ktya Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 This ones a bit out of left field. I got this new room renter. When she moved in we got to talking, she is polyamorous (multiple relationships), her job is that she is a webcam girl and she escorts a bit on the side. When she showed up she was with this guy who i thought was her boyfriend who paid her rent but turned out he responded to an ad she placed looking for a sugar daddy. She told me she cut him off because he was getting too clingy, and needy or clingy guys really turn her off. I was eating lunch with her yesterday and we got into this odd conversation that got weirder as time went on. Bear in mind im 38 and shes 19. I was arguing with a girl im talking to by text and i expressed my frustration, and suggested that maybe the girl was PMSing because the argument was over nothing and came out of nowhere. The rooomer then said that she was offended by that comment and from conversations i have had with other people that she thought i was misogynistic and at times offensive, mostly centered around that if i dont have sex in 3 dates i walk, or that i make generalizations about women, and suggesting that i hate women and only view them as useful for sex. I explained that i dont hate women at all, but as a guy, in dating there are women who will kite you along forever until you are friend zoned. She even took offense to the term "friend zoned" and said again that was being misogynistic. It wasnt an argument but as it ended it left me feeling like, wtf?? Did that conversation just happen? I have had 19 years of back to back serious relationships, as long as this girl has been alive. And whenever i make reference that sometimes women string men along for the gifts and money while being courted, this girl who literally makes a living doing just that says that suggesting it is offensive, and im making general references not at all talking about her. Its no big deal i just found it so odd. I tried to show her dating from a males point of view but she just couldnt grasp it. I could see her taking offense if she was some goody two shoes naiive girl who thought life should be like a disney movie, but this girl is taking her clothes off for 20 guys at a time and having sex for money and bilking a sugar daddy. In a way shes the epitome. I dont know. LOL
No Limit Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Looks like she's happy in her world of delusions. At least she earns money this way.
Author ktya Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 Yeah maybe the PMS comment set her off, our conversations have never drifted there. Like i said it wasnt an argument or anything. It was just the irony. But i think this highlights a wider issue. Misogyny is defined as having a *hatred* of women, and its in vogue to throw this word around. Men need mental space to express things in our language and from our point of view without being branded as hating women or the like. I get that until later in life women often have a hard time grasping that women have sex with men they love and men love women they are having sex with and for a 19 year old to grasp that concept might be a bit of a stretch - especially if shes doing the stringing.
Woggle Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 You would have an easier arguing with a plant than with some people. 1
Radu Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 ktya ... you are arguing with a 19 yr old who is into the PC police when it suits her. She strips for money on webcam and borderline prostitutes herself. Off-course the rationalizations she does are so ... far-fetched. And with time she will get more misandristic. I am more worried about something else ktya. You should learn to shut your mouth by now. You had major problems with your last gf; you live in a country that turned men into 2nd class citizens and you get into these arguments ? And you just accepted this judgemental prostitute [with a misandristic PC police streak] as your renter ? What is it with these choices ? Stop treating these ppl like friends ... stop talking opinions with them. Mirror their bull**** so that the relationships are good with them. 1
Author ktya Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 Now now radu. It wasnt an argument, just a really odd conversation, it was quite calm. But the "PC when it suits her" vein of your comment does ring true. My reason for posting was not because it was some blowout, but rather exposing how easily sexist accusations can be tossed around. I was accused of objectifying women for sex by a woman who makes her very living by being objectified for sex, the conversation truly left me scratching my head. Im not upset by it i am chuckling. This is what feminists have taught todays generation of young women.
spiderowl Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I suppose she separates out her 'work' and her private life, but yes it does seem a bit hypocritical when she makes a living out of sugar daddies. It's not good form to dismiss a woman's complaints as being due to PMS. Criticisms can come out of nowhere because they've been building up for a while or only just become conscious in that form to the person. Someone I know lives a very bizarre lifestyle (by my standards), is polyamorous as well as lesbian. She shocks me sometimes with her comments about things people wouldn't normally express and other times she says some very wise things. Maybe you would learn something from listening to this young woman (and vice versa).
Author ktya Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 Oh i listened. Like i said it wasnt an argument. I said im open to constructive criticism when she said she didnt mean to offend me. I just found it right odd. My comments were tame, i wasnt woman bashing, venting, or carrying on about how all i want out of a chick is to get laid or anything. If i was carrying on i could see those comments, but it was quite tame. Probably the PMS comment that got the conversation going in that direction but still. Misogynist? I think its common knowledge that PMS can make women loopy sometimes.
Maleficent Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Misogynist? I think its common knowledge that PMS can make women loopy sometimes. True. But using this as an excuse to disregard a woman's opinion or feelings, and blaming a woman's PMS whenever she doesn't agree with you or does something you don't like? At the very least it's sexist. 3
Miss Starlight Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Sorry but I've read nothing in your post that suggests she's a hypocrite and she is certainly not the epitome of the type of women you're describing, it's a shame you can't distinguish the difference. 1. Webcam girl & escort - so what? Is she tricking these men into parting with their money or deceiving them in anyway? As far as I can see they're all willing participants. 2. Sugar daddy - she placed an ad for a sugar daddy and someone VOLUNTARILY responded so what's the problem? By placing an ad, she set out the T&C's of the arrangement from the get go. The guy wasn't tricked or deceived in anyway - if you reply to a sugar daddy ad you know what you're getting and it's not going to be a long term relationship with marriage and kids. In fact, she got rid of him when he got clingy which goes to show she's actually quite honest, she didn't "kite" or "string" him along for gifts or money, when she knew he was starting to get involved beyond their arrangement she ended it. "And whenever i make reference that sometimes women string men along for the gifts and money while being courted, this girl who literally makes a living doing just that says that suggesting it is offensive, and im making general references not at all talking about her" This statement is why you come across as a misogynist to me. Firstly you don't see the difference between your renter who seems to be openly honest with a man from the outset and a women who purposely uses and deceives a man for material gain. Your renter is NOT courting these men nor is she stringing them along, I very much doubt her webcam viewers, clients and sugar daddy believe their arrangements are leading to everlasting love so no, she does not make her living in the same way as you state. Personally if a man expected me to have sex within 3 dates or before I was ready then I would give him the boot as to me that would show he's only after sex and not interested in knowing me unless he was getting something. On the flip side though, I would pay for the second date if he picked up the first or be happy to go dutch and I certainly would not be accepting gifts or money if we were not in a relationship. 3
Author ktya Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 True. But using this as an excuse to disregard a woman's opinion or feelings, and blaming a woman's PMS whenever she doesn't agree with you or does something you don't like? At the very least it's sexist. Actually if you read what i posted: 1. I was not directing the PMS comment at her, it was a girl i was arguing with over text message 2. She actually was at that time of the month and PMS was actually the likely culprit for an argument over nothing out of nowhere As for starlight... Yes im sure escorts, camgirls, and women seeking sugar daddies always tell the guy up front that they think hes scum and they only want him for his money. Guys eat that **** right up and open their wallets. Give me a break.
Maleficent Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Actually if you read what i posted: 1. I was not directing the PMS comment at her, it was a girl i was arguing with over text message 2. She actually was at that time of the month and PMS was actually the likely culprit for an argument over nothing out of nowhere It doesn't matter who the comment was directed at. I'm just explaining why it bothers us when we hear the PMS excuse. lol at the use of 'likely' culprit. It is your perception that she was the culprit and I bet she sees it differently. But you will probably not see this because you know, PMS. Which kind of proves my point.
ufo8mycat Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Actually if you read what i posted: 1. I was not directing the PMS comment at her, it was a girl i was arguing with over text message 2. She actually was at that time of the month and PMS was actually the likely culprit for an argument over nothing out of nowhere PMS doesn't usually occur at "that time of the month" It is Pre-Menstrual. So usually proceeds it, and not everyone has symptoms. But some people are slower at learning which hill to die on than other. Regardless, I find the dismissing of a woman as irrational and 'pmsing' dismissive and disrespectful. Particularly one you are in a relationship with. It is saying that because you have your period your concerns are not valid. So it wouldn't surprise me that your housemate called you on it, even if not directed at her. 2
Author ktya Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 PMS doesn't usually occur at "that time of the month" It is Pre-Menstrual. So usually proceeds it, and not everyone has symptoms. But some people are slower at learning which hill to die on than other. Regardless, I find the dismissing of a woman as irrational and 'pmsing' dismissive and disrespectful. Particularly one you are in a relationship with. It is saying that because you have your period your concerns are not valid. So it wouldn't surprise me that your housemate called you on it, even if not directed at her. The woman i was talking to actually will be having period in a few days, so.i am being.accurate.
Woggle Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 The PMS comment was maybe out of line but I know how it is deal with somebody where nothing you do is right and anything you say gets you in trouble. Better off just not dealing with her. 1
ufo8mycat Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 You were having a text message argument and shrieked PMS! because you didn't think it was worth arguing about. Whatever it was. There are more effective ways to close the door on arguments you don't want to have. There isn't really a male equivalent of PMS, other than just being an asshat I guess. So if not misogynist it is at the very least sexist to pull that card rather than use actual communication skills to get to the bottom of the issue. I think your judgement of your housemate actually speaks volumes about your perception of women. 4
Maleficent Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 You were having a text message argument and shrieked PMS! because you didn't think it was worth arguing about. Whatever it was. There are more effective ways to close the door on arguments you don't want to have. There isn't really a male equivalent of PMS, other than just being an asshat I guess. So if not misogynist it is at the very least sexist to pull that card rather than use actual communication skills to get to the bottom of the issue. I think your judgement of your housemate actually speaks volumes about your perception of women. His posts around the forums actually speak volumes about his perception of women. 1
devilish innocent Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 The reason the PMS comment sounds sexist is because it's implying that a man wouldn't behave that way. Also, most women will assume that a guy who dumps a woman who won't have sex by the third date is using women for sex. That might not always be the case, but that's the assumption. Your comment about women stringing men along for gifts also seems to put all of the blame on the woman when it's the man's choice to accept the situation. I'm not surprised that somebody in her situation takes offense to your comments. She wants women to have the freedom to live the life they want without being judged for it. Not to be viewed as evil seductresses, or sex objects, or slaves to their bodies reactions. She probably appreciates the money she's making but is tired of men placing her in these roles.
Miss Starlight Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Yes im sure escorts, camgirls, and women seeking sugar daddies always tell the guy up front that they think hes scum and they only want him for his money. Guys eat that **** right up and open their wallets. Give me a break. Wow what flawed logic you have, obviously you're unable to put together an objective argument so yes you do come across as a misogynist. Firstly, what I said was in direct response to what you posted, you said your renter PLACED AN AD for a sugar daddy so yes that guy obviously did "eat that **** up and opened his wallet", he knew what he was getting. No one placed a gun to his head and made him respond to her ad or pay her rent, he made that choice. There are multiple sugar daddy websites out there where men actively create profiles and offer to "take care" of women, sometimes just for pictures or chat - nothing physical. Whether you want to admit it or not, there are men who actively get into these "relationships" out of choice and as long everyone's up front about their expectations then I don't see a problem. Secondly, why do you think people (both men and women) become cam performers or escorts? Do you think they do it for anything other than money? Are you really trying to say clients (again both men and women) are not aware these people are providing the service for money and that money is expected? I'd pretty much guarantee money and payment terms are discussed up front so there's no deception or trickery involved. I'm not saying cam performing or escorting is right or morally acceptable but let's not kid ourselves that both parties are not aware of the T&C's up front. As to whether escorts and cam performers (both men and women) think their clients are scum is irrelevant, I would hazard a guess that just as many of their clients think that they're the ones who are scum / whores / insert description of choice. Having said all that, unfortunately there are immoral women (AND MEN) who will string people along in relationships and take advantage of them for their own gain whether it's for money, material goods, sex or just an ego boost, I know as I've been on the receiving end of being used like that. My ex told me he loved me and wanted to marry me but left soon after he got what he wanted (I was stupid and paid off his large debt) so I get it. My next door neighbour is a rich, highly sexed older women and as a toyboy who is 30 years her junior, she gets sex and a companion for nights out and he gets gifts, holidays and his college tuition paid. Both my ex and my neighbours toyboy received money however there's a difference between the toyboy (and your renter) who was up front and openly asks for money in exchange for services (the morality of which is another debate) and someone who actively sets out to deceive, manipulate, lie and cause intentional hurt for their own gain, like my ex.
ascendotum Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 You were having a text message argument and shrieked PMS! because you didn't think it was worth arguing about. Whatever it was. There are more effective ways to close the door on arguments you don't want to have. There isn't really a male equivalent of PMS, other than just being an asshat I guess. So if not misogynist it is at the very least sexist to pull that card rather than use actual communication skills to get to the bottom of the issue. The thing is as in Ktya's situation these arguments and bitchy attitude are over minor things at that time of month. Often small stuff that gets blown up out of proportion. I agree telling a woman who is arguing with you over something that shouldn't be an issue that its due to her PMS is not going to go down well, but its often very much true, and its not sexist to realize that. A guy cant pull the pms card on all women and also especially when its not even near that time of month. That's sexist. Even if the woman does suffer from pms just summarily dismissing any concerns/issues she might have around that time of month as 'you're just pms'ing' is not the way to go, but you cant jump to that conclusion on this post. When the argument has come out of nowhere and is over something stupid/over-exaggerated/falsely perceived, it can really test your patience when it comes to communication. Some guys will find just saying she pms'ing and not getting sucked into a bigger shyte fight is the better way for them.
clia Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 I was arguing with a girl im talking to by text and i expressed my frustration, and suggested that maybe the girl was PMSing because the argument was over nothing and came out of nowhere. The rooomer then said that she was offended by that comment and from conversations i have had with other people that she thought i was misogynistic and at times offensive, mostly centered around that if i dont have sex in 3 dates i walk, or that i make generalizations about women, and suggesting that i hate women and only view them as useful for sex. I've honestly only seen young guys -- like teenagers or guys in their very early 20s -- resort to blaming an argument on a woman's PMS. It seems strange and immature to me to hear a 38 year old man try to blame that. It's also incredibly insulting, as if a woman loses all control of her senses prior to starting her period (oh, I do declare, Scarlett!), so I don't blame your roomer for getting offended.
ascendotum Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not surprised that somebody in her situation takes offense to your comments. She wants women to have the freedom to live the life they want without being judged for it. Not to be viewed as evil seductresses, or sex objects, or slaves to their bodies reactions. She probably appreciates the money she's making but is tired of men placing her in these roles. On one of those, she most certainly can't object....being viewed as a sex object. She is, and she is actively promoting herself as such, and cashing in on it (with the older SD and with the horny subscribers to her cam sex channel). She has the freedom to exploit her sex appeal/body for her living, and people (not just males) have the freedom to judge her on such unconventional activities, as many people seem to love to do (judge others) 1
Radu Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Now now radu. It wasnt an argument, just a really odd conversation, it was quite calm. But the "PC when it suits her" vein of your comment does ring true. My reason for posting was not because it was some blowout, but rather exposing how easily sexist accusations can be tossed around. I was accused of objectifying women for sex by a woman who makes her very living by being objectified for sex, the conversation truly left me scratching my head. Im not upset by it i am chuckling. This is what feminists have taught todays generation of young women. Do you remember what the last one did to your business ? Do you remember having turned everyone against you ? You are playing with fire again. In your country someone like her [19yr old female brat with an opinion] is listened to and validated ... do you want another conspiracy amongst your tenants ? How many of these will your landlord put up with ? How many of these will your neighbours put up with ? You need to learn to present yourself in a better light and you are not doing that at all. I know you because i followed your threads and i don't think for a second you are a mysoginist. If anything you actually suffered at the hands of women ... but the ppl who see you outside of these don't see this ? It's like in a court house out there when it concerns public opinion ... the biggest mouthpiece and the most manipulative piece of sh*t wins ... not the one with righteousnes on his side. And in terms of these you cannot compete with 19yr old female even if she is a borderline prostitute. You are inviting disaster into your life again.
sweetjasmine Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 And whenever i make reference that sometimes women string men along for the gifts and money while being courted, this girl who literally makes a living doing just that says that suggesting it is offensive, and im making general references not at all talking about her. If she's putting out an ad for a sugar daddy and working as an escort, she's not stringing anyone along. She's being 100% honest, and those men know EXACTLY what they're getting. It's not hypocritical of her to take issue with your behavior unless you're also being 100% honest about your intentions. Are you?
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