Victimology of the betrayed spouse??? What do BS's have in common?

February 3, 2015

From what I've seen I'd say naivety is the biggest part. People don't look at the character of the person they date and marry, quite often. They look at behaviour strictly in relation to how a particular action makes them feel (she cooks and cleans for me, she must care, he buys me dinner and doesn't demand sex, he must care) but they don't look at the larger picture. ie whether the guy always puts himself first or always blames others and resorts to little digs and passive aggressive behaviour to justify himself, focuses on self-pity, is controlling, narcisist, etc.

It has nothing to do with trust. There is no cause and effect between cheating and people not going through their spouse's phone. There is a correlation between not facing the hard truth about your partner's true character and paying the price for it later though, IMO.

An example is a colleague of mine: her ex-husband cheated on her, he is also a controlling guy who makes his new girlfriend look after the kids they had in the marriage and he only has them one day a week. So clearly he is a selfish guy. She keeps getting screwed over by guys because she is 'perpetually naive' as a poster put it here. Some people are more likely to be victims than others, yes because they don't look after their own interests very well.

This is true. I've noticed recently that someone can notice their future H or W ALARMING character flaws displayed to others, both friends and acquaintances, and somehow overlook them.

I guess it's because they feel that it could never happen to them and they are so in love and it's somehow justified. Only to find out that those same character flaws apply to them as well. It just takes time.

February 3, 2015

This is true. I've noticed recently that someone can notice their future H or W ALARMING character flaws displayed to others, both friends and acquaintances, and somehow overlook them.

I guess it's because they feel that it could never happen to them and they are so in love and it's somehow justified. Only to find out that those same character flaws apply to them as well. It just takes time.

Kind of like people who cheat with married people. Glaring red flags of their character, you know lying and cheating on the spouse and all. Somehow that part is over looked and all they can see is a soulmate. People cheat because they can. Because of that very simple fact, anyone can be cheated on.

February 3, 2015

OP, I understand your question. I think to say, "anyone can be cheated on" is true. But I also think that just as people will largely agree that cheaters showcase strong narcissistic qualities during their betrayal, there are common traits or conditions that have manifested within the BS.

And I think we've identified some of them.

Even now, looking back over e-mails between myself and my ex leading up to her betrayal, I can't believe it. I can believe it, in retrospect, if I consider the two of us during that time in the strict context of an emotional sphere, emotional connectedness. Yes, there was some slight rift. Ever so slight. As a mature man, I would never have thought that "bump", that "unevenness" could set the tone for betrayal. But I was very wrong.

I had the luck or misfortune, take your pick, of reading firsthand some of the thought processes of my WS during this time, post-affair. That is to say, I snooped her computer. I was shocked. So shocked, I lost control of myself physically and began shaking. I couldn't believe the vitriol that came out of her. Where did it come from? I was cooking dinner for her just a few nights ago. I brought home a gift for her studio just a few nights before.

Funnily enough, of all the horrible things my ex said about me to other people, the one accuracy she upheld about my character was that I was "not a jealous man."

Cheaters select the traits in you that suit their ends.

February 3, 2015

People project the type of person they want their partner to be based on the emotions they feel for them - rather then actually seeing the cold hard facts about who they really are.

YES

The culture is based firmly on looks. We basically choose partners on how they look, we take a superficial glance at their other attributes but if they do not match up to our basic physical requirements they never get past first base. If we think they look good then they must BE good.

So right away, we ignore personality traits of a person in favour of how they look. We ignore red flags in favour of big guns or big boobs; being blond and pretty or dark and handsome.

Our natural instincts to produce high quality genetically superior offspring, overrule our quest for a life long partner, a life long partner that will fulfil our emotional needs.

Nature is about the survival of the species and that is why cheating and having sex with multiple partners is actually beneficial, it mixes up the genes.

BUT in our carefully constructed world we have conflict, in that our natural instinct is to reproduce with the best looking specimen we can find, but convention dictates that we also need to be able to live with them monogamously forever, and that is the hard bit. That is where the mismatch occurs.

We tend to choose partners primarily on looks, but in reality for our own benefit choosing on personality would stand us in better stead long term.

February 3, 2015

Cheaters select the traits in you that suit their ends.

Yes, but this thread is about the betrayed and the traits of the betrayed, what traits in you do you think led to you being betrayed?

February 3, 2015

Cheaters select the traits in you that suit their ends.

Great point and so true- the fact that my husband manipulated what is good about me, my ability to trust, the fact that I considered our marriage a partnership where I was his wife, not his Mother was surely used against me- for us, thats very difficult- he feels terribly that he allowed himself to be the type of person that used what is good in me against me- at first I felt stupid for being so trusting but in therapy I have learned to not allow what he did to change what I like about me-

I once asked- if I had hovered more, checked up on him more would he have cheated- he said it would have been too risky and he never wanted to lose me so, no he would not have but in the same breath, he would have been unhappy to be in a marriage where his wife checked up on everything he did, one where he had a set of rules, etc... its a catch 22 and comes down to either he will live up to the kind of marriage we both deserve or he won't-

February 3, 2015

Elaine, I guess by my saying "cheaters select in you the traits that suit their ends" I mean that I could be:

-clingy

-relaxed

-hardworking

-moderate

-supportive

-indifferent

-generous

-withholding

-romantic

-unsentimental

No matter. So long as it justifies their choice, in their emotional immaturity, it becomes relevant.

February 3, 2015

I agree somewhat with what Emilia said. There is naïveté, but you can't possibly know how anyone is going to react to all the curveballs life throws you. At some point, you do have to trust. That said, I do believe people should be way more objective in their evaluations of others long before investing any serious emotions in someone.

My ex H... He had a lot of positive qualities. Did I think he would cheat on me? No. Part of it was naïveté, part of it was that he was a very reliable person in a lot of areas of his life. He confessed... I didn't just find out... And we did go to counseling, and he didn't leave the marriage to be with her. So, you could say he was reliable in a sense... Didn't stop him from cheating though. The counseling did reveal how deep down selfish he was though. In ways I never saw before. Not out of wishful thinking or even naïveté. It was like being in snow for the first time. I just didn't know what it looked like or felt like until I touched myself first hand. Before then, it was just something out of my comprehension. That's what being raised by two parents who are honest and functional will do to ya, haha.

I don't consider my ex to be a serial cheater or maybe even the typical cheater, but I still made sure that subsequent partners did not have his negative traits. So far, so good.

Some character issues I observe with people prone to cheating is a lack of discipline in other areas of their life, boundary issues, narcissism, to name a few. To the extent that a BS continues with he wishful thinking, is where they may be prone to being cheated on again. My ex h was a big pot smoker in college and a bit of a spoiled rich kid. I don't date people with a history of substance abuse now, and I prefer people who made their own way in life too.

February 3, 2015

This is true. I've noticed recently that someone can notice their future H or W ALARMING character flaws displayed to others, both friends and acquaintances, and somehow overlook them.

I guess it's because they feel that it could never happen to them and they are so in love and it's somehow justified. Only to find out that those same character flaws apply to them as well. It just takes time.

*******************************************************************

I believe when D_DAY hit ...alot of us here had the thinking process of ( your H or W would do that to you, but Mine would Never do that to me..) Naive at the very least...

If all the BSs here were honest ..I think we would admit we saw Red flags for days....months maybe ever years before D-DAY....And had the belief it would NEVER happen to us...until it did...

Her is a very surprising survey 1. what it says for many peoples character ..2. the change in social attitudes for todays modern woman...( PLS not a criticism of todays women ... i know most men are weak and pathetic when it comes to sex....just noticing a change in behavior in the last 25+ years...)

A study of married couples ( survey was 7-8 thousand..pretty large group) 2008.. Only one question was asked "If you could cheat and NEVER be caught would you do it..? 72% of men said Yes...NO SUPRISE,,,,But what was the Biggest Surprise it that 68% of MW said they would have a A if they would NEVER get caught....

Where does that leave the rest of us??? Even if the stats are 30% off . still bad odds for anyone ....

February 3, 2015

I do not think their are inherent traits that make someone more likely to be cheated on. I do think that there are actions that, if done or not done consistently, repeatedly, and for a long time, can contribute to a spouse's vulnerability to an affair. BUT even then, the choice rests with the other spouse with regard to whether they respond to that vulnerability by trying to work on the marriage, leaving, or choosing to cheat. So even in those cases, it is not really about the BS.

There, I kind of nudged the ten foot pole. Hiding under cushions now

February 3, 2015

It can happen to anyone, because the perpetrator is the cheater, not the one cheated on. That said, it will happen more to women who are too tolerant and ignore red flags and let those men in thinking love will make them loyal, as well as women who simply choose to live in denial. Those are the ones married to the cheaters in LoveShack's Other Man/Woman Section whose mistresses are all puzzled why their man won't leave them. And those women with blinders on will be married to their cheaters until the day they die because it works for both of them.

February 3, 2015

it is my opinion that it is impossible to judge a persons character and place them Into a category of those who will be cheated on...just as it is impossible to do the opposite and place them in a catoagory of those who will cheat.

As human beings we process the character to sin....we also

process the character of choice.

In addition...placing people in differing situations and circumstances...can have an influence on the choices we make.

And what about those people who have been a bs and a WS? What category would we place them in?

I believe it is safe to say...anyone can be betrayed...and anyone can be a cheater. I have learned to never say never.

February 3, 2015

I have to say that naivety/not seeing the writings on the wall is probably more apt in some cases but not others. Example: serial cheaters don't just up one day and start behaving that way usually. In those cases during dating they've probably produced many clues as to their mentality or character. My father is a serial cheater and when my mom met him he was cheating and has never stopped I don't think for but brief periods. She went into the marriage downplaying those behaviors and believing he would change on account of their love. He didn't of course.

I think though that serial cheaters are a different breed altogether and most of them it's a deep-seated and entrenched behavior where they can be faithful to no one. However, not all folks who cheat are inherently character flawed. Many other cheaters are one time offenders who are subject to human foibles, lack of boundaries and the rest but it's not some inherent thing they believe in or continuously engage in. This may not be their entrenched character, but circumstantial, a time period of poor boundaries, stress, whatever it is, and thus it is impossible for someone's spouse to have identified this in them in the beginning seeing as though other contributing factors didn't exist in the beginning as well as we grow and change. And if the cheating occurs after years and years of a good relationship (with my parents for example, cheating has existed since the beginning, it wasn't something that popped up after years) then it is impossible that you would have predicted that at some point in say 20 years this would happen.

Anyone can be cheated on because anyone can choose to cheat or can "find themselves" in that position through whatever circumstance. That's why it's hard to predict because there aren't cheaters and non-cheaters as inherent, unchanging and stable characters where you are born that way. Except for people who have an entrenched flaw where fidelity seems impossible for them and they've built a pattern of this, most other people can never cheat their entire life and then do it one day and they're also capable of doing it once and never again and you cannot usually identify if your spouse will be a one time offender, you can more so predict if they have serial issues.

Edited February 3, 2015 by MissBee

February 3, 2015

I think people who fail to get to know a potential spouse's family, or at least their behavior patterns, can end up being cheated on, or at the very least end up very unhappy if the person came form a family with really negative behaviors.

An example of this is a woman I know who maried a guy who's really kind, sweet and caring. On the one hand, he's a great guy. On the other, he's also like some sort of bottomless pit for love and attention, with a certain degree of hypochondria and "poor me" thrown in for good measure.

We were talking about it, and she told me his family is really disfunctional, with the parents being really controlling of the kids. He was also physically abused ( extreme corporal punishment) but paradoically, spoiled because he was the boy in the family and also had a chronic health issue that got him attention.

He cheated on her, and felt horribke about it. He's been undergoing therapy both on his own and with her, and she told me he's making a lot of prgress.I give hi a lot of credit for working on himself and I don't think it's been an easy road for him to take.

I really believe that he is acting out old behaviors he learned as a child. He was used to being the center of attention, and in his adult life, he expected to be the center of her world. Most of the time, that was okay, but it didnt take much for him to feel neglected and look elsewhere for that attention.

I wonder if she would have gotten serriously involved with him in the first place had she known more about his family background? I'm not saying that everyone with a disfunctional family is going to cheat, but I wonder if it can sort of "predispose" someone to doing so?

February 3, 2015

What do BS's have in common? They all married unhealthy people.

A more interesting question for me would be, what do WS's have in common? They're all unhealthy.

February 3, 2015

The question then becomes...can a person be healthy when you married them...but then get sick...and then get healthy again?

And Can this be said of WS and bs?

February 3, 2015

Some thought-provoking statements coming out of this thread!

I'll try not to speak about cheater's traits but...boundary issues! This is huge. For the longest, I thought that I'd finally found someone who thought everything I did or said was golden. What a mistake. In reality, I'd met someone who couldn't put their foot down and say, I'm not happy with this. So, in essence, fights within a relationship ARE a good thing.

Could that in turn be a shared characteristic of the BS? A naivete to believe in "the one", in our "soulmate"? Isn't that a low-grade narcissism? Someone out there will fit ideally with me? I am special. There is someone out there special for me.

The other thing is, as a poster or several posters brought up, family life. I can't stress enough that I believe all sociopathic behavior begins with the parents. And I guess a person coming from a functional family is ill equipped to handle sociopathic behavior as it lies outside the realm of their imagination. I was foolish enough to think that if I was supportive, nice and loving to my partner that would exempt me from being cheated on.

February 3, 2015

I think some cheaters are just natural liars and manipulators that have been sneaky and devious since childhood. They do target people they deem as weak, whether it's too trusting, too nice, too honest.

The majority of cheaters, though, are just emotionally stunted individuals. They've had rough childhoods or have poor coping skills or self worth issues. With these people, they often don't fall apart until they face stress, disappointment, adversity, grief, loss etc. So it's possible that they appear to be well balanced people, simply because they haven't been tested yet. Some of these people have affairs, others develop addictions, others become depressed and isolated. It manifests itself in different ways. I think these people aren't thinking that they will end up a cheater or lose control of their lives. I don't think they are intentionally targeting certain traits, but I'm sure their subconscious does play a part.

Boundaries are huge, too.

February 4, 2015

The question then becomes...can a person be healthy when you married them...but then get sick...and then get healthy again?

And Can this be said of WS and bs?

I believe so. But then again I believe in redemption and that there isn't only 1 bad sin in the world.

I'd rather live in my somewhat naive world than a hard, jaded one. I don't want to hand someone else power over my well being that way.

February 4, 2015

What do BS's have in common? They all married unhealthy people.

A more interesting question for me would be, what do WS's have in common? They're all unhealthy.

I don't really agree.

Which goes back to my point that not every case of cheating is an entrenched negative pattern of behavior one defaults to because of FOO issues for example. Serial cheaters for example are for sure people working from a place of ongoing dysfunction but having cheated before isn't an automatic sign that one has deep-seated issues and is in general unhealthy.

Well-adjusted is on a spectrum, there are folks who are mired in dysfunction but no one perfectly functional lol. Most people have some issue or another but those we identify as dysfunctional are so because they exhibit this to a greater degree, in greater proportion, over and over for example. Cheating IMO, unless it is something one continuously does or exhibits no self awareness about doesn't automatically mean you're unhealthy. It may be a selfish choice, an unthinking choice, a problematic choice at the time, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that now defines your whole being and outlook.

Which is also why in dating people, I don't automatically write them off because they've cheated before. I don't buy that once a cheater always a cheater or once you've cheated you're automatically an unhealthy person prone to do it over and over. I more so focus on why they did it, how it came about and then how they've processed it and what their views and actions are going forward in new relationships. If they are rather nonchalant about it, have done it multiple times, don't seem self-aware etc. then I run the other way, but if it was once and something they seem aware of in terms of the hows and whys then I feel a lot safer trusting them.

I also make a distinction between cheaters and people who have cheated like I do liars and those who have lied. We've all lied but we don't go around calling all people we meet liars (even though we can reasonably assume most have told at least one lie that week)....we realize that one can lie for whatever reason good or bad in whatever moment but it isn't one's general disposition versus liars are those who continuously do so, with no self awareness, it's their default setting so to speak and unlikely to change as they see nothing wrong. That's also how I break down cheater and someone who has cheated.

February 5, 2015

I don't really agree.

Which goes back to my point that not every case of cheating is an entrenched negative pattern of behavior one defaults to because of FOO issues for example. Serial cheaters for example are for sure people working from a place of ongoing dysfunction but having cheated before isn't an automatic sign that one has deep-seated issues and is in general unhealthy.

Well-adjusted is on a spectrum, there are folks who are mired in dysfunction but no one perfectly functional lol. Most people have some issue or another but those we identify as dysfunctional are so because they exhibit this to a greater degree, in greater proportion, over and over for example. Cheating IMO, unless it is something one continuously does or exhibits no self awareness about doesn't automatically mean you're unhealthy. It may be a selfish choice, an unthinking choice, a problematic choice at the time, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that now defines your whole being and outlook.

Which is also why in dating people, I don't automatically write them off because they've cheated before. I don't buy that once a cheater always a cheater or once you've cheated you're automatically an unhealthy person prone to do it over and over. I more so focus on why they did it, how it came about and then how they've processed it and what their views and actions are going forward in new relationships. If they are rather nonchalant about it, have done it multiple times, don't seem self-aware etc. then I run the other way, but if it was once and something they seem aware of in terms of the hows and whys then I feel a lot safer trusting them.

I also make a distinction between cheaters and people who have cheated like I do liars and those who have lied. We've all lied but we don't go around calling all people we meet liars (even though we can reasonably assume most have told at least one lie that week)....we realize that one can lie for whatever reason good or bad in whatever moment but it isn't one's general disposition versus liars are those who continuously do so, with no self awareness, it's their default setting so to speak and unlikely to change as they see nothing wrong. That's also how I break down cheater and someone who has cheated.

It's nice to hear a well thought-out argument.

I can see your point, but like you I also disagree. Lying and cheating are similar, but there is also a degree of severity. If my GF asks me if I put gas in the car and I say yes even though I really didn't, it's not going to tear apart the relationship. However, cheating most definitely will...and can tear apart entire families. I lived through it.

If I say I filled the gas tank when I really didn't, will my GF be pissed? Sure. Would it tear apart a family? No. Hence, why the lie is considered "no big deal"...because in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't. So I'm choosing to lie knowing the subject matter related to the lie is minor.

BUT. Lying about fidelity? About being faithful? About the cornerstone of any relationship? And willfully engaging in an action knowing that it could tear apart your family and still choosing to do it anyway?

I view that as unhealthy no matter which way you look at it.

February 5, 2015

It's nice to hear a well thought-out argument.

I can see your point, but like you I also disagree. Lying and cheating are similar, but there is also a degree of severity. If my GF asks me if I put gas in the car and I say yes even though I really didn't, it's not going to tear apart the relationship. However, cheating most definitely will...and can tear apart entire families. I lived through it.

If I say I filled the gas tank when I really didn't, will my GF be pissed? Sure. Would it tear apart a family? No. Hence, why the lie is considered "no big deal"...because in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't. So I'm choosing to lie knowing the subject matter related to the lie is minor.

BUT. Lying about fidelity? About being faithful? About the cornerstone of any relationship? And willfully engaging in an action knowing that it could tear apart your family and still choosing to do it anyway?

I view that as unhealthy no matter which way you look at it.

I don't disagree that cheating isn't a healthy thing to do.

What I disagreed with was the idea that you married an unhealthy person, which means there is something inherently unhealthy about them that you didn't know and that designation of them being unhealthy is because they cheated. I think it's more nuanced than that which is why I gave the lie example, where if it were simply one instance of anything that determines our wellness, most of us would be considered unwell, so to make it a true personality issue where you can label them an unhealthy person in general versus a person who made a stupid/selfish/unhealthy choice, there has to be a pattern.

My mom married an unhealthy person, a serial cheater whose cheating is not circumstantial, not a blip on an otherwise good record, not the regular foibles we're all susceptible to but an ongoing, deep-seated problem that goes beyond a single relationship or instance. All cheating isn't that way and for me, the designation of "unhealthy person" versus "unhealthy moment" is a real one. I simply do not believe all cheating goes back to that person being an unhealthy person where the person "married an unhealthy person", it's the degree like you said, and cheating once for example isn't a pattern to show that you are highly dysfunctional more than it shows that in that period you made bad choices. Whereas an ongoing resort to cheating exhibits a well defined pattern of this being a part of your personality and the designation of you being an "unhealthy person" is more appropriate then IMO.

Edited February 5, 2015 by MissBee

February 5, 2015

I don't disagree that cheating isn't a healthy thing to do.

What I disagreed with was the idea that you married an unhealthy person, which means there is something inherently unhealthy about them that you didn't know and that designation of them being unhealthy is because they cheated. I think it's more nuanced than that which is why I gave the lie example, where if it were simply one instance of anything that determines our wellness, most of us would be considered unwell, so to make it a true personality issue where you can label them an unhealthy person in general versus a person who made a stupid/selfish/unhealthy choice, there has to be a pattern.

My mom married an unhealthy person, a serial cheater whose cheating is not circumstantial, not a blip on an otherwise good record, not the regular foibles we're all susceptible to but an ongoing, deep-seated problem that goes beyond a single relationship or instance. All cheating isn't that way and for me, the designation of "unhealthy person" versus "unhealthy moment" is a real one. I simply do not believe all cheating goes back to that person being an unhealthy person where the person "married an unhealthy person", it's the degree like you said, and cheating once for example isn't a pattern to show that you are highly dysfunctional more than it shows that in that period you made bad choices. Whereas an ongoing resort to cheating exhibits a well defined pattern of this being a part of your personality and the designation of you being an "unhealthy person" is more appropriate then IMO.

I think I see what you're talking about. If the person realizes the bad choices they made and learned from them, thereby making the appropriate life changes necessary to not repeat them, are they still deserving of the unhealthy person stigma?

I would say no, they don't. At the time they were committing those acts, most definitely. But after they've learned their lesson and evolved appropriately? No, I can't say they're deserving of it anymore.

I see what you mean when you say it's nuanced.

February 6, 2015

*******************************************************************
A study of married couples ( survey was 7-8 thousand..pretty large group) 2008.. Only one question was asked "If you could cheat and NEVER be caught would you do it..? 72% of men said Yes...NO SUPRISE,,,,But what was the Biggest Surprise it that 68% of MW said they would have a A if they would NEVER get caught....

Where does that leave the rest of us??? Even if the stats are 30% off . still bad odds for anyone ....

Actually, I'd say these are pretty *good* odds in the sense that there are just about as many non-cheating men (28%) as there are non-cheating women (32%). The trick is for these men and women to find and marry each other avoiding the other 2/3's of likely cheaters out there.

To address original thread question by stating the obvious: you're more likely to be a BS if you choose to marry someone who is willing to cheat.

Some traits to watch out for in prospective spouse if you don't want to be a BS:

Narcissism

Need for external validation

Oversized ego

Entitlement

Selfishness

Need for sexual variety

Unresolved trauma from childhood sexual abuse

Insecurity / inferiority complex

Inability to own up to short-comings

Blame-shifting

Conflict avoidance

Knight-in-shining-armor syndrome

Lack of introspection

If you date someone long enough and observe their behavior in a wide range of circumstances you generally will see some of those traits surfacing sooner or later. Honestly, folks put more thought and care in buying a new car than choosing a lifetime mate.

February 6, 2015

I think most of us have many if not most of those issues on that list at some point in our life....so that would pretty much include all of mankind ....and eliminate most everyone as a prospective spouse.

Maybe the smart thing would be to remain single and celibate.

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Victimology of the betrayed spouse??? What do BS's have in common?

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