Where am I going wrong?

[tolve]

I just can't get a boyfriend and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I often get the feeling that guys like me. Like guys I met years ago and haven't seen or spoken to since will still 'like' things all the time on my Facebook page. I have a couple of male friends I just get the feeling have a thing for me. I have had male friends in the past who now looking back I think may have had a thing for me at the time we were hanging out. I catch guys looking at me at work, or smiling or talking to me more than other women or I just get a vibe that they want to talk to me but for some reason they aren't.

 

Thing is, nothing ever comes of any of it. Where am I going wrong? Am I just totally deluded that any of these guys actually like me and they're just normal friendly guys. Some of them - 3 male friends in particular - I have really, really liked. All three of them pursued a friendship with me actively. I think I flirted with all of them but figured they didn't like me like that and stuck to being just friends with them. I did a thread a month ago about one these male friends who I think currently likes me. I'm waiting to see if things work out with him, but if they don't I don't know what to do. I honestly feel like I'm going to be along forever. Just to say here, I'm not some social freak. I have tons of friends, get on great with everyone. It's just the boyfriend thing that never happens.

[Versacehottie]

I'm going to take a guess that you think you're flirting but it's not obvious enough. Maybe try with guys who aren't close friends first for some practice. Make sure that you are not putting yourself into the girl "friend" zone by being one of the guys. It's a sometimes a subtle difference. I think from what you said here so far you just need more practice and experiences. And it's definitely superficial but make sure that you're doing the most with your looks within your style that you can. Don't be lazy about that either. Guys like feminine. Even if it's feminine in a tee shirt. Make sure your looks and actions reflect that you're a girl.

[tolve]

I do dress in a feminine manner. I'm not like this sports fan pal. I'm definitely a girl so I don't think that's the issue. In terms of friends maybe they like me, but then we become friends and while they still like me it's tough to make the move? I've never made a move on a guy so wouldn't know where to start really. I do think I flirt and keep up equal contact as the guy. So say this friend I currently like will call me on the weekend so I'll take the initiative and call him midweek.

[Diezel]

Stop putting all these guys in the Friendzone for years.

[angel.eyes]

So say this friend I currently like will call me on the weekend so I'll take the initiative and call him midweek.

 

Well that's something I would do with any friend. Reciprocating a phone call, in and of itself, isn't flirting. It's just social courtesy. Now the banter on the call or the direction of the conversation might be flirtatious. What are you doing with guys you like that is different from your interactions with guys who are just friends?

[tolve]

Deizel I don't want them in the friend zone but how do I get them out? And how do I not put them there? Angel.eyes I don't do a lot that's different I'm chatty, we laugh a lot, I do tease friends I like a lot. I have one on one dinners with them, but then I do that with friends too. With this friend I now like, we've been platonic friends for so long I don't know how to shake it up. We talk and laugh on the phone. We've always done dinner and hung out alone so can't change something there. He's started calling me on a weekly basis which he never used to do (more like every couple of months before) so then I'll call him a few days later so it looks like I'm open to talking more and he's not bugging me. But when stuff like this happens (when I start getting "vibes" from a guy) I begin to wonder if it's for some other reason, not that he likes me. So in my head I'm thinking don't be weird and creep him out by flirting like a maniac the poor dude is clearly just lonely and wants to chat to his buddy.

 

Is my thinking all wrong here? Do I misread signs from guys that are just friendly? Or do I misread signs that are showing interest and I'm I unintentionally shutting them down? Lol

[tolve]

Oh and the banter on the phone is a little more lively with this one guy but I banter with everyone so it's hard to say

[angel.eyes]

Okay. So, as another poster suggested, you aren't really flirting or sending any signals, are you? Think about how you might interact differently with guys when you have a romantic interest in them?

[oldshirt]

Let's start with the basics here. First off, guys don't friendzone women unless women are actively pursuing something with them and the woman are really fat or have bad hygiene or something. If you are a normal, healthy, well dressed woman that has no actual deformities or morbid obesity or something, it's not a case of being friendzoned, it's probably more a case of them not getting enough of a green light to make their move.

 

Here's the scoop on men - men are really dumb and clueless to picking up on women's flirtatious and signs of interest.

 

What you think is over the top, brazen and scandalous behavior, they don't get it.

 

What other women see as over the top, brazen and scandalous behavior in ore women - men don't get.

 

I'm getting the feeling what you consider flirting and showing interest is too subtle and going under the radar with men.

 

For men to actually pick up on your signals, you may have to step outside your normal comfort zones and a little out of your box.

 

I agree with the other posters that you may need to reevaluate how you dress and do your hair, make up etc and be a little more bold and a little more sexy. You don't have to look like a stripper on a pole, but your issue sounds here like your being overlooked as potential date/GF material as opposed to being completely invisable and being an actual wallflower.

[oldshirt]

.....also, you haven't said anything about being plagued with men just wanting booty calls/ONSs/FWBs etc so I don't think this is an issue of being too slutty and guys not taking you seriously as GF material. I think you may be coming off a little to asexual. I think you need to pump up the volume a little bit and add some "girl-Alpha" to your game.

[oldshirt]

My other suggestion is to find some gal that seems to be consistently getting guys in the league you want to successfully with and see if she will help you do a little makeover and work with you on getting your girl-game up to speed for that league.

 

I think you just need a little coaching and mentoring to work with you to bump up your game a bit.

 

I don't think this is a case of doing anything "wrong". I think it's more a case of not doing the right things that you are already doing, 'enough.'

[salparadise]

I think you may be coming off a little to asexual. I think you need to pump up the volume a little bit and add some "girl-Alpha" to your game.

 

I think there could be barriers along these lines, but it's impossible for us to assess. It could also be something in your demeanor or personality. They could be thinking that you'd never be interested in them, not interested in men generally, that you're too independent or too dominant to pique their imagination as a prospective relationship partner. Assuming that you're attractive and feminine it has to be some kind of invisible barrier.

 

Sometimes exceptionally attractive women who are accomplished and independent seem to have the same issues. It could also be personality based if your nature is rational, orderly, decisive, and thinking oriented as opposed to feeling and expressive. When you talk to theses guys of interest, do you let feelings and vulnerability flow or do you keep the emotional aspects of your personality behind a wall?

[oldshirt]

I think there could be barriers along these lines, but it's impossible for us to assess. It could also be something in your demeanor or personality. They could be thinking that you'd never be interested in them, not interested in men generally, that you're too independent or too dominant to pique their imagination as a prospective relationship partner. Assuming that you're attractive and feminine it has to be some kind of invisible barrier.

 

Sometimes exceptionally attractive women who are accomplished and independent seem to have the same issues. It could also be personality based if your nature is rational, orderly, decisive, and thinking oriented as opposed to feeling and expressive. When you talk to theses guys of interest, do you let feelings and vulnerability flow or do you keep the emotional aspects of your personality behind a wall?

 

 

That sounds awful complex. Men are simple creatures. "Cute and sexy" is usually all that it takes to garner male interest to the level of dating and getting a BF. (Healthy, functional marriage and long term commitment and family etc gets a little more involved, but getting dates and romantic interest can almost always be improved by bumping up the "cute and sexy.")

 

In this instance she isn't hung up on any one man that she is interested in so it's not a matter of finding what catches one mans interest.

 

She doesn't say a word about having issues with ONSs or booty calls or people just wanting to be FWBs so that eliminates her being too slutty or trashy or too sexy and not being taken seriously as GF material.

 

And she doesn't indicate that she has any trouble getting suitable men to interact with her or establish an interpersonal rapport with her.

 

That leaves bumping up the girl game and turning up the "cute and sexy" a little more.

[tolve]

Thanks guys for the responses. I'm beginning to see a clearer picture. In response to all the comments: Old.shirt thanks for the 'dummies' guide, believe me I really need it. I'm attractive and female friends and women are always telling me how pretty I am but sadly guys I like never have. Maybe they think they're overstepping the mark? I make up well and I do dress well. I'm smart casual, like big sweater and jeans and boots, nothing like torn clothes or sweatshirts. I don't wear low cut tops or anything like that though. Maybe wraparound dress and boots if I've got a meeting at work. I'm definitely not invisible and people always know who I am in work or wherever. In school while I was one of the girls who would sit in the back of the lecture theatre quietly somehow everyone knew who I was and I was friendly with everyone from the jocks down. And I honestly have no problem with interacting with men or making friends with them if I want. Also I am super independent and don't need a man, I just want one. Maybe that's coming across?

 

Also, nope, guys never hit on me for just sex. Maybe a couple of times max. A couple of my female friends once told me once that I was the typical wife material type of girl - what ever that means. (this wasn't because I asked them, we were talking about another friend who just has no trouble getting men for sex just not the right kind for a long term relationship, and they just mentioned 'she's not wife material like you')

 

Finally Salparadise, I'm wondering if you're right? I have often thought the same thing. Am I shutting guys down without knowing I'm doing it? With guys I really like I tend to think they don't like me, so I get paranoid that I come across as some freak who is throwing herself at them - so in my effort to show that I don't like them, I mess up totally. But with other guys, like just acquaintances or even hanging out in a line in a coffee shop why don't they just start talking to me? Or if they do they just leave without asking for my number or anything.

[tolve]

Oh and at the moment there is this male friend I am interested in. It's not a disaster if it doesn't happen but I'd like to know how to at least make it obvious that I would like to make it happen. Like I mentioned he initiates all the contact and has recently started calling me once a week. Old.shirt I'm guessing from your comment you think no guy would pursue a girl for just friendship right? So if that's the case what do I do now? I'd feel creeped out if I were to sit there in like a low cut top and start touching his legs giggling at everything he says! He's think I'd gone crazy too lol

[oldshirt]

Thanks guys for the responses. I'm beginning to see a clearer picture. In response to all the comments: Old.shirt thanks for the 'dummies' guide, believe me I really need it. I'm attractive and female friends and women are always telling me how pretty I am but sadly guys I like never have. Maybe they think they're overstepping the mark? I make up well and I do dress well. I'm smart casual, like big sweater and jeans and boots, nothing like torn clothes or sweatshirts. I don't wear low cut tops or anything like that though. Maybe wraparound dress and boots if I've got a meeting at work. I'm definitely not invisible and people always know who I am in work or wherever. In school while I was one of the girls who would sit in the back of the lecture theatre quietly somehow everyone knew who I was and I was friendly with everyone from the jocks down. And I honestly have no problem with interacting with men or making friends with them if I want. Also I am super independent and don't need a man, I just want one. Maybe that's coming across?

 

Also, nope, guys never hit on me for just sex. Maybe a couple of times max. A couple of my female friends once told me once that I was the typical wife material type of girl - what ever that means. (this wasn't because I asked them, we were talking about another friend who just has no trouble getting men for sex just not the right kind for a long term relationship, and they just mentioned 'she's not wife material like you')

 

Finally Salparadise, I'm wondering if you're right? I have often thought the same thing. Am I shutting guys down without knowing I'm doing it? With guys I really like I tend to think they don't like me, so I get paranoid that I come across as some freak who is throwing herself at them - so in my effort to show that I don't like them, I mess up totally. But with other guys, like just acquaintances or even hanging out in a line in a coffee shop why don't they just start talking to me? Or if they do they just leave without asking for my number or anything.

 

Yep, you definitely need to bump up the girl-alpha and add a little more 'cute and sexy.'

 

Don't dumb down your intellectual or business sense any, just add some more 'cute and sexy.' Think of it like a radio with two dials. One dial is all matters that deal with brains and intellect and character and confidence and independence etc. and the other dial is things like curate and sexy, flirtatious, seductive adventurous etc etc.

 

Leave your 'smart dial' where it is and start turning up your 'sexy' dial in small increments untill you get the desired effect ( and trust me you WILL get the desired effect soon. :-)

 

The reason I am confident you simply need to turn up the 'sexy' dial is based on how other females are treating you and the lack of men trying to get you in the sack for a FWB hook up.

 

If women are complimenting you on being wife/mother material, that is analogous to saying a man is a "nice guy." If you are putting your sexy vibes out there to an adequate degree, other women should be viewing you with suspicion, competitiveness, cattiness and saying things like, "I could never wear that!"

 

If women are comfortable around you and are giving you positive feedback on how "safe" you look and act - you aren't trying hard enough.

 

Bump up the sexy. It will pay big dividends real fast.

 

 

I'll address your other post and some other considerations below......

[newmoon]

should it really be that complex? if you are halfway attractive, chatting with men and engaging them in conversation, etc. and dressing for your body, and they still don't ask you out.. they don't like you. simple. they may like you to chat with, but not enough to date. a guy knows how to ask out a woman. and apparently women like to ask men too, so do your thing if you don't want to wait for a guy.

[oldshirt]

Oh and at the moment there is this male friend I am interested in. It's not a disaster if it doesn't happen but I'd like to know how to at least make it obvious that I would like to make it happen. Like I mentioned he initiates all the contact and has recently started calling me once a week. Old.shirt I'm guessing from your comment you think no guy would pursue a girl for just friendship right? So if that's the case what do I do now? I'd feel creeped out if I were to sit there in like a low cut top and start touching his legs giggling at everything he says! He's think I'd gone crazy too lol

 

Yes, no man will pursue a woman for just friendship. Their pursuit will always at minimum include sexuality as at least a component if not the sole objective. No man, at no time, ever just pursues strictly platonic friendship ever. Take that to the bank.

 

So, if he's trying to spend time with you and get you to do things with you, that's a good sign.

 

Here's the catch. You still need to turn up the girl-alpha a little to at least give him the green light. Where you are going to stumble is you exactly what you said above and I knew you were going to write that before you even posted it - you are going to feel out of your element and feel awkward and self conscious because it's out of your box.

 

Yes you will feel a little creeped out and you also feel he will judge you and be shocked by your behavior and be turned off etc etc.

 

A couple things to keep in mind. One is that he has his issues too and he's going to be way more hung up on his issues to worry about yours. He will just be thrilled that you are spending time with him and paying attention to him at all. He'll be flattered by your attentions.

 

And also - notice that I have always used words like "a little" and "incremental" and "turn up". I am not saying to go all Mylee Cyrus on him or put on your best stripper clothes and tie him to your stripper pole in the basement.

Don't change your core personality or persona......just put a little fresh paint on it and maybe a little shinier paint than you typically do.

 

He already likes who you are now so you don't want to change your fundamental persona or core character. You just want to turn up the sexy a little bit untill he sees you as a sexual being that is interested in more than calculus and gives him the confidence to turn up his own "sexy dial."

 

You will feel a little awkward and self conscious going out of your box, but we are kind of talking about friendzone issues here even though men don't friendzone women in the classic sense...they just move along to a more sexually responsive woman. Our goal here is to demonstrate that you do have some ovaries.

 

We do the same thing with men who are having friendzone issues. We have to get them to turn up their sexy by updating their wardrobe even though they are comfy in there worn out sweats and pit stained tshirts. We send them to the gym to buff up even though they'd rather sit in their moms basement playing xbox and we get them to grow a pair and be assertive and proactive and initiate contact and express their desires to women even though they rather just sit on the couch and have Heidi Klume come walking into their house in heels and fishnets and climb into their lap and just take it from them.

 

You are basically going to have to do the same thing and get out of your default comfort zones and out of your hamster ball of security a little. You should not dive into Sluthood headfirst and go all skank on everyone. Rather just titrate up the sexy and provocative incrementally untill you start getting the desired effect.

[angel.eyes]

To be honest, as a woman who gets asked out constantly, I'll tell you it has very little to do with what you wear. All my friends think it's hilarious that we can't walk a block without some guy coming up and asking me out. None of these guys are looking for a hookup. Generally they want to show me "how well they can treat me," take care of me, marry me, etc. even though they have no clue about me. This in a city where wolf whistling, cat calls, and hookups are standard. Most guys who do know me or see me somewhere routinely have also asked me out discreetly at some point. Again, they're looking for a relationship. I'm not hookup material, so I'm glad that's obvious to guys on dating sites and in real life.

 

I have a couple of friends who are prettier than me and/or thinner than me, but guys for whatever reason zoom in and fixate on me.

 

It comes down to the vibe you give off. Whether you seem approachable. Whether he thinks you would be easy to talk to. If he would really enjoy spending time with you and getting to know you. Whether he feels he could have a connection with you. Whether you pique his curiosity. Finally, whether you're "worth" the risk of rejection and whether you might make things awkward if you turn him down.

 

I'm very independent and accomplished. But I've never led with that. What comes across first are "softer" skills...my ability to put anyone at ease and to relate to anyone in a conversation. Plus I just really enjoy life, and people (men and women) gravitate unconsciously to positive vibes.

 

Best of luck!

Edited February 4, 2015 by angel.eyes

[salparadise]

It comes down to the vibe you give off. Whether you seem approachable. Whether he thinks you would be easy to talk to. If he would really enjoy spending time with you and getting to know you. Whether he feels he could have a connection with you. Whether you pique his curiosity. Finally, whether you're "worth" the risk of rejection and whether you might make things awkward if you turn him down.

 

I'm very independent and accomplished. But I've never led with that. What comes across first are "softer" skills...my ability to put anyone at ease and to relate to anyone in a conversation. Plus I just really enjoy life, and people (men and women) gravitate unconsciously to positive vibes.

 

angel.eyes is right on the money with this... the vibe is everything.

[spiderowl]

Without meeting you it's hard to know, but my suspicion is that you appear to be one of those incredibly independent women who seem very purposeful with regard to career or leisure interests and give the impression these things will come first. The women I've met like that are usually physically attractive, intelligent and super-organised, but they give off an air of being disinterested in men except via a mutual hobby or something. If I as a woman feel they are like this, then I wonder if men pick up the same vibes? These women seem unblinking (yes really) and almost stare too much. They come across as dominant.

 

I am guessing wildly here of course as I don't know you. If the above did apply to you, then I'm sure a guy would want to see signs of interest in them that is not based purely on a hobby or getting a task done, just something casual and fun (I don't mean sex!). He would probably want to see the more feminine side and I'm not talking appearance here but things like occasional sign of shyness or disorganisation, something that indicates you are not a perfect asexual shop dummy and that you have weaknesses and need support once in a while. If you never show vulnerability, it is hard for a guy to know where he fits into your life as you appear not to need him for anything.

 

I'm probably completely wrong about you and way off the mark, but who knows? Maybe the above will help.

[elgringo]

Next time this guy friend comes over and you are sitting together, try reaching over and holding his hand. Simple but effective. For a more advanced move, take his hand and put it on your breast. Say goodbye to the friendzone!