Which attitude is more attractive? Confidence or modesty?

[JuneJulySeptember]

I find it just as interesting that you think that "my career is so-so, I'm not that attractive, I could do better" is medium! Only the final statement about "doing better" is remotely upbeat. The rest just sounds mediocre. And mediocre might aswell be "total self-deprecating loser", it amounts to the same value to most people.

 

"I'm not attractive, my career sucks and I'm kinda boring" is even more hyperbolic, granted. Number 2 might not be depressed, but they certainly need help talking about themselves . I get it, I used to sound like number 2 as a teen, then I stopped that.

 

I actually think it's kind of attractive when a woman has said something like "Eh. You know, I'm not especially good looking."

 

I've heard it a few times. I consider that modesty and think others would find it attractive. Then again, I'm pretty much completely off on my impression of what qualities/thoughts/actions people respect for my whole life.

[Phoe]

So then, phrase it how you would say it.

 

-Looks

-Career

-How interesting are you?

 

Somebody asks you. One sentence.

 

I value your opinion especially

 

Wait what? I'm not understanding what you're asking, sorry.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Wait what? I'm not understanding what you're asking, sorry.

 

#1 is too much but preferable and #2 is a loser.

 

So, how would you describe yourself in terms of looks, career, and being interesting?

[Phoe]

#1 is too much but preferable and #2 is a loser.

 

So, how would you describe yourself in terms of looks, career, and being interesting?

 

I'd say a good "medium" answer and a personal description that would be applicable for myself as well as for a guy that I might find attractive would be..

 

"I'm an average, everyday person. I go to work, and I work hard and give my best. My interests may not be for everyone, but they make ME happy, and that's what matters most."

 

Downplaying without being self-deprecating, highlighting on good work ethic, happiness, and overall positivity.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

"I'm an average, everyday person. I go to work, and I work hard and give my best. My interests may not be for everyone, but they make ME happy, and that's what matters most."

 

 

To be honest, I don't see how that's too different than #2.

[ThaWholigan]

I actually think it's kind of attractive when a woman has said something like "Eh. You know, I'm not especially good looking."

 

I've heard it a few times. I consider that modesty and think others would find it attractive. Then again, I'm pretty much completely off on my impression of what qualities/thoughts/actions people respect for my whole life.

 

I dunno. Some might think it's modest and cute, others might think it's fishing. You know how many good looking girls I've heard say that to me and I've gone "yeah, sure love ()"?

 

Words and the context behind them are vital. Especially in conjunction with non-verbal communication aswell. It's harder to gauge online of course, without that in-person analysis. But someone who deliberately downplays their looks rather than objectively assesses them is not going to stand out too much, nor is it going to make them seem modest to me. In my limited experience, it is those who seem to go out of their way to be uber humble that either turn out to be more trouble than their worth or display huge egos that betray their super-modest stance.

 

As it was once said in a speech that's often credited to Mandela, "Your 'playing small' does not serve the world", and I'd go further and say it doesn't serve oneself either. With that said, I think in the case of people like number 2, it's simply a case of how to use words in a way that does not detract from who they are and potentially could be.

 

So instead of "my career is so-so", one could use "my career is stable and I'm looking to move up in my standing", and instead of "eh, I'm not especially attractive", one can use "I think I look pretty good" or even a joke like "I wouldn't kick myself outta bed". Something that doesn't make it sound like you're downplaying yourself. Instead of saying you could do better at making yourself more interesting, you could say "I love (insert hobbies) and I'd love to learn (insert new hobbies you want to learn) and maybe backpacking in the Alps learning to play guitar" or some sh*t. It's not uber arrogant like Mr/Mrs "I'm attractive and fun! My career is awesome!" but it's a damn sight more intriguing and interesting for others than "Eh, My career is so-so, I'm OK, nothing special".

 

As much as people might think it's a case of having super high standards, the truth is nobody wants to be with someone who's "nothing special", or considers themselves to be "nothing special". Granted, who's special to one person won't be special to another, so that will vary, but portraying oneself as mediocre, will barely even attract another mediocre person.

[Ruby Slippers]

The consensus seems to be that #1 is so-so but preferable but that #2 is a TOTAL freakin loser.

 

I find that very interesting. I don't see self deprecation at all.

What's off about #2 is the emphasis on the negative.

 

I'm not all that special looking

A more neutral version of this would be: I look fine.

 

my career is so-so

I have a decent career/job.

 

I could work on being more interesting

I'd like to mix up my routine/challenge myself more/have more fun.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

As much as people might think it's a case of having super high standards, the truth is nobody wants to be with someone who's "nothing special", or considers themselves to be "nothing special". Granted, who's special to one person won't be special to another, so that will vary, but portraying oneself as mediocre, will barely even attract another mediocre person.

 

I'm not even really talking about dating.

 

I'm just talking about people. Co-workers. Friends.

 

If somebody you worked with said they 'weren't that special looking', would you really think LESS of them? You'd really think they were a loser? That's the impression I get from people. People are just rough.

 

That's where the women said that to me BTW. It wasn't on a date. One was a co-worker, one was a friend, etc, etc.

Edited February 3, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[xxoo]

I would prefer to hear or give descriptive statements rather than evaluative statements.

 

2) I'm not all that special looking, my career is so-so, I could work on being more interesting.

 

I'd rephrase these as:

 

I feel attractive enough, and that's enough.

 

I enjoy my work because.......

 

I'm interested in....

[ThaWholigan]

I'm not even really talking about dating.

 

I'm just talking about people. Co-workers. Friends.

 

If somebody you worked with said they 'weren't that special looking', would you really think LESS of them? You'd really think they were a loser? That's the impression I get from people. People are just rough.

 

That's where the women said that to me BTW. It wasn't on a date. One was a co-worker, one was a friend, etc, etc.

 

The point still stands. Even if you don't wanna date them, it might be cute the first time they say it, but after a while the narrative wears thin. I might not think less of them, but I would encourage them against such comments because a lot of people would think less of them - and while you shouldn't put too much stock into what people think, I would understand why people think not too highly of them - because they don't think too highly of themselves if they talk about themselves in such a mediocre fashion. There's a balance to be had.

 

It's not a great narrative to tell yourself, particularly with the words used, and thus people will also tend to follow that narrative and treat you like a mediocre person.

[JuneJulySeptember]

People and society suck...

[NopeNah]

People and society suck...

 

Why do you say that?

[JuneJulySeptember]

Why do you say that?

 

Everything is so critical and you're being judged every moment for what you say, when it's not even about somebody else but putting down yourself.

 

It's just too much. Way too much.

[NopeNah]

I'm not so critical with my thinking. I'm confident,have a decent career, ect.. I just refuse to over think life. What's the point? I have better things to do.

[xxoo]

Everything is so critical and you're being judged every moment for what you say, when it's not even about somebody else but putting down yourself.

 

It's just too much. Way too much.

 

But your phrasing sounds like YOU are being critical, of yourself.

 

What about an approach that ditches the evaluative comments altogether? Why assess good/bad, rather than simply describe what you like or enjoy and leave it at that?

[Ruby Slippers]

If somebody you worked with said they 'weren't that special looking', would you really think LESS of them? You'd really think they were a loser? That's the impression I get from people. People are just rough.

It's a self-criticizing comment, suggesting you're not special looking enough, not good enough. People tend to believe what you tell them about yourself. You're always telling your own life story as you go along. So you're telling your coworkers that you see yourself as falling short.

 

You believe this about yourself, and you're looking for evidence that other people agree with your self-assessment.

 

We are our own worst critics and can be our own worst enemies!

[Woggle]

I value modesty more but society rewards people with a large ego.

[regine_phalange]

I'm curious about this. There seems to be 2 schools of thought here regarding self-confidence and dating prospects. I was wondering which is more attractive to people.

1) I'm very attractive, have a great career, and am fun and interesting.

 

2) I'm not all that special looking, my career is so-so, I could work on being more interesting.

 

Because I see so much of the first attitude, it seems to me that's what people prefer. I am not judging BTW, I am just interested in how people tick.

 

I mean let's be honest. If you look like Brad Pitt, are a anesthesiologist and make 300K a year, it doesn't matter if you think you are ugly and unsuccessful. And vice versa.

 

I wouldn't buy #1's attitude. As simple as that. I'd prefer #2 because it would seem more sincere. I'd rather someone show me their insecurities directly than pretend they're cool. #2 people usually don't talk much either, and I like that.

[Eternal Sunshine]

As an example, this is how my brother and me were brought up.

 

When we were kids and out in the public, at a store for example, we were strictly told not to touch anything. We were also told not to speak when adults were speaking and never to interrupt the parents when they had company. If we tried, we were completely ignored. We were criticized often and never complimented. Saying anything positive about yourself was beleived to attract bad luck. Most other children in my home country were brought up the same.

 

Yet here, in western countries I keep observing children being total brats, wrecking havoc everywhere they go and parents regularly stopping all conversation to give their child undivided attention. Children are told constantly that they are gorgeous and smart. They grow up with totally unrealistic view of themselves.

 

Unfortunately most people don't look behind the surface. It is even more true in dating. I found that in work settings while being self-depreciating will hurt you, you can still go far by producing consistent, measurable, quality outcomes. Dating is much more subjective and much more about perception.

[xxoo]

When we were kids and out in the public, at a store for example, we were strictly told not to touch anything. We were also told not to speak when adults were speaking and never to interrupt the parents when they had company. If we tried, we were completely ignored. We were criticized often and never complimented. Saying anything positive about yourself was beleived to attract bad luck. Most other children in my home country were brought up the same.

 

Yet here, in western countries I keep observing children being total brats, wrecking havoc everywhere they go and parents regularly stopping all conversation to give their child undivided attention. Children are told constantly that they are gorgeous and smart. They grow up with totally unrealistic view of themselves.

 

There's a healthy medium between the two, imo. As a young mom, I read a lot of articles examining the role of evaluative language when raising children: the constant praise, the "good job!", the opposite end with criticism, etc. Both of these extremes have concerns.

 

I try to use more open-ended comments with my kids, inviting them to share how they feel about the topic. More listening, less talking. But I do encourage them to talk about their interests with me, so that we can support them in their growth. I don't want to give them a superiority OR inferiority complex.

[Haydn]

There's a healthy medium between the two, imo. As a young mom, I read a lot of articles examining the role of evaluative language when raising children: the constant praise, the "good job!", the opposite end with criticism, etc. Both of these extremes have concerns.

 

I try to use more open-ended comments with my kids, inviting them to share how they feel about the topic. More listening, less talking. But I do encourage them to talk about their interests with me, so that we can support them in their growth. I don't want to give them a superiority OR inferiority complex.

 

Same here. Couldn't imagine being brought up and having such harsh rules.

 

Always a balance. (extra credit card in the post)

[Ninjainpajamas]

This is another one of these "in a perfect world" type of LS posts...where everybody tries to build up the most socially acceptable answer and pretend that this is how real life works...or should work.

 

For example here, the first part is true.

 

They are different things.

 

The opposite of confident is not modesty, but unconfident.

The opposite of modest is arrogant.

 

 

Confidence is believing in yourself, not needing external validation, and how you carry yourself. It is knowing you can get something done, stepping up when it needs to be done, and not being in fear. Confident people usually walk around with great posture and look people in the eye.

 

This is basically the gist of the answer to your post and although you tried to make two examples that fell on opposite sides of the spectrum...because it wasn't accurate; although people knew what you meant and were trying to say...it instead took on a different meaning and the conversation which ran in that other direction you didn't intend for it to go.

 

However the second part here is your basic cereal box cliche societal positive motivation ideal..

 

Modesty is how vocal you are about these things. If you need to go around bragging how good you are at something, it just means you are insecure and need external validation. I tend to think the most confident people are indeed also the most modest.

 

So I think it is good to be both when it comes to dating.

 

Most men I knew that were good at something bragged about, and the guys who were the best were definitely aware of it to say the least.

 

People who brag excessively or appear to have an ego, aren't necessarily more insecure than you are, or even necessarily more confident...they just generally provide themselves with their own validation, they recognize success and progress within themselves and aren't shy about addressing it nor standing on the wayside to pretend to act "humble" and like the whole thing is just so unrecognizable because you are such an awesome and great person who never says anything positive about yourself and never claims a success.

 

But people that understand the "rules of society" will appear to be far more humbling and genuine than they actually are at face value just so they don't step on any toes, because it's what is expected...similar to a politician who wants to "connect" and "represent" a people and lifestyle he knows nothing about, but he knows if he can pull it off with the right rhetoric that it will often be enough to get support for an election...because people ultimately make snap judgments about people based on those superficial and exterior slides of a persons life, they believe that the pictures tell a story rather than truly understanding deep down what that person is about...nobody wants to analyze a person who they feel is all "good", they instead want them to be an unrealistic example for others to follow and attempt to portray.

 

Long story short, insecure people who need external validation don't often act humble or modest...they instead seek out that things that give them validation.

 

I definitely don't believe that the quiet and modest people are of the utmost confident, they are merely more passive and easy-going...this has more to do with personality traits than it ever does about being confident. To say that the most confident people are also the most modest is a parallel I can see no connection too. You can attempt to say that this person is possibly more secure within themselves, but on the other hand they could also be as insecure as anyone else.

 

The problem with real life is people believe what they see, and believe in that perceptions that they create within their own minds rather than the "reality"...this "generalization" (love to see how people hate it when there's a generalization about something they don't like but are totally onboard and supportive of one when it's something they agree on...big surprise there) about Good confident people = modesty and Poor insecure people = arrogance, is just the feel-good opinion.

 

If you are to ask me...it takes a person with a variety of talents and attributes to really translate into that "total package". Being arrogant or having an ego are not undesirable qualities but often times motivate people to achieve things others would not believe in themselves to do. But everybody learns from their mistakes and that typically comes through humility...and everybody experiences that whether they want to learn from it/accept it or not.

 

If you had to choose from those options, option 1 is a no-brainer. The world isn't kind to the weak, arrogance will give you a thick-skin and make you more resilient to the BS of this planet...you'll listen and care a lot less to the criticism that you get, and you'll move forward thinking you're so awesome without the support that others may need...however the question is, can you stand alone when everyone is against you for it and when it gets tough to represent yourself.

[todreaminblue]

This is another one of these "in a perfect world" type of LS posts...where everybody tries to build up the most socially acceptable answer and pretend that this is how real life works...or should work.

 

For example here, the first part is true.

 

 

 

This is basically the gist of the answer to your post and although you tried to make two examples that fell on opposite sides of the spectrum...because it wasn't accurate; although people knew what you meant and were trying to say...it instead took on a different meaning and the conversation which ran in that other direction you didn't intend for it to go.

 

However the second part here is your basic cereal box cliche societal positive motivation ideal..

 

 

 

Most men I knew that were good at something bragged about, and the guys who were the best were definitely aware of it to say the least.

 

People who brag excessively or appear to have an ego, aren't necessarily more insecure than you are, or even necessarily more confident...they just generally provide themselves with their own validation, they recognize success and progress within themselves and aren't shy about addressing it nor standing on the wayside to pretend to act "humble" and like the whole thing is just so unrecognizable because you are such an awesome and great person who never says anything positive about yourself and never claims a success.

 

But people that understand the "rules of society" will appear to be far more humbling and genuine than they actually are at face value just so they don't step on any toes, because it's what is expected...similar to a politician who wants to "connect" and "represent" a people and lifestyle he knows nothing about, but he knows if he can pull it off with the right rhetoric that it will often be enough to get support for an election...because people ultimately make snap judgments about people based on those superficial and exterior slides of a persons life, they believe that the pictures tell a story rather than truly understanding deep down what that person is about...nobody wants to analyze a person who they feel is all "good", they instead want them to be an unrealistic example for others to follow and attempt to portray.

 

Long story short, insecure people who need external validation don't often act humble or modest...they instead seek out that things that give them validation.

 

I definitely don't believe that the quiet and modest people are of the utmost confident, they are merely more passive and easy-going...this has more to do with personality traits than it ever does about being confident. To say that the most confident people are also the most modest is a parallel I can see no connection too. You can attempt to say that this person is possibly more secure within themselves, but on the other hand they could also be as insecure as anyone else.

 

The problem with real life is people believe what they see, and believe in that perceptions that they create within their own minds rather than the "reality"...this "generalization" (love to see how people hate it when there's a generalization about something they don't like but are totally onboard and supportive of one when it's something they agree on...big surprise there) about Good confident people = modesty and Poor insecure people = arrogance, is just the feel-good opinion.

 

If you are to ask me...it takes a person with a variety of talents and attributes to really translate into that "total package". Being arrogant or having an ego are not undesirable qualities but often times motivate people to achieve things others would not believe in themselves to do. But everybody learns from their mistakes and that typically comes through humility...and everybody experiences that whether they want to learn from it/accept it or not.

 

If you had to choose from those options, option 1 is a no-brainer. The world isn't kind to the weak, arrogance will give you a thick-skin and make you more resilient to the BS of this planet...you'll listen and care a lot less to the criticism that you get, and you'll move forward thinking you're so awesome without the support that others may need...however the question is, can you stand alone when everyone is against you for it and when it gets tough to represent yourself.

 

 

 

If you had to choose from those options, option 1 is a no-brainer. The world isn't kind to the weak, arrogance will give you a thick-skin and make you more resilient to the BS of this planet...you'll listen and care a lot less to the criticism that you get, and you'll move forward thinking you're so awesome without the support that others may need...however the question is, can you stand alone when everyone is against you for it and when it gets tough to represent yourself.

 

 

the world isnt kind to the weak......i dont know about that.....this may not be an ideal world...doesnt mean you lessen your ideals......to fit or suit an ******* ideal....which to me would be ...be unkind to people who are weak or vulnerable.....deb

[Ruby Slippers]

There's a healthy medium between the two, imo. As a young mom, I read a lot of articles examining the role of evaluative language when raising children: the constant praise, the "good job!", the opposite end with criticism, etc. Both of these extremes have concerns.

 

I try to use more open-ended comments with my kids, inviting them to share how they feel about the topic. More listening, less talking. But I do encourage them to talk about their interests with me, so that we can support them in their growth. I don't want to give them a superiority OR inferiority complex.

Good point! A good friend of mine who has two kids has talked to me quite a bit about her parenting style. She reads tons of books about the subject and really tries to be a good mom. She also says she finds the typical excessive complimenting and ego inflating toward kids problematic, and tries to focus on experiencing life and activities themselves, rather than assigning value and making judgments about good or bad quality. Her kids seem very happy and well-adjusted.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Everything is so critical and you're being judged every moment for what you say, when it's not even about somebody else but putting down yourself.

 

It's just too much. Way too much.

I think you are really projecting, this thread an most of your other ones I've read are all about judging and picking apart everything, it is not good for YOU and I wish you would believe that not everybody does this, not at all. Back to your first post, can you get that in #2 the person does not say ONE good thing about themselves, this does not show modesty, this shows that the person doesn't like themselves, their job, doesn't even find themselves to be "interesting" etc and that is NOT a good thing!! I guess I would say that you are overanalyzing because it serves you to think that society and specially women are just superficial and judgmental rather than just looking at yourself and what you could do to be a happier more positive guy which is in itself attractive!!