Which attitude is more attractive? Confidence or modesty?

[Phoe]

As an example, this is how my brother and me were brought up.

 

When we were kids and out in the public, at a store for example, we were strictly told not to touch anything. We were also told not to speak when adults were speaking and never to interrupt the parents when they had company. If we tried, we were completely ignored. We were criticized often and never complimented. Saying anything positive about yourself was beleived to attract bad luck. Most other children in my home country were brought up the same.

 

Yet here, in western countries I keep observing children being total brats, wrecking havoc everywhere they go and parents regularly stopping all conversation to give their child undivided attention. Children are told constantly that they are gorgeous and smart. They grow up with totally unrealistic view of themselves.

 

Unfortunately most people don't look behind the surface. It is even more true in dating. I found that in work settings while being self-depreciating will hurt you, you can still go far by producing consistent, measurable, quality outcomes. Dating is much more subjective and much more about perception.

 

I too find it interesting the different ways children are raised indifferent cultures.

 

I grew up here in California, but my parents never complimented me or gave me undue attention...

 

The only compliment I got was that I was smart. And that wasn't an all the time thing, it was when I had done something in particular to deserve being called smart... like getting college level scores on reading tests as a 3rd grader. I was definitely a very intelligent child and my parents would tell me so if I accomplished it.

 

But being told I was pretty, or amazing, or the best child in the world and all sorts of other stuff? No. What would be the point?

 

And indeed, I was taught to be quiet, polite, never cause a scene, and wait my turn.

 

I remember a time when I was little that I got accused of doing something that I didn't do, and my mother flipped on me in an instant. I didn't even get a chance to defend myself and explain that I hadn't done it. It didn't matter, in my mom's mind there was no risking me accidentally going unpunished in the event that I HAD done this. I remember being so indignant at the time, but now I understand.

 

So, because of my upbringing I don't see any value in the "I'm so fantastic and I'm so amazing and I'm gorgeous and special!" mindset.

 

Just because I'm a realist about what I am or am not, doesn't mean I'm "negative" or "a loser" or have "low self esteem". I'm a totally normal person!

[xxoo]

But being told I was pretty, or amazing, or the best child in the world and all sorts of other stuff? No. What would be the point?

 

It's just fun to gush over your child I really do believe they ARE amazing, although I realize they are also normal. Normal children are amazing to me.

 

I remember a time when I was little that I got accused of doing something that I didn't do, and my mother flipped on me in an instant. I didn't even get a chance to defend myself and explain that I hadn't done it. It didn't matter, in my mom's mind there was no risking me accidentally going unpunished in the event that I HAD done this. I remember being so indignant at the time, but now I understand.

 

I don't understand. What is the benefit for this approach?

[Haydn]

I too find it interesting the different ways children are raised indifferent cultures.

 

I grew up here in California, but my parents never complimented me or gave me undue attention...

 

The only compliment I got was that I was smart. And that wasn't an all the time thing, it was when I had done something in particular to deserve being called smart... like getting college level scores on reading tests as a 3rd grader. I was definitely a very intelligent child and my parents would tell me so if I accomplished it.

 

But being told I was pretty, or amazing, or the best child in the world and all sorts of other stuff? No. What would be the point?

 

And indeed, I was taught to be quiet, polite, never cause a scene, and wait my turn.

 

I remember a time when I was little that I got accused of doing something that I didn't do, and my mother flipped on me in an instant. I didn't even get a chance to defend myself and explain that I hadn't done it. It didn't matter, in my mom's mind there was no risking me accidentally going unpunished in the event that I HAD done this. I remember being so indignant at the time, but now I understand.

 

So, because of my upbringing I don't see any value in the "I'm so fantastic and I'm so amazing and I'm gorgeous and special!" mindset.

 

Just because I'm a realist about what I am or am not, doesn't mean I'm "negative" or "a loser" or have "low self esteem". I'm a totally normal person!

 

I don`t understand how this is good? I would give my kiddies a chance to speak out and take it from there.

[Eighty_nine]

I too find it interesting the different ways children are raised indifferent cultures.

 

I grew up here in California, but my parents never complimented me or gave me undue attention...

 

The only compliment I got was that I was smart. And that wasn't an all the time thing, it was when I had done something in particular to deserve being called smart... like getting college level scores on reading tests as a 3rd grader. I was definitely a very intelligent child and my parents would tell me so if I accomplished it.

 

But being told I was pretty, or amazing, or the best child in the world and all sorts of other stuff? No. What would be the point?

 

And indeed, I was taught to be quiet, polite, never cause a scene, and wait my turn.

person!

 

The point? The world is harsh. Your family is supposed to love you unconditionally, more than anyone. When kids face the real world (cold, harsh, unforgiving), they'll either have the positive complimentary loving words of their parents in the back of their mind to boost them up or they'll be going it alone. I'm a big fan and go out of my way to compliment kids (my niece in particular) on how funny, smart, cute, and sweet they are.

 

Also I hate the whole children should be "seen not heard" thing. It's sad. Kids should be encouraged to laugh, cry, scream, express their curiosity etc etc.

[autumnnight]

OP, you're thinking too hard and making things way too complicated. Just BE

[Phoe]

I don`t understand how this is good? I would give my kiddies a chance to speak out and take it from there.

 

I don't understand. What is the benefit for this approach?

 

It benefitted me because I learned that NO MATTER WHAT, I wouldn't get away with something.

 

Children lie to not get in trouble all the time.

 

Perhaps I could've been lying and said "I didn't do it!" and my mother believed me, then I would've had the idea in my head "haha, I can lie to my mom to get away with things."

 

Never a problem, and as a result I was exceptionally well behaved. It was rare that I ever did anything to deserve a scolding in the first place, and it was that one and only time that I was wrongfully accused.

 

The point? The world is harsh. Your family is supposed to love you unconditionally, more than anyone. When kids face the real world (cold, harsh, unforgiving), they'll either have the positive complimentary loving words of their parents in the back of their mind to boost them up or they'll be going it alone. I'm a big fan and go out of my way to compliment kids (my niece in particular) on how funny, smart, cute, and sweet they are.

 

Also I hate the whole children should be "seen not heard" thing. It's sad. Kids should be encouraged to laugh, cry, scream, express their curiosity etc etc.

 

Just because my parents didn't coddle me with words of affirmation doesn't mean I ever was "going it alone". They've always loved me unconditionally, supported me, and encouraged me.

 

They just did not coddle me and they treated me like a mature human being at an early age. I was encouraged to be responsible for myself and for my actions at an early age.

 

I like the way I was raised. I'm very happy with my parents' choice. It's not for every child, but it was great for me.

 

Some children NEED affection and words of affirmation. I never did. And I still don't need that from others.

 

I didn't want to be hugged and kissed and petted and cooed over and tucked in at night, etc. I wanted my own space and responsibility to do things on my own terms.

 

Different people (children included), have different responses to different displays of love and care. Coddling and babying and being extra affectionate is not a one size fits all way to raise a child. There ISN'T a one size fits all way.

[Haydn]

It benefitted me because I learned that NO MATTER WHAT, I wouldn't get away with something.

 

Children lie to not get in trouble all the time.

 

Perhaps I could've been lying and said "I didn't do it!" and my mother believed me, then I would've had the idea in my head "haha, I can lie to my mom to get away with things."

 

Never a problem, and as a result I was exceptionally well behaved. It was rare that I ever did anything to deserve a scolding in the first place, and it was that one and only time that I was wrongfully accused.

 

 

 

Just because my parents didn't coddle me with words of affirmation doesn't mean I ever was "going it alone". They've always loved me unconditionally, supported me, and encouraged me.

 

They just did not coddle me and they treated me like a mature human being at an early age. I was encouraged to be responsible for myself and for my actions at an early age.

 

I like the way I was raised. I'm very happy with my parents' choice. It's not for every child, but it was great for me.

 

Some children NEED affection and words of affirmation. I never did. And I still don't need that from others.

 

I didn't want to be hugged and kissed and petted and cooed over and tucked in at night, etc. I wanted my own space and responsibility to do things on my own terms.

 

Different people (children included), have different responses to different displays of love and care. Coddling and babying and being extra affectionate is not a one size fits all way to raise a child. There ISN'T a one size fits all way.

 

True but a good parent can sniff out the ....(Its true) My girls can be diva`s but it don`t work.

 

If you had been hugged and kissed from the start maybe you wouldn`t think this. My girls are tactile, like me. I was hugged a lot. And punished a lot.

 

A well behaved child is not quite right. Kids should be naughty. (Maybe just me)

 

You are right, One size does not fit all.

[Phoe]

True but a good parent can sniff out the ....(Its true) My girls can be diva`s but it don`t work.

 

If you had been hugged and kissed from the start maybe you wouldn`t think this. My girls are tactile, like me. I was hugged a lot. And punished a lot.

 

A well behaved child is not quite right. Kids should be naughty. (Maybe just me)

 

You are right, One size does not fit all.

 

Lol, so you're saying I'm not quite right? That's ridiculous.

 

I never wanted to be naughty. It made me proud that I was a good kid. I always heard stories from some other kids about the bad things they'd do or say, and how theyd be grounded all the time and I'd just think "What? I would never act like that... that doesn't sound like fun at all and I would feel really bad and regret it all."

 

I WAS hugged and kissed at first. I reached a point as a toddler where I did not like it. I never wanted it. My grandma always did it despite my dislike of it, and she never stopped. Always wanted to hold me on her lap and I just wanted my distance. Touchy feely tactile affection makes me feel stifled and suffocated.

 

Some children just are not tactile and don't want the physical affection. Haven't you ever seen the little kid who grimaces and struggles to get away when their mother squeezes them tightly and then quickly wipes away the kisses?

 

My mother is an elementary school teacher and is VERY gifted with children. She has a distinct reputation. Parents camp out in front of her school to be first in line for enrollment, to get their children in her class.

 

She tailors her approach based on what every individual child needs. There are many children who she is very affectionate and soft with. Some of her students have been known to call her on the phone at home, inconsolable. She comforts them and makes them feel better. There are others who she will be silly and joke around with. Others require a more stern approach to get the child interested and engaged. Every child is different and she picks up on cues very quickly to sense what is going to work best for that child.

 

Can't you imagine that she did the same with me? She picked up quickly that I was not a tactile and affectionate child. I did not want touchy feely. I did not want kisses (I turned away). I did not want words of affirmation. I was VERY logical and would immediatey question anything of the sort. I wanted to be treated like an adult, and I wanted responsibility, even at a very young age. So, she gave me what I needed.

[Eighty_nine]

 

Some children NEED affection and words of affirmation. I never did. And I still don't need that from others.

 

 

It's a well researched and proven fact that all children need these things.

Not saying your parents didn't give this to you, there are various ways of doing so. But healthy development requires affection and affirmation.

[Haydn]

Lol, so you're saying I'm not quite right? That's ridiculous.

 

I never wanted to be naughty. It made me proud that I was a good kid. I always heard stories from some other kids about the bad things they'd do or say, and how theyd be grounded all the time and I'd just think "What? I would never act like that... that doesn't sound like fun at all and I would feel really bad and regret it all."

 

I WAS hugged and kissed at first. I reached a point as a toddler where I did not like it. I never wanted it. My grandma always did it despite my dislike of it, and she never stopped. Always wanted to hold me on her lap and I just wanted my distance. Touchy feely tactile affection makes me feel stifled and suffocated.

 

 

Some children just are not tactile and don't want the physical affection. Haven't you ever seen the little kid who grimaces and struggles to get away when their mother squeezes them tightly and then quickly wipes away the kisses?

 

My mother is an elementary school teacher and is VERY gifted with children. She has a distinct reputation. Parents camp out in front of her school to be first in line for enrollment, to get their children in her class.

 

She tailors her approach based on what every individual child needs. There are many children who she is very affectionate and soft with. Some of her students have been known to call her on the phone at home, inconsolable. She comforts them and makes them feel better. There are others who she will be silly and joke around with. Others require a more stern approach to get the child interested and engaged. Every child is different and she picks up on cues very quickly to sense what is going to work best for that child.

 

Can't you imagine that she did the same with me? She picked up quickly that I was not a tactile and affectionate child. I did not want touchy feely. I did not want kisses (I turned away). I did not want words of affirmation. I was VERY logical and would immediatey question anything of the sort. I wanted to be treated like an adult, and I wanted responsibility, even at a very young age. So, she gave me what I needed.

 

Sorry but i`ve never come across a kid who was not naughty. Including myself and my kiddies. It can be fun. But maybe we are at cross purposes and thinking of levels of naughtiness? I cannot believe you were never a `handful` at times in you`re childhood and you accepted everything?

[Phoe]

It's a well researched and proven fact that all children need these things.

Not saying your parents didn't give this to you, there are various ways of doing so. But healthy development requires affection and affirmation.

 

Like you said, there are various ways of doing so.

 

I was never interested in physical affection. I never wanted sweet words...

 

My parents showed me they affection and affirmation in alternative ways. I wanted my parents to show that they were proud of me. I wanted them to show me that they trusted me. I wanted them to give me responsibility and treat me like I mature person. I wanted them to push and encourage me in everything, and then be happy for me when I achieved that.

 

THAT is what I wanted. Not hugs and kisses.

 

My dad showed me his love everytime he drove me to softball practice. He showed me love by being present at every game. He showed me love by throwing the ball back and forth in the backyard until sundown.

 

I forget what exactly it's called, but there's a quiz out there about "languages of love"

 

it can range from words of affirmation, to physical closeness, to giving gifts, to spending quality time, and gestures.

 

For me, quality time and gestures have ALWAYS been my "language of love".

[Rejected Rosebud]

:sick: I get the whole everybody gets a trophy thing is ridiculous but the "special snowflake" that gets so much slack, well, everybody actually is kind of a special snowflake and GOOD parents are going to find what that special good thing is and nurture it, the idea that it is a POSITIVE thing to punish children for things they didn't do so they get the idea that they will never get away with anything … well I just can't. Or NEVER praising your children. I'm sorry but in what world would those things turn out to be a benefit??? Show me some well adjusted happy people who were raised like that, it sounds more like a recipe for years of therapy to get over, I'm sorry but that's what it seems like!!

[thecrucible]

I didn't get a lot of affection or compliments growing up. I always craved them. So I would try and impress my teachers so I could get some praise from them. But if I did anything wrong, I'd get shouted at and sometimes for things I didn't even do. I developed depression as a teenager trying to process that feeling of not receiving enough attention and went to an abusive guy. I also had self-esteem and self-harm issues. I got told that I was a failure for this - then when I complained I was told that it was supposed to motivate me but didn't get any kind of apology. I hope I'm not painting an entirely negative portrait of my childhood or parents because I certainly don't feel that way. But I do feel that I have learnt to do things for myself but I can't self-soothe...I often feel as if I'm not good enough or perfect enough and that I'm being judged....I wasn't a terrible child either - I came almost top of my class, was a consistent high achiever. But I'd always beat myself up for not being the very best. I sometimes wonder if life had gone better for me had I not felt unsupported to some degree. My parents told me I didn't need compliments because I was well-behaved and did well at school.

[Haydn]

Like you said, there are various ways of doing so.

 

I was never interested in physical affection. I never wanted sweet words...

 

My parents showed me they affection and affirmation in alternative ways. I wanted my parents to show that they were proud of me. I wanted them to show me that they trusted me. I wanted them to give me responsibility and treat me like I mature person. I wanted them to push and encourage me in everything, and then be happy for me when I achieved that.

 

THAT is what I wanted. Not hugs and kisses.

 

My dad showed me his love everytime he drove me to softball practice. He showed me love by being present at every game. He showed me love by throwing the ball back and forth in the backyard until sundown.

I forget what exactly it's called, but there's a quiz out there about "languages of love"

 

it can range from words of affirmation, to physical closeness, to giving gifts, to spending quality time, and gestures.

 

For me, quality time and gestures have ALWAYS been my "language of love".

 

I do that with my kids. (Different sports) But i use words when i do things with my girls. Quality time, cuddles, kisses, (Destroy that centre forward when she has the ball!) `Take her out with a nasty tackle` Great character buliding.

[Phoe]

Sorry but i`ve never come across a kid who was not naughty. Including myself and my kiddies. It can be fun. But maybe we are at cross purposes and thinking of levels of naughtiness? I cannot believe you were never a `handful` at times in you`re childhood and you accepted everything?

 

My parents will tell anyone to this day, that I was not a handful. I can't even think of an instance where I seriously got in trouble for something. I never got grounded, because I never did anything worthy of grounding.

 

I came CLOSE to getting grounded once when I got a B in English, but that's solely because they knew that I was capable of an A and was just being lazy.

 

I got no pleasure out of being naughty. Naughty things weren't fun to me. So why would I do it.

 

"Let me go and do something that I get no pleasure from, just to get punished for it" - no thanks!

 

I was the kid that gushed with happiness to get the "perfect attendance" award at school.

 

I was the kid who's heart swelled with pride when teachers told my parents what a well behaved kid I was and what I joy I was to have in the classroom.

 

I believed in authority, and believed in the rules, and stuck to that because it's what made my little heart happy.

 

Just because you've personally never seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist and certainly doesn't mean that such a child is "not right".

[Phoe]

I do that with my kids. (Different sports) But i use words when i do things with my girls. Quality time, cuddles, kisses, (Destroy that centre forward when she has the ball!) `Take her out with a nasty tackle` Great character buliding.

 

That's great that it works for you and your kids.

 

I'm just saying that the tactile didn't work for me, and doesn't work with all children.

 

I know a 6 year old right now who hates it. His mother LOVES to be snuggly and cuddly and kiss on her kids, but he happens to not be interested. He'd rather have some physical distance.

 

And it doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with a child.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Wow Phoe you sound almost too perfect!! Lucky!

[xxoo]

I was a very obedient, quiet, well behaved child, too. One sibling (same parents) was the opposite. Some of it is just personality.

 

But all of us were encouraged and loved on. We are all functional adults, married, gainfully employed, without any major issues impeding our pursuit of happiness. I can't find fault with the love we were given as kids.

[Haydn]

That's great that it works for you and your kids.

 

I'm just saying that the tactile didn't work for me, and doesn't work with all children.

 

I know a 6 year old right now who hates it. His mother LOVES to be snuggly and cuddly and kiss on her kids, but he happens to not be interested. He'd rather have some physical distance.

 

And it doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with a child.

 

I don`t think there is anything wrong with a child who behaves like this.

 

Were you bullied at school? By the other kids?

[Phoe]

I was a very obedient, quiet, well behaved child, too. One sibling (same parents) was the opposite. Some of it is just personality.

 

But all of us were encouraged and loved on. We are all functional adults, married, gainfully employed, without any major issues impeding our pursuit of happiness. I can't find fault with the love we were given as kids.

 

Indeed, I'm a functional and happy adult as well!

 

I am very happy with how I was raised. My mother respected what I wanted and raised me accordingly and I am thrilled with that.

 

My grandmother though, wanted none of it, haha. She knew I didn't like affection and would squeeze me and pull me into her lap and kiss me all over my face and pet my hair and I would scramble and struggle to break free and she'd just keep at it like "nope, you are my only grandchild and I waited 60 years for this!!"

 

haha.

 

I suppose I just always had that "personal bubble". Didn't care who you were, don't invade my bubble, haha.

 

Doesn't mean I'm off or some kind of a nut.

[Phoe]

I don`t think there is anything wrong with a child who behaves like this.

 

Were you bullied at school? By the other kids?

 

I was bullied mercilessly from when I was 4 until I was 17.

 

I got spit on, got my food spit in, had mustard squirted all over me, a boy kicked me in the face and gave me a black eye once, I got pushed into the pavement so often my mother gave up on the hope of me wearing clothes without ripped knees. I got rocks thrown at me, I got locked in lockers, I got trash canned, I got my hair ripped out. In middle school a boy put baby powder on his hand and smacked my face as hard as he could.

 

Didn't help that I developed breasts early. Then all through middle school and high school came the rumors that I was a slut. Truth was I'd never even been kissed.

 

Finally, senior year of high school, I transferred to a new school. I was 17, and I was very comfortable with who I was a person, and I liked myself. Everyone at my new school was NICE to me. People genuinely wanted to be my friend, and I flourished. I adored that school and wished I would've transferred sooner.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I was bullied mercilessly from when I was 4 until I was 17.

 

I got spit on, got my food spit in, had mustard squirted all over me, a boy kicked me in the face and gave me a black eye once, I got pushed into the pavement so often my mother gave up on the hope of me wearing clothes without ripped knees. I got rocks thrown at me, I got locked in lockers, I got trash canned, I got my hair ripped out. In middle school a boy put baby powder on his hand and smacked my face as hard as he could.

 

Phoe, what the hell???

[Phoe]

Phoe, what the hell???

 

Alot of kids get bullied at some time or another... I was not immune.

 

I was openly nerdy and a bookworm, an unfortunate obvious target.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Alot of kids get bullied at some time or another... I was not immune.

 

I was openly nerdy and a bookworm, an unfortunate obvious target.

 

No, I understand that, believe me. I was bullied from second grade on. Sometimes severely - including fights - but the number of physical assaults you encountered is startling. Especially by boys. That's like, way beyond bullying, that's flipping battery.

[Phoe]

Phoe, what the hell???

 

A few people have come to me later and made amends on it.

 

The boy who smacked me with baby powder eventually got sent away to a juvenile military bootcamp and came back with a total attitude adjustment.

 

I remember one girl who endlessly threatened to kick the crap out of me, who made my life miserable... she was always spouting off. I remember one time she messed with the wrong girl.

 

I always ate out in the courtyard with my friends, it was a bit more quiet and out of the way there. We could lay out and relax until the next class.... one lunch time the girl who had bullied me endlessly got the crap kicked out of her by 1 much bigger girl and her 2 friends. It happened a mere 5 feet away from me.

 

Her shirt got ripped to shreds as she got thrown to the concrete. Her necklace and earrings got ripped off of her. Chunks of hair got ripped out, her face and shoulders were scratched deep. I watched frozen as the bigger girl punched the side of her head over and over... as she got up to walk away, she came back and smacked her head against the concrete one more time... I still remember the sound. Then as she walked away her 2 friends came and gave her a quick kick before leaving.

 

She just lay on the floor sobbing. I stood there in shock as she made eye contact with me. My heart sunk, and I started gathering up her earrings and the remnants of her necklace. I scooped up her backpack and walked her to the principal's office.

 

She never said a word, but she also never bullied me again.