A Catholic and a Buddhist

[Pocky]

I am a Buddhist, but my entire family is Catholic. My brother has recently attended CCD classes and has made confirmation and my mother is currently working towards that same goal. In a conversation prompted by the Terry Schiavo case, I asked my brother if he has it in writing as to who he would like to take care of the children if he and his wife were to pass away suddenly. His concern is, since I stated I would love to care for the children, but would respect his wishes, is that I'm not Catholic and he wants the children to be raised in the Catholic Church. I told him that if he wanted them to go to Catholic school and attend church then I would see that they did. He stated that during a discussion with our father regarding his CCD class, my father commented that he would give anything to have me go to CCD class and receive my confirmation.

 

My dilemma: I adore my father. Even though I disagree with how he has handled my decisions regarding religion (he hasn't been very nice or accepting of my path in life), I would like to do something that would make him happy. Since it seems to mean so much to him, I felt I should at least contemplate the issues.

 

I have every intention of remaining Buddhist, however would it be wrong of me to attend a CCD class, receive confirmation if I didn't believe in the teachings of the church? Would it be wrong for me to do this for my father? Would it be wrong for me to make a promise to follow the church even though I have no intention doing that?

 

A part of me believes it would be wrong since I wouldn't believe in anything I was being taught. I wouldn't assign these doctrines to my life and I wouldn't practice the religion I am about to promise to practice. But then, part of me wonders if my making this sacrifice for my father is wrong. I have no interest to do this, but I'd do it for him.

[tanbark813]

I think in this case "wrong" is very subjective. Though I will say it's admirable you're contemplating doing it just for your father.

[d'Arthez]

This is a very hard issue. But I would not do it. You chose your beliefs, in a conscious decision, and thus rejecting Catholic beliefs.

 

A part of me believes it would be wrong since I wouldn't believe in anything I was being taught. I wouldn't assign these doctrines to my life and I wouldn't practice the religion I am about to promise to practice. But then, part of me wonders if my making this sacrifice for my father is wrong. I have no interest to do this, but I'd do it for him.

 

It is not a sacrifice for your father; it is something that goes against your principals and vision on life.

You would not even make your father feel better, unless he thinks less of you (and the things you believe in now).

You really believe in Buddhist principles, you are going to stick to them.

 

If you want to do something for your father, try to do something different. Religion can be very important to people, but they are not the only part of life. There are other things you can do for him.

 

He should love you despite your "flaw." Being untrue to yourself does not make him love you more. It does not show that you care for him. And it does not make him feel more special to you.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Pocky

A part of me believes it would be wrong since I wouldn't believe in anything I was being taught. I wouldn't assign these doctrines to my life and I wouldn't practice the religion I am about to promise to practice. But then, part of me wonders if my making this sacrifice for my father is wrong. I have no interest to do this, but I'd do it for him.

 

Are you sure that these are all so....definitively separable?

 

My mom always talks about how converts to buddhism are so much more dogmatic than people who were raised buddhist. my grandmother and my Mom and her family see nothing wrong with being Buddhist but going to catholic mass.

 

Ever read Thich Naht Hanh's LIving Buddha, Living Christ? Jesus is one of his spiritual ancestors.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by blind_otter

Are you sure that these are all so....definitively separable?

 

My mom always talks about how converts to buddhism are so much more dogmatic than people who were raised buddhist. my grandmother and my Mom and her family see nothing wrong with being Buddhist but going to catholic mass.

 

Ever read Thich Naht Hanh's LIving Buddha, Living Christ? Jesus is one of his spiritual ancestors.

 

Yes, I have read it. And for me, the religion is separate. I'm sure you know that there are many different sects of Buddhism so it depends on which path you follow. I'm a Theravada Buddhist, which means I believe I am my only refuge, I believe I am solely responsible for my own path in life, my own salvation, my own judgment and my own nirvana. While I do believe that there are deities that assist you life, they have reached nirvana and return to guide others to this path, I don't believe in the Christian concept of God. I don't believe that Yahweh is my God and I don't believe that Jesus was sent down by him to die for my sins. I don't believe that my life or my soul depends on the single decision from one supreme being.

 

So for me, the Catholic religion is very different.

 

And as a side note, as I've been studying the Hebrew Scriptures, I find it interesting, especially since I never realized this, that Yahweh does not deny the existence of other gods or goddesses. He merely states that he is the God of the chosen people and they are to worship him. He doesn't deny that others exist. Maybe it's just me, but I find it interesting. Or maybe I just haven't gotten to the part where he does deny it.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Pocky

Yes, I have read it. And for me, the religion is separate. I'm sure you know that there are many different sects of Buddhism so it depends on which path you follow. I'm a Theravada Buddhist, which means I believe I am my only refuge, I believe I am solely responsible for my own path in life, my own salvation, my own judgment and my own nirvana. While I do believe that there are deities that assist you life, they have reached nirvana and return to guide others to this path, I don't believe in the Christian concept of God. I don't believe that Yahweh is my God and I don't believe that Jesus was sent down by him to die for my sins. I don't believe that my life or my soul depends on the single decision from one supreme being.

 

So for me, the Catholic religion is very different.

 

And as a side note, as I've been studying the Hebrew Scriptures, I find it interesting, especially since I never realized this, that Yahweh does not deny the existence of other gods or goddesses. He merely states that he is the God of the chosen people and they are to worship him. He doesn't deny that others exist. Maybe it's just me, but I find it interesting. Or maybe I just haven't gotten to the part where he does deny it.

 

Oh my gosh this is sooooooo not politically correct, did you see the South Park about Terry Schaivo (kenny in this case) and the angelic wars, and the video game, and the part where one of god's angels says "You idiot, don't you know the Japanese have no souls??!!"

 

I never could get how my grandmother could have an altar and spend hours bonging a gong and meditating in her old age, but cheerfully trot to mass. I didn't go to CCD class, I was in Catholic school and got confirmed and everything. For me, I believe Jesus was an enlightened individual and I do claim him as my spiritual ancestor. Thich Naht Hanh mentions this as well, the fact that Jesus indicates that we are all the daughters and sons of god and that his stories are similar to the whole theravadan mustard seed story of buddha nature - saying we should strive for "jesusnature" in the way that we interact with others, etc.

 

In any case, the dogma of the catholic church as it stands was created by humans, not by jesus christ, and is the result of centuries of tinkering. If everything is nothing and nothing is everything, if there is anatman, does it really matter anyways? To deny your father in this regard would be to emphasize the idea of self, right?

 

Honestly, I still go to mass every now and then, and enjoy the sacrament of reconciliation, because it feels nice. I like the pomp, the singing, the ritual. Is that weird? Catholic mass as entertainment? I do it respectfully, I don't laugh or anything, and I use the time for meditative reflection.

[tokyo]

What does CCD stand for?

[quankanne]

I'm a Theravada Buddhist, which means I believe I am my only refuge, I believe I am solely responsible for my own path in life, my own salvation, my own judgment and my own nirvana. While I do believe that there are deities that assist you life, they have reached nirvana and return to guide others to this path, I don't believe in the Christian concept of God. I don't believe that Yahweh is my God and I don't believe that Jesus was sent down by him to die for my sins. I don't believe that my life or my soul depends on the single decision from one supreme being

 

I think whoever is in charge of the RCIA ("conversion") program is going to discern this when you speak with them, and that will pretty much convince them that your intentions to continue with your sacraments aren't really of your own free will ... wouldn't it just be much, much better for you to continue the religious practice you prefer, but attend classes to stay "on top" of what's going on in the Church so that you are able to help you raise your brother's kids in their faith if/when the time comes? As hard as it is for your dad to reconcile the idea that you are following a different spiritual path than his, I think when it comes down to it, he's not going to want you to play the hypocrite about something as serious as your soul.

 

In any case, the dogma of the catholic church as it stands was created by humans, not by jesus christ

 

Catholic dogma, or interpretation of Scripture, reveals that the Church (known to Catholics as "the one, true Church") was founded by Christ, when, in the Book of Matthew (16:18), he says "'thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

Pete didn't say it, the other apostles didn't say it, Jesus said it; therefore, HE created the Church, not a bunch of folks claiming bragging rights, as your statement would have it. How the Church formed and evolved is seen in 2 Acts (2:42-47): "They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and the prayers …." Go to Mass, and you'll see those traditions continued – we come together as a worship community, we share in the Body and Blood of Christ, we pray each and every time ....

 

and is the result of centuries of tinkering

 

well, I guess when you're two thousand years old, some changes are going to take place when the human part of it evolves ...

[moimeme]

I have every intention of remaining Buddhist, however would it be wrong of me to attend a CCD class, receive confirmation if I didn't believe in the teachings of the church?

 

Would it be wrong for me to make a promise to follow the church even though I have no intention doing that?

 

Yes. You'd be a fake and a fraud. As Quank said, the RCIA leaders would surely figure it out and your dad's probably not that slow either.

 

Like a couple of the others, I see no conflict between Catholicism and Buddhism if you're a Catholic but there definitely is one if you're as adamant as you are that Christianity is not believable.

 

What you could do if you don't already is go to Mass with your dad every now and then. Even my avowed atheist stepmom used to ask if she could attend Christmas Mass with me. I always thought that was kinda nice.

[quankanne]

Even my avowed atheist stepmom used to ask if she could attend Christmas Mass with me. I always thought that was kinda nice

 

hee hee hee ... my heathen husband does that too!

 

What does CCD stand for?

 

something-something doctrine, one of the "C"s stands for "catechetical" or "catechesis." I think the current terminology in our office is "faith formation." It had been called "religious education" before that.

 

CCD is quicker to spell and most of us *ahem* older kids remember that from catechism classes

[pseud]

If you want to go to CCD classes and lie to get confirmed, then go ahead. So many people do that every day. Not enough people take religion seriously, so there is little you can do to disgrace it. If it will get your family off of your back, then I say do it. If you are a confirmed catholic, they really can't complain if you keep doing whatever it is that you want to do.

[Pocky]

Thanks for responding. The funny thing is, my father isn't a very religious man. He doesn't attend church or practice any religious traditions in the house. He's quite contradictory at times because on one hand he's very angry with me that I don't claim the Catholic faith as my religion and has commented many times that he made a promise to God when I was baptized that I'd be Catholic, yet on the other hand he never raised me in the church or instructed me in any religion. I had to begin my search on my own.

 

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your opinion. I'm pondering.

[moimeme]

The funny thing is, my father isn't a very religious man. He doesn't attend church or practice any religious traditions in the house. He's quite contradictory at times because on one hand he's very angry with me that I don't claim the Catholic faith as my religion and has commented many times that he made a promise to God when I was baptized that I'd be Catholic, yet on the other hand he never raised me in the church or instructed me in any religion.

 

Well then just call yourself Catholic. Clearly he's not all that interested in whether you actually are or not. Tell him you've converted, if you want. That way you're only deceiving him instead of going through a whole charade involving a year's worth of instruction and the devoted efforts of all who would be teaching you.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by quankanne

In any case, the dogma of the catholic church as it stands was created by humans, not by jesus christ

 

Catholic dogma, or interpretation of Scripture, reveals that the Church (known to Catholics as "the one, true Church") was founded by Christ, when, in the Book of Matthew (16:18), he says "'thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

Pete didn't say it, the other apostles didn't say it, Jesus said it; therefore, HE created the Church, not a bunch of folks claiming bragging rights, as your statement would have it. How the Church formed and evolved is seen in 2 Acts (2:42-47): "They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and the prayers …." Go to Mass, and you'll see those traditions continued – we come together as a worship community, we share in the Body and Blood of Christ, we pray each and every time ....

 

and is the result of centuries of tinkering

 

well, I guess when you're two thousand years old, some changes are going to take place when the human part of it evolves ...

 

I'm gonna stand by my statement. I spent my childhood going to mass twice a week, quakanne, I went to catholic school for 9 years

 

I totally understand and respect your appreciation of the dogma as presented by the bible, but I see the church as a body formed AFTER the death of christ to promote and propogate the philosophy that he put forth during his life, in ways very similar to the situation of the buddhist philosophy and the shakyamuni buddha, siddhartha gotema. Biblical quotes all aside, that's just how I see it. Tomato, tomahhhhto.