Might WSs have attachment disorder despite stable Ms?

[starglider]

Reading stories on LS of WSs who have kind, supportive, loving MPs and still end up here talking about the mistakes they made in entering into the abyss of an A, I'm forming a theory.

 

Perhaps some As are the result of a WS who has attachment disorder* and was lucky enough to end up in a marriage with a securely attached partner. But eventually the unhealthy attachment style reared its ugly head, for the WS, thus landing in an A.

 

Thinking back on my EA, I realize my husband is the only partner with whom I've had a "secure attachment" when it comes to attachment theory, and this is probably the good fortune of having met him when I was in therapy at that time in my life. All other attachments have been one of the other 3 unhealthy styles, so I'm familiar with them.

 

Just a theory.

 

*Unhealthy attachment styles include = fearful-avoidant, dismissive-avoidant, and anxious-preoccupied.

[DKT3]

I don't know about that, there is still the issue of crossing boundaries to even become attached.

 

I will say this, its good that you are searching for your why's. That is a good sign that this will be your only walk down infidelity road. Its even better that your why's don't include your husbands flaws.

 

Keep up the good work, and good luck.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't think i had or have attachment disorder.. I have never had a problem attaching to others.

 

 

I can only speak for me....others here may fall into your attachment disorder theory...but i don't think i fit.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[autumnnight]

I understand the comfort some might find with the idea that all WS are somehow "disordered." However, that simply is not the case. There is no magic "thing" inside everyone who cheats that separates them from "the regular people."

[starglider]

I don't think i had or have attachment disorder.. I have never had a problem attaching to others.

Just to clarify, "attachment disorder" doesn't mean a person has a problem attaching to others, it just means the attachment is in a non-secure/unhealthy manner (i.e. "a roller coaster"). So for example, a person with Anxious/Ambivalent style attachment has these tendencies:

 

Compulsive caregiving

Feeling overinvolved and underappreciated

Idealizing of others

Strong desire for partner to reciprocate in relationship

Desire for extensive contact and declarations of affections

Overinvests his/her emotions in a relationship

Perceives relationships as imbalanced

Relationship is idealized

Preoccupation with relationship

Dependence on relationship

Heavy reliance on partner

Views partner as desirable but unpredictable (sometimes available, sometimes not)

Perceives others as difficult to understand

Relationship is primary method by which one can experience a sense of security

Sensitive to rejection

Discomfort with anger

Extreme emotions

Jealous/Possessive

Mood swings

 

So in my case, I had exhibited some of these tendencies with my AP (EA) and with previous partners in my life, but not with my husband. Reading the stories of some As on LS, the narratives of the waywards include many examples from this list.

 

But the language used about their M is very much the language of a secure attachment (the feelings I have in my relationship with my H):

 

trusting long-term relationship

high self-esteem

enjoying intimate relationships

ability to seek out social support

ability to share feelings

no feelings of abandonment when partner is away

ability to enjoy times alone and times together

secure feeling of mutual attachment/love

 

So from these two lists, the roller coaster attachment style to the AP and the secure attachment to the MP, it makes me wonder about my original question: do some As happen because waywards have a latent, unhealthy attachment style that erupts, despite having the good fortune of a secure attachment in marriage?

[autumnnight]

No

 

People are people. There is nothing but futility in looking for "the cheating gene" or "the cheating disorder."

 

For a WS, it is irrelevant. Unless it made you psychotic, you still knew right from wrong. Own the choice.

 

For a BS, bad as you hate it, WS's are not pod people sent from the planet evil. They are humans just like you.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess i am hesitant to try to pigeon hole people into categories. If you think you fit into this mode then you have answered your own question....and i guess your observation that maybe "some" affairs are a result of attachment disorder.

 

I can read the lists you have posted and i tend to think that most of us have experienced many of the things listed at one time or another. Does that then make us fit into the attachment disorder concept? I truly dont know.

[autumnnight]

It's like NPD and BPD that people love to armchair diagnose. Every person on the planet who is actually a human has exhibited SOMETHING on some psych list somewhere at some point.

 

It's a red herring, a distraction.

[starglider]

For a WS, it is irrelevant. Unless it made you psychotic, you still knew right from wrong. Own the choice.

Autumnnight, I am trying to own the choice I made at the time, I do feel I was a LITTLE psychotic during my EA, or very unhinged is more accurate.

 

I was feeling an overinvolved, compulsive caregiving, I idealized him, over-invested in his emotions, was preoccupied and dependent on our R, relied on him heavily, saw him as desirable but unpredictable, felt my security depended on our R, was sensitive to rejection, and had very bad mood swings.

 

I know right from wrong now and did before the EA, but during it I never would have said back that phrase because either I didn't care about the difference between right and wrong, or I rationalized actions, kept moving the "line" in my mind, who knows.

[badkarma2013]

No

 

People are people. There is nothing but futility in looking for "the cheating gene" or "the cheating disorder."

 

For a WS, it is irrelevant. Unless it made you psychotic, you still knew right from wrong. Own the choice.

 

For a BS, bad as you hate it, WS's are not pod people sent from the planet evil. They are humans just like you.

 

******************************************************************

You are so right ....Its the DA&N Choice ..nothing more...EVERY WS here passed hundreds of red flags before the Affair (sex) took place...

 

You choose to continue ...knowing its wrong and for most a nightmare awaits right around the corner..and YOU do it anyway..Because you choose to!

 

I had 2 Administrative Assistants who were in their late 20s...I could have had an A with either...I CHOSE not to ....I was married...Now this is while my WW is having a 8-10 month A with her BOSS..that was her choice..nothing more..

 

Everyone here will make choices until we die . And we will ALL be held Accountable for the choices we make......

Edited February 7, 2015 by badkarma2013

[Mrs. John Adams]

Badkarma...you are absolutely correct. I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out "why" I had an affair anymore...mostly because the bottom line is always the same....I made the choice to cheat. It doesn't matter if i was depressed, upset, angry.....whatever you want to come up with....I had many opportunities to STOP, to change my mind, to walk away...I didn't. I knew what i was doing was WRONG. I did not "plan" to do it....but i certainly allowed it to happen. It was MY CHOICE.

 

I understand trying to figure out why....so you don't do it again is important..but for me "why" is very simple...and i don't need to figure out my psychological state of mind at the time.

 

I was selfish...I only thought about me. Period. If I had been thinking about how my actions were going to affect my spouse or our marriage or the rest of our lives...I would not have done it. But my mind was on one thing...ME.

[DKT3]

Badkarma...you are absolutely correct. I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out "why" I had an affair anymore...mostly because the bottom line is always the same....I made the choice to cheat. It doesn't matter if i was depressed, upset, angry.....whatever you want to come up with....I had many opportunities to STOP, to change my mind, to walk away...I didn't. I knew what i was doing was WRONG. I did not "plan" to do it....but i certainly allowed it to happen. It was MY CHOICE.

 

I understand trying to figure out why....so you don't do it again is important..but for me "why" is very simple...and i don't need to figure out my psychological state of mind at the time.

 

I was selfish...I only thought about me. Period. If I had been thinking about how my actions were going to affect my spouse or our marriage or the rest of our lives...I would not have done it. But my mind was on one thing...ME.

 

I think the why's are very important. You used something to ease the idea of cheating. Its always best to understand that.

 

 

I one thing that drives me crazy is this "I didn't look for it" or "plan on this" that is such bullshyt. Yes you did plan this. You had sex with that guy many times in your mind before you did IRL. You drove to his house, were the plans to play cards or garden?

[elaine567]

Just to clarify, "attachment disorder" doesn't mean a person has a problem attaching to others, it just means the attachment is in a non-secure/unhealthy manner (i.e. "a roller coaster"). So for example, a person with Anxious/Ambivalent style attachment has these tendencies:

 

Compulsive caregiving

Feeling overinvolved and underappreciated

Idealizing of others

Strong desire for partner to reciprocate in relationship

Desire for extensive contact and declarations of affections

Overinvests his/her emotions in a relationship

Perceives relationships as imbalanced

Relationship is idealized

Preoccupation with relationship

Dependence on relationship

Heavy reliance on partner

Views partner as desirable but unpredictable (sometimes available, sometimes not)

Perceives others as difficult to understand

Relationship is primary method by which one can experience a sense of security

Sensitive to rejection

Discomfort with anger

Extreme emotions

Jealous/Possessive

Mood swings

 

So in my case, I had exhibited some of these tendencies with my AP (EA) and with previous partners in my life, but not with my husband. Reading the stories of some As on LS, the narratives of the waywards include many examples from this list.

 

But the language used about their M is very much the language of a secure attachment (the feelings I have in my relationship with my H):

 

trusting long-term relationship

high self-esteem

enjoying intimate relationships

ability to seek out social support

ability to share feelings

no feelings of abandonment when partner is away

ability to enjoy times alone and times together

secure feeling of mutual attachment/love

 

So from these two lists, the roller coaster attachment style to the AP and the secure attachment to the MP, it makes me wonder about my original question: do some As happen because waywards have a latent, unhealthy attachment style that erupts, despite having the good fortune of a secure attachment in marriage?

 

Yes, but these are not set in stone, a person who normally shows a secure style, may be plummeted into the roller coaster style by something external that shakes them up, ie a bereavement, being sick, being bullied at work, losing a job, having a disabled child, looking after aged parents etc. etc.

From, for instance, having high esteem and no feelings of abandonment, they can end up having no self esteem and become clingy and hate to be alone.

We can all move through attachment styles depending on the circumstances of our lives. How we feel, how we are treated, what life throws at us can influence our relationships and our attachment styles.

To label WSs and BSs as showing one attachment type is too simple IMO.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think the why's are very important. You used something to ease the idea of cheating. Its always best to understand that.

 

 

I one thing that drives me crazy is this "I didn't look for it" or "plan on this" that is such bullshyt. Yes you did plan this. You had sex with that guy many times in your mind before you did IRL. You drove to his house, were the plans to play cards or garden?

 

 

I am sorry what i said drives you crazy...because what i said is truth. thankfully...I am not your WW so my story has no affect on you whatsoever.

 

I did not have sex in my mind with him...I did not plan to have sex with him. I planned to go to lunch with him...and he changed the plans. There was no plan to go to his apartment....i knew nothing about it....

 

Now...i made the decision to go...it was my choice...it is totally on me. It is what it is...i will accept full responsibility...I however don't accept responsibility for what you have perceived in your mind as truth.

 

I lived it...I was there....I know what did and did not happen. I have absolutely no reason to lie or to change the story. I have been honest and truthful...given my husband every detail. My accountability is to him.

 

and yes the whys are important....but you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the whys...because you will never have the answer.

 

I cheated because i was selfish. That sums it up.

[badkarma2013]

I think the why's are very important. You used something to ease the idea of cheating. Its always best to understand that.

 

 

I one thing that drives me crazy is this "I didn't look for it" or "plan on this" that is such bullshyt. Yes you did plan this. You had sex with that guy many times in your mind before you did IRL. You drove to his house, were the plans to play cards or garden?

 

I have been her a while...I am a BH of which by the way my story belongs in a Twilight Zone episode...

 

I have read many comments from WWS...Hundreds by the way...

 

Most all say (most mean it I think)..They did not plan for the sex to take place....But placed themselves in a position for it to happen...I think if the OM had approched them and said "Lets go Fu&k..they would have would have not gone...Did they pass many Red flags before the clothes hit the floor..YES...Did they CHOOSE to place themselves in a position where the sex could happen ..YES...Did they try to stop the course of events that were about to happen...NO...

 

I think what Mrs Adams is trying to say ...Yes she screwed up royal by placing herself in such a position and regrets the pain it caused her husband and it still continues...and she does this daily...

 

She did go...and she did have an A..But i think she did not go with the OM with the sole purpose of having sex with him, and that was not her intent but she did and did not stop it...and everyone pays...even 30 years later...

[elaine567]

and yes the whys are important....but you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the whys...because you will never have the answer.

 

I cheated because i was selfish. That sums it up.

 

You were given an opportunity. You took it, as you at the time thought "Why not? This is about me here and what I want." Simple. I get that.

 

I think whys do send some crazy because they cannot believe the reasons given. They keep asking "why?"; when "why?" is sometimes pretty simple on the part of the WS it seems. I think for some BSs it seems impossible that a reason so trivial or uncomplicated could have caused them so much upset, so there must be more.

I guess for some WSs the reason IS very simple.

[DKT3]

I have been her a while...I am a BH of which by the way my story belongs in a Twilight Zone episode...

 

I have read many comments from WWS...Hundreds by the way...

 

Most all say (most mean it I think)..They did not plan for the sex to take place....But placed themselves in a position for it to happen...I think if the OM had approched them and said "Lets go Fu&k..they would have would have not gone...Did they pass many Red flags before the clothes hit the floor..YES...Did they CHOOSE to place themselves in a position where the sex could happen ..YES...Did they try to stop the course of events that were about to happen...NO...

 

I think what Mrs Adams is trying to say ...Yes she screwed up royal by placing herself in such a position and regrets the pain it caused her husband and it still continues...and she does this daily...

 

She did go...and she did have an A..But i think she did not go with the OM with the sole purpose of having sex with him, and that was not her intent but she did and did not stop it...and everyone pays...even 30 years later...

 

.....and then she planned to do it again.

 

Nah, they plan it. They know its possible and they continue to put themselves on the path.

 

Saying and believing that they didn't plan it means they don't have to think as low of themselves. As if what happened was beyond their control.

 

I will give you an example a couple of young adults having unprotected sex become pregnant, then say they didn't plan it or look to become pregnant. No, they may not have said I want to get pregnant but they carried on knowing at some point it would happen.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Bad karma..your response gets a 10 out of 10. You hit that nail right on the head.

 

Elaine...nothing about infidelity is simple. My answer of selfishness involves so many things. I did not mean to make light of it or to make it appear that I don't struggle with the whys....I do. But no matter what I come up with..it still doesn't make sense. Why? Because there is no logic....how can a person be so insensitive, or unfeeling, or evil, on and on. I have no explanation that will satisfy John...or myself. Why? Because reasons...sound like excuses...and the last thing I want to do is start listing all the reasons I cheated...because none of them is good enough. There is no reason, no excuse, no disorder, no syndrome, nothing...that will explain the why enough to satisfy anyone.

 

I can't tell you why...I can't tell John how I allowed myself to become a person I don't even know. If I can't understand it myself...how can I possibly explain it to someone else?

 

Of course I think about it...of course I try to analize it....the truth? I don't know. I was selfish...and out of selfishness I was willing to destroy a family.

[Mrs. John Adams]

.....and then she planned to do it again.

 

Nah, they plan it. They know its possible and they continue to put themselves on the path.

 

Saying and believing that they didn't plan it means they don't have to think as low of themselves. As if what happened was beyond their control.

 

I will give you an example a couple of young adults having unprotected sex become pregnant, then say they didn't plan it or look to become pregnant. No, they may not have said I want to get pregnant but they carried on knowing at some point it would happen.

 

you are entitled to believe what you believe...you are entitled to have your opinions ...you are entitled to think whatever you want to about me.

 

It doesn't make it true...it doesn't make it fact. And it also doesn't matter. I am not your ww and what I did, said thought has no affect on you whatsoever.

 

You have expressed your opinion about my thoughts, my intentions, my life.

 

I was there...I lived the moment...I know what did or did not happen. What I have to say about my life is not an opinion...it is a confession, a disclosure. I have opened myself up and shared my story. It is a painful process to tell the ugliest parts of your life...and I know that there will be those who will hate me for what I did because I represent a part of their pain as well.

 

My story is ugly. There is no pretty infidelity story. I don't look at others and compare my evil to their evil. I am only concerned with my evil. I know how low I am. I know how evil, how disgusting, how pathetic I am. I don't need others to inform me. I look in the mirror every day. I know who I am...I know who I was...I know who I want to be.

 

I am satisfied that I am doing the very best that I can do to love my husband, to be the wife he deserves. I can never repay the gift he has given me of forgiveness. I am not perfect and I have made terrible choices and decisions. I accept full responsibility. I blame no one else.

[elaine567]

.....and then she planned to do it again.

 

Nah, they plan it. They know its possible and they continue to put themselves on the path.

 

Saying and believing that they didn't plan it means they don't have to think as low of themselves. As if what happened was beyond their control.

 

I will give you an example a couple of young adults having unprotected sex become pregnant, then say they didn't plan it or look to become pregnant. No, they may not have said I want to get pregnant but they carried on knowing at some point it would happen.

 

Yes but sex is sex, and many dissociate sex and pregnancy, because of contraception.

"0% chance of getting pregnant".

It is often assumed that pregnancy is something that will just NOT happen, BECAUSE of contraception, until it does of course...

 

Perhaps those that embark on affairs, think marriage is like contraception.

"0% chance of me ever having an affair".

They can go out to lunch, they can spend time alone, they can get as close as they want emotionally...

The assumption is that an affair will just NOT happen,

BECAUSE of the marriage, until it does of course...

 

I am not sure if "planning" it is really involved, because the mindset chosen is to remove the real risks from consciousness.

[JohnAdams]

The story my wife posted here of her affair is an accurate summation of what happened. She did not post all the details as they are really no one else's business and are not needed to tell her story. I do know all the details. She was very open with me on what happened, as much as it hurt, she told it all to me. I am satisfied that I know the whole story.

 

 

There is never a satisfying answer to the question "Why". I know I asked that over and over and never received a satisfactory answer. I think that is because there is no satisfactory answer to "Why".

 

 

There are many speculations to what could have happened. We have talked that for us, many things fell into place. Had one little thing happened a little different, there is a good chance we would not be together now. But, things played out in a way that did let us reconcile.

[elaine567]

Elaine...nothing about infidelity is simple. My answer of selfishness involves so many things.

 

Of course I think about it...of course I try to analize it....the truth? I don't know. I was selfish...and out of selfishness I was willing to destroy a family.

 

Yes, selfishness involves many things, but selfishness is the simple answer in your case here and explains a lot.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you elaine...I really also liked what you said in your post earlier as well.

 

I truly only knew the OM a few weeks and had never been alone with him outside of the classroom. When I agreed to go to lunch....I clearly was only in the moment...I was not thinking about anyone or anything else except the excitement of going out to lunch. I was not being logical...I was not thinking about the repercussions...I was not planning my whole life. I was going out to lunch.

 

And I think even in my sick mind at the time...I thought..it was an innocent lunch. Now....I look back at it differently ...because I know there is no such thing as an innocent lunch with another man. I crossed the line....and I can tell you honestly....that I was not thinking about sex or going to his house or anything else. I was going to lunch.

 

Now...fast forward...I had days to cancel that lunch...I had 30 minutes to turn around and drive home when he was late. I could have said no I won't follow you home so you can change. That is totally 100% my fault. But even then...I wasn't thinking about sex...I was still thinking we are going to lunch. I am not innocent...but if I was contemplating having sex with this man...why wouldn't I tell you so at this point? Would it change anything? Would the outcome still have been the same? I had sex with the man...whether it happened the way I said it did...or whether it happened the way dkt3 said it did does not change the outcome. I committed adultery.

 

There is no "innocent adultery" ...I am guilty. Why did I allow myself to do this? In a nutshell...I was selfish.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[badkarma2013]

Yes but sex is sex, and many dissociate sex and pregnancy, because of contraception.

"0% chance of getting pregnant".

It is often assumed that pregnancy is something that will just NOT happen, BECAUSE of contraception, until it does of course...

 

Perhaps those that embark on affairs, think marriage is like contraception.

"0% chance of me ever having an affair".

They can go out to lunch, they can spend time alone, they can get as close as they want emotionally...

The assumption is that an affair will just NOT happen,

BECAUSE of the marriage, until it does of course...

 

I am not sure if "planning" it is really involved, because the mindset chosen is to remove the real risks from consciousness.

 

 

I think ALL Bhs her have heard "I never meant for this to happen...I did not Plan for this it just happened.."

 

I have commnicated with dozens of WWs since my EWs own infidelity..My WW nor any WWs I have spoken with could GIVE me a rational WHY...Not one...

 

However ALL of them cannot lie with the Same answer..I truly believe they can see it coming..they have some idea it might happen..but place themselves in a position for it to happen and Do Not do anything to stop it...

 

As I have said if the OM had said "lets go Fu%k...they would not have gone...

 

But at some point ...they let it go on and most Continue....

 

I could never understand how my WW could go from a prim sunday school teacher to a complete pornstar with the OM...but she did..

 

I wanted a complex answer..It could not just be because she liked it....But maybe it was...Ill never know ...

 

"The assumption is that an affair will just NOT happen,

BECAUSE of the marriage, until it does of course...

 

maybe it just that simple ...

[Seachan]

 

I was selfish...I only thought about me. Period. If I had been thinking about how my actions were going to affect my spouse or our marriage or the rest of our lives...I would not have done it. But my mind was on one thing...ME.

 

So you were selfish and cheated. But now you are loyal and faithful. There is no *why* that you know of. So, the question is, what's to stop you from being selfish again in the future? Anything? Nothing?

 

Is this why you feel you can make no guarantees it won't happen again?

 

For a BS who has a WS with a similar view, what gives them the safety to reinvest in R?

 

OP, I think your examination of your attachment style will probably help you a lot as you move forward. Not just in your M but in having healthier relationships in general.