In a funk

[xxoo]

He has said I am his first choice!!

 

Ok!

 

Do you genuinely believe him? Does that conflict with this? :

 

But I don't trust he'd maybe like to pursue other women. It's just that practically and socially, divorce would be worse for him.

 

If you are genuinely his first choice, then it should negate the worry that he is with you because divorce is practically and socially worse. He is with you because you are his first choice (again, if you believe him).

 

See this is just it. I think after two affairs you don't get to notice other attractive females. Ship sailed.

 

Eh, he's always going to be human. He should be very sensitive about making it obvious, but he's not going to turn to stone.

 

If he's making it obvious, I'd call him out and ask if it is an intended hurt.

[katielee]

I'd like to be his first choice because he loves me and wants a relationship with me. And for any other practical/societal reason to not be included in this decision at all.

 

See and as a former wayward, I'm done noticing any other man while I'm in a committed relationship.

[xxoo]

I'd like to be his first choice because he loves me and wants a relationship with me. And for any other practical/societal reason to not be included in this decision at all.

 

Is it included in the decision? Or did he simply admit that he would be embarrassed by a divorce as an additional reason he's glad you're staying together?

 

See and as a former wayward, I'm done noticing any other man while I'm in a committed relationship.

 

We can't police thoughts. Is he inappropriately looking at other women, or not? If not, delving into his thoughts to know if he even notices is too much. You may not notice other men, but not everyone is like you. Noticing an attractive man is involuntary for me, but putting attention to it and taking a long look is certainly voluntary (and inconsiderate).

 

Both of these sound like you are trying to police thoughts. You don't want him to even think of other reasons to stay married or notice the attractiveness of another woman. This is unreasonable.

[katielee]

I don't know where the embarrassment thing comes in or how important it is. That's all I know.

 

Policing thoughts? I know I can't control what he thinks about but if it's wanting to be with another woman I'm not interested in staying. Could he please just let me know that so I can then make my choice? he NEVER did this before my affair so I do wonder why he does it now at times.

 

Two weeks ago we were in the bar and OW1 was there. He was one person away from her at the bar and then stared in her direction for a while when he brought me my drink. I asked to speak with him outside. He swears he didn't notice she was there. So, I have only his word. You can see where I'm at.

[xxoo]

I don't know where the embarrassment thing comes in or how important it is. That's all I know.

 

Policing thoughts? I know I can't control what he thinks about but if it's wanting to be with another woman I'm not interested in staying. Could he please just let me know that so I can then make my choice? he NEVER did this before my affair so I do wonder why he does it now at times.

 

Two weeks ago we were in the bar and OW1 was there. He was one person away from her at the bar and then stared in her direction for a while when he brought me my drink. I asked to speak with him outside. He swears he didn't notice she was there. So, I have only his word. You can see where I'm at.

 

I'm still confused about what he's doing. Is he obviously staring at random attractive women? Noticing attractive women and wanting to be with other women are two VERY different things.

 

About the OW1 incident, yes, it sounds like he's lying. That's a big problem--a trust issue. I doubt that he was having sexual thoughts about her. Probably panicking or feeling sick, if he did notice her.

[katielee]

I have no idea. But any lie is a dealbreaker.

[xxoo]

I have no idea. But any lie is a dealbreaker.

 

Ok, you don't trust him. It seems reasonable that he's lying about seeing OW right in front of his eyes.

 

If he isn't willing to get real and talk about that, what are you going to do? The deal is broken. It's your move.

[Confused48]

We can't police thoughts. Is he inappropriately looking at other women, or not? If not, delving into his thoughts to know if he even notices is too much.

Both of these sound like you are trying to police thoughts. You don't want him to even think of other reasons to stay married or notice the attractiveness of another woman. This is unreasonable.

 

She just expects him to act like he did before her A. We know he could. That he won't do that says he feels entitled now. At the very least he feels entitled to disrespect her. At worst he feels entitled to yet another affair.

 

he NEVER did this before my affair so I do wonder why he does it now at times.

 

Two weeks ago we were in the bar and OW1 was there. He was one person away from her at the bar and then stared in her direction for a while when he brought me my drink. I asked to speak with him outside. He swears he didn't notice she was there. So, I have only his word. You can see where I'm at.

 

OMG! This is just terrible, that you have to be in such close proximity to the OW. You have gotten used to this and perhaps don't see it as so awful but I'm thinking you are a saint to have stayed in that town this long. How can he expect you to keep this up?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee....it is so hard for me to read your posts. And of all people..you and I do share some similarities.

 

Once my husband had his ra and confessed...it was over....and he certainly did not do it again.

 

I have some questions.

Do you think in a sick way..he is still trying to punish you?

Do you think he still is not remorseful for his actions? Do you see real remorse? I mean from the depths of his soul remorse...not lip service..not just saying the right things....remorse that matches your own......?

[MJJean]

See this is just it. I think after two affairs you don't get to notice other attractive females. Ship sailed.

 

There is a difference between noticing other women as attractive beings that are lovely to look at and staring at them with drool on his chin. I know my DH is a guy with a pulse and will notice other women. I am ok with this as i notice other men. But we discreetly notice for a moment and then go on with the day. No ogling. Ogling is disrespectful to a partner/spouse.

 

If he's noticing and you're noticing he is noticing, let it go or try to have a laugh about it. If he's ogling, that's a problem.

 

Ok!

Eh, he's always going to be human. He should be very sensitive about making it obvious, but he's not going to turn to stone.

 

If he's making it obvious, I'd call him out and ask if it is an intended hurt.

 

 

She just expects him to act like he did before her A. We know he could. That he won't do that says he feels entitled now. At the very least he feels entitled to disrespect her. At worst he feels entitled to yet another affair.

 

OMG! This is just terrible, that you have to be in such close proximity to the OW. You have gotten used to this and perhaps don't see it as so awful but I'm thinking you are a saint to have stayed in that town this long. How can he expect you to keep this up?

 

Why should OP expect him to act as he did before her affair which sparked his affairs? The truth is that things have changed. Neither of them can be expected to act as they did before the infidelities. They have changed as individuals and their marriage has been forever changed, too. That's part of the consequences of an affair.

 

It is terrible for you to have to live near the OW, OP. What reason has he given for not wanting to move? If it's a financial and/or practical reason I can understand and would suggest avoiding OW as much as possible. If it's because he just doesn't wanna, I suggest explaining to him how much seeing OW hurts you and that the constant ripping open of the wound is going to harm the R.

[katielee]

Do you think in a sick way..he is still trying to punish you?

Do you think he still is not remorseful for his actions? Do you see real remorse? I mean from the depths of his soul remorse...not lip service..not just saying the right things....remorse that matches your own......?

 

I don't think he's doing it to punish me. I think he truly does not trust me, is terrified to be alone and needs constant reassurance that he's desirable or to check out what's out there if I don't stay.

No, if he had real remorse we would move. If he saw me making out with my AP and said to me, "I just can't see that person anymore." we would be gone. In a heartbeat. But because I'm not a "sure thing" he won't move because his job is one of the only things he has going for him, according to him.

[katielee]

 

 

Why should OP expect him to act as he did before her affair which sparked his affairs? The truth is that things have changed. Neither of them can be expected to act as they did before the infidelities. They have changed as individuals and their marriage has been forever changed, too. That's part of the consequences of an affair.

 

It is terrible for you to have to live near the OW, OP. What reason has he given for not wanting to move? If it's a financial and/or practical reason I can understand and would suggest avoiding OW as much as possible. If it's because he just doesn't wanna, I suggest explaining to him how much seeing OW hurts you and that the constant ripping open of the wound is going to harm the R.

 

yep. I have made myself a safer person by putting up more boundaries because of my affair - the consequence of it. He has gone the opposite way.

 

Oh I have I have. He says the therapists say that won't solve our problem. but they really don't. only his says that.

[MJJean]

yep. I have made myself a safer person by putting up more boundaries because of my affair - the consequence of it. He has gone the opposite way.

 

Oh I have I have. He says the therapists say that won't solve our problem. but they really don't. only his says that.

 

No, moving won't solve the problem. Buy he has to know it will be easier for you to move on together if you don't have to be constantly reminded every time you see her.

 

If there is no financial reason not to move I'd work on getting him to understand how moving will help you with healing and going forward. Make sure he knows exactly how important this is to you without starting a fight over it.

 

Is it possible he isn't putting in as much effort because he's trying to stick his head in the sand? As if putting in work will mean fully dealing with the situation in a way he's been avoiding thus far?

 

Does he truly understand how upset and hurt you are, how you feel insecure, and how it's because you need more effort from him?

[katielee]

Is it possible he isn't putting in as much effort because he's trying to stick his head in the sand? As if putting in work will mean fully dealing with the situation in a way he's been avoiding thus far?

 

Does he truly understand how upset and hurt you are, how you feel insecure, and how it's because you need more effort from him?

 

I think he's just hoping I feel better about it in time, so he's not inconvenienced by moving. It's been 3 years.

 

I don't know how else I can tell him how much it hurts. I have a meltdown every time. I will likely leave the next time. Not becuase I want to show him or punish him, but because it points out that I'm not his priority. And I just can't live like that.

[JohnAdams]

KatieLee, Just trying to relate to your husband as I was in a similar situation years ago. After my wife's affair, I felt defeated and self destructive. I was depressed, suicidal and had lost all the principles that I once held dear. I had an RA for a lot of wrong reasons. But, I think the primary thing at the time was I was just self destructive. I think I almost hoped my wife would kick me out. I found the RA did not satisfy me. I felt no emotional attachment to the woman. I still felt worthless, maybe even more so. I could have easily kept it up. When I saw how easy it really was to get another woman, I could have easily kept feeding my ego. I could have easily kept up my self destruction. Your husband may very well be in this spiral of self destruction. So, the question becomes how does he get out of the downward spiral? Perhaps individual counseling will help him? It is a hard road, hopefully you can get through your funk and come out better than ever.

[katielee]

Thank you John Adams! He's in IC. They talk often about how he can't make me happy/i can only make myself happy. I get the downward spiral thing. I know I hurt him terribly. But that is his journey. And I can handle only so much of being the collateral damage of his destructive choices.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katie...the issue becomes...you have to help him...and now he has to help you...and the amazing part is...you both now understand where the other is coming from.

 

If he is seeking help...that is a good step...

 

Be patient...and above all...be there for each other. It takes time....keep focused...your goal is to help him heal...his should be to help you heal.

 

That involves a lot of understanding and love. There is no time table...you have to do this on your own terms on your own timeline. If it takes you three months or three years..it doesn't matter. Every day counts...every day gets you closer to your goal....healing each other. You may eventually decide it just isn't worth the work...and to divorce...and that's ok too...because you did you best.

[MuddyFootprints]

Thank you John Adams! He's in IC. They talk often about how he can't make me happy/i can only make myself happy. I get the downward spiral thing. I know I hurt him terribly. But that is his journey. And I can handle only so much of being the collateral damage of his destructive choices.

 

Is his IC the only counselling that is happening in your marriage?

 

I feel for you. I get the funk.

 

As you assign accountability for his pain, you must accept that you are accountable for your own happiness.

 

Ultimately, it is your choice to be a victim or collateral damage.

 

Be careful of becoming a habitual victim.

[MJJean]

I think he's just hoping I feel better about it in time, so he's not inconvenienced by moving. It's been 3 years.

 

I don't know how else I can tell him how much it hurts. I have a meltdown every time. I will likely leave the next time. Not becuase I want to show him or punish him, but because it points out that I'm not his priority. And I just can't live like that.

 

How often do you run into OW? Is there any way to change your habits and routine so that you don't run into her?

 

If you've plainly told him, more than once, clearly, no ambiguity, that you really feel the need to move and start over away from OW and he won't budge then maybe you move out, say to a nearby town? Maybe that's what it will take to wake him up.

[merrmeade]

Hi, katielee, hard reading much of this. Don't have any advice except that I noticed maybe BOTH of you are juggling so many painful reminders and needs that you have gotten priorities skewed. Seems like everything is so big that you can't separate what's really a significant problem from what's a sort of long-term concern. I mean, the looking her direction then didn't see her (then can't say the truth because already denied) slippery slope of H's lies, THAT's significant. Living and moving around in a place where you run into OWs that frequently, THAT is and will continue to be a huge problem. But misreading each other's cues and love language, that's kind of a long-term R issue that has promise.

 

Otherwise will just say you never know what you'll find in a thread from the title. This had exactly some of the issues that get me down about my H, like showing affection. (The dog gets more.) But reading your posts and some of the responses helped. Sometimes I also make big things small and small things big. Sometimes we all let the repeat big stuff go and get too used to it. That takes its toll.

[katielee]

How often do you run into OW? Is there any way to change your habits and routine so that you don't run into her?

 

If you've plainly told him, more than once, clearly, no ambiguity, that you really feel the need to move and start over away from OW and he won't budge then maybe you move out, say to a nearby town? Maybe that's what it will take to wake him up.

 

I've seen them about 2 dozen times together. No, they show up randomly, even on my side of town. Beauty shops, furniture stores, bike trails, bars...

 

My IC has spoken of moving to a small town north of here. Everyone still shops here though...

[katielee]

I mean, the looking her direction then didn't see her (then can't say the truth because already denied) slippery slope of H's lies, THAT's significant. Sometimes we all let the repeat big stuff go and get too used to it. That takes its toll.

 

It's very soul sucking. I won't ever know if he did see her or not.

 

I AM starting to get a little numb. Every time it happens I lose a little love for him. And he knows this.

Edited February 4, 2015 by katielee
added sentence.

[merrmeade]

Every time it happens I lose a little love for him. And he knows this.

My therapist is making me give a little margin to the question of how well he really "knows" when I tell him or whatever makes me think "he knows this." Anyway, small change.

[Selfish]

Your last thread was about your need to finally accept that he isn't going to change and in order for you to be happy you need to leave where you live. I see you are having trouble actually taking those steps. Perhaps you need to focus on what needs fixing inside of you that you keep staying and waiting for something to change. Unless you do something (work on full acceptance that he will not change or start towards divorce) you will continue in the same place. Your not changing in this, your marriage is no better, he is not changing, nothing is changing. Since you know you can't change him. Do you want to wait for him to change (if that ever happens) or do you want to work on moving on without him?

[merrmeade]

Your last thread was about your need to finally accept that he isn't going to change and in order for you to be happy you need to leave where you live. I see you are having trouble actually taking those steps. Perhaps you need to focus on what needs fixing inside of you that you keep staying and waiting for something to change. Unless you do something (work on full acceptance that he will not change or start towards divorce) you will continue in the same place. Your not changing in this, your marriage is no better, he is not changing, nothing is changing. Since you know you can't change him. Do you want to wait for him to change (if that ever happens) or do you want to work on moving on without him?

Not sure for whom that was intended (kl, me or both), but I'm in the choir already. I totally agree. How to do that may not be so obvious, however.

 

One thing is becoming clear. That is, without purging myself of the anger and grief, I'll never be free. That sh-tstorm of emotions that glum to a BS from Dday onwards, right or wrong, a BS owns them, and they cannot be sublimated, ignored, swept under the rug or redefined. Those who burn couches and go crazy, they are better off in the long run in my opinion.

 

I think trying to reconcile too soon can create a detour for the BS and waylay the personal process. For myself, stubbornly believing that Shirley Glass had the magic bullet was a huge mistake because my H would never, ever be the WS in her book. Imagining that he would suddenly don a new personality and become the soothing witness and healer of the pain he caused me was utter delusion. The first therapist I saw had it right: Deal with what's happening to YOU now; decide about him later. Otherwise, this anger you never asked for and never deserved will never leave and ends up sucking away all hope, will, purpose and love.

 

Personally, I'm shifting my focus from fixing us to finding myself again, but first I've got 2-1/2 years worth of anger to ignite and grief to shed.

 

I don't know how much of that speaks to your issue, kl, but I can't imagine it's not true for most of us consumed with a stunted R or recalcitrant WS. Maybe it's your H's problem to some extent (i.e., never made time for the pain). But I cannot BEGIN TO IMAGINE living with hits, over and over and over, of seeing the OWs repeatedly.

Edited February 4, 2015 by merrmeade