle and attentive and sweet. Someone who pushes you to be a better person and who supports you. Its not easy to find such a person, and having no standards and a poor screening process when you date will make it harder to find such a person. Don't focus so much on the numbers and how many times you've been hit on. Don't compare yourself to people on here or people you know. Your situation is personal and different.

 

Have you tried OLD again?

[RedRobin]

I do all of these things except wearing heels, because I have very bad ankles from injuries, and I keep the cleavage modest.

 

None of those things are enough... It takes so much more to gain interest from someone.

 

 

How is your posture? How do you carry yourself? Have you ever taken dance lessons? What about public speaking?

 

 

I always tell young men to take dance lessons... ballet in particular... because it gives you excellent posture and teaches you how to use your body. Other types of dance would work too.

 

 

Lots of guys have told me they were attracted to me because of how I carry myself. Heck, men hit on me even when I wear the equivalent of a burlap sack. and don't wear heels. and don't even wear makeup half the time.

[Phoe]

Darn. I've got a car payment coming up, too.

 

 

 

Think about this. If you know a man who will date just about any woman in the world, how special does it make you feel to know that he will also date you? Now, instead consider a guy that you know is rather picky about the women he dates. You find out this guy is interested in you. The first person will accept a relationship with anyone. The second wants a relationship with you. Which would you rather have?

 

If I don't tell a single soul about my dating preferences, never tell anyone any detail about my dating life, and nobody even knows whether or not I'm dating someone, how on earth would they know that I would be accepting of most men?

 

Unless I specifically hear man #1 talking about a variety of women, or lamenting about how he would date almost anyone, or unless I WATCH him date woman after woman just because he can, I would not know about his preferences. At all.

[Phoe]

Not your friends?

 

Why not?

 

There are maybe 4 people who specifically know I am single. But they don't know any details about it, just that I am not with anyone.

 

That would be my mother, my father, my best female friend, and my best guy friend.

 

I remember it was a while before my best guy friend found out I was in a relationship the last time and he was like "WTF, and I didn't know about this?"... he found out from my best female friend, who I told from the get go when I went on the first date, so that she would know where I was as a matter of safety.

 

I keep my love life private. I figure the less people know, the more protected my relationships will be. In a way it's my own version of self-respect. To me, it's a very private thing.

[Phoe]

Your dating record is not as bad as you think. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it is, but I assure you, you've found more men than quite a few of my female friends. I'm only on my first relationship right now, and you've already had 9! Maybe there are women who can get 100 dates in a month but that doesn't make you terrible if you're not that woman.

 

Well, I haven't had 9 relationships, just 9 men ask me out.

 

You've said that you have never had any shortage of men being interested in you. I have. Getting men interested at all is the hard part.

 

Of course, as far as any man is concerned, I AM patient. I've waited 6 years before... I date one man in 2013, and one in 2014.

 

And since no one IRL specifically knows this information, how can anyone make a judgment? If anyone ever finds out I'm dating someone, it's always few and far between.

 

If I was dating a new guy every month, and making this public information, wouldn't THAT look far more desperate and impatient than a girl who is very quiet about her dating life and only appears to date and enter relationships infrequently?

[Phoe]

How is your posture? How do you carry yourself? Have you ever taken dance lessons? What about public speaking?

 

 

I always tell young men to take dance lessons... ballet in particular... because it gives you excellent posture and teaches you how to use your body. Other types of dance would work too.

 

 

Lots of guys have told me they were attracted to me because of how I carry myself. Heck, men hit on me even when I wear the equivalent of a burlap sack. and don't wear heels. and don't even wear makeup half the time.

 

I went to a performing arts private school, so I grew up doing dance, theater, singing, instrumental music, etc. I danced all the way through college.

 

I'm tall and lanky so I'm not naturally as graceful as more petite girls, but POSTURE POSTURE POSTURE was pounded into my skull since I was 5 years old.

[Mangina]

I've never understood the standards thing, and still no one has been able to explain it logically.

 

I've been asked out by 9 men.

 

If I had standards that were "acceptable" to most here, maybe 1 would've met those standards.

 

How does that benefit me? I would've dated one man.

 

I fail to see how raising my standards would've got me MORE men. How would it be that by turning down all those 9 men, more would've stepped up that never did the first time around?

 

That makes 0 sense.

Logic and this place do not go together. I see people making references to things that very rare exceptions and make it sound as if it's normal. For example, there are no leagues my short fat bald friend dates a gorgeous girl. You have people who expect things for what they are while trying to improve and you you people who deny the world we live in. (many of which are on here) I will add that I think some people know the truth but don't like to say anything because they do not want to be mean or simply they don't bother to go against the grain of this forum.

 

phoe nobody on here can answer your question because nobody knows you or what you look like.

[xxoo]

There are maybe 4 people who specifically know I am single. But they don't know any details about it, just that I am not with anyone.

 

That would be my mother, my father, my best female friend, and my best guy friend.

 

I remember it was a while before my best guy friend found out I was in a relationship the last time and he was like "WTF, and I didn't know about this?"... he found out from my best female friend, who I told from the get go when I went on the first date, so that she would know where I was as a matter of safety.

 

I keep my love life private. I figure the less people know, the more protected my relationships will be. In a way it's my own version of self-respect. To me, it's a very private thing.

 

This is significantly different from most people. When a person never has anything at all to say about dating or relationships, people tend to wonder why not. Assumptions run wild, and not all are flattering.

 

Maybe you need to be more open in general, let people in, so that attraction can blossom. This sounds on the extreme end of closed off.

[somedude81]

I went to a performing arts private school, so I grew up doing dance, theater, singing, instrumental music, etc. I danced all the way through college.

 

Oh, I had no idea about that. Honestly I thought that you weren't that type. You never seemed like you were that feminine.

 

What kind of dancing have you done?

[Phoe]

I have not tried OLD again, but honestly would prefer not to. I created a random infoless photoless profile a while back just to do some research about the number of men in my area and the number of women...

 

I actually set preferences. I didn't do that my first time around, I just left it all open and accepted emails from anyone who wanted to talk to me.

 

This time I set some basic preferences. Men looking for women, 23-30 age range, within 25 miles, no drugs, no smoking, and limit the drinking to casual, and selected every "looking for" option EXCEPT hook ups.

 

About 7 profiles popped up. Not so great odds...

 

I did a search for women who were similar to me and about 40 popped up.

 

WAAAAAY more women than men here. And all of them were pretty.

 

The odds honestly seem horrible and I think I lucked out the first time getting a guy who actually fit what I was looking for, without having ever set preferences in the first place.

[Phoe]

Logic and this place do not go together. I see people making references to things that very rare exceptions and make it sound as if it's normal. For example, there are no leagues my short fat bald friend dates a gorgeous girl. You have people who expect things for what they are while trying to improve and you you people who deny the world we live in. (many of which are on here) I will add that I think some people know the truth but don't like to say anything because they do not want to be mean or simply they don't bother to go against the grain of this forum.

 

phoe nobody on here can answer your question because nobody knows you or what you look like.

 

Indeed I may never find a right answer.

 

And I wish folks could see how I am day to day, I wish they could see the happy go lucky me, the me that dances and sings "uptown funk" to herself at work, the me that laughs until she's crying, the me that smiles and talks with strangers at the market.

 

People only see my most vulnerable side here. And naturally, it's not very flattering.

 

Folks do know what I look like, I used to have a few photos but finally took them down after having had enough with rude comments about my looks.

[Mangina]

Indeed I may never find a right answer.

 

And I wish folks could see how I am day to day, I wish they could see the happy go lucky me, the me that dances and sings "uptown funk" to herself at work, the me that laughs until she's crying, the me that smiles and talks with strangers at the market.

 

People only see my most vulnerable side here. And naturally, it's not very flattering.

 

Folks do know what I look like, I used to have a few photos but finally took them down after having had enough with rude comments about my looks.

 

Are you over weight?

[Phoe]

This is significantly different from most people. When a person never has anything at all to say about dating or relationships, people tend to wonder why not. Assumptions run wild, and not all are flattering.

 

Maybe you need to be more open in general, let people in, so that attraction can blossom. This sounds on the extreme end of closed off.

 

If people ask me, I tend to answer honestly, unless it is particularly unflattering info like how I was single for 6 years. Nobody needs to know that.

 

But if someone makes an offhand comment about "your husband must be 'xyz'", I will quickly correct them and inform them that I am not married and am single. Which always gets a shocked look.

 

But I am not going to just offer up info. I'm not going to shout to the world that I am single and looking to date... THAT looks desperate!

 

But I believe in my love life being private, and especially if I am in a relationship, nobody else needs to know the details of it. That's between me and him.

[Phoe]

Are you over weight?

 

No, I'm in rather good shape. I work out several times a week and eat well. I find personal fitness very enjoyable.

[Mangina]

No, I'm in rather good shape. I work out several times a week and eat well. I find personal fitness very enjoyable.

 

What kind of rude comments would you get, did people tell you that you are ugly?

[xxoo]

If people ask me, I tend to answer honestly, unless it is particularly unflattering info like how I was single for 6 years. Nobody needs to know that.

 

But if someone makes an offhand comment about "your husband must be 'xyz'", I will quickly correct them and inform them that I am not married and am single. Which always gets a shocked look.

 

But I am not going to just offer up info. I'm not going to shout to the world that I am single and looking to date... THAT looks desperate!

 

But I believe in my love life being private, and especially if I am in a relationship, nobody else needs to know the details of it. That's between me and him.

 

Shouting to the world that you are single and looking to date is one extreme.

 

Only telling 4 people when you are in a relationship is another extreme.

 

Most people will share their excitement when dating someone new with a few friends and some close coworkers, introduce their dating partner to friends after a month or so, and integrate their dating partner into their life over the course of a few months. You'd attend events together publicly, and introduce each other as a couple. Coworkers would surely know you're dating someone at this point.

 

On the other hand, when single, it's not uncommon for that to enter conversation naturally with a casual friend or coworker. Even discussions of cooking can bring it up without trying--talking about cooking for one because you're single. It just comes up, unless you're avoiding the topic for some reason.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I truly don't think I give off an air of desperation IRL.

 

From the way folks talk to me, I get the impression they think I'm rather picky. I'm not gonna argue and say "Oh, actually, I'm not picky at all!", instead I just go with it.

 

I know for a fact my mom thinks I'm picky. She thinks I am turning down decent men left and right holding out for some unicorn. But I'm too embarassed to tell her otherwise.

 

Nobody has ever heard a word about my dating problems. I kept it secret until coming to this forum.

 

Nobody ever even knows whether or not I'm dating someone. People often comment about me being married or having a boyfriend, and I have to comment that I'm single and get shocked responses and "really?? why??", and of course, I have no answer to "why?" and just change the subject.

so what I think you are saying here is that you do not have one single real friend or family member who actually KNOWS you and you share your troubles with and what's really going on in your life??? THAT is something to look at right there. Maybe start there, if you can't share yourself with a friend it might have something to do with why you are cut off from men??

[Phoe]

Shouting to the world that you are single and looking to date is one extreme.

 

Only telling 4 people when you are in a relationship is another extreme.

 

Most people will share their excitement when dating someone new with a few friends and some close coworkers, introduce their dating partner to friends after a month or so, and integrate their dating partner into their life over the course of a few months. You'd attend events together publicly, and introduce each other as a couple. Coworkers would surely know you're dating someone at this point.

 

On the other hand, when single, it's not uncommon for that to enter conversation naturally with a casual friend or coworker. Even discussions of cooking can bring it up without trying--talking about cooking for one because you're single. It just comes up, unless you're avoiding the topic for some reason.

 

Well, none of my exes had any desire to meet friends or go to events with me, so that's one thing...

 

But I don't find singleness coming up in conversation. I don't talk about "cooking for one", I just talk about cooking. I talk about things I like to cook, recipes, etc. I don't talk about how many people I'm cooking for or what I'm gonna do with the extra servings since I'm single and the only one eating it... it just doesn't come up.

 

It's not an intentional avoidance, but maybe a natural desire to not turn everything into "I'm single"...

 

I see people who do that ALL THE TIME. I see facebook posts "gee I would love to go out on a date but no one is dating me right now!" and BOOM the girl gets asked out on 3 dates.

 

or "who wants to take me out? any takers?" and of course, a date is then set up.

 

I see all this "fishing for dates" and THAT to me, seems desperate. THAT to me says "I don't care who or when or where as long as someone takes me out Friday night"

 

That's not my style...

[Phoe]

What kind of rude comments would you get, did people tell you that you are ugly?

 

Common ones would be that I look fake or look like a bitch. I found it incredible that I could receive messages from men telling me they don't like my avatar photo and that I should change it. The heck?!?

 

I once got told on this forum that I could be mistaken for a man.

 

So, away the photos went.

 

But then I REALLY get mistaken for a man, haha.

[xxoo]

Well, none of my exes had any desire to meet friends or go to events with me, so that's one thing...

 

But I don't find singleness coming up in conversation. I don't talk about "cooking for one", I just talk about cooking. I talk about things I like to cook, recipes, etc. I don't talk about how many people I'm cooking for or what I'm gonna do with the extra servings since I'm single and the only one eating it... it just doesn't come up.

 

It's not an intentional avoidance, but maybe a natural desire to not turn everything into "I'm single"...

 

I see people who do that ALL THE TIME. I see facebook posts "gee I would love to go out on a date but no one is dating me right now!" and BOOM the girl gets asked out on 3 dates.

 

or "who wants to take me out? any takers?" and of course, a date is then set up.

 

I see all this "fishing for dates" and THAT to me, seems desperate. THAT to me says "I don't care who or when or where as long as someone takes me out Friday night"

 

That's not my style...

 

Yes, what you describe on FB is unappealing.

 

But what you describe for yourself is also unusual and extreme, and likely affects how many men see you as approachable and an attractive partner.

 

The fact that your partners didn't want to meet your friends or go places with you speaks to maturity and respectfulness.

[WonderKid]

To never get in a friendzone you need to not be an orbit.