matt1221 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Girls will never understand because they are often the ones being pursued, not the opposite. Instead of ripping on the guy give him constructive criticism. Some guys are too shy to tell girls how they feel and fear getting rejected. Lots of girls play mind games, which make thinks much more complex. For example, flirting with guys they have no feelings for to try to catch the eye of the guy they actually like. Or talking about texting another guy they like in front of the guy they actually like. 1
preraph Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 ^ I don't know any women who flirt with men they're not interested in. That's not a fun thing for women to do because it draws too many problematic guys to them. Women studiously withdraw from guys they aren't interested in if they can sense there's unwanted interest. It's all in the guys' heads. And it's not true that women aren't ever the ones pursuing. They are sometimes even worse than guys about hanging on to something that is going nowhere. The only difference is usually the guy is having sex with her but not wanting a relationship. That girl wasn't flirting with him. She'd known him 7 years and all he said is her body was close to him once, not even that they were touching! He's reading something into a situation that just wasn't there. After 7 years of friendship, she would be comfortable enough to relax around him because he'd seem more like a brother by then, so since she's not reading that he's actually trying to romance her (because how could she?), she had no reason not to act like her natural self around him. And the proof of that is that now that she knows, she will stop placing herself in close proximity. I do feel bad that he probably feels he's wasted 7 years of his life, and I'd like to motivate him to change his behavior and not waste the rest of it being too scared to ask someone out. Throwing blame on the girl is a cop out and if he does that, he will not learn anything from this experience. He's got to do things even if he's afraid to just like everyone else and ask a girl out soon after they meet and then move on when she's not interested to the next one.
matt1221 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Ok, let me re-phrase that. Girls won't lead a guy on they don't like. But, if there is a guy they are interested in they mention to their friends the idea of texting another guy in front of the guy they like to try to catch their attention. Almost to see their reaction and to make them sound more appealing and that other guys want them. So make your move.. Can we at least agree on that?
preraph Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Well, I just have no idea about that, but I'll take your word for it. That sounds maybe like something a teen might do more than an adult.
BeatsByDirk Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I feel like she'll never be interested in you. For a lot of guys there can be a girl around you for a long time and you can think nothing of her and one day something will turn it on for you. I think the same thing can happen for some women but I think it's far less frequent. I don't think it was sneaky or he had any grand scheme to lie in wait for the right time to make his move all the while plotting this whilst pretending to be a trusted confidant. If you are like head over heels I would definitely suggest going no contact and putting it out of your mind but if you still want to be friends ignore her for a while and just be cool but still be yourself. Definitely don't think about it too much about it if you can help it. You would have done better to get involved with someone else and see if she got jealous or made a move after all that friend one time. Be more direct in the future with all girls and never accept friendship if you want something else instead... Friendship isn't a consolation prize it's hell for losers!
Author Jax12 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Posted February 7, 2015 I have a question though. How strongly did you come on when you told her you like her? if you make it seem really serious sometimes it can scare girls away. Preferably you should have simply suggested a date kinda think where you made it clear you were romantically interested but not super serious . . . yet. I troll around a lot, and so people think that I'm always joking around, etc. When I told her that I liked her, she asked if I was serious many times. So I said that I was serious because there was no other way to convince her. She'd invite me to her house, and I'd invite her to mine. We watched a couple movies together (just us), and that's when I wanted to tell her because I never told her upfront how I felt around her. We'd have a lot of alone time and so I interpreted that she wanted something more than friends. Sometimes we'd get close (like sitting together close) she was okay with it. We were probably just best friends... which I misinterpreted entirely. She's one of those girls where if you don't tell her upfront, she won't suspect anything or take it seriously. And to everyone else who thought that I should have told her earlier: I agree, I should have. I've had a crush on her for that long but at the time I didn't want a girlfriend. I just wanted to hangout with her and that would be enough for me. I had no interest in dating then, up until now. I guess you can say that I wasn't mature enough for a relationship yet, and now I'm getting there. No one needs to go soft on me haha, sometimes I just need the truth rather than people putting icing over on top. If it's the truth, then I'll accept it. I appreciate the comments that it's essentially tough luck for me. Oh well, there's more fish in the sea. 1
you_can_not_see_me Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I troll around a lot, and so people think that I'm always joking around, etc. When I told her that I liked her, she asked if I was serious many times. So I said that I was serious because there was no other way to convince her. She'd invite me to her house, and I'd invite her to mine. We watched a couple movies together (just us), and that's when I wanted to tell her because I never told her upfront how I felt around her. We'd have a lot of alone time and so I interpreted that she wanted something more than friends. Sometimes we'd get close (like sitting together close) she was okay with it. We were probably just best friends... which I misinterpreted entirely. She's one of those girls where if you don't tell her upfront, she won't suspect anything or take it seriously. And to everyone else who thought that I should have told her earlier: I agree, I should have. I've had a crush on her for that long but at the time I didn't want a girlfriend. I just wanted to hangout with her and that would be enough for me. I had no interest in dating then, up until now. I guess you can say that I wasn't mature enough for a relationship yet, and now I'm getting there. No one needs to go soft on me haha, sometimes I just need the truth rather than people putting icing over on top. If it's the truth, then I'll accept it. I appreciate the comments that it's essentially tough luck for me. Oh well, there's more fish in the sea. ok now that you put it like that I do think you basically were friendzoned. Opposite sex friendships work differently for guys than they do with girls. Girls often disqualify a guy friend as a suitor if the friendship has gone on for long and you are comfortable buddies. Guys on the other hand can still feel attracted to their female friends even after a long time of being just friends, in fact a lot guys start having feelings for a girl only after being friends for a while. So I personally don't frown on a guy in such a situation, but I still think its best to go for romance as quickly as possible if you know you like a girl.
Author Jax12 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Posted February 7, 2015 ok now that you put it like that I do think you basically were friendzoned. Opposite sex friendships work differently for guys than they do with girls. Girls often disqualify a guy friend as a suitor if the friendship has gone on for long and you are comfortable buddies. Guys on the other hand can still feel attracted to their female friends even after a long time of being just friends, in fact a lot guys start having feelings for a girl only after being friends for a while. So I personally don't frown on a guy in such a situation, but I still think its best to go for romance as quickly as possible if you know you like a girl. Yup, lesson learned. I can find a lot of girls cute and attractive, so if they start showing signs that we should be more than friends then I'll take it, which is what happened in the past months. To be honest I'm a bit of a pussy. I'm scared to do a lot of things, like asking a girl out. I'm extremely afraid of rejection, which explains why I don't like asking girls out that much because it poses a lot of anxiety in me.
you_can_not_see_me Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Yup, lesson learned. I can find a lot of girls cute and attractive, so if they start showing signs that we should be more than friends then I'll take it, which is what happened in the past months. To be honest I'm a bit of a pussy. I'm scared to do a lot of things, like asking a girl out. I'm extremely afraid of rejection, which explains why I don't like asking girls out that much because it poses a lot of anxiety in me. Understandable, I am scared too, most people are. But there is no way to get out of it, if you want to meet a girl. Any attempts to postponed it just makes it harder and less likely to succeed. I think its a bad call to wait for signs from girls cause: 1. Signs can be ambiguous 2. Even if you see signs, you might make excuses for the signs being too ambiguous and shy away from approaching 3. A lot of women lose interest if a guy seems too indecisive and shy, and believe me in spite of your intention to not give away the game, girls will notice that you like them, and they ll just figure you are shy and cowardly for not approaching. Its happened to me a number of times, too scared to approach a girl who seems interested initially, then by the time I bring myself to finally ask them out I can already sense that they ve lost interest and I get shot down and told that they have BFs. Edited February 7, 2015 by you_can_not_see_me
Author Jax12 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Posted February 7, 2015 Understandable, I am scared too, most people are. But there is no way to get out of it, if you want to meet a girl. Any attempts to postponed it just makes it harder and less likely to succeed. I think its a bad call to wait for signs from girls cause: 1. Signs can be ambiguous 2. Even if you see signs, you might make excuses for the signs being too ambiguous and shy away from approaching 3. A lot of women lose interest if a guy seems too indecisive and shy, and believe me in spite of your intention to not give away the game, girls will notice that you like them, and they ll just figure you are shy and cowardly for not approaching. Its happened to me a number of times, too scared to approach a girl who seems interested initially, then by the time I bring myself to finally ask them out I can already sense that they ve lost interest and I get shot down and told that they have BFs. I think the problem that I have is that I very seldom ask girls out just because they look attractive. I have to get to know them first, be friends with them, and then maybe ask them out. Another problem I have is that certain things can turn me off easily, like if the girl is into gossiping. It's a struggle because the challenges in asking a girl out makes me think that I'm not actually into girls that way and that I'm actually gay. I never questioned my sexuality until last year when my first relationship with another girl ended. It's scary.
preraph Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I think most guys know they're gay because they can get fixated on some guy. If you've mostly fixated on girls and never been overtly interested or drawn to a guy, you're probably not gay. But if you have been fixated on any guys, then you may be. You don't have to rush the process. I've had a lot of gay guy friends, and they all struggled with it even up into their 20s. But really, it's all down to who have you crushed on. Maybe a way for you to wade into dating is to start asking groups of friends to go do things and then sitting by the girl you're interested in. Then once you think she's nice, which should not take more than a time or two, ask her individually to a movie. If you do end up liking guys, well, it won't be so daunting dating them. You'd just go to a gay event and they'll talk to you.
Author Jax12 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Posted February 7, 2015 I think most guys know they're gay because they can get fixated on some guy. If you've mostly fixated on girls and never been overtly interested or drawn to a guy, you're probably not gay. But if you have been fixated on any guys, then you may be. You don't have to rush the process. I've had a lot of gay guy friends, and they all struggled with it even up into their 20s. But really, it's all down to who have you crushed on. Maybe a way for you to wade into dating is to start asking groups of friends to go do things and then sitting by the girl you're interested in. Then once you think she's nice, which should not take more than a time or two, ask her individually to a movie. If you do end up liking guys, well, it won't be so daunting dating them. You'd just go to a gay event and they'll talk to you. All my life I never thought I was gay. I would talk to my guy friends and when we talked about which girls were attractive or not, I didn't feel out of place. I never had a crush on a guy though, maybe there's a sense of admiration for guys that have a really good package as a whole? Do you think that's possible?
preraph Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Well, I mean, we all envy people of our own sex that we wish we could be more like. There is a difference between that and getting caught up thinking about them. You'd be the first one to know if you couldn't get some guy off your mind because it's a big deal. So you're probably not gay.
Author Jax12 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 There is a difference between that and getting caught up thinking about them. You'd be the first one to know if you couldn't get some guy off your mind because it's a big deal. So you're probably not gay. I do envy those guys who workout a lot and have a perfect buff body. And then they have a beautiful woman beside them. Makes me wish I was them. Sorry this is getting extremely off topic, but I start imagining having sex with them and it stirs up a lot of anxiety. And a majority of the time it's men who are either tough looking or father figure looking. Thoughts? They don't linger in my head like a crush though which is odd...
bolase Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 If you are working through attraction to guys, or at least thinking about having sex with guys then this could be related to your intense dislike of the feeling of female rejection. Maybe something in your subconscious brain reads female rejection as these girls knowing that you are gay (even though this has had absolutely nothing to do with reasons for breaking up/rejection), and anger results because your attempts to disguise your sexuality as straight with them have failed? I dunno, I guess firstly you need to come to terms with your sexuality which can take quite a bit of time. Just aiming to unpick your feelings a little bit; anger is usually a reaction to not fully understanding how things are. I'm a girl so can't help you with the types you may be fantasizing over, but my ex boyfriend, who is now bi and in an open relationship with his girlfriend where he sometimes sleeps with guys, began at 25 fantasizing about guys his age. You know, the hot types of athletic guys. Fantasizing about father figures etc or older ones is probably less about sex more about you wanting the influence of a strong man in your life, or dominance; I would think? Good luck and don't be too harsh on your friend, you may need her
Author Jax12 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 If you are working through attraction to guys, or at least thinking about having sex with guys then this could be related to your intense dislike of the feeling of female rejection. Maybe something in your subconscious brain reads female rejection as these girls knowing that you are gay (even though this has had absolutely nothing to do with reasons for breaking up/rejection), and anger results because your attempts to disguise your sexuality as straight with them have failed? I dunno, I guess firstly you need to come to terms with your sexuality which can take quite a bit of time. Just aiming to unpick your feelings a little bit; anger is usually a reaction to not fully understanding how things are. I'm a girl so can't help you with the types you may be fantasizing over, but my ex boyfriend, who is now bi and in an open relationship with his girlfriend where he sometimes sleeps with guys, began at 25 fantasizing about guys his age. You know, the hot types of athletic guys. Fantasizing about father figures etc or older ones is probably less about sex more about you wanting the influence of a strong man in your life, or dominance; I would think? Good luck and don't be too harsh on your friend, you may need her I would assume so as well; fantasies about father figures may result from the lack of father figure. I think I may be seeking affection from them. Never once did I have any Feelings for men like I have for women, and talking to a girl seem to calm me down because women are really good at listening... Thanks for your input. I've been watching porn for 7 years and my tastes have become rather... Incestuoius.
preraph Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) I do envy those guys who workout a lot and have a perfect buff body. And then they have a beautiful woman beside them. Makes me wish I was them. Sorry this is getting extremely off topic, but I start imagining having sex with them and it stirs up a lot of anxiety. And a majority of the time it's men who are either tough looking or father figure looking. Thoughts? They don't linger in my head like a crush though which is odd... Well, then you do have an attraction to them. A lot of gay guys like the tough looking men. I would say don't pressure yourself to sort this out. Just relax about it and know that things will become clear in time. I mean, there will come a time when you either feel a strong enough urge to act on it or not. You could be bi or gay or just find different fantasies fun. Some people fantasize about things they don't think would really work for them if they actually did it. I know the gay guys I know, it just took them a long time to come to terms with it. But I also know some of them were occasionally attracted to a woman. One even married twice! But he was mainly attracted to men sexually. So there's literally all variations and percentages of people who like men and women. The more you socialize and get to know people, the clearer this will become to you. You don't have to make a decision. Just relax and be who you are and keep talking to people and seeing who you like. I agree you could be possibly seeking a father figure. But as you said, it's coming with the mixed feelings, so it may not be that simple. But you could be craving a male to model after too. Edited February 8, 2015 by preraph
you_can_not_see_me Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I don't think OP is gay, if here were he would know already.
Author Jax12 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Posted February 8, 2015 I don't think OP is gay, if here were he would know already. See that's the thing. If I had a crush on one of my friends for example, that would be a clear indicator that I like guys. The only thing I keep obsessing over is sexual thoughts... Whoops, the thread got way too off topic. I got a lot of great answers, thanks guys.
ascendotum Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I don't think OP is gay, if here were he would know already. I thought the vast majority of gay people knew they were gay by their mid teens. If he's not getting aroused by other guys then I doubt he is gay, but if he's attracted to women but is wanting to be friends first more then wanting to get their clothes off in the back seat of his car, then I would say he is probably low on testosterone. This strategy of being friends first and getting to know the woman over time is not going to do him any favors, though he has 2 gfs in the past, so it can and has worked for him. I would suspect it wont with the more attractive women. Lot of beta guys who have been friends with a girl they liked (then liked even more over time) then made a move on them after numerous months have bombed out. If you are an attractive guy then the friends first strategy has better chance of working as she was more likely to have desired you from day one and you don't have to build it + the embers of instant chemistry will still burn for a while and she'll likely make the move to escalate things one night when drunk. Seven yrs to announce his feelings to this woman is waay too long, and she will have him pegged well and truly as her good platonic guy friend. Least to her credit she hasn't freaked out and is shunning him.
preraph Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 ^ On some level they begin to know, but the guys I've known well were out of their teens before they really accepted they were gay and were still trying to date women.
Author Jax12 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 ^ On some level they begin to know, but the guys I've known well were out of their teens before they really accepted they were gay and were still trying to date women. Well I started questioning my orientation just last year. I really liked a girl and she liked me back so we started going out a bit. But then she changed and she wasn't the same person that I liked before, so I ended it with her. It was after this that I started questioning "Hey, maybe it's because I'm actually into guys not girls", when I've never had feelings for guys, nor did I see them in a sexual manner. My sexual fantasies somehow morphed itself to incestuous fantasies which is unhealthy. It's been on my mind ever since that first relationship. Fast forward, I still talk to that girl that I've known for 7 years, but it's depressing knowing that she does not feel the same about me. Seeing her just bothers me so I don't want to talk to her, but we've been good friends for so long I don't want to sever the friendship.
you_can_not_see_me Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Well I started questioning my orientation just last year. I really liked a girl and she liked me back so we started going out a bit. But then she changed and she wasn't the same person that I liked before, so I ended it with her. It was after this that I started questioning "Hey, maybe it's because I'm actually into guys not girls", when I've never had feelings for guys, nor did I see them in a sexual manner. My sexual fantasies somehow morphed itself to incestuous fantasies which is unhealthy. It's been on my mind ever since that first relationship. Fast forward, I still talk to that girl that I've known for 7 years, but it's depressing knowing that she does not feel the same about me. Seeing her just bothers me so I don't want to talk to her, but we've been good friends for so long I don't want to sever the friendship. Ask yourself this, when you jerk off what image do you jerk off to in your mind? If you jerk off to a female image only ---->straight If you jerk off to a male image only -----> gay If you jerk off to both male and female images ------> bisexual though you can technically be a bisexual man with a stronger preference for women.
Author Jax12 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 Ask yourself this, when you jerk off what image do you jerk off to in your mind? If you jerk off to a female image only ---->straight If you jerk off to a male image only -----> gay If you jerk off to both male and female images ------> bisexual though you can technically be a bisexual man with a stronger preference for women. That doesn't always work, and it especially doesn't in my case. I've been watching porn for 7 years and my tastes have changed dramatically. There could be many reasons as to why you jerk off to the things that get you off. Especially for people like me who are confused at the moment, fantasies/porn usage doesn't conclude anything. A guy could jerk off to male images/videos because of what they think looks attractive in a male body. It's like women comparing their bodies to other women. If a guy seeks relationships with men and jerks off to men then it's safe to say that the individual is probably gay. I'm trying to cut off sex in general, because I don't want sex to be the focal point of a relationship.
you_can_not_see_me Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) That doesn't always work, and it especially doesn't in my case. I've been watching porn for 7 years and my tastes have changed dramatically. There could be many reasons as to why you jerk off to the things that get you off. Especially for people like me who are confused at the moment, fantasies/porn usage doesn't conclude anything. A guy could jerk off to male images/videos because of what they think looks attractive in a male body. It's like women comparing their bodies to other women. If a guy seeks relationships with men and jerks off to men then it's safe to say that the individual is probably gay. I'm trying to cut off sex in general, because I don't want sex to be the focal point of a relationship. dude you are just trying to complicate this. I m not talking about porn. I m saying if your were to try and masturbate without watching porn, just by using your imagination, what would you jerk off to in your head? Its really simple brah. I am starting to think you are trying to make this confusing just cause maybe you don't like what the answer is?! But relax if you are gay or bi its totally fine, enjoy it. Don't have gilt about this stuff. Of course being straight doesn't mean you have to feel disgusted by male bodies, it just means it doesn't sexually arouse you. Edited February 9, 2015 by you_can_not_see_me
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