Grizzly101 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Just because you want to reconsile does not change that you had strong feelings for the person. It's a break up, especially if it is an EA. It was a process, at least for me it was. I was losing someone that I cared deeply for and ending a friendship that meant a lot. Even though I was doing it for the right reason, I still missed him. I still do. But I look at it as a memory and something that I learned a great deal from.
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Then I guess i am lucky....because i did not grieve one day for him. 3
Cinnimon Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I don't think you can control grief. You may be able to hide it but it doesn't mean is isn't there. 1
JohnAdams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I am sorry, but, if your relationship is such that you need to grieve for the AP, then I have no desire to reconcile. If you do not realize that the affair partner is evil, yes at the time so is the WS, but this is a person willing to break up a marriage and family. This would certainly be a deal breaker for me. I have no sympathy for someone grieving their affair partner. If you are grieving them, be on your way and out of my life before I waste another minute on you. 7
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I don't think you can control grief. You may be able to hide it but it doesn't mean is isn't there. I can only answer for me. I did not hide my grief because i did not have any. I was not in love with the AP. I understand there may be those WS here who were in love with the AP and had an ongoing long relationship with the AP. I did not. I only knew my AP a short time. So I truly had no emotional connection to him...and since I am married to John and that would have been a deal breaker for him...I am REALLY glad I did not. 2
Cinnimon Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 But only one could break up the marriage and family and that is the one who cheated right? I mean no cheating means no AP.
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 But only one could break up the marriage and family and that is the one who cheated right? I mean no cheating means no AP. I am not sure what you are asking. I am the one who is responsible...I made the choice to cheat....I am the one who betrayed my husband. Do marriages break up where infidelity is NOT involved? Of course they do....does the blame fall on both the marriage partners? of course. But where infidelity is involved...the WS is responsible because they are the ones who made the choice to cheat....and failed to ask the permission of the BS. 2
JohnAdams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 But where infidelity is involved...the WS is responsible because they are the ones who made the choice to cheat....and failed to ask the permission of the BS. This is hard enough to try to recover from, but add on grieving for the AP, no way! 3
Cinnimon Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I am sorry, but, if your relationship is such that you need to grieve for the AP, then I have no desire to reconcile. If you do not realize that the affair partner is evil, yes at the time so is the WS, but this is a person willing to break up a marriage and family. This would certainly be a deal breaker for me. I have no sympathy for someone grieving their affair partner. If you are grieving them, be on your way and out of my life before I waste another minute on you. My question was referring to this post. He said this ap person is evil, that this a person willing to break up a marriage and family. What I was trying to say is if there was no WS there would be no AP to break up a marriage and family. So the blame should be equal.
JohnAdams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) My question was referring to this post. He said this ap person is evil, that this a person willing to break up a marriage and family. What I was trying to say is if there was no WS there would be no AP to break up a marriage and family. So the blame should be equal. Perhaps, though, you did, at least most likely love your spouse. The AP represents pure evil. Who was pursuing who? Was the AP a player who got his jollies by pursuing married women? All cases are different. But mourning an AP when trying to reconcile is completely wrong. Edited February 17, 2015 by JohnAdams 3
Author jbrent890 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 Just because you want to reconsile does not change that you had strong feelings for the person. It's a break up, especially if it is an EA. It was a process, at least for me it was. I was losing someone that I cared deeply for and ending a friendship that meant a lot. Even though I was doing it for the right reason, I still missed him. I still do. But I look at it as a memory and something that I learned a great deal from. I don't want this to sound mean, but that's your problem. You let it get that far. Finding out that your spouse cheated is one thing, seeing them mourn their AP is completely unfair and I understand why it ends marriages. I know without a shadow of a doubt that if I had to see my wife mourn her AP, that would be the end of the marriage. This entire process has taught me that I can put up with a lot, but that's the last straw. A line has to be drawn somewhere. 10
fellini Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I think there is some massive mis-thinking here. I will grant you that a one lunch stand with a womanising prof meant without question that if you say you were not "in love" with him, you weren't. I can see that. But the stories that others are telling here, as a WS and as a BS (my case) are not about one night romps. My wife was IN LOVE with her AP, probably not as much as he with her. She had been pursuing him for over a year and a half. So let's get something straight here: 1. There is no way in hell a woman who has had an 18 month EA and a 3 month PA is going to turn off her feelings like a light switch. Obviously. So for those of you who claim if you WW needed to grieve you are done, well, call a lawyer. There is no way in hell she is not going to "detox" "grieve" "detach" "disconnect" "miss" "mourn" or whatever word you want to use: Thinking that is pure denial. 2. No one said you have to embrace a "grieving" WS. There are many ways to handle grief. But NOT handling it means its a potential timebomb. 3. I still maintain that there are two phases involved: RECOVERY and then RECONCILIATION. Going from DDAY directly to RECONCILIATION makes zero sense to me. It would involve enormous rugsweeping and denial and blameshifting. So no, I don't think a BS needs to see his WS grieve during the process of reconciliation. I expect that work to be done during RECOVERY. But in my case, my WS compartamentalised her AP and later found her mind wandering back to him some 8 months later. It was not about grief, it was the danger that NOT "detoxing" herself meant she was vulnerable to triggering those same emotions she loved and was addicted to during her A. I think only those who have legitimately entered into reconciliation with a WS who believed to be "in love with" her AP will understand these issues properly. Even our Mr. Smith has begun to speak of "should of" "would of" about a condition he did NOT have to experience: his WS being in love with an AP was not on the table. 10
Author jbrent890 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 I think there is some massive mis-thinking here. I will grant you that a one lunch stand with a womanising prof meant without question that if you say you were not "in love" with him, you weren't. I can see that. But the stories that others are telling here, as a WS and as a BS (my case) are not about one night romps. My wife was IN LOVE with her AP, probably not as much as he with her. She had been pursuing him for over a year and a half. So let's get something straight here: 1. There is no way in hell a woman who has had an 18 month EA and a 3 month PA is going to turn off her feelings like a light switch. Obviously. So for those of you who claim if you WW needed to grieve you are done, well, call a lawyer. There is no way in hell she is not going to "detox" "grieve" "detach" "disconnect" "miss" "mourn" or whatever word you want to use: Thinking that is pure denial. 2. No one said you have to embrace a "grieving" WS. There are many ways to handle grief. But NOT handling it means its a potential timebomb. 3. I still maintain that there are two phases involved: RECOVERY and then RECONCILIATION. Going from DDAY directly to RECONCILIATION makes zero sense to me. It would involve enormous rugsweeping and denial and blameshifting. So no, I don't think a BS needs to see his WS grieve during the process of reconciliation. I expect that work to be done during RECOVERY. But in my case, my WS compartamentalised her AP and later found her mind wandering back to him some 8 months later. It was not about grief, it was the danger that NOT "detoxing" herself meant she was vulnerable to triggering those same emotions she loved and was addicted to during her A. I think only those who have legitimately entered into reconciliation with a WS who believed to be "in love with" her AP will understand these issues properly. Even our Mr. Smith has begun to speak of "should of" "would of" about a condition he did NOT have to experience: his WS being in love with an AP was not on the table. I understand what you are saying, but you're missing my point. I don't expect for the WS to just turn it off. But I do think it speaks volumes about the WS that lets the relationship get to that point. If I saw that my wife was so in deep that she would have to detox from the relationship, then I would more than likely not R in the first place. And I have a feeling on what you are going to say "you don't know until you're put in that position." The thing is I do know. I believe whole heartedly that the BS needs to protect their sanity first, and purposely watching my wife mourn her affair or AP would be one of the most masochistic things I can do to myself. Again, for the WS to let it get to that point is there problem. 2
autumnnight Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I'm sure a WS will go through withdrawal and sadness. To me, this is where a good IC who is a friend of the marriage comes in. Or a trusted female friend who is a friend of the marriage. I'm not sure the "breakup comfort" should fall to the BS.
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 This is why I said I was lucky...because I know it would have been too much for John to handle. Pleases keep in mind..we are not saying what is right for us is right for others. If you can handle your WS grieving for the ap...then you are much stronger better person than we are. We are not judging anyone we just said what we could not endure. One of my dear friends...pursued the ap and had a physical affair for 15 months....she grieved for the ap as her husband held her in his arms. Bless his heart! That is amazing to me....but I know John could never do that. I am happy for my friend...they are three years into r and doing well. 2
Buckeye2 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I can only answer for me. I did not hide my grief because i did not have any. I was not in love with the AP. I understand there may be those WS here who were in love with the AP and had an ongoing long relationship with the AP. I did not. I only knew my AP a short time. So I truly had no emotional connection to him...and since I am married to John and that would have been a deal breaker for him...I am REALLY glad I did not. I’m not trying to cause trouble and I may be remembering incorrectly. At one point didn’t you tell John that you would have left him for the OM if the OM had asked?
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Yes. John says I said that. I don't recall it..but if he says I did...I am certain I did. One of those I said too much moments? Does that mean I loved him? Does that mean I had to detox over him? Does that mean I grieved for him? No, no, and no. 1
Confused48 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 This is hard enough to try to recover from, but add on grieving for the AP, no way! You can't know what you will do until you are put to the test. Few of the people in recon ever thought they would be giving a second chance to the cheater in their lives, whatever their particular circumstances. They are all shocked to find themselves giving the second chance be it to discovery of a ONS, or a long term EA or long term EA with PA or serial cheating EA with PA. Whatever, the nightmare scenario you imagine would make you kick the cheater to the curb, until you are tested you are just giving an uneducated guess as to how you would react. Wishful thinking. 1
JohnAdams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I agree, you never know until it happens to you. I never thought I would stay even in our situation. I do think I was stretched to the limit. Pining for the AP would just add additional insult that at least in my mind would put it over the top. We are all different and I agree we do not know our limit until it is tested. I am just glad I did not have to find out if that was my limit. 4
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Confused..you are correct...we never know how we would react until we are in the situation. But I do think it is probably pretty safe to say..John had already tolerated more than he ever thought he could. We could have kept drawing lines in the sand...and he might have kept stepping over them. He might have been able to withstand much more than he thought. But thankfully....in our situation...he did not have to.
Confused48 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I am sorry, but, if your relationship is such that you need to grieve for the AP, then I have no desire to reconcile. If you do not realize that the affair partner is evil, yes at the time so is the WS, but this is a person willing to break up a marriage and family. Yes the AP acted evil. Yes the WS was evil as well. You may very well not want to recon with someone like that. I certainly would not with someone unrepentant. I think you confuse a lack of repentance and remorse though with natural feelings of loss. A WS can feel remorse for the BS, the affair, AND at the same time feel a deep sense of loss about the AP. While in the A and shortly after Dday, especially a Dday brought on suddenly by the BS, the WS and AP are going to be in denial about their evil deeds. They would be deep into justification, blame shifting and entitlement, in their own heads at least. They would have to or else be totally soulless creatures who will to do great harm to others with no concern for anyone else. I think people like that are rare. I think it is much more likely that two, more or less normal people, just get caught up in the infatuation and don't heed the warning signs till too late. So when it ends, they suffer greatly, for a great many reasons. One of which though is bound to be suffering the loss of what they viewed as a valuable relationship with a great person. Hopefully in time they realize that person was not great but... during the A and shortly after, it could only be otherwise if you are really a very unusually evil and predatory person. Certainly not a good candidate for recon. No one should feel obligated to recon or even forgive a WS for becoming so heartless and evil. Still, even people who don't forgive the WS, even they can have compassion for the WS. To see that person you once loved enough to marry, so greatly devastated by their own bad choices, that can be something that you want to console them over, whether or not you still harbor resentment and anger. You can still have compassion. I think the greater the pain of the WS for this loss, the more likely to bring out compassion. Great suffering in others normally makes one feel empathy and compassion. Even if it is your enemies that are suffering. At least that is how I'm wired. I would not change that about myself if I could. 1
DKT3 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I believe that most betrayed spouses "get it" when there is an emotional connection that it may take time. However, not only did the WS have the affair but also having the idea that its somehow exceptable to want or expect the BS to hold their hand while they are mourning the lost of a AP is as cruel as the affair itself. The way I would have viewed it, is no matter the pain she caused me with the affair, no matter the fact that I needed her validation and reassurance her focus and heart is losing the AP. Really? So that says to me, that her staying in the marriage is causing her pain and the fact that her focus is on her pain of missing him and not my pain for her being with him in the first place, I'm her default, fall back or comfort zone and clearly not the man she loves. What would be the point? In my mind I would forever be her second choice. She may miss him, but I don't want to watch it, I wouldn't have watched it. 2
Confused48 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 It occurs to me that all of the responders who say they could not handle seeing a WS detox from and A are BS that did not have to witness that. I could be wrong but I think everyone that posted saying they did have a WS in withdrawal from the A, had a compassionate reaction to that. Maybe we are all more compassionate than we realize. I'd be interested to hear from any BS that was going to possibly consider recon but then when faced with a WS grieving the loss of the AP, they then decided not to reconcile. 2
ladydesigner Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 My WS never ended his A after first Dday so whatever detoxing he was doing wasn't happening. I wouldn't have put up with it that's for sure. I would have had not one ounce of empathy for him.
fellini Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 No I can assure you I get the points that you and others are saying. You see I was that same man. thinking of my limits generally I always thought that I could handle a ONS in previous relationships. But i can assure you that I had zero tolerance expectations with my wife because I married a person who I never ever in my mind could ever imagine would cheat - not on me or any one else. That is the woman I thought i married. So if someone had asked me what I would do if my wife cheated, I would have said, she would never. And if push came to shove and i had to comit to an answer - I know, I suppose in the same way you just know, that her falling in love with another would be the end of everything between us. That is where I was pre dday. We'll it happened. And I'm here reconciling. So i am with those who say you never really know your limits until they are tested. I understand what you are saying, but you're missing my point. I don't expect for the WS to just turn it off. But I do think it speaks volumes about the WS that lets the relationship get to that point. If I saw that my wife was so in deep that she would have to detox from the relationship, then I would more than likely not R in the first place. And I have a feeling on what you are going to say "you don't know until you're put in that position." The thing is I do know. I believe whole heartedly that the BS needs to protect their sanity first, and purposely watching my wife mourn her affair or AP would be one of the most masochistic things I can do to myself. Again, for the WS to let it get to that point is there problem. 1
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