Different relationship rules in different cultures

[Intrepidcaribou]

I recently moved from Toronto to the Yukon. I first noticed that relatively few people are actually married and most people seem to be common law. People of all income levels have kids without being married, something that would be extremely uncommon in the south, especially among educated couples. General education levels here are high, as is discretionary income. Poverty and unemployment rates are low too. Men and women are very equal and since government is the biggest employer, women can still move ahead even if they have kids. We also have the highest divorce rate in the country, around 60%, but high female incomes mean splitting up isn't disastrous for families. Nobody here goes to church and 30% of people have no religious affiliation whatsoever. It's similar to somewhere like Iceland where I've been told "if a woman isn't 100% happy in a relationship, even if she has three kids, she'll leave".

 

I come from a fairly conservative family where marriage is a pre-requisite for having kids. My grandfather believes not getting married before having kids is pretty much begging a guy to desert you. My mother is Palestinian she thinks having a child out of wedlock shames a family. Certainly she could never tell her mother about any out of wedlock child we might have, though I suspect she may herself be a bit more broad-minded. How do I approach things here. I don't necessarily think common law is wrong but it never seemed like a viable option until now

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Edited February 7, 2015 by Intrepidcaribou

[Gloria25]

II wouldn't bring a child into a situation where there was no marriage. Quite frankly, if I ever married, I'd wait at least three years before having a kid so we can bond as a married couple and make sure the "nest" is secure....But, since I'm going on thirty, have no prospects for marriage and have no desire for kids, this is not an issue for me.

 

I believe people who "play house" and/or "shack-up" have one foot outside of the door. We get our sense of security from the "home" we were born into and raised in. Broken homes take away a child's sense of security, trust, and even ability to love. There are also significant financial impact as there is no longer two incomes.

 

With marriage, there is a commitment and more incentive to stick it out. You have no legal and/or moral obligations in a shack up.

 

While I do not plan to have kids and don't need to get married, I would not do the shack up/common law nonsense. If it's "just a piece of paper" then why not do it?

 

I guess you feel obligated to like 'Do as in Rome' type of thing? Well, not me. Just cuz everyone is shacking up doesn't mean I have to. I don't just go with the flow much, which is one of the reasons I have droughts. I rather be alone than do certain things.

[Intrepidcaribou]

I guess you feel obligated to like 'Do as in Rome' type of thing? Well, not me. Just cuz everyone is shacking up doesn't mean I have to. I don't just go with the flow much, which is one of the reasons I have droughts. I rather be alone than do certain things.

 

For people here, marriage vs no marriage doesn't make much or a difference because divorce rates are extremely high, religiosity is extremely low, nobody really cares what people think (no big fancy wedding to keep up with the Joneses), and a woman can raise a child much more easily on her own than she can in the South. A relationship failing isn't seen as a catastrophe like it is in other places.

[Got it]

The differences seems to be more about what is acceptable in your family or not. That is going to be a personal/specific issue. All you can do is discuss it with your family and see. Sometimes people will surprise you.

 

Do you have a SO that this is applying to or more of a general pondering? What do you want? What feels right to you? If there isn't anyone else right now I would start worrying about issues that may never exist. Figure out what you want and need and go from there.

[Els]

For people here, marriage vs no marriage doesn't make much or a difference because divorce rates are extremely high, religiosity is extremely low, nobody really cares what people think (no big fancy wedding to keep up with the Joneses), and a woman can raise a child much more easily on her own than she can in the South. A relationship failing isn't seen as a catastrophe like it is in other places.

 

Are common law couples entitled to any legal rights there?

 

Anyway, I am in support of couples who choose common law relationships if that is what they want, but your reasoning seems a bit off. If you are going off of the premise that "it will fail anyway", then IMO you should not even be attempting to have a child together, regardless of whether or not you marry. Not to mention that it's a rather unhealthy mindset to approach LTRs with.

 

The people I know who are actually in happy and healthy common law relationships, are in them because they see no personal significance in marriage. They are also invested in their relationships and believe there is a good chance of it lasting for the long haul. That is very different from your reasons.

[Intrepidcaribou]

 

Anyway, I am in support of couples who choose common law relationships if that is what they want, but your reasoning seems a bit off. If you are going off of the premise that "it will fail anyway", then IMO you should not even be attempting to have a child together, regardless of whether or not you marry. Not to mention that it's a rather unhealthy mindset to approach LTRs with.

 

It's that one of the above posters seemed to think that marriage was the prerequisite for children because it granted security, when there really is no security in life. My parents are married, but they drive each other nuts and can't afford divorce. My mother is kind of conflicted because she is very Catholic. She says she doesn't believe in marriage because people change but at the same time it's the only acceptable way for her for people to have sex.

[Emilia]

What would be your ideal OP? Meeting a woman, get married for good, a couple of kids and a nice house? In which case it sounds like the Yukon isn't necessary for you. Do you think a less traditional approach would depress you? I've seen that with more traditional people.

[ASG]

Where I'm from, common law is quite... hmm... common. Sure, people still get married, but quite a few of my friends had kids before they tied the knot. And it was not by accident!

 

My cousin is still to get married. Been together 8 years, has a 5 year old. They are thinking about it, but don't have the money for the party they would want (which is really the only reason they'd get married, to have the party for the family and friends, as otherwise they consider themselves very much married)

 

Common Law is recognised legally where I'm from.

[DatingDirection]

For other Torontonian single females out there, maybe you can relate, or am I just delusional. I find myself invisible to the opposite sex. People in the city, i find to be jaded, and depressed. Blame it on the weather, but honestly, even in the summer i feel invisible walking down the street. In fact, the only time chivalry is shown, is by men over the age of 65! What is going on here? I get noticed by older men, and thugs. Not by men who I actually would like to notice me. I'm not too sure what to do to get noticed, and respected for that matter as well. I do find Toronto men are passive, and when they are not passive, they are flat out, rude, and egotistic. Perhaps women are too, im not sure. Am i the only one who has observed this? Bottom line is, im 31 years old, i haven't been in a relationship for 3 years. I haven't really tried on line dating, i much prefer to meet someone in a natural setting, and a realistic setting. I've been told that if i lived in Central or South America, i would have 10 boyfriends all chasing me. So why not in Toronto, Canada? I'm not a size 2, or a size 8 for that matter, i do have curves, but by no means, am i fat...just not a stick.

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[Intrepidcaribou]

For other Torontonian single females out there, maybe you can relate, or am I just delusional. I find myself invisible to the opposite sex. People in the city, i find to be jaded, and depressed. Blame it on the weather, but honestly, even in the summer i feel invisible walking down the street. In fact, the only time chivalry is shown, is by men over the age of 65! What is going on here? I get noticed by older men, and thugs. Not by men who I actually would like to notice me. I'm not too sure what to do to get noticed, and respected for that matter as well. I do find Toronto men are passive, and when they are not passive, they are flat out, rude, and egotistic. Perhaps women are too, im not sure. Am i the only one who has observed this? Bottom line is, im 31 years old, i haven't been in a relationship for 3 years. I haven't really tried on line dating, i much prefer to meet someone in a natural setting, and a realistic setting. I've been told that if i lived in Central or South America, i would have 10 boyfriends all chasing me. So why not in Toronto, Canada? I'm not a size 2, or a size 8 for that matter, i do have curves, but by no means, am i fat...just not a stick.

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Toronto men don't know how to flirt or make women feel attractive. They know how to leer at women which makes women stuck up and hostile. Everyone works too much. Older European men flirted with me. Most of them were respectful, so I actually felt flattered. Young men don't bother. I know tons of attractive young Torontonians who are single.

[DatingDirection]

Toronto men don't know how to flirt or make women feel attractive. They know how to leer at women which makes women stuck up and hostile. Everyone works too much. Older European men flirted with me. Most of them were respectful, so I actually felt flattered. Young men don't bother. I know tons of attractive young Torontonians who are single.

 

I agree with you, but don't you think it's a bit odd? Why is it that Toronto men seem to leer, at women, as if they've never seen a woman before, but not approach her? Or as soon, as I notice them gazing at me, they look away, as if g-d forbid anybody should catch them checking out someone, as if they're too good to be checking anyone out, and everyone should check them out instead. Are too many women crying out sexual harassment, scaring men away from us, or are they just flat out, coincided, or shy (playing the role of the female)?

[Intrepidcaribou]

I agree with you, but don't you think it's a bit odd? Why is it that Toronto men seem to leer, at women, as if they've never seen a woman before, but not approach her? Or as soon, as I notice them gazing at me, they look away, as if g-d forbid anybody should catch them checking out someone, as if they're too good to be checking anyone out, and everyone should check them out instead. Are too many women crying out sexual harassment, scaring men away from us, or are they just flat out, coincided, or shy (playing the role of the female)?

 

I think it's because people work too much, commute too much and don't really interact like people. A lot Toronto people go clubbing, which is a total meat market. It's far better meeting people doing wholesome things like nature hikes, going to dinner, going to community events etc. but the culture isn't geared that way. Doing "regular things" when you're sober takes the pressure off and makes people behave more normally. Unless you're already married with kids or still in school, Toronto life isn't like that.

[Intrepidcaribou]

Where I'm from, common law is quite... hmm... common. Sure, people still get married, but quite a few of my friends had kids before they tied the knot. And it was not by accident!

 

My cousin is still to get married. Been together 8 years, has a 5 year old. They are thinking about it, but don't have the money for the party they would want (which is really the only reason they'd get married, to have the party for the family and friends, as otherwise they consider themselves very much married)

 

Common Law is recognised legally where I'm from.

 

Fancy weddings aren't the thing here. You would have to fly to Edmonton or Vancouver to even get a dress (and bridesmaids dresses). I honestly feel that one of the biggest reasons women want to get married is to have the wedding. If you just get married at City Hall, most wouldn't bother. I never felt like I wanted to be a meringue bride. I thought in I ever did it be with a priest in regular clothes.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Intrepidcaribou

[Els]

I honestly feel that one of the biggest reasons women want to get married is to have the wedding. If you just get married at City Hall, most wouldn't bother.

 

You are extrapolating quite a bit here from ASG's post. In the country that I (and, I think, ASG) live in, common law relationships are legally equivalent to marriages, so of course there is more emphasis on the wedding. Because there is no legal/practical need to marry, people only marry for personal/religious/social reasons, and a wedding is often part of those.

 

In many other countries this is not so, and in those countries there are practical reasons to want to marry, that have nothing to do with a wedding.

 

So, if you are considering common law (permanently, not ever leading to marriage) then the first thing you want to do is to look up the legal entitlements that common law couples have where you live. Then consider your own personal beliefs, and make your decision accordingly.

[truncated]

I'm not sure if a lotof the people you have met up in the Yukon are first nations people or not. A lot of them were taken from the homes and families in the past generations and sent to residentail schools, and it has had long term ripple effects on the current geeneration.

[Intrepidcaribou]

I'm not sure if a lotof the people you have met up in the Yukon are first nations people or not. A lot of them were taken from the homes and families in the past generations and sent to residentail schools, and it has had long term ripple effects on the current geeneration.

 

25% of Yukoners are FN. 16% of people in Whitehorse are FN. Marriage is less common in FN, but FN also tend to be a bit more religious. Most of the people I know are white. The number of visible minorities here is very small -- less than 10%.

[DatingDirection]

I think it's because people work too much, commute too much and don't really interact like people. A lot Toronto people go clubbing, which is a total meat market. It's far better meeting people doing wholesome things like nature hikes, going to dinner, going to community events etc. but the culture isn't geared that way. Doing "regular things" when you're sober takes the pressure off and makes people behave more normally. Unless you're already married with kids or still in school, Toronto life isn't like that.

 

Yes, this is totally correct. Which is why I am contemplating moving cities. I was thinking about moving to Calgary, Alberta. Or a completely different country. The country I would move to also has it's own difficulties, war at times, but over all, it's a beautiful spiritual place. i'm not too sure what to do?