He sent another woman roses... [UPDATE 2 years later...]

October 13, 2015

He could pay for you to move out and get settled in a new place asap. It's the least he can do for you.

^^^seriously! This!!

What a mess. Sorry you have to deal with it. He ended up being who he can't help being: his own, messy self. This guy was way too fragmented to be with you because he hadn't dealt with anything regarding his marriage, his ex and this woman.

Sometimes love is just not enough, especially when the other person does not have the intent, will or the discipline to open a can of "act right".

November 2, 2015

Can you explain why you've invested so much money? Money for what?

Do you plan to end this relationship now?

Did you get moved? I hope you did.

February 1, 2017

I decided to stay because at the time I just didn't have the funds to leave. Over the last year or so our relationship has significantly improved. I'm now convinced he loves me, and we are happy. I've been able to save money as he allows me to live rent free until my credit cards are paid off.

He did the following to rebuild trust:

I have access to all Facebook and email accounts

I have access at any time to his cell phone including passsords

He tells me he loves me everyday in the morning before work and when I get home after work

He makes dinner everyday because I work late except for Monday nights when he plays golf or goes bowling with his friends

Even though I have no obvious reason to worry, I haven't been able to get past what he did 15 months ago. I love him but with restrictions where my heart will not let him back in. Our sex life is decent but more of a chore for me then pleasure because I can't let him in. I want to but every now and then I still get angry about what he did. What can I do to move on?

February 1, 2017

Wow! Two years wasted so far on a repeat cheater/liar!

Essentially, your life remains in limbo because there is no trust. Rightfully so. A promise is only as good as the person making it. He's shown you that he lies and hides things from you, when it comes to this other woman.

So what if he gave you his Facebook password and access to his email account?!? It takes all of thirty seconds to set up a new email account--very often shared by the two cheaters so that they aren't actually sending emails and creating an electronic trail. Ditto for a new Facebook account or other secret social media accounts. As for that phone? Well, he probably has a burner phone that he hides from you.

All you have with a repeatedly proven liar is the illusion of transparency. His double life will continue. What to do in terms of moving on? Personally, I wouldn't waste my life in limbo over someone I couldn't trust. You'll constantly live in fear of what you might find next, or when the other shoe will drop and you discover there is even more to their relationship than he has led you to believe. That has already happened...twice!

Unfortunately, I think you will continue to stay. As I said at the outset in this thread, I don't see this ending well for you. It's too bad you're dragging things out to the bitter end to discover as much.

Edited February 1, 2017 by angel.eyes

February 1, 2017

Okay. Calm down. If this woman wanted him and she wanted her, I assume they would already be together. I mean, yes, there is a small chance she told him something like, Give me a few months to heal and then we'll talk, but that's usually a soft "no."

I would do two things. I would calmly ask him "You DO understand why this would raise a red flag to me, don't you?" And have that discussion.

And then if he didn't agree to stop it with her, I would invite her to dinner and see for yourself what the dynamic is and to make dang sure she knows he has a woman already. Go message her on Facebook and say, "Hi, ___. Henry (whatever his name is) just told me about your friendship, so I want to have you over for dinner. Feel free to bring a friend if you'd like."

Invite her right into your home. It would be great if you could do it at his home. But wherever you do it, have photos of the two of you sitting around and be sure some men's item is out and visible in the restroom.

As you can imagine, this invitation will likely alarm both of them, but if they're just friends, then he should want you to meet his friends. If it alarms either, then it is not an innocent friendship. If it alarms neither, then you have nothing to worry about. Make the dinner date very soon. No doubt they will have a talk about this.

February 1, 2017

Have you followed the two-year saga?

He lied repeatedly to her about the nature of his relationship with this other woman, how long it went on, the frequency and length of their sexual relationship, etc. The other woman wouldn't have him, otherwise the outcome might have been different.

There have already been ultimatums and agreements to cease further communication with her...all have been left in the dust.

Sadly, there was enough information there when the OP was just dating the guy, but she has since opted to move in with him and somehow no longer wishes to "lose" money moving out. Meanwhile, he continues to contact a woman he once told the OP he would always have a connection with.

February 2, 2017

My last post was like that because I missed the update. In fact I still haven't seen it but I see it noted in the title now.

February 2, 2017

Wow! Two years wasted so far on a repeat cheater/liar!

Essentially, your life remains in limbo because there is no trust. Rightfully so. A promise is only as good as the person making it. He's shown you that he lies and hides things from you, when it comes to this other woman.

So what if he gave you his Facebook password and access to his email account?!? It takes all of thirty seconds to set up a new email account--very often shared by the two cheaters so that they aren't actually sending emails and creating an electronic trail. Ditto for a new Facebook account or other secret social media accounts. As for that phone? Well, he probably has a burner phone that he hides from you.

All you have with a repeatedly proven liar is the illusion of transparency. His double life will continue. What to do in terms of moving on? Personally, I wouldn't waste my life in limbo over someone I couldn't trust. You'll constantly live in fear of what you might find next, or when the other shoe will drop and you discover there is even more to their relationship than he has led you to believe. That has already happened...twice!

Unfortunately, I think you will continue to stay. As I said at the outset in this thread, I don't see this ending well for you. It's too bad you're dragging things out to the bitter end to discover as much.

Thanks for your response. Really I don't believe he is living a double life. However, I can't shake the feeling that I was his second choice, so much that I still bring it up to him after he's tried so hard to convince me thst he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He stated that he moved on with me and didn't give himself enough time to heal, so it left a trail of unresolved issues and it clouded his feelings for me. Now that time has passsed and we built a life together he sees things more clearly now. It appears the ex is engaged to be married and blocked him from all of her social media. Apparently she told another friend that she felt threatened by me and doesn't want any trouble.

The unfortunate part is I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop but 16 months later no other shoe? During this time we have purchased a rental property together and other major purchases mostly his investment but in the both of our names and he speaks of marriage.

Edited February 2, 2017 by beautifulinside2

February 2, 2017

I just found and read the update. I was never able to get back "that feeling" after I knew someone was fickle either. Love but not the passion.

The situation they got close under may have been just about all they had in common and once one or both of them moved on, that may have left them with little to talk about anyway. It may have been what bound them. As long as you are sure he's being open and not hiding stuff, that's about all HE can do to help the situation. But you'll probably never be able to give your all again. I never was. It's like losing your innocence in a way. You have all this hope you project onto someone until they disappoint you.

Only you can know if it's enough. I wouldn't ever be down for having sex with anyone if it was a chore -- and truly, with women, sometimes your body tells you when to leave, unlike men who seem to always be willing to have sex no matter how bad it gets. I don't think you ought to waste your best years with this guy if you can't even enjoy the sex part, personally, but that's me.

February 2, 2017

I just found and read the update. I was never able to get back "that feeling" after I knew someone was fickle either. Love but not the passion.

The situation they got close under may have been just about all they had in common and once one or both of them moved on, that may have left them with little to talk about anyway. It may have been what bound them. As long as you are sure he's being open and not hiding stuff, that's about all HE can do to help the situation. But you'll probably never be able to give your all again. I never was. It's like losing your innocence in a way. You have all this hope you project onto someone until they disappoint you.

Only you can know if it's enough. I wouldn't ever be down for having sex with anyone if it was a chore -- and truly, with women, sometimes your body tells you when to leave, unlike men who seem to always be willing to have sex no matter how bad it gets. I don't think you ought to waste your best years with this guy if you can't even enjoy the sex part, personally, but that's me.

Yes ^^^^^ this. I went into this relationship being the very best me I could be with my guards down, heart open and pure friendship and love. I have never done this with any relationship in my lifetime including my ex husband. Then when he betrayed me the first time I understood because going through a divorce especially under the circumstances could cause you to do and think crazy things. The second time, I didn't leave because (well I don't know). Now I really believe he is over both his ex wife and her, I now feel bitter. I know he loves me very much, but I feel like I am the consolation prize even though I know I brought more to his life then he has ever had. He lived in some fantasy land with this lady its kind strange still thinking about it. Now when I see someone that looks like her I still get mad at him all over again. When I tell him, he says you still think about that as if it should be so far behind me.

Edited February 2, 2017 by beautifulinside2

February 2, 2017

The first person I dated and had sex with when I was freshly separated is now one of my closest friends. We slept together twice and I quickly realized (unrelated to the sex) that the relationship was not right.

Fast forward a year and she is one of my closest friends. I tell her all my dating successes and woes and vice versa. I can say I truly love her but I only platonically.

But here's the thing... I am dating someone now that I'm really really into. Like a lot. Under no circumstances will I be sending anything remotely romantic to my friend because at the end of the day, it would be disrespectful to my girlfriend. If my friend were in desperate times and I felt like she needed it, I would disclose it to my GF and ask her if it was OK because the bottom line is that as much as I love my friend, when I commit to dating others seriously, my romantic partner takes precedence.

So you have to get your BF to explain why it was OK to do what he did and why he didn't tell you.

Also stop checking his email.

February 2, 2017

I am dealing with something similar - a major lie that I chose to work through on my boyfriend's part. We have been together for close to 6 months now. I went into that relationship with so much excitment and hope. I was wiling to go "all in" and was just so happy that I met someone with so much mutual chemistry.

He has never lied about anything since (as far as I know and I am very intuitive). I genuinely beleive that he is very much in love with me. But I don't think I can ever get that sense of pure happiness back again. I can never be all in, I can never look at him quite the same. He treats me so well but the trust has been fractured at the critical time and the crack will never quite mend.

I am very close to making the decision to walk away.

February 2, 2017

However, I can't shake the feeling that I was his second choice

Of course you can't! That's all his actions are saying, but you refuse to react to the writing on the wall.

I'd be surprised if you could suppress your natural reaction to this in the long run.

You will likely always be tainted in his view, just not quite good enough. When he's under stress, annoyed with you or otherwise unhappy he's quite likely to look elsewhere.

I strongly suggest you bail now, before he can hurt you even more. I also second the skepticism on your having access to his accounts. This guarantees nothing.

Bail.

Edited February 2, 2017 by umirano
Formatting

February 3, 2017

The first person I dated and had sex with when I was freshly separated is now one of my closest friends. We slept together twice and I quickly realized (unrelated to the sex) that the relationship was not right.

Fast forward a year and she is one of my closest friends. I tell her all my dating successes and woes and vice versa. I can say I truly love her but I only platonically.

But here's the thing... I am dating someone now that I'm really really into. Like a lot. Under no circumstances will I be sending anything remotely romantic to my friend because at the end of the day, it would be disrespectful to my girlfriend. If my friend were in desperate times and I felt like she needed it, I would disclose it to my GF and ask her if it was OK because the bottom line is that as much as I love my friend, when I commit to dating others seriously, my romantic partner takes precedence.

So you have to get your BF to explain why it was OK to do what he did and why he didn't tell you.

Also stop checking his email.

He says he doesn't know why he did it. He never got closure and hoped he would get her to communicate with him. After his divorce his ego was bruised so he felt he had something to prove. This was 16 months ago he now feels our relationship has grown so far past that.

February 3, 2017

I am dealing with something similar - a major lie that I chose to work through on my boyfriend's part. We have been together for close to 6 months now. I went into that relationship with so much excitment and hope. I was wiling to go "all in" and was just so happy that I met someone with so much mutual chemistry.

He has never lied about anything since (as far as I know and I am very intuitive). I genuinely beleive that he is very much in love with me. But I don't think I can ever get that sense of pure happiness back again. I can never be all in, I can never look at him quite the same. He treats me so well but the trust has been fractured at the critical time and the crack will never quite mend.

I am very close to making the decision to walk away.

I thought with time and love my heart would heal, but it's hardened instead. My heart stays in protective mode, out of fear he will hurt me again. It's gotten better over time so hopefully with a little more time and patience trust will continue to be built. I've seen couples move on and live happy lives who have experienced much worse.

February 3, 2017

Of course you can't! That's all his actions are saying, but you refuse to react to the writing on the wall.

I'd be surprised if you could suppress your natural reaction to this in the long run.

You will likely always be tainted in his view, just not quite good enough. When he's under stress, annoyed with you or otherwise unhappy he's quite likely to look elsewhere.

I strongly suggest you bail now, before he can hurt you even more. I also second the skepticism on your having access to his accounts. This guarantees nothing.

Bail.

So I should bail now after 16 months of him trying to make it right? I haven't had one circumstance since that made me question his love.

February 3, 2017

So I should bail now after 16 months of him trying to make it right? I haven't had one circumstance since that made me question his love.

Just let it go. Not him but the bad feelings you're harboring toward him.

At some point you need to forgive him completely. Until then you are being the roadblock that keeps you unfulfilled in your relationship.

At this point it's no longer about him. It's your choice.

February 3, 2017

So I should bail now after 16 months of him trying to make it right? I haven't had one circumstance since that made me question his love.

In that respect, the problem is now with you and not him. At this point I suggest either you end it since you cannot move on, or go 100% into couples counseling. You need the professional help because you're not able to resolve this on your own (or you would have by now).

I dunno, you're both foolish to get wrapped into these properties together. You shouldn't be doing that in such a young relationship even if it was all great.

I say you end it. There are still deeper problems regarding your self-worth (and probably depression) that I know you haven't resolved. I think you need to be single and figure your life out before you work on a romantic relationship again.

February 3, 2017

So I should bail now after 16 months of him trying to make it right? I haven't had one circumstance since that made me question his love.

Well, it would have been better if you bailed when he ignored your ultimatum about not contacting her. Better late than never, I'd say.

February 3, 2017

I know you're gonna do what you're gonna do, but I'm with Umirano. Cut your losses and don't sink another 2 years into this mess.

February 3, 2017

I don't see why she should walk away. Given that around 50% of people cheat (actually 70% of men according to some statistics) she may as well stay. Most people are currently in relationships/marriages that have something like this going on or worse. Many live in ignorance, many just turn the blind eye.

The ideal of being greatly in mutual love with someone who is also completely honest, ethical and treats you like gold is simply very unrealistic.

February 3, 2017

I dunno, you're both foolish to get wrapped into these properties together. You shouldn't be doing that in such a young relationship even if it was all great.

Exactly, but that I guess is some twisted way of making herself more important in his life and hopefully excluding the other women at the same time.

"WE have investments together, WE are a couple, I am very important to him.." blah blah blah

BUT be very, very careful here.

This guy is perfectly capable of lying to your face, you already know that so I am not sure why you trust him now with your money?

YOU wouldn't be the first woman to be fleeced by a man offering to marry her.

February 3, 2017

So I should bail now after 16 months of him trying to make it right? I haven't had one circumstance since that made me question his love.

But it hasn't been 16 months of him trying! During that 16 months, you caught him TWICE reaching out to her after he agreed to your ultimatums. The only reason they aren't together is she chose a different man despite his repeated outreach and is now marrying that man.

He made it clear for much of your relationship that he would rather be with another woman, but you'll do (bird in the hand) while he secretly chases after what he really wants (bird in the bush). The problem with being Ms. Right Now, is when he finally snags Ms. Right, he'll abruptly dump you. How many years you sink into this is irrelevant in that calculus. There are lots of threads here by Ms. Right Nows upset when they find themselves booted, and he's married six months later to their replacement.

I still stand by my initial assessment two years ago.

February 4, 2017

Exactly, but that I guess is some twisted way of making herself more important in his life and hopefully excluding the other women at the same time.
"WE have investments together, WE are a couple, I am very important to him.." blah blah blah

BUT be very, very careful here.
This guy is perfectly capable of lying to your face, you already know that so I am not sure why you trust him now with your money?
YOU wouldn't be the first woman to be fleeced by a man offering to marry her.

Yes the most obvious reason I feel this way is because he has and is capable of lying to my face. Question: is there a time period for redemption on his behalf? One year and a half has gone past no issues. As far as money I do fine for myself, but remember I haven't paid a house bill in 16 months he pays them all, and the initial investment from the house came from him, he just put my name on it because I help manage it, the renters and collect payments. I'm attempting to move forward from the past and build a life together like normal couples do.

February 4, 2017

But it hasn't been 16 months of him trying! During that 16 months, you caught him TWICE reaching out to her after he agreed to your ultimatums. The only reason they aren't together is she chose a different man despite his repeated outreach and is now marrying that man.

He made it clear for much of your relationship that he would rather be with another woman, but you'll do (bird in the hand) while he secretly chases after what he really wants (bird in the bush). The problem with being Ms. Right Now, is when he finally snags Ms. Right, he'll abruptly dump you. How many years you sink into this is irrelevant in that calculus. There are lots of threads here by Ms. Right Nows upset when they find themselves booted, and he's married six months later to their replacement.

I still stand by my initial assessment two years ago.

Maybe I wasn't very clear. It has been 16 months since the incident October 2015, so he has spent 14 months we have been together since October 2014. I'm having several reservations believing that lady was Ms. Right I think she was actually Ms. Right now because she was the rebound after his marriage ended and they shared an unhealthy connection due to the demise of their marriages and the circumstances surrounding it. Their relationship never left the comforts of his home, never met each other friends, families, kids, only saw one another twice a month over the weekend, it's more of a fantasy in my opinion and he had stated this to me.

He brought up getting married several times, I have been the one hesitant so if he thought I was just Ms. Right now would he want to marry me?

Timeline

I caught him the first time that's when I first found out about her 6 months into dating him. I gave him the ultimatum,

We moved in together during month 8

He contacted her again second time in October 2015 after a year of us being together, I left for 5 days he begged me to come home, he's sorry etc.

Since October 2015 it hasn't happened again.

Edited February 4, 2017 by beautifulinside2

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