dumped with no answers

[KBarletta]

It's because he took his eye off the ball. He admitted as much. He has owned his part.

...

She kept her eye on the ball.

 

Sounds like you are trying to blame him for her cheating, which I think is a stretch and not all that fair based on what we know.

[evanescentworld]

No, not at all.

What I'm saying is, that if someone cheats, there is already an issue within the relationship.

Nobody cheats if they feel fully fulfilled with their partner, and things are at a premium state.

 

Never have I indicated at all, that he was ever solely to blame.

 

But it's a reasonable conclusion that while cheating is her FAULT, and she is to BLAME for straying, the care and attention paid to the relationship was scant, and found wanting, from BOTH of them.

 

as I've said, he has already admitted his part, and owned it.

Kudos to him for that.

 

She's not here to approach and discuss the matter with.

It stands to reason therefore, that we can all only take the matter as expounded by the OP.

if they were both sitting in front of you discussing the matter, you'd listen to, and appreciate both sides - wouldn't you?

[Itspointless]

No, not at all.

What I'm saying is, that if someone cheats, there is already an issue within the relationship.

Nobody cheats if they feel fully fulfilled with their partner, and things are at a premium state.

This is not entirely true. Some people just cheat as they are never satisfied with what they have. So there doesn't have to be an issue with the partner that has been cheated upon.

[evanescentworld]

This is not entirely true. Some people just cheat as they are never satisfied with what they have. So there doesn't have to be an issue with the partner that has been cheated upon.

 

The question is - WHY are they not satisfied?

Their perception is that something is lacking, in order for them to be dissatisfied.

The partner will probably be the source of this, but it's fair to say they might not even be aware of it.

 

Dissatisfaction is always with the relationship.

It's never about "I have to paint the living room, fund the kids' school trip and get the car fixed. I think I'll cheat".

[KBarletta]

The question is - WHY are they not satisfied?

Their perception is that something is lacking, in order for them to be dissatisfied.

The partner will probably be the source of this, but it's fair to say they might not even be aware of it.

 

Dissatisfaction is always with the relationship.

It's never about "I have to paint the living room, fund the kids' school trip and get the car fixed. I think I'll cheat".

 

There are plenty of cheaters who do so because they can get away with it, plain and simple. And some who simply don't appreciate what they have and are chronically dissatisfied. It's not always just a bad relationship to blame.

[evanescentworld]

There are plenty of cheaters who do so because they can get away with it, plain and simple.

That wasn't the point.

Of course they do it and get away with it, that's not the argument or issue here....

 

And some who simply don't appreciate what they have and are chronically dissatisfied.

Yes, and this is where you're missing the point.

Why? Why, why, WHY??

 

It's not always just a bad relationship to blame.

Never said it was.

It's not the relationship that's 'bad'.

It's not even necessarily the betrayed partner, that's 'bad'.

 

But there IS a problem.

manifested or unseen, conscious or otherwise - something is tempting that person to cheat. And it's WITHIN the framework of the relationship.

[Light Breeze]

How about serial cheaters then?

 

Some cheaters do this because their sense of morality is warped.

 

I've known a few, who were "in love" with their partners but wanted more variety when it comes to sex. That's not within the framework of the relationship is it?

[evanescentworld]

How about serial cheaters then?

 

Some cheaters do this because their sense of morality is warped.

 

I've known a few, who were "in love" with their partners but wanted more variety when it comes to sex. That's not within the framework of the relationship is it?

 

I'm not totally convinced by this 'serial cheater' thing...

While I do understand that there are people whose morals would and should come under scrutiny, what's the difference between a player (single) and a cheater (married) apart from the obvious?

 

See, my problem, fundamentally, is that I don't think we're naturally - NATURALLY - monogamous.

 

I think it's part of social programming and peer influence.

I think it is nomal for a person to enjoy relations with various partners, and I think marriage places an unreasonable restriction on people to cleave to one other only, 'as long as you both shall live'.

 

Some people can, others can't.

 

That doesn't make them right.

In fact, if you can't stay faithful, don't get married, is my advice.

 

But 'serial cheaters' never could keep it in their pants even before the wedding.

 

And I think it's up to communication, openness and insider knowledge to evaluate that.

 

No, the partner is not to blame; but I know two guys who one might label as 'serial cheaters' (jumped from one relationship to the next before ending things with former partner) who then married and stayed faithful.

 

They're both relatives, and I'm very familiar with them, so I have a tighter handle on them than I would with mere acquaintances....

[Light Breeze]

See, that's why I was asking because my former bestfriend was a serial cheater and cheated on his wife with several different women in their 8 years together.

 

We were having a convo and he confessed this to me. I asked him why, and he said that "although I love **** I can't be forced to eat chicken all the time, I need variety!". Very warped in my opinion, that's why I don't believe that all cheating is due to something within the framework of the relationship. Sometimes, people just couldn't control their urges and further exacerbated by their lack of empathy. I agree with you, if you can't stay faithful why get married?

[evanescentworld]

Well, you're right, I guess.... I have no answer to that.

Perhaps it is as you say, there are some situations where a person just can't stop themselves, even though it seems on the surface to all be roses. sweetness and light....

 

But I think for a person to be a serial cheater, and for there to be absolutely NO responsibility on the part of the other person, is rare.

Given your comments, I understand it happens, fair enough.

But I think it's far more common for there to be a matter that needs addressing on both sides, even if it's 90%/10%.....

 

And in this specific case, on this specific subject/topic/thread, that has been acknowledged....

[Itspointless]

While I do understand that there are people whose morals would and should come under scrutiny, what's the difference between a player (single) and a cheater (married) apart from the obvious?

The big difference is that many people wouldn't have jumped into the relationship with the cheater if they had known this behaviour at the start. What it comes down to is that people have to discus some ground-rules. If you can't be faithful sexually search for an open relationship or someone who doesn't have a problem with it. Funny thing is that sometimes cheaters are very jealous themselves.

But I think it's far more common for there to be a matter that needs addressing on both sides, even if it's 90%/10%.....

 

And in this specific case, on this specific subject/topic/thread, that has been acknowledged....

It is always a good thing to critically examine yourself and your part.

[wicksee]

She kept her eye on the ball until she realised that no matter how many times she bounced it to him, he was never going to bounce it back.

 

At that point, she gave up.

And it was only at that point that he realised he should have joined the game with her.

I have to take issue with this bit. I don't recall a ball ever being bounced to me. Nothing was said, i had no idea she was unhappy! None! Until the day of judgement (so to speak!). Like I said, I knew there were niggles, but NOTHING that would justify leaving or chatting to someone else behind my back.

 

Let me be clear about that. I haven't caught her doing anything. I don't know the content of her messages to him. It just seems too coincidental that she messaged him for a month before she left, then posted about him on FB, and then finding her car outside his house at 11pm! There are too many dots to connect. She's now cut contact with me and I think that's more to do with the fact she may've been found out, than because I called her names!

 

Evanescence you're right that she's not here to defend herself. I wish she were! I've been as honest as I can be; I came here because I need answers that I'm not getting from her, and I don't see the point in asking if I don't tell you everything. We were BOTH complacent, no doubt, me more so probably. And it has taken this situation for me to realise a lot of it. We BOTH "dropped balls". But for me, there was never any question of leaving or cheating. I do feel I had more respect for the relationship.

 

Here are some of the things she's written to me during our correspondence.

Maybe you guys can get some clues from this that i've missed.

 

your attitude towards me on the day I came home to talk was very upsetting and dismissive; that’s understandable as you thought all was well with us and you were probably in shock, but I can’t help how your actions made me feel.

I then asked her how it made her feel. No answer.

 

Let me make something clear here. Ben had no involvement in me leaving you; YOU had EVERYTHING to do with me leaving you.

To which I replied "What did *I* do in *OUR* relationship that was *SO BAD* that you *HAD* to leave?".

Her reply:

I have not gone/been behind your back with someone else. There is nothing more I can say to make you believe me.

 

And most importantly, YOU didn't do anything in our relationship that was SO BAD. I know you find it hard to believe (because of the way I left), but this is about me; I wasn't happy, so I left. You never harmed me in anyway, treated me badly, or were cruel to me; I left for me. Don't ever think I have bad thoughts/feelings/memories of you, because I don't. I'm sure it doesn't make any difference to you; I just wanted you to know.

 

So the question is, was it an EA or not? And why was she unhappy? And why didn't she tell me before?

I guess no one can answer those questions, except her.

[Itspointless]

Her reply:

Quote:

Let me make something clear here. Ben had no involvement in me leaving you; YOU had EVERYTHING to do with me leaving you.

Really? She was bad at communicating, but you are to blame for everything, because she she wasn't happy? Wow. She sounds lazy. I do not know her, but she seems to be one of those woman who will find out how life treats us common people when her looks begin to fade in a few years.

[towardthefuture]

How long have you been NC? These are old conversations?

 

It sounds a little bit like she went out with this Ben as retaliation. Which screams rebound. I don't know what to tell you to do because I'm in the middle of almost the exact same situation as you. But that's what it sounds like. Now, where that ends, I don't know either. She maybe comes back, maybe doesn't, maybe you take her back if she does, maybe not. Who knows.

 

I would believe her that she didn't have a physical interaction with this guy until she left. I might not believe her that she didn't take steps to have him 'lined up' to coincide with her leaving you.

[evanescentworld]

Really? She was bad at communicating, but you are to blame for everything, because she she wasn't happy? Wow. She sounds lazy. I do not know her, but she seems to be one of those woman who will find out how life treats us common people when her looks begin to fade in a few years.

I can understand her comment (though that's not to say I'm in agreement with what she did).

 

I remember one guy who left his wife and took up with another young lady.

he said to her, in counselling,

 

"No, hang on, you have this wrong: I left you FOR <name>, not BECAUSE of her..."

 

And - sorry - but she hasn't blamed him for anything at all, so I do not understand the bolded comment above...

 

And most importantly, YOU didn't do anything in our relationship that was SO BAD. I know you find it hard to believe (because of the way I left), but this is about me; I wasn't happy, so I left. You never harmed me in anyway, treated me badly, or were cruel to me; I left for me. Don't ever think I have bad thoughts/feelings/memories of you, because I don't. I'm sure it doesn't make any difference to you; I just wanted you to know.

[wicksee]

Really? She was bad at communicating, but you are to blame for everything, because she she wasn't happy? Wow. She sounds lazy. I do not know her, but she seems to be one of those woman who will find out how life treats us common people when her looks begin to fade in a few years.

Sorry, I forgot to include this bit:

My previous email of YOU had EVERYTHING to do with me leaving, was me merely trying to explain that it wasn't to do with anyone else; I didn't make that clear, apologies.

[wicksee]

How long have you been NC? These are old conversations?

 

It sounds a little bit like she went out with this Ben as retaliation. Which screams rebound. I don't know what to tell you to do because I'm in the middle of almost the exact same situation as you. But that's what it sounds like. Now, where that ends, I don't know either. She maybe comes back, maybe doesn't, maybe you take her back if she does, maybe not. Who knows.

 

I would believe her that she didn't have a physical interaction with this guy until she left. I might not believe her that she didn't take steps to have him 'lined up' to coincide with her leaving you.

This email was from last Tuesday (13th), so fairly fresh. We've been NC since that day.

I agree with you. It does feel that he was being lined up, that is what my intuition is telling me.

I don't think I could/should take her back, even if she wanted to (she doesn't!). I couldn't trust her, I couldn't trust that this wouldn't happen again. Her communication would still be poor, so nothing would've changed.

I don't hate her, but I hate what she's done.

[towardthefuture]

This email was from last Tuesday (13th), so fairly fresh. We've been NC since that day.

I agree with you. It does feel that he was being lined up, that is what my intuition is telling me.

I don't think I could/should take her back, even if she wanted to (she doesn't!). I couldn't trust her, I couldn't trust that this wouldn't happen again. Her communication would still be poor, so nothing would've changed.

I don't hate her, but I hate what she's done.

 

I feel the same. I vacillate between "I would never take her back" and "I would take her back with severe conditions".

 

My BU was in late november. MANY similarities with yours. I find myself wondering how it will play out months down the line. Will she contact me, will she not, and to what end? If her new relationship is "getting back at me" for "ignoring her" (again, very similar to your situation, I didn't see any of these signs of unhappiness at the time), what does it all mean?

 

Only time will tell. I still some days wonder if I should break NC and try to initiate lunch or something just to find out what the hell is really going on. But I know that would ruin any chance on MY end of being open to reconciliation at any point -- I would only ever reconcile if she was begging and I had the power to demand changes, not beg for her to take me back and I'll make changes. I've made any changes to myself I see as being necessary. Ball's in her court.

 

Maybe you do/will feel the same way.

 

Every time a girl stops chatting with me on OKC though, I have this moment of, "Goddamn it I used to have a girlfriend"

[Itspointless]

Evanescentworld, I do understand your example. I cannot judge the way other people their hearts change. I can however be surprised with the way how bad people communicate to each-other and play the blame-game. Perhaps Wicksee was just as bad at communicating, that is possible. People usually start to communicate when the problems are almost beyond resolve, I just do not understand that.

 

As for that sentence I reacted to the part with capitals. It does not seem that she thinks about her part in the relation. I find that astonishing. I came from a family were expressing yourself almost was an obligation (also irritating on a whole new level). Wicksee told us that she was not good at communicating, it makes me think that she also has trouble reflecting.

[towardthefuture]

Evanescentworld, I do understand your example. I cannot judge the way other people their hearts change. I can however be surprised with the way how bad people communicate to each-other and play the blame-game. Perhaps Wicksee was just as bad at communicating, that is possible. People usually start to communicate when the problems are almost beyond resolve, I just do not understand that.

 

As for that sentence I reacted to the part with capitals. It does not seem that she thinks about her part in the relation. I find that astonishing. I came from a family were expressing yourself almost was an obligation (also irritating on a whole new level). Wicksee told us that she was not good at communicating, it makes me think that she also has trouble reflecting.

 

She will not reflect, probably, until her new boyfriend has used her up and dumped her due to all the annoying things she does that her previous boyfriend put up with long term. I know my ex probably thinks her next relationship will last 8 years because her last one did, and that's just 'how relationships work', and maybe she will be lucky and it will. But I suspect she's in for a timeline more similar to this

 

http://www.relationshiptalk.net/all-you-need-to-know-about-gigs-grass-is-greener-syndrome-2076.html

[KBarletta]

That wasn't the point.

Of course they do it and get away with it, that's not the argument or issue here....

 

 

Yes, and this is where you're missing the point.

Why? Why, why, WHY

 

Actually you are missing the point: Chronic dissatisfaction and serial cheating have *nothing* to do with the relationships. They are separate issues. That's the point.

[wicksee]

I feel the same. I vacillate between "I would never take her back" and "I would take her back with severe conditions".

 

My BU was in late november. MANY similarities with yours. I find myself wondering how it will play out months down the line. Will she contact me, will she not, and to what end? If her new relationship is "getting back at me" for "ignoring her" (again, very similar to your situation, I didn't see any of these signs of unhappiness at the time), what does it all mean?

 

Only time will tell. I still some days wonder if I should break NC and try to initiate lunch or something just to find out what the hell is really going on. But I know that would ruin any chance on MY end of being open to reconciliation at any point -- I would only ever reconcile if she was begging and I had the power to demand changes, not beg for her to take me back and I'll make changes. I've made any changes to myself I see as being necessary. Ball's in her court.

 

Maybe you do/will feel the same way.

 

Every time a girl stops chatting with me on OKC though, I have this moment of, "Goddamn it I used to have a girlfriend"

 

Well it's nice to know I'm not alone :-)

I also wonder what will happen in the future - will we be friends? CAN we be friends? Is this a rebound? I do feel that her communication problems WILL continue into her next relationship. Nothing will change that unless she takes steps to change it. That kinda makes me think "well, good luck to this guy".

 

Keep doing things for yourself mate. I know how tempting it is to break NC, but what will it achieve, other than confusing you again? I don't see you have anything to gain from it.

[evanescentworld]

Actually you are missing the point: Chronic dissatisfaction and serial cheating have *nothing* to do with the relationships. They are separate issues. That's the point.

Now you're going off-topic. ^That's^ not under discussion here....

 

And the OP has stated that she's emphatic she wasn't cheating with Ben, according to her, and he believes her, although of course we all concede it seems she had him 'lined up'......

[wicksee]

She will not reflect, probably, until her new boyfriend has used her up and dumped her due to all the annoying things she does that her previous boyfriend put up with long term. I know my ex probably thinks her next relationship will last 8 years because her last one did, and that's just 'how relationships work', and maybe she will be lucky and it will. But I suspect she's in for a timeline more similar to this

 

http://www.relationshiptalk.net/all-you-need-to-know-about-gigs-grass-is-greener-syndrome-2076.html

 

Wow, that looks just like my situation, right up to the NC part!

 

My ex did say something about thinking the honeymoon period should last longer. We'd been seeing each other for 2 years, and officially moved in together 1 year ago. How long did she think it was gonna last????

 

I know her previous relationship only lasted about 1 year. I don't know what happened there..... maybe the same damn thing!

[evanescentworld]

well, wicksee to summarise, it would appear that certainly she was to blame for exiting the relationship on apparently false pretenses, knowing Ben as she already did....

 

Maybe you were partly responsible for some of the near break-up crap, but if she was awful at communicating, then I'm certain it was far more on her side than originally appeared in the thread....

 

I posted elsewhere about the three must-have, absolutely vital components of a relationship...seems it was severely lacking...

 

I think right now you need to stop focusing on the whys hows and wherefores, and concentrate instead on your own progress and coming out of this.

 

If this is how she behaves, you can feel partly sorry for Ben.....

 

because she seems to make a habit of this....

Insanity is constantly repeating the same behaviour and expecting a different result...

Looks like she may be a case of 'nutsville'....