What am I thinking of?

[spiderowl]

It might sound a stupid title but I don't know, honestly. I've been chatting with a guy I actually first met a few years ago. At the time, we didn't take it further because the time wasn't right (long story), but recently he got in touch again and I thought why not see where it goes. He's wanted to talk every night but, feeling a bit crowded, I've put him off a couple of times. I had some doubts about things, mainly about him sometimes not seeming to listen to me, but given that he was taking the trouble to make contact and phone me and it wasn't always the case, I just thought wait and see how it goes.

 

He has suggested meeting a few times and at first I felt we needed to talk a bit more before meeting, then something cropped up which took me away for a while so I couldn't have met him. Finally, I thought it was time and arranged to meet him. I was truly intending to meet him but little things were nagging at the back of my mind. Something happened the day before (nothing to do with him) which put me in a really down mood and I knew if I spoke to him I couldn't be very upbeat and he'd want to know what was wrong. I don't know what happened but I felt there was no way I could talk to him on a more intimate level like this because of the naggings things and the feeling that he was getting too involved. I didn't want to encourage him to become further involved when I was having doubts. So, I pretty much cut off from him, said I couldn't talk, then wouldn't talk later on, or the next day. Then by way of explanation texted to tell him it was because I felt uncertain.

 

Well, I think I really hurt him. I knew it was not the best thing to do. I have had similar problems before, panicking when a guy seems to be getting more emotionally involved. I remain uncertain, he can't understand what's going on, eventually I do something that makes him back off and then I (or he) finally pulls the plug. In this case my explanation didn't go down well and he said goodbye.

 

I feel awful that I've hurt someone who had already invested so much time and also I don't know if I've done the right thing for me either. It's an awful way to behave and in his shoes I would have done the same thing. This is a pattern I can't seem to avoid. If a guy does something I find doubtful, it sticks in my head and nags me. Eventually, I react to these nagging doubts by kicking him away. I feel so bad that I've hurt a very decent guy who was polite, respectful and genuine. I felt I would be misleading him. Ideally, I would like time to get to know him and find out if the niggling doubts were resolved but at the same time I can't ask him to spend time with me, become more involved, and then get dumped after even more emotional investment. It's just not fair on him, hence why I came clean about having some doubts.

 

Maybe I should just give up on guys altogether and resolve myself to being alone for the rest of my life. I can't seem to find a situation in which I feel certain that I'm going in the right direction. It's not acceptable for me to be hurting people like this.

 

Any insights/advice would really be appreciated. I can't believe I've done this again.

Edited February 7, 2015 by spiderowl

[gaius]

You still have needs spider even if you're not comfortable with an actual intimate relationship with a guy. =/ The need to feel wanted, the need just to have someone to talk to, etc etc. And you shouldn't feel ashamed for pursuing that because a guy ends up getting emotionally invested before you do. That's on him, not you.

 

You had no obligation to him because he was polite and respectful. And if he's older than 15 he should know that by now. So don't feel guilty.

[spiderowl]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply gaius. I would love to believe it's OK to do what you say but I do feel a sense of responsibility to the guy. He would have had to travel some distance to see me and had already telephoned a lot. If I then encourage him to meet and maybe more, surely he could reasonably say I've 'led him on', if I do come to the conclusion we are not suited? It seem the least a guy can expect is that I would be confident that we had a good chance of it working out, otherwise why would he bother?

 

At the same time, I know it's unrealistic to expect everything to be perfect and for him to be the perfect guy from the start. I'd have to be pretty good at ignoring reality!

[gaius]

I don't think so spider, as long as you don't completely lie to him. If he knows about your history with guys and that you're feeling doubtful and he decides to take a shot and come anyway, well that's also on him. You can't go around denying yourself the pleasure of a guy pursuing you out of some sort of guilt because it's not going to go all the way for him. Being made to feel wanted like that is almost as important a need as food and water.

[spiderowl]

Further to the above, what the hell can one say in a situation like this? Is there a way of expressing doubt without hurting someone? Has anyone ever done this and had it work out in the end?

 

When I was younger, I would have had a very idealistic view of a guy and probably dismissed anything that didn't fit with my rosy view of what he was like. Unfortunately, being older and wiser, I find I can't do that. I doubt any guy would assume I was the perfect partner for them either, so how does one get round this issue of learning about the other person and not giving up from the start like I tend to do?

[spiderowl]

I don't think so spider, as long as you don't completely lie to him. If he knows about your history with guys and that you're feeling doubtful and he decides to take a shot and come anyway, well that's also on him. You can't go around denying yourself the pleasure of a guy pursuing you out of some sort of guilt because it's not going to go all the way for him. Being made to feel wanted like that is almost as important a need as food and water.

 

That's an interesting perspective but what a luxury to be able to think of it as OK to seek without looking at the consequences and potential hurt. I do feel responsible. Do other women feel like me?

[gaius]

As my last comment I'll say why don't you just tell him the truth, that since your divorce you've always pushed guys away. Every guy, that he's no exception really. And if he'd like to keep pursuing you you'd enjoy still talking to him and maybe even meeting up but it might be unrealistic to expect it to go anywhere past that. Or whatever the truth is if I got any of your history wrong.

 

Most guys can sense if something is going somewhere, he might at the end of the day be a guy who doesn't want it to go somewhere. So while he feels hurt on some level it might be instinctively what he was actually seeking. The different forces thing. And if that's the case then it's a relationship where you're both getting what you're looking for. Isn't that a good thing? Why deny him a chance at what he wants if that's the case?

 

I think most people are like that, they know what they're getting into on an instinctual level, so there's not much to ever feel guilty about really. Good luck with whatever you choose to do spider, I gotta go.

[compulsivedancer]

You're allowed to talk to the guy about this stuff. You can tell him you have doubts. It's okay to let your guard down a little and be vulnerable.

 

I know it's a little scary to have someone travel a long distance to see you, but how else can you find out if there is something there? If you had discussed it with him and made sure that he knew his visit wasn't a promise of anything in particular, then it would have been up to him whether to make that call.

 

Then you aren't giving him false hope, but you still have the opportunity to connect with him. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't. Like gaius said, he knows what he's getting into. Even if he hopes for the best, he knows it might not turn out that way.

 

If you never let anyone in, you'll never be able to have a relationship again. Which is fine - you don't have to have one. But don't sabotage the possibility if that's what you're looking for.

[GemmaUK]

It might sound a stupid title but I don't know, honestly. I've been chatting with a guy I actually first met a few years ago. At the time, we didn't take it further because the time wasn't right (long story), but recently he got in touch again and I thought why not see where it goes. He's wanted to talk every night but, feeling a bit crowded, I've put him off a couple of times. I had some doubts about things, mainly about him sometimes not seeming to listen to me, but given that he was taking the trouble to make contact and phone me and it wasn't always the case, I just thought wait and see how it goes.

 

He has suggested meeting a few times and at first I felt we needed to talk a bit more before meeting, then something cropped up which took me away for a while so I couldn't have met him. Finally, I thought it was time and arranged to meet him. I was truly intending to meet him but little things were nagging at the back of my mind. Something happened the day before (nothing to do with him) which put me in a really down mood and I knew if I spoke to him I couldn't be very upbeat and he'd want to know what was wrong. I don't know what happened but I felt there was no way I could talk to him on a more intimate level like this because of the naggings things and the feeling that he was getting too involved. I didn't want to encourage him to become further involved when I was having doubts. So, I pretty much cut off from him, said I couldn't talk, then wouldn't talk later on, or the next day. Then by way of explanation texted to tell him it was because I felt uncertain.

 

Well, I think I really hurt him. I knew it was not the best thing to do. I have had similar problems before, panicking when a guy seems to be getting more emotionally involved. I remain uncertain, he can't understand what's going on, eventually I do something that makes him back off and then I (or he) finally pulls the plug. In this case my explanation didn't go down well and he said goodbye.

 

I feel awful that I've hurt someone who had already invested so much time and also I don't know if I've done the right thing for me either. It's an awful way to behave and in his shoes I would have done the same thing. This is a pattern I can't seem to avoid. If a guy does something I find doubtful, it sticks in my head and nags me. Eventually, I react to these nagging doubts by kicking him away. I feel so bad that I've hurt a very decent guy who was polite, respectful and genuine. I felt I would be misleading him. Ideally, I would like time to get to know him and find out if the niggling doubts were resolved but at the same time I can't ask him to spend time with me, become more involved, and then get dumped after even more emotional investment. It's just not fair on him, hence why I came clean about having some doubts.

 

Maybe I should just give up on guys altogether and resolve myself to being alone for the rest of my life. I can't seem to find a situation in which I feel certain that I'm going in the right direction. It's not acceptable for me to be hurting people like this.

 

Any insights/advice would really be appreciated. I can't believe I've done this again.

 

 

When you say your explanation didn't go down well, what was it he said in reaction to that?

 

 

Was he perfectly OK with not arranging to meet when he asked several times and then when you were unable to meet as you were away?

 

 

I've bolded a few other parts here too.

My last ex was controlling and abusive and I now believe that he was also narcissistic.

However, the too many calls, feeling over crowded, not listening etc were all traits he showed in the beginning and these all got progressively worse as we dated.

I tried to set boundaries for texts and calls so that I could have a more time to just do things for myself (housework, eating, general stuff like that) to which he would simply say 'no'.

Because he refused the boundaries he would then be ultimately available always and if I knew I was not going to be free for a call and let him know that then he would say all the things to make me feel guilty.

 

 

Pretty soon I quit with the guilty feeling as by his actions I could see he was not at all considerate of me, my life, my work, that I had a house to run.

He actually told me word for word that 'I don't have any consideration for you having to do things like housework as I have never had a house to look after'.

 

 

I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty. I think you were listening to your instincts.

[salparadise]

He has suggested meeting a few times and at first I felt we needed to talk a bit more before meeting, then something cropped up...

 

I felt there was no way I could talk to him on a more intimate level like this because of the naggings things and the feeling that he was getting too involved. I didn't want to encourage him to become further involved when I was having doubts.

 

Have you ever actually seen and talked to this guy in person?

 

You sure do have yourself in a spin cycle over a guy that you're just chatting with. Why don't you meet him and see how it goes? You don't have to make any major commitment to meet for coffee and have a conversation.

 

How old are the two of you?

[spiderowl]

As my last comment I'll say why don't you just tell him the truth, that since your divorce you've always pushed guys away. Every guy, that he's no exception really. And if he'd like to keep pursuing you you'd enjoy still talking to him and maybe even meeting up but it might be unrealistic to expect it to go anywhere past that. Or whatever the truth is if I got any of your history wrong.

 

Most guys can sense if something is going somewhere, he might at the end of the day be a guy who doesn't want it to go somewhere. So while he feels hurt on some level it might be instinctively what he was actually seeking. The different forces thing. And if that's the case then it's a relationship where you're both getting what you're looking for. Isn't that a good thing? Why deny him a chance at what he wants if that's the case?

 

I think most people are like that, they know what they're getting into on an instinctual level, so there's not much to ever feel guilty about really. Good luck with whatever you choose to do spider, I gotta go.

 

That's really useful, thanks. Perhaps I am taking too much responsibility for the other person.

[spiderowl]

You're allowed to talk to the guy about this stuff. You can tell him you have doubts. It's okay to let your guard down a little and be vulnerable.

 

I know it's a little scary to have someone travel a long distance to see you, but how else can you find out if there is something there? If you had discussed it with him and made sure that he knew his visit wasn't a promise of anything in particular, then it would have been up to him whether to make that call.

 

Then you aren't giving him false hope, but you still have the opportunity to connect with him. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't. Like gaius said, he knows what he's getting into. Even if he hopes for the best, he knows it might not turn out that way.

 

If you never let anyone in, you'll never be able to have a relationship again. Which is fine - you don't have to have one. But don't sabotage the possibility if that's what you're looking for.

 

Thanks, yes I suppose I can. It seems an awful thing to do when they are being positive, but at least it's honest.

[spiderowl]

Thanks for your thoughts GemmaUK. Actually, he was OK about not meeting and so on. He was understanding. I'm also alert for someone controlling. I really don't need that. It's good to be reminded to be aware. I'm sorry you had such an experience; must be very demoralising.

[spiderowl]

Have you ever actually seen and talked to this guy in person?

 

You sure do have yourself in a spin cycle over a guy that you're just chatting with. Why don't you meet him and see how it goes? You don't have to make any major commitment to meet for coffee and have a conversation.

 

How old are the two of you?

 

We are both over 55. Sometimes it's easier to see through the trees with others' relationships than one's own.

 

Yes, we met a few years ago, but for reasons I won't go into here, it was not the right time. I thought him a kind and decent guy then.

[spiderowl]

Well we are talking again and both relieved I think. I think it cleared the air but not the best way to go about it. I'm still learning!