Which gender ends relationships?

[Rejected Rosebud]

OK I have 2 serious questions, 1) I guess it's been documented that women initiate more divorces, has it ever been documented which gender ruins more relationships? 2) why do so many people love to try to DIVIDE people by gender anyway, does it help anything or serve any purpose besides having a whole half of population to blame for stuff? I have been dumped and my closest friend was dumped, it's not "rare"!!

[BlueIris]

Totally disagree. The men I have always been attracted to from the beginning exhibit those 'nurturing' qualities... But we call it something else because that doesn't sound manly.

 

As I have gotten older, I have just gotten better at seeing if those qualities are sustained over time, or if they are an act just to win my favor.

 

I agree with RedRobin. I'd add that sometimes they peak out or something happens where they fail (just like women over time) and that's pat of what the article addresses.

 

but along another line,

I agree with Weezy. What women want at the very start of a relationship and after 2-3 years are completely different things 99% of the time.

 

In the attraction stage - humans revert to their dinosaur brains. For women that means physical appearance, strong confident successful assertive men. I've also often heard women say they are attracted to men who they feel "protected" with. That is just the way it works.

 

First question: which women? That's critical, essential.

 

I agree with you that many women are instinctively attracted to men that are protective and safe, and good providers for her and family, or good genes for having strong children. The question is, what constitutes safe and protected? There we disagree. Which women end up with alphas, the men who truly end up being our leaders and the best providers?

 

In my experience and what I’ve seen in friends and family, the strongest attraction has been to the intelligent and socially and emotionally attuned men, men who have turned out to be the most successful and best providers in the long run, like RedRobin described. They were least likely to put others at risk through ego, impulsivity, lack of insight or lack of intelligence, and/or poor emotional and social abilities. I also think that the long-term successful men- the ultimate, long-term alphas- often choose strong partners, maybe because they are strong and secure enough to draw strength and connect to strong people.

 

My instincts have been correct except when I was weak and/or fearful. Then weak picked weak- perfect! That was when I picked superficial or false alphas- not smart but presented as they were, asserted more than thought, not good parents and partners but paid lip service to being so, or appeared big and strong assertive protectors but had mental or psychological problems, often ego-driven or insecure. Time revealed the truth- sometimes very little time! (Whoa! Was I drunk or what?) But at the primal level, usually my gut instinct has been right, and that’s been true of my friends and family too.

 

Perhaps we evolved from people who were social or tribal, so we evolved to have what appears to be primal attraction to those who were most benefit to family and tribe, intelligent and socially and emotionally aware, therefore less risk to the group, maybe less likely to act individually and be eaten by lions or abandoned in the wild by the tribe.

 

Kind of along the same lines, I see lots of stuff posted here by men about men that I think is about male v male hierarchy and male admiration of men, maybe envy, that I really don't think applies to women.

Edited February 6, 2015 by BlueIris

[ComingInHot]

Okay. My Opinion from the in-depth googling I have done on this topic... alright maybe not SOOooo in-depth.

 

The one to end the relationship is usually the one who wants to end it right?

 

I understand the statistics (and from what I have seen in the last two days, those studies are, well they just don't carry substance or maybe don't encompass enough of the 'why women ended it' enough for me to totally trust them as solid) point to women ending it more often. But instead of making it a gender thing based on the 'sensitivity of women in relationships' (because let's face it, women can also be pretty Insensitive too...), how about just saying that statistics show that women end relationships more often than men because they do and leave the 'guessing' out of it.

 

I didn't want my M to end at first. Then I did. Why? Caauuuuse he cheated. Not because I was sensitive to certain aspects of the relationship failing.

 

So... I ended it.

CiH*

[Weezy1973]

In my experience and what I’ve seen in friends and family, the strongest attraction has been to the intelligent and socially and emotionally attuned men, men who have turned out to be the most successful and best providers in the long run, like RedRobin described. They were least likely to put others at risk through ego, impulsivity, lack of insight or lack of intelligence, and/or poor emotional and social abilities.

 

And women that are attracted to and choose these men are not the ones in the article that initiate divorces and breakups. The problem is what many women are attracted to (not the ones you describe above) has nothing to do with how good a long term partner the man will be. Let's take a couple examples.

 

Physical attractiveness (i.e. looks). Literally has nothing to do with how good a long term partner someone will be.

 

Ambition. Not only does this have nothing to do with how good a long term partner one will be, it often has negative consequences. How many times does one hear about women that choose an ambitious, successful man and then five years later complain because he spends all his time at work and she feels abandoned? So essentially she cheats or ends the marriage because of the very quality she was attracted to in the first place!

 

Essentially it's simple - women that are naturally attracted to qualities that have nothing to do with how good a partner the man will be, are more likely to be dissatisfied with the relationship in the long term. There are more than a few women who prioritize that instant chemistry/lust over anything else. And then they end of unhappy in their marriage.

 

But at the primal level, usually my gut instinct has been right, and that’s been true of my friends and family too.

 

I think we're all guilty of rewriting history to paint ourselves in the best light...are you saying that when you chose the "false alphas" your gut said not to? Or were you just as attracted to them and wanted it to work initially as anybody else?

 

 

Perhaps we evolved from people who were social or tribal, so we evolved to have what appears to be primal attraction to those who were most benefit to family and tribe, intelligent and socially and emotionally aware, therefore less risk to the group, maybe less likely to act individually and be eaten by lions or abandoned in the wild by the tribe.

 

We did indeed, but there are many different mating strategies that work. Which is why there are so many different types of attraction.

[NGC1300]

Women just seem to be more fine with being single than men are. That makes it much easier for a woman to walk away.

 

False. It is easier for women to walk away because they know the next salivating male is always in line. Not so much for men.

 

But you are right about the man having to constantly appease the woman, and it's for this very reason. That's why I'm starting to accept the fact that I will die alone. Even if I got with a woman, the stress of trying to retain her wouldn't be worth it.

[ktya]

Women end the relationship more often because they have all the choice. In marriage they tend to financially benefit from divorce.

 

Think about it.

 

A fidelitous man who has no girls on the side knows that in order to get back in the game he will have to start dating again, which is expensive, and takes balls and time. Before he has sex after a breakup he will have to engage at least 10 different women, putting his best foot forward and risking a lot of rejection.

 

Women, on the other hand, get hit on and even if they have been loyal and fidelitous probably could call one phone number, get money, emotional support, and sex on demand. If they dont have a phone number a quick trip to a local bar would do the trick.

 

So its just easier for women to walk. Men will try to work it out.

 

But this is why i dont committ to women anymore. keep 5 on the go, diversify and i dont care when they leave.

[newmoon]

Women end the relationship more often because they have all the choice. In marriage they tend to financially benefit from divorce.

 

Think about it.

 

A fidelitous man who has no girls on the side knows that in order to get back in the game he will have to start dating again, which is expensive, and takes balls and time. Before he has sex after a breakup he will have to engage at least 10 different women, putting his best foot forward and risking a lot of rejection.

 

Women, on the other hand, get hit on and even if they have been loyal and fidelitous probably could call one phone number, get money, emotional support, and sex on demand. If they dont have a phone number a quick trip to a local bar would do the trick.

 

So its just easier for women to walk. Men will try to work it out.

 

But this is why i dont committ to women anymore. keep 5 on the go, diversify and i dont care when they leave.

 

this is a funny view, imo. you're assuming women fresh out of a marriage and likely saddled with 2+ kids are going to be hot and get hit on and reap financial rewards? ummm... no. perhaps if she was still in her 20s and married for about a year. women who have been married any length of time - and who have kids - rarely end the marriage looking as hot as they did when they entered it. and they probably didn't have kids either. not sure they are going to have a lot of options when they hit the dating scene. and seeing as how many women quit jobs to be stay-at-home moms and support their husbands... well, they don't benefit financially either because many gave up education and schooling for a family, so finding work is harder for them.

[ufo8mycat]

False. It is easier for women to walk away because they know the next salivating male is always in line. Not so much for men.

 

 

False. Men are twice as likely to remarry as women according to 2009 US census data

 

American Community Survey Data on Marriage and Divorce - U.S. Census Bureau

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html?ex=1326603600&en=8b6192126c472ee5&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&_r=0

[clia]

I feel like men are more likely to become complacent in the relationship after awhile, but that's just based on my observations and nothing scientific. Like once men get married they think they don't have to try anymore. I can't tell you how many of my girl friends have ended up in marriages (that they thought were going to be very 50/50 based on the relationship prior to marriage) where they are not only working full-time, but are expected to do the bulk of the child care and the housework, while daddy plops down on the couch after work to watch hockey and pretty much expects a medal if he so much as feeds the kid dinner for one night.

[Haydn]

Women end the relationship more often because they have all the choice. In marriage they tend to financially benefit from divorce.

 

Think about it.

 

A fidelitous man who has no girls on the side knows that in order to get back in the game he will have to start dating again, which is expensive, and takes balls and time. Before he has sex after a breakup he will have to engage at least 10 different women, putting his best foot forward and risking a lot of rejection.

 

Women, on the other hand, get hit on and even if they have been loyal and fidelitous probably could call one phone number, get money, emotional support, and sex on demand. If they dont have a phone number a quick trip to a local bar would do the trick.

 

So its just easier for women to walk. Men will try to work it out.

 

But this is why i dont committ to women anymore. keep 5 on the go, diversify and i dont care when they leave.

 

That sounds expensive.

[autumnnight]

Women end the relationship more often because they have all the choice. In marriage they tend to financially benefit from divorce.

 

Think about it.

 

A fidelitous man who has no girls on the side knows that in order to get back in the game he will have to start dating again, which is expensive, and takes balls and time. Before he has sex after a breakup he will have to engage at least 10 different women, putting his best foot forward and risking a lot of rejection.

 

Women, on the other hand, get hit on and even if they have been loyal and fidelitous probably could call one phone number, get money, emotional support, and sex on demand. If they dont have a phone number a quick trip to a local bar would do the trick.

 

So its just easier for women to walk. Men will try to work it out.

 

But this is why i dont committ to women anymore. keep 5 on the go, diversify and i dont care when they leave.

 

It's sad to watch little boys kick the dirt, takes their ball, and go home. If this is what a man think of women, I'd hope any self respecting woman wouldn't date him to begin with.

 

We've all been deeply hurt. Most of us grow...and grow up.

[autumnnight]

That sounds expensive.

 

Actually, it sounds like an *******.

[NGC1300]

False. Men are twice as likely to remarry as women according to 2009 US census data

 

 

After the women divorce them, in the majority of cases.

[NGC1300]

False. Men are twice as likely to remarry as women according to 2009 US census data

 

And it may very well be men find it tougher to be single. They do not have the empathy and support networks available to them that women have. They just need to "man up" and suppress their emotions, thus driving their suicide rates up 4x higher than women.

Edited February 9, 2015 by NGC1300

[NGC1300]

It's sad to watch little boys kick the dirt, takes their ball, and go home. If this is what a man think of women, I'd hope any self respecting woman wouldn't date him to begin with.

 

We've all been deeply hurt. Most of us grow...and grow up.

 

Doesn't sound like he kicked any dirt and went home. Sound like he's found a way to be with women and not get hurt. Smart man.

[RedRobin]

Putting aside the whole "who divorces who more" conversation... even in dating... I know I'm very sensitive to getting put anywhere NEAR the booty call/FWB territory.

 

 

If I'm in a relationship or a guy tells me he's 'exclusive'... and I catch even a whiff of him trying to segue me into one of the above (booty call/FWB) he's on his ass so fast he doesn't know what hit him.

 

 

Lots of guys these days want to lock down a good woman while trying to keep his options open in the side. I won't have it.

 

 

Lots of guys have a VERY mistaken notion that all women want to feel like he's got other options or being competed for. Or if he plays it cool, I'll want him more. Not me. If he wants other options, he can be single.

[Woggle]

Putting aside the whole "who divorces who more" conversation... even in dating... I know I'm very sensitive to getting put anywhere NEAR the booty call/FWB territory.

 

 

If I'm in a relationship or a guy tells me he's 'exclusive'... and I catch even a whiff of him trying to segue me into one of the above (booty call/FWB) he's on his ass so fast he doesn't know what hit him.

 

 

Lots of guys these days want to lock down a good woman while trying to keep his options open in the side. I won't have it.

 

 

Lots of guys have a VERY mistaken notion that all women want to feel like he's got other options or being competed for. Or if he plays it cool, I'll want him more. Not me. If he wants other options, he can be single.

 

I fully agree with you. The player mentality does attract a lot of women but the kind of women a man looking for a quality relationship should want. It's whether a man wants quantity or quality.

[RedRobin]

I fully agree with you. The player mentality does attract a lot of women but the kind of women a man looking for a quality relationship should want. It's whether a man wants quantity or quality.

 

 

The saddest part about your statement, Woggle, is that I don't really think it does attract a lot of women. I mean, if all one cares about is sex maybe... because it isn't that hard to lie... and they might be able to pull it off for a month or a few with women who don't screen all that well, are naïve or insecure.

 

 

But I know that a lot of guys really are craving an intimate connection with a woman, and that 'player mentality' scares all but the most screwed up women away. And burns bridges. And then the guy wonders why none of his friends, relatives or co workers recommend him to anyone.

 

 

Men have been sold a bill of goods big time by a handful of bad men and media.

 

 

There has been more than one guy who came to me later and apologized... that he didn't know what he was doing and regrets the things he did. Sure, you could argue that they were just trying to 'get some'. Maybe one or two I could say that about. The rest are just really messed up about what actions build real intimacy. I feel sorry for them. Not sorry enough to date them or stay with them once I see that pattern... Just sorry that they keep shooting themselves in the foot that way.

 

 

Even the guys here who claim to be stringing 5 women and not caring when they leave. That comes from a place of fear and pain. Sounds like to me.

[somedude81]

No woman wants a man who looks like he doesn't have any options.

[RedRobin]

No woman wants a man who looks like he doesn't have any options.

 

 

Not true. I can't speak for all women, but if he is attractive to me, that's all I care about.

 

 

Having other women get all googly eyed for the man I'm with has never made me want him more. It makes me sad when I see otherwise good men falling for that.

 

 

What *I* look for first is the trust and respect that his friends, family, and co workers have for him. You can't be a player and have that. That comes from nurturing relationships and building trust with individuals over time. My observation is that most men who are 'players' with women are usually not truthful with anyone else either. Not really.

[Woggle]

The saddest part about your statement, Woggle, is that I don't really think it does attract a lot of women. I mean, if all one cares about is sex maybe... because it isn't that hard to lie... and they might be able to pull it off for a month or a few with women who don't screen all that well, are naïve or insecure.

 

 

But I know that a lot of guys really are craving an intimate connection with a woman, and that 'player mentality' scares all but the most screwed up women away. And burns bridges. And then the guy wonders why none of his friends, relatives or co workers recommend him to anyone.

 

 

Men have been sold a bill of goods big time by a handful of bad men and media.

 

 

There has been more than one guy who came to me later and apologized... that he didn't know what he was doing and regrets the things he did. Sure, you could argue that they were just trying to 'get some'. Maybe one or two I could say that about. The rest are just really messed up about what actions build real intimacy. I feel sorry for them. Not sorry enough to date them or stay with them once I see that pattern... Just sorry that they keep shooting themselves in the foot that way.

 

 

Even the guys here who claim to be stringing 5 women and not caring when they leave. That comes from a place of fear and pain. Sounds like to me.

 

It does come from a place of fear and pain but if this kind of thing doesn't work then why do men who truly care and don't treat women like toys so often end up alone and heartbroken? Why do I so often see these men getting dumped for men who treat women like options? Can you not understand why witnessing and even experiencing this would be become discouraging to men? The player is more often than not an act of desperation for men who tried the other way and it blew up in their face.

[RedRobin]

It does come from a place of fear and pain but if this kind of thing doesn't work then why do men who truly care and don't treat women like toys so often end up alone and heartbroken? Why do I so often see these men getting dumped for men who treat women like options? Can you not understand why witnessing and even experiencing this would be become discouraging to men? The player is more often than not an act of desperation for men who tried the other way and it blew up in their face.

 

... Or an excuse.

 

I have been cheated on and betrayed. You don't see me out there using men. Sometimes I get frustrated, and I do think about it... But I refuse to let one person or even a group of people turn me into what I abhor... Or turn me into one of 'them'... That is basically giving up to me...

 

Unfortunately, a lot of those people don't have good examples of a loving, respectful relationship. I get it that lots are just trying to adapt and do the best they can. I can sympathize, but I really can't save them from themselves.

 

All I can do is try to avoid them so they don't tarnish my spirit and hope in finding lasting love. In another post, someone posted a clip from that movie The Dark Crystal... Where the Emperor is sucking the life energy from a podling... That is what I feel players (men and women) do or try to do to people.

[Woggle]

... Or an excuse.

 

I have been cheated on and betrayed. You don't see me out there using men. Sometimes I get frustrated, and I do think about it... But I refuse to let one person or even a group of people turn me into what I abhor... Or turn me into one of 'them'... That is basically giving up to me...

 

Unfortunately, a lot of those people don't have good examples of a loving, respectful relationship. I get it that lots are just trying to adapt and do the best they can. I can sympathize, but I really can't save them from themselves.

 

All I can do is try to avoid them so they don't tarnish my spirit and hope in finding lasting love. In another post, someone posted a clip from that movie The Dark Crystal... Where the Emperor is sucking the life energy from a podling... That is what I feel players (men and women) do or try to do to people.

 

I agree with you to a point but this doesn't come out of revenge for most but the realization that it is what a good portion of women are attracted to. Most men are pragmatists at heart and we do what works and produces results and this seems to produce results. I would never lower myself to that level because it doesn't get a quality woman you can have a happy relationship with but I sympathize with the desperation some misguided men must feel.

[RedRobin]

I agree with you to a point but this doesn't come out of revenge for most but the realization that it is what a good portion of women are attracted to. Most men are pragmatists at heart and we do what works and produces results and this seems to produce results. I would never lower myself to that level because it doesn't get a quality woman you can have a happy relationship with but I sympathize with the desperation some misguided men must feel.

 

I don't know what you mean by a 'good portion'. I view players as people who pretend to be something they are not. In the sense that they give the other person something they are looking for, then who wouldn't be attracted to that?

 

Not everyone has the skills or patience to dig in and see through the facade... But like this thread suggests, they eventually DO see through the facade.. So no, it absolutely is NOT what women are looking for. Those guys get dumped. They can claim they don't care, but I don't buy it.

 

I don't know about producing results either... Except maybe reinforcing their own warped views of intimacy. It's not like it is that hard to get sex these days.. If that is what you mean by results... If you mean getting a woman to fall in love with them... Sure, there are sociopaths out there who enjoy that game. I do happen to believe that players fall into that spectrum... Which is why I think it so important to understand and witness how they relate to others outside of the romantic sense.

[Acacia98]

I'm not going to disagree with you here I think quite a bit of what you say is usually true - but I still think there is more to it.

 

I think that most LTR follow a very specific pattern where the "love" wears off. Women being (in my opinion) more driven by emotions and feelings struggle a lot more when the attraction, love, companionship emotions start to wane during that period. Its a natural growing apart period after 3 - 5 years of most relationships. If the relationship is unbalanced at this point .... that's when it starts to fall apart.

 

The problem is I have seen in many relationships where a woman is happy - very happy - at first in completely unbalanced relationships. As long as they feel those deep emotions of "love" - balance is not a huge issue for them at first (this becomes less so as women get older and have maybe been through the process before). I have seen numerous women who actively contribute to causing the imbalance early in the relationship. You may laugh at me but I have had this happen with an ex when I was younger.

 

Why on earth would I laugh at you? You’re talking about your personal experience. I, too, was talking about my personal experience.

 

The problem is I have seen in many relationships where a woman is happy - very happy - at first in completely unbalanced relationships. As long as they feel those deep emotions of "love" - balance is not a huge issue for them at first (this becomes less so as women get older and have maybe been through the process before). I have seen numerous women who actively contribute to causing the imbalance early in the relationship. You may laugh at me but I have had this happen with an ex when I was younger. They start almost forcibly doing things for their man as a way to show they care. My ex refused - and I mean refused - to let me do some basic things around the house I had always done myself which I had no problem doing. I actually felt weird and uncomfortable with her doing them for me.

Oh, I know what you’re talking about. I’ve seen women do that. They essentially smother the men and infantilize them. I’ve also seen men go out of their way to do stuff for their wives/girlfriends that the women could very well do for themselves. And, in both kinds of situations, as time has gone by and the “love” has faded, they’ve gotten tired and resentful of their partners’ “laziness” and “emotional dependence.” And, they’re totally oblivious to the part they played in creating that situation. All of that definitely happens, but it was not the dynamic in my relationships. So we are essentially talking about entirely different relationship scenarios. And that is why I insist that it’s not a good idea to reduce these discussions to “men do this & women do that.”

 

That same ex who refused to let me wash my clothes - at year 3 she started asking why I never washed my clothes. "Why was it her job ?" So I told her it wasn't and that I had no problem doing this. I started washing my clothes again and I started washing her clothes too. But she didn't like that either - I didn't wash them "her way". Seriously I wasn't folding the bras and underwear correctly. So I told her fine we will wash our clothes separately. She can do hers and I will do mine - no issue. Then she became upset that I was leaving a full basket of washing sitting in the room for the entire week - because it was "making the room look untidy". I explained that I only needed to wash once per week. I had enough clothes to last so I only washed on Saturdays. So she then started washing them again herself with her washing and complaining about it constantly. I told her not to .... she did it anyway. So I started washing 3 times a week just to keep the peace. I'm not kidding this seriously happened.

 

I know men are hard to live with and can be lazy ..... but seriously most women TOTALLY underestimate how much effort men actually go to just to try an appease them. Its not just jumping through hoops - its jumping through hoops in the exact right sequence in the exact right way that the woman wants you to. But she doesn't tell you any of the specifics you have to try and decode what she wants through trial and error. I think some men just give up and say ..... its just easier if I let her do it - I won't get in trouble.

That’s not a woman thing. It’s an abusive dynamic in a relationship between two folks who really aren’t equal. This is how it works: You’re doing the best that you can plus more and the other person only sees negatives. So she keeps raising the hoops higher and you keep trying to jump through them; and whatever you do, it just isn’t good enough. That’s how power dynamics work: You’ve seen it a lot with women because you date women and, presumably, so do your male friends. Well, I’ve seen men do that too: make their significant others jump through hoops to make them happy; but whatever the women do, the men just are not happy. The folks who do this to other people are folks who don’t know how to address their own unhappiness. So they choose to make the other person miserable instead. And they kinda enjoy it because it makes them feel powerful. That is how abusive relationships take shape…

 

Oh, btw, laziness isn't a male thing. I know plenty of female slobs who are happy to let others clean up after them.