animalstyle Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Hello! First time poster but long time wanderer of this forum. I decided to toughen up today to post one of my challenges I am facing and I hope the community can offer some word of advise About me I'm currently 27 years old, graduated from the good university 6 years ago and ever since then I have worked for corporate america for about 5 years in sales. Last year I decided to take a leap of faith and start my own business. So far it's been successful and I am very proud of my accomplishment! But aside from academics and a career oriented mindset, I, however, lack experience with women. You see, I've never really truly had a girlfriend before and my reasons are quite 'normal' under my standards but compared to the social norm, I feel it's a bit "strange." The longest relationship I've had was close to 6 months but I wouldn't really call it a relationship because she disappeared on me. Long story short, I could say that I was starting to fall in love with her but she had some mental issues. She stopped talking to me because her ex bf passed away... The second closest relationship was not too long ago and that was roughly 2 months, but I gave up on that one because a). there were no intimacy (she wouldn't let me kiss her) b). she never ever initiated! But anyway, I've had flings with women but those were different. I never really got to know them... Growing up I never really took interest in women until college. The word "homosexual" never ever came across my mind because I knew I was and am still attracted to women. I knew I had many opportunities in high school and college but I focused more on education and self improvement. I don't think I am ugly nor good looking but above average in terms of looks. Additionally, I felt that having a gf could be a distraction towards my academics and my goals in life and ever since I was in high school I knew I wanted to be in business. Simply put, I've matured at a young age. But until recently, I would say 2 years ago, I began to feel the pressure. I guess you can say it's social pressure because my social circle started diminishing simply because they all either got married or are in a serious relationship. I noticed my weekends becoming more and more lonely so I took action and started meeting people. A couple of things I've started using was online dating, dating events, and other dating services, and as well as friends of friend. Which I have all found very effective. I've also thought about dating my employees but realize that would be absolutely chaotic so I never persisted... My work life is hectic but can be balanced if I wanted it, meaning if I get in a serious relationship I will balance my work-life. After several months and "soul" searching and going on multiple dates, I've pretty much narrowed it down to one girl that I truly like but because of my lack of experience I feel very insecure about our future or whether or not she likes me. The Situation and about her I've met this girl through a dating service and on paper she is absolutely perfect. She's 3 years older than me but I didn't mind and neither did she. We've openly spoken about the age difference and she's comfortable with me being 3 years younger. We have been going out for roughly 2 months. 8 dates to be exact. Lately, we've been seeing each other twice a week. One on the weekdays and one of the weekend (except this weekend because she has family coming over). You're probably wondering, hmmm, this sounds normal, what seems to be the problem? Maybe it's just me being insecure and inexperienced but I feel there are 3 things missing in our relationship (heck I don't even know if this is even considered a relationship). 1). Lack of intimacy. We held hands on our 2nd date... and have been doing it on every date, even in public. I kissed her on the 6th date but only on the cheeks because I wanted to be a gentleman. On the 7th date, I tried to kiss her, aiming for the lips, slowly, but she gave me the cheeks and our last date, I tried to kiss her again and she gave me the cheeks!!!! :( Am I doing something wrong? Is she not interested in me? The 2nd time I kissed her cheeks she giggled and I later texted her and asked her what's so funny? She shrugged it off and didn't realize she laughed. This last time, I kissed her cheeks, she giggled again, and I called her out and I said "What's so funny?" hahah. I honestly think it's adorable when she does it but damnit I want to kiss her lips already. I was even contemplating just grabbing her face LOL, but that's kinda creepy. 2). Lack of communication/initiation on her part - In the beginning when we were dating she would communicate back to me right away. I tried calling her but she never picks up but notice that she prefers texting more so I text her once in awhile. I try to communicate with her once a day but sometimes I just feel like it would be so nice to see her text me and ask how my day was and etc. She's done it once and I loved it and felt that she was interested in me. But her lack of initiation has me feeling that she's not interested in me. Maybe I'm wrong? 3). She never offers to pay - Of all the dates i've been on she has never ever offered to pay. This isn't a deal breaker for me. I am more than happy to pay for everything but it would be nice to hear her say, hey let me get it this time... I remember several dates ago, I purposely let the check sit on the table for 10-15 minutes to see if she is going to offer but nothing... Lol. The funny thing is she makes more than me. As a business owner, I make less than minimum wage but I can expense it on the company card. Overall, I like her a lot. I know majority of guys would literally just drop her out of their lives and move on but I don't know If I am strong enough to do that? I don't know whether or not to express to her my lack of experience. But my Mom feels like I should. I have a good support group and I rely a lot on their advise but sometimes I feel like everyone is different. My mom tells me that the hand holding is a good sign and the fact that she's been going out with you (never flaked) is also a good sign but why am I feeling so insecure about myself and why do I feel like the 3 things (kissing, initiation, and offers to pay) are bothering me? Do you think she senses my lack of experience? Do you think she is inexperienced as well? Do you think she's making me work for the kiss? We've never talked about our past relationships... Maybe it's time to have that talk? Do you think she's seeing someone else? Is it appropriate to ask? When is the right time to say can we be exclusive? What would you do in my shoes? I mean there are so many questions I want to ask but I think it would be best if people can chime in and I can answer all your questions? Edited February 7, 2015 by animalstyle
EgoJoe Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I'd drop her. I THINK: You need to see Women much more casually to increase your experience with these little things.
irresolute Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Yes, of course she senses it. I sense it too, by the long post you wrote. 1
hudson701 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 She's sound parasitic. Girls won't even get past the 2nd date with me if they are tight with money and take advantage of my generosity. Some really do think they are god's gift and are happy to sponge for as long as possible. You need more experience with this to see the signs and enforce personal boundaries. Get out there and date casually, learn about women a bit more. 2 months and not even a kiss? You need to work on your game.
Author animalstyle Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 She's sound parasitic. Girls won't even get past the 2nd date with me if they are tight with money and take advantage of my generosity. Some really do think they are god's gift and are happy to sponge for as long as possible. You need more experience with this to see the signs and enforce personal boundaries. Get out there and date casually, learn about women a bit more. 2 months and not even a kiss? You need to work on your game. I think the general consensus is to drop her but I dunno why I keep thinking there is hope. Now I feel bad that I'm being used by her... Ugh... You're right I don't have any game at the moment im going to have to work on that...
thecrucible Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Don't feel bad but when you're on a date, don't analyse too much...just try and be yourself. Also, it seems like you are picking the wrong time to try and escalate things if she is not responding to your attempts to have a phone call or kiss her on the lips...so try read her signals better and meet her in the middle rather than pushing too hard if she's not giving enough back. I wouldn't think about when to be exclusive. That's way ahead...I would just focus on trying to build intimacy and see if it'll go somewhere. I can understand why you're troubled about the lack of offering to get the bill. I expect guys to pay in the first instance and sometimes after that, but I always offer to split it after a few dates. I think you're right and she should offer to split after as many as 7 dates, at least to show that wherever it goes with you two, she's not using you as a meal ticket. I think others are right. Don't do anything that's not comfortable but maybe see women on a casual basis - by that I mean, go on some dates to get comfortable and get into your game. Tell yourself that you're going to have a good date and try and be in the moment. Don't worry about whether it'll go anywhere. I do this a lot more now and it seems to work in my favour. Also if you're really nervous and inside your head about a dating situation, the other person can tell. It makes it harder to be comfortable when you realise that I think - and the other person won't feel as at ease. Don't worry. You'll meet other women and eventually you'll meet someone you really gel with.
thecrucible Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I think the general consensus is to drop her but I dunno why I keep thinking there is hope. Now I feel bad that I'm being used by her... Ugh... You're right I don't have any game at the moment im going to have to work on that... Nah don't think you are being used. Never think that about yourself. Keep dating as long as you are enjoying it but also know when to bail. As long as you feel you are getting something out of it, you are not being used. If it starts to suck, politely withdraw. You'll be okay.
Author animalstyle Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 Don't feel bad but when you're on a date, don't analyse too much...just try and be yourself. Also, it seems like you are picking the wrong time to try and escalate things if she is not responding to your attempts to have a phone call or kiss her on the lips...so try read her signals better and meet her in the middle rather than pushing too hard if she's not giving enough back. I wouldn't think about when to be exclusive. That's way ahead...I would just focus on trying to build intimacy and see if it'll go somewhere. I can understand why you're troubled about the lack of offering to get the bill. I expect guys to pay in the first instance and sometimes after that, but I always offer to split it after a few dates. I think you're right and she should offer to split after as many as 7 dates, at least to show that wherever it goes with you two, she's not using you as a meal ticket. I think others are right. Don't do anything that's not comfortable but maybe see women on a casual basis - by that I mean, go on some dates to get comfortable and get into your game. Tell yourself that you're going to have a good date and try and be in the moment. Don't worry about whether it'll go anywhere. I do this a lot more now and it seems to work in my favour. Also if you're really nervous and inside your head about a dating situation, the other person can tell. It makes it harder to be comfortable when you realise that I think - and the other person won't feel as at ease. Don't worry. You'll meet other women and eventually you'll meet someone you really gel with. wow that was very inspirational crucible thank you!
stellamaria Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 She sounds like she is using you, yes. But without talking to her about it, she might be thinking you want to pay. I dunno, I know me and I would DEFINITELY offer to pay. I'd feel uncomfortable having the guy pay, even for the first time. I'd want to split the first and if he insisted on paying, I'd pay the second. But all girls are not me. Maybe she thinks because you haven't kissed her, you're not that interested, that you just need a friend and that you want to pay. You won't know without asking her. It seems a weird set-up tho.
Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 This sounds like too very inexperienced people dating each other ( and that's not.necessarily a bad thing btw). Maybe she has morals ( hence why she isn't kissing you) or maybe she doesn't know what to do or expect. Either way i don't think she's using you,she just sees shy.
smackie9 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Yes, of course she senses it. I sense it too, by the long post you wrote. Ding! Ding! the right post here^^^
Author animalstyle Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 This sounds like too very inexperienced people dating each other ( and that's not.necessarily a bad thing btw). Maybe she has morals ( hence why she isn't kissing you) or maybe she doesn't know what to do or expect. Either way i don't think she's using you,she just sees shy. I have that feeling too... She's very traditional. She comes from a traditional asian family. Aside from her not paying, we hold hands in the public and it absolutely kills me that whenever I kiss her on the cheeks she giggles afterwards, I just think it's super adorable. We have similar values and that's something I really like. But lately she hasn't been very responsive on texting. We used to text frequently but it's slowly dwindling downwards. I have a feeling that she might be losing interest in me. So Ill need to put my words into action... We have a something tentatively setup for this week and I plan on kissing her, even if she tilts her head to the side. Is that too aggressive?
Els Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 I have that feeling too... She's very traditional. She comes from a traditional asian family. Aside from her not paying, we hold hands in the public and it absolutely kills me that whenever I kiss her on the cheeks she giggles afterwards, I just think it's super adorable. Well, that explains all of the above. Yes, this behaviour is the norm for traditional Asian girls. That does not mean that you have to keep dating her if any of the above are dealbreakers for you - you absolutely do not have to, you are entitled to your own needs and preferences. But it also means that she is just following her traditional norms and isn't necessarily 'using' you out of malice or ill intent. Is she 'traditional' in other aspects as well though? Is she chaste with other guys, has no/few previous partners, etc? We have similar values and that's something I really like. But lately she hasn't been very responsive on texting. We used to text frequently but it's slowly dwindling downwards. I have a feeling that she might be losing interest in me. So Ill need to put my words into action... We have a something tentatively setup for this week and I plan on kissing her, even if she tilts her head to the side. Is that too aggressive? It depends on how aggressively you do it. If you go slowly and stop if she tells you to stop, I don't see anything wrong with you trying to kiss her. But you need to be aware of her body language and stop immediately if she pushes you away. Then you can decide how long you are willing to wait, and leave if you are not willing to. But you need to respect her boundaries regardless.
Author animalstyle Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 Well, that explains all of the above. Yes, this behaviour is the norm for traditional Asian girls. That does not mean that you have to keep dating her if any of the above are dealbreakers for you - you absolutely do not have to, you are entitled to your own needs and preferences. But it also means that she is just following her traditional norms and isn't necessarily 'using' you out of malice or ill intent. Is she 'traditional' in other aspects as well though? Is she chaste with other guys, has no/few previous partners, etc? It depends on how aggressively you do it. If you go slowly and stop if she tells you to stop, I don't see anything wrong with you trying to kiss her. But you need to be aware of her body language and stop immediately if she pushes you away. Then you can decide how long you are willing to wait, and leave if you are not willing to. But you need to respect her boundaries regardless. Yes. She is quite reserved but again the hand holding has been the only positive aspect in our relationship. I think that's the major reason why I'm still seeing her because I value the hand holding to be sacred. Friends don't hold hands in public... But then again she doesn't show it through the smaller things like offering to pay, initiating texts, and etc. So that leads me to question her interest towards me... About her past relationship, Im not fully aware of it nor have we spoken too much about it. I remember asking her on our 2nd date about her past relationship and she gave me a very broad answer "just haven't found the one, but most importantly my family has to like him."
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