I don't want to vaccinate my toddler

[dixiepix]

Just wondering what the general opinion is on infant/toddler immunizations? DTaP and MMR to be precise. I have a 3 1/2 year old son who reached all growth milestones on time even began speech patterns up until he was about 12-14 months old. Shortly after one of his rounds of shots he just quit talking all together...Didn't say Mama or Dada or anything for about 1 1/2 yrs. He also out of nowhere came down with pertussis better known as whooping cough. The very same thing he had just had 3 previous vaccinations for. He now has severe upper respiratory infections which include the barking cough, with asthma-like symptoms. After that round of shots, he literally slept for about 6 months. Doctors just stated that all babies are different, some need more sleep than others...So now he is 3 1/2 with the speech of an 18 month old, but is very intelligent.

 

Reason I am asking is that I also have a 10 month old. I have noted jerking type convulsions shortly after he got shots a few days ago, I did not think much of it at first...he'd just been jabbed in the leg with 3 needles. But after 4 days of this it brought back memories of that my other son had similia reactions to the vaccine....and even then , when I reported these side effects to the pediatrician told me these were normal symptoms of the vaccine. In fact the staring out into space like he didn't recognize me was ignored as well. This morning, 7 days after the shot, I notice that one of the sites where a shot was administered is blistered about the size of a pencil eraser, with swelling the size of a quarter. He has also exhibited weakness in his legs...has been pulling up standing for about 2 months...was just starting the motions of using furniture to walk and now can't stand alone. Dare I continue this. I have pre-nursing background but am starting to question the pros and cons of the vaccines.

 

Does anyone have a similiar story or words of advice or caution. Well gotta go...time for my 3 year old to get his breathing treatment

[moimeme]

I would get in touch with a teaching hospital that specializes in pediatrics. While vaccines are supposed to be safe for most kids, your kids might be allergic to something in the vaccines. And if you're using the same pediatrician, at minimum get more opinions but aim for a teaching hospital.

[tiki]

I administered injections to babies and kids for three years. Some of the symptoms you listed sound normal. It's normal for there to be somewhat of a decreased motion to the injection site. Was it three injection sites, or all in the same area?

 

We would always recommend to the mother to massage the injection site immediately thereafter so that the medication gets worked into the muscle. Then use Tylenol for pain. Children may experience a low-grade fever, soreness in the area and decreased use. But not a lot more than that.

 

Some patients have an allergy to the DTP (Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis). It's the most common allergy I've seen from all of the immunizations.

 

I'd definitely have it checked into. The sad thing is (depending on where you are located), unless you get your children immunized properly, they will not be allowed in schools (and even colleges). This would mean that they could potentially pass these diseases onto the other children, and no one wants that. But an allergy to the immunization could be a different story.

 

Has either of your children been allergy tested? Are they being smoked around?

 

Anyway, I'd check into having them checked out. Maybe even google an allergy to DTP (or DPT - I think I've seen it both ways).

[HokeyReligions]

I did not have my kids vaccinated until they were 10. My son's illness and the meds he had to take was all I needed to excuse him and I claimed my religious beliefs (OK, so I fudged the truth to get around the law---happens all the time) to keep from vaccinating my daughter and still getting her in school. If they had been in pre-school I would have had it done earlier, but the side effects of the shots was something I wanted to avoid. I know a lot of parents who don't think the vaccinations are everything they say. Sometimes it's not worth the risk.

 

However, a lot depends on where you live and what your kids will be exposed to. I was nervous about it because a friend of mine from work had his child immunized and the poor baby was paralyzed for several years and had to be in PT for a looooong time. It was a rare side effect/reaction, but it was enough to scare me.

 

Not having the immunizations had nothing to do with my children's deaths. My son had epilepsy from infancy and my daughters heart condition is genetic.

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by moimeme

I would get in touch with a teaching hospital that specializes in pediatrics. While vaccines are supposed to be safe for most kids, your kids might be allergic to something in the vaccines. And if you're using the same pediatrician, at minimum get more opinions but aim for a teaching hospital.

 

I used 2 different pediatritians and the local health dept. Funny, yesterday when I called requesting the lot # etc. of the shot. They all said they would be happy to provide me with this information, but would not be able to administer shots to my children any longer that I'd need to find someone else. Go Figure. My family doctor is looking into a pediatrician that supposedly tries to predetermine if one's child might have a reaction to a vaccine before it is administered...still wating.

[tiki]

 

Whaaaa????? I can't imagine why they'd be denying your kiddo shots from here on out, they are the health department?! Did you cause a stink?

 

Hokey's right, I've seen people get out of immunizations stating religious preferences.

 

I'd have this whole thing checked into.

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by tiki

I administered injections to babies and kids for three years. Some of the symptoms you listed sound normal. It's normal for there to be somewhat of a decreased motion to the injection site. Was it three injection sites, or all in the same area? Children may experience a low-grade fever, soreness in the area and decreased use. But not a lot more than that.

 

I'd definitely have it checked into. The sad thing is (depending on where you are located), unless you get your children immunized properly, they will not be allowed in schools (and even colleges). This would mean that they could potentially pass these diseases onto the other children, and no one wants that. But an allergy to the immunization could be a different story.

 

Has either of your children been allergy tested? Are they being smoked around?

 

 

Okay, I am aware of normal symptoms to vaccines.. But really what is considered normal and who mandates that ? I also have a 13 yr old who is fine and she had all her shots. But normal is a perfectly healthy 9month old baby who has never been ill, had fever or taken medication, trying to walk and talk. Normal is not: The first 5 days after shots, would stare blankly at me and shake his head "like a dog who had ear mites", and the 5 days of spontanious body jerking. and now at 7 days, a blister at sight of injection. Yes it was 3 injection sites. If I had not seen that my second son have the same reactions as my first son, ...I would not have identified these issues as being adverse reactions. With my first son I overlooked them. Side effects such as the somewhat unconscious jerking seizure was not told to me by the pediatrician or health dept. They mostly give you the"normal symptoms" list. It was not until I pulled the package insert on the internet and read it that I was able to identify other things that had occurred at the time of shots as being adverse reactions.. Kinda like...if you don't know what your looking for its kinda hard to find it. So if the paperwork given to me by the doctor only gives me a small list of not very serious adverse reactions, I'm likely not to pay close attention unless my child stops breathing or dies right. I mean my doctors trust this stuff yet they do not dispense the package inserts with the shots. And makers of these vaccines are not held responsible for damages because vaccines for the most part are government mandated. There are no other drugs being legally produced by a company in which the company would not be held liable if without a doubt it was the cause of injury. Anyway I would assume my local health department would still want me to bring my children in if they had that much faith in them.

 

Neither of my children have been allergy tested, but that is next on my list. We see so many doctors, speech therapist etc. My head is spinning most of the time.

 

Just out of curiosity, what does smoking have to do with it? PS I'm not picking on you, just looking for the best answers I can get

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by tiki

 

Whaaaa????? I can't imagine why they'd be denying your kiddo shots from here on out, they are the health department?! Did you cause a stink?

 

Hokey's right, I've seen people get out of immunizations stating religious preferences.

 

I'd have this whole thing checked into.

 

I just spoke with them yesterday, they were really nice and polite. All I did was tell them the symptoms and told them that the fact sheet that they gave me told me to report any adverse reactions, but that in order for me to do so, I needed manufacturer, lot # etc.

Reading the paperwork encourages feedback, but when one gets to the website it is at least a 30-45 minute form to fill out not counting the time one is going to spend getting all the necessary info. So I think it is actually designed to deter feedback. But yes the lady at the health dept. told me she would have copies of my children's record ready for pick up but I'd have to go elsewhere for continuance of shots. The next closest place to get shots is a 30-40 minute drive. I dunno...I am floored

[tiki]

Originally posted by dixiepix

He also out of nowhere came down with pertussis better known as whooping cough. He now has severe upper respiratory infections which include the barking cough, with asthma-like symptoms. Well gotta go...time for my 3 year old to get his breathing treatment

 

The reason I asked about smoking, is because (as you probably know) smoking can cause many problems in children and babies. They can even have chronic ear infections from smoke. I'm sure you know to make sure that NO ONE is smoking around the kids, even if it's the sitter.

 

Okay, I am aware of normal symptoms to vaccines.. But really what is considered normal and who mandates that ?

 

Our clinic based "normal reactions" on medical expertise, medical knowledge and education, and normal cases.

 

I don't think all of your child's reactions are normal. I said SOME of them....

 

Some of the symptoms you listed sound normal.

 

I mean my doctors trust this stuff yet they do not dispense the package inserts with the shots.

 

Of course they 'trust' it. It's taken years of medical research to find and enable these life-saving vaccinations. But not everything is perfect, and most meds do have side effects. I'd say that the positives far outweigh the negatives. But I still admire your concern for your children's sake. I'd definitely have them checked for allergies. Were they given an oral immunization for Polio? That one's easy to forget since it's not usually an injection like the others. It could be some type of reaction to that vaccination too.

 

Have the health department document all of the reactions in the patient's file. That way, you can always go back and have them for reference.

 

Good luck with it all.

[laRubiaBonita]

you said your daughter has been fine though? maybe it is a male thing?

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by tiki

Our clinic based "normal reactions" on medical expertise, medical knowledge and education, and normal cases.

 

I don't think all of your child's reactions are normal. I said SOME of them....

 

Of course they 'trust' it. It's taken years of medical research to find and enable these life-saving vaccinations. But not everything is perfect, and most meds do have side effects. I'd say that the positives far outweigh the negatives. But I still admire your concern for your children's sake. I'd definitely have them checked for allergies. Were they given an oral immunization for Polio? That one's easy to forget since it's not usually an injection like the others. It could be some type of reaction to that vaccination too.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

Yes, we do trust; that our research is looking out for our best interests, and yes they have helped to irradicate many threatening diseases. Upon typing in "adverse reaction vaccine" last night, I first found and read some different package inserts for vaccines. Have you ever read one? They are very technical. I can't help but wonder why these aren't given to parents prior to innoculations. Instead, they aren't offered at all. Thank goodness for the Internet. Even more mind boggling, I also came across information stating that in 1990, the the World Health Org....WHO, were overseeing massive campaigns against tetanus, in Mexico and a few other countries. This vaccine, however was only available to women between the ages of 13 and 45, and had to be received at certain intervals-3 within 3 months altogether a total of 5. Funny, I was always under the impression my 1-time tetanus vaccine was good for about 10 yrs. Eventually it was found that (hGH) normally only found in pregnant women had been attatched to a tetanus carrier..as a means of birth control. Initially when the body produces hGH on its own, it tells a woman's body to prepare the uterus etc. for the upcoming 9 months, but by attaching hGH to the tetanus vaccine, the body would seek to destroy it because it did not recognize hGH. The women were left immunized against tetanus but also inable to carry a child because if they became pregnant, they hGH antibodies to fight hGH, without the presence of this hormone, a woman can't sustain pregnancy. That technology was 15 years ago. Who knows what they are putting in our shots? I would immagine that vaccines have been tampered and played with a lot in the past 15 years. 15 years ago, a computer was a luxury...I didn't know of anyone who owed one except businesses. More food for thought, why vaccinate for chicken pox, a relatively common childhood illness, which a majority of people have few side effect other than fever and about a week of itching, all controlleable. Anyway, just sharing and wondering what you think. Thanks

[tiki]

Very interesting! I'm sure I've glanced at a package insert for the injectable, but never really sat down and looked at it. They break the drugs down to chemical and molecular levels, from what I understand. In school, we did a project where we had to do research a package insert, but it was for oral meds. I know there's different facets of the drug, like efficacy, side effects, adverse reactions and contraindications - crap like that, but my knowledge is limited.

 

About the Varicella vaccine - I can definitely see your point. OTOH, I know a little boy that has juvenille Rheumatoid Arthritis, and if his body is exposed to the chicked pox virus, he's sh*t outta luck because of his immuno-compromised state. And in school, the chicken pox run rampid (or USED to).

 

But anyway, I like your challenging perspective. So many people trust health care professionals out of ignorance or laziness. I say get second opinions and question 'authority'.

 

And yes, thank God for the internet! We'd be so information deprived without it.

 

I thought tetanus was good for 10 years too, btw.

 

I say don't stop searching til you get your answer.

[laRubiaBonita]

i thought HgC was the prego hormo.......

 

 

anyways....... on any drug adverse reaction list: they will list any condition that the testers experienced, whether it is related to the drug that they are testing or not.

so lests say tester A did not sleep well the night before, and tester B ate bad sushi for luch.

 

well "marked drowsiness" and "flu-like symptoms" could be listed as a possible reaction even though it may have not have been realted.

 

just be careful with the info you uncover. Most anything printed is biased, and studies are usually funded by drug companies.

[tiki]

Originally posted by laRubiaBonita

i thought HgC was the prego hormo.......

 

 

No, that's hCG (Human Choriogonadotropin).

 

Most anything printed is biased, and studies are usually funded by drug companies.

 

True dat. And as long as the are held to the FDA's standards, they're ususally good 2 go.

[laRubiaBonita]

thanks Tiks!

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by laRubiaBonita

i thought HgC was the prego hormo.......

 

 

anyways....... on any drug adverse reaction list: they will list any condition that the testers experienced, whether it is related to the drug that they are testing or not.

so lests say tester A did not sleep well the night before, and tester B ate bad sushi for luch.

 

well "marked drowsiness" and "flu-like symptoms" could be listed as a possible reaction even though it may have not have been realted.

 

OOPS, a typo on my part, we are both wrong in our guess. Upon checking the site again, hCG, is the prego hormo..that they used. I feel this experiment was probably in related to the now popular birth control shot. However, it was still given to these unsuspecting women...thinking they were getting free tetanus. I wonder what the duration of hCG antibodies were. Hmmm. maybe I'll try to find something on that. Thanks for the correction.

 

Anyways...the problem I have with the vaccines, is that you are not offered the package insert...which does include the entire list of adverse reactions, its chemical makeup (my husband is a chemical engineer), its probability of effective immunization. All these things are very important, yet getting a copy is like pulling teeth. Why is it that each time I go to the drug store, I get a drug fact sheet. When we get shots, I leave with a generic list of why to immunize and normal reactions. None of the pages I brought home inicated that an infant who jerks and stares should be seen by a doctor immediately. That stuff is only in the insert. Nor did anyone tell me that we need to get our shots from the same manufacturer to reduce adverse reactions. That was clearly stated in the fact sheet... as there are several companies that produce their own version of each vaccine. That too is clearly stated in each fact sheet.

 

But, I will also investigate the fact that maybe boys are more suseptible to adverse reactions from vaccines. However, had all my children been close together, I might have linked something with her. Who knows. As I said, if my 10 month old hadn't got the shakes and got that confused look on his face after his round of shots, it would have never dawned on me that, my first son had had the same thing happen. It was listed as an adverse reaction....except on the fact sheet insert. Thanks

[tiki]

We ordered most of our injections in multiple-dose vials. There's no way we could've handed out a package insert with every injection. And besides, everyone in healthcare knows that too much information (for the patient) can be dangerous. It's like handing out free sue me cards.

[laRubiaBonita]

this kinda ties in with Hokey's thread about information disclosure.

[dixiepix]

Okay maybe too much info is dangerous. However, no one can sue the doctor, or the drug companies, one would have to fight with the government, who took responsibility for the vaccines, because drug companies were struggling with suits. Nobody wants to have a 10 year fight with the government. I don't either. I do feel someone should take more responsibility to inform...the insert/fact sheet should be distributed to all. Hell, I'm one of those people who read those things about everything I take, every single time, in case something changed since last time it was filled....except the PILL take too many of those, they got boring. Guess I got into microbiology and biochemistry more than the average bear. I would guess that 90% of the population doesn't read them....unless they felt the need to because of a reaction. In essense, other than myself, I know of no one nor have I ever known anyone except my husband and I who read those things. Go figure

[tiki]

It all boils down to trust and false security.

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by tiki

It all boils down to trust and false security.

 

Yes it does, tonight, I HAVE TRUST IN NO ONE. My husband has put me in my place. "Shut up, put the kids in daycare and go back to school."

[sami]

It may be against the law in your state not to do.