oldshirt Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Hey OP... not sure if you're still looking for advice/replies about your situation, but I thought I would throw my own two cents in. I don't make a whole lot of money, but I've tried doing the "arrangement" thing with a few girls... helping out on the rent, etc. in exchange for, ahem, favors. What I've found, for what it's worth, is that it's best to be VERY upfront and very literal about what's going on. Like you, I've at times demurred when a girl asks what I'm looking for... in other words, not coming right out and saying "sex." I find this usually results in me not having sex, and often shelling out quite a bit of money anyway. In your position, I think you're going to experience the flip side of that... if they ask what you want and you don't say "money/financial support," you're most likely going to end up giving them what they want and not getting what YOU actually want in return. In general people are looking for the best deal in life, to get as much as they can while giving as little as they can get away with. If a guy can get with you by paying for dinner as opposed to paying your rent for the month, he's gonna do that. Likewise, if many women can get their rent paid by dangling the possibility of sex, rather than actually having to come across with it, they are going to do that. In the future, be upfront. If you're looking for X amount per month, say that. Specify what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do. Don't try to be cagey. It just leads to misunderstandings/being taken advantage of, on both sides. Which is exactly what I said in my first post. If you are going to turn tricks for money, turn tricks for money. 1
oldshirt Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I'll also say that, if you're looking for a real love relationship to blossom out of this, I think you're fooling yourself. You might find a wealthy, but unattractive/socially inept guy who's willing to marry you and support you long-term in exchange for companionship, OR you might find an older gentleman who's looking for a trophy wife/girlfriend. You're NOT going to find a normal, well-adjusted, well-to-do guy of appropriate age that you will hit it off emotionally with and have that eventually transition into a real relationship. That is a "Pretty Woman"-style fantasy. The kind of guy you're going to "like" isn't going to be looking for true love on an arrangement site. This is also very true. If you ain't Julia Roberts, Richard Gere ain't gonna fall in love with you and ride off with you into the sunset. and even Julia Roberts had to put out for the greenbacks the first night and agree to a specified price for specified services for a specified. time. Anything else is fantasy land. 2
oldshirt Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 And on a more personal note, I know I'm probably coming off sounding like a dick but I really don't mean it to put you down or rub salt into your wounds. I'm just trying to put things on the table and for everyone see them for what they really are. I'm sure you are a very good person. You are just out of your league on this one. You are probably a good person and probably a good professional at your previous job. But you are not a good hooker. The reason I'm being such a dick is if you are going to be a hooker/escort/sex worker/sugar baby...whatever you want to call it, you are going to have to get a lot smarter and a lot more streetwise and a lot more hardened and thick skinned real fast.
PogoStick Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 And on a more personal note, I know I'm probably coming off sounding like a dick but I really don't mean it to put you down or rub salt into your wounds. Aye. You seem outright obsessed and have repeated your opinions several times. Time to layoff. 2
MissBee Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 While prostitution wasn't in ANY WAY the point of the OP's thread or question, I must point out that by definition prostitutes and hookers sleep with their clients, sugar babies can and often do, but it is not required neither do all of them do it either. Whether one believes this to be true or not is neither here nor there, but I'm just saying that the idea that it is all the same isn't quite true. Sugar babies more so remind me of Japanese Geisha, who are not sex workers, but have a similar role in many ways to sugar babies, their time is paid for by wealthy patron, they get taken out, wined, dined, they are used as companions and for entertainment but do not have sex with their clients (maybe some do it on the low but it is not in any way a part of their job description whereas for prostitutes the sex is foremost and any other benefit is tangential). I think the OP has gotten what she needs though so a back and forth about prostitution seems to be an axe grinding that is completely off topic.
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Should I now go back to our original reason for meeting and bring up the allowance? Should I just wait it out and give The guy a chance? Or should I just look for someone else that won't ask me to chip in when I have zero means to do so and it's a choice between paying my bills or splitting a cheque? Yes just look for someone else!!! Why would you want to give a chance as a boyfriend to a man you met on an "arrangement" site who then asks you to pay for dates? That would make a pretty sketchy boyfriend don't you think?? If you want a boyfriend just date like normal and if you want a sugardaddy make sure you are both in agreement about the arrangements and sticking to the bargain!! It's business right? 1
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 so if you are going into this with the intent of finding someone to pay your way, how is this not sex for money? I don't understand why her sex arrangements are such a big deal to you, I read some of your threads and you have an unorthodox sex arrangement yourself, why aren't you open minded about other peoples choices?? 1
Eighty_nine Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Which is exactly what I said in my first post. If you are going to turn tricks for money, turn tricks for money. What is your problem? And what do you want from OP, exactly? Do you want her to declare herself a prostitute, close her acct on the sugar daddy site and start working the corners? Yes, you're being a dick. OP should be empowered to pursue any kind of relationship she wants. She seems totally comfortable with her choices; which is all that really matters. There are always people like you around to do the "slut shaming bit" for no real purpose.
Eighty_nine Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 OP I think you should just tell him you enjoy spending time with him but do not have the means to pay for any further dates. I'd follow that up by asking what he's thinking in terms of his willingness to help you with bills, etc. Say that, instead of using the term "allowance". It's now or never. If you don't bring it up the next time you see him, I don't think the situation will end well. If he's no longer willing financially then you'll have to decide if you like him enough to continue seeing him despite that.
ascendotum Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 ...... I just struggle to get my head round why people would have relationships with someone whose love is so conditional on superficial things? Heeey don't say that about money. The precious $$$$ is never superficial.
Mangina Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 It's prostitution and I do not think you are cut out for it. Just desperate. Check other options if you do not have any I feel bad for you.
GildedLily Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) This conversation is about sugaring, this is a concept of a mutually beneficial "relationship". It is what you make of it, but with millions of users online understand it is a common approach. Everyone has their reasons. To compare it to street walking is passive aggressive - understand everyone has a story. These "relationships" can be short term or long term, anyone I have spoken to has had a sugar baby for 3 to 5 years. The men want the company and the illusion it is not for money but to help financially because they can. This is not for the average joe with $ for a romp. that is why the agreement is the most important and where I have made my mistake. Due to my disability I will go 10 months with zero compensation and unable to work during that time as the Insurance company will use that information against me. I have exhausted my resources and I have no one I can ask. Yes, the desperation is true. But I did not even bring up set arrangement because I enjoyed this guys company - we are the same age, we live in the same neighbourhood, have friends in common - it all seemed like the two of us just got curious about this website because the other methods of meeting people didn't work. I was naive because, it is very true from the comments he is consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of why we met to begin with. I was honestly open to forgoing the allowance all together because in the brief time of getting to know him I was happy. Now he pulled what I consider a douchebag move at the movies over something very trivial which gave me a red flag (how ironic given the circumstances) that maybe it's not real. I don't understand the negative comments - it's a type of lifestyle that exists, the moral compas is based upon what the person wants, but the end of the day it's two consenting adults coming to the table with their expectations, including an allowance for the SB to enjoy how she pleases Hi, try this website, you'll have to register but you will find a lot more help there, look up web camming while you are there as well, you can do it from home and not have to get intimate with anyone, good luck and stay safe! http://www.stripperweb.com Edited January 21, 2015 by GildedLily 1
insert_name Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Heeey don't say that about money. The precious $$$$ is never superficial. Isnt one of the staple lines of a marriage vow "to have and to hold for better or for worse?" aaah who am I trying to kid? I think I was just starting to have some sympathy for the dude as if hes sticking around after the opportunity to pump and dump then maybe he has genuine feelings for OP for who she is...but really again its worth considering where they met- shes after money, hes after arm candy/sex. Seeing as the OP is nearly 40 in time he may decide to trade up, just as she may decide to seek an arrangement with a guy with greater resources. There is no security in a relationship like that because the attraction is not primarily based on the character of the people involved. I dont necessarily cast aspersions on that, a relationship can be deemed to be an arrangement as opposed to love and all that stuff. What I question is the insistence by the OP that there is more to it like chemistry. That is dressing it up to me and suggests that the OP is trying to legitimise this in her mind as she cant confront the brutal honesty of what this arrangement is all about. On a related note I dont get why dudes need a site like that in the first place- all they need to do is report to their local bar, start flashing the cash and they will have an endless stream of hot young girls 'seeking an arrangement' with them. Getting a woman who wants you for your cash is certainly not rocket science! 1
applej4 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 TOtiger – I asked what is your disability (assume you haven’t had a chance to reply).You might want to be careful about filing a disability claim while being out & about dating, going out to eat, movies, and having sex with men in exchange for money. It’s a very small world.As far as the guy you say things went wrong with, so he “said” his net worth is $10 million, but do you know that is a fact? Seems odd that he made you pay for your own movie ticket and foods. The chance of him giving you the $4,000 agreed on seems slim to none. If that was your goal why are you even spending time with him? You’ve gone on several dates and been intimate. He sounds like a cheapskate and a liar.Another thing – what you’re doing can be dangerous. Have you checked him out at all? I’ve seen lots of reports about these type of situations ending badly. I hope you stay safe, but just something to think about.I knew of a woman who was actually on disability and supplemented her small income by being what’s called a Phone Actress – she signed up with a company that hires women to do phone sex. To be honest it sounded icky but at least she could work from home.You obviously can use a computer and I assume you have a phone. Since this “Seeking Arrangement” venture hasn’t worked out you might want to look into work-from-home opportunities – especially ones that don’t involve sex.
Author TOtiger Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 I have an update from our conversation. It's unfortunate that when I try to include details in my responses, they sometimes get missed. I tried to give as much info. I met my "SD" last night after a phone call. We spoke on the phone and I told him that xyz upset me. He scratched his head and didn't understand why. We had made plans that night for drinks and he messaged me to trump our plans with a dinner of him and a friend and for me to either join them or meet after. I thought that was rude because we already made our plans and I told him it was to "talk ". He felt he did nothing wrong and felt 11pm was a perfectly acceptable time to meet for a drink - it can be downtown, but for some people it's too late. We ended up meeting and it was cold as ice. I was hurt and he was confused and aloof. A very cold and distant guy - which further validates he's not emotionally invested. Finally he asked if I was still mad and I answered no and wanted to move forward. I did bring up why he was on the website and hasn't ponied up? (I didn't say that but essentially) and he replied he didn't want to offend me? Well, I think he was playing me a bit too long on this one and this is what he said He wants all the benefits of a girlfriend (he's lonely and wants a companion, plus one, someone to bring to friends parties, he's invited me to his work to meet and obviously the intimacy). But no emotional commitment and no drama of what a real relationship carries. So basically date a robot - I was not ok with that because when he said he wanted a girlfriend I took it literally However, most to all men I have met who are of the age 28 - 45 all say the same thing - somehow there are women out there who also emotionally disconnect so there's no "conflicts" or "drama" I told him that wasn't me, I will say something if I'm unhappy --- but maybe I too need to learn how to choose my battles. I also told him that it was hurtful because I had already become emotionally attached and now I would have to stop As for the money, we didn't talk about a number or an agreement. I was just hurt that the guy that I laid with at night didn't see me passed anything more. You can say what you will based on the fact we met on this website, but I'm only human and I like him a lot. He really didn't want to talk about an allowance and played it off. Moving forward it's still a conversation that needs to happen. He did get out of bed while I was in the middle of talking to him about what I WANTED and threw an envelope of cash in my purse. It was RUDE!! He said that will "help me". I stopped the conversation because I didn't know what to do. If I continued would I be beating a dead horse who just gave me what I wanted without me telling him what / and how much He dropped me off this morning and this weekend I am joining him for dinner with one of his work friends. I checked my purse and he gave me $2000 in 100s. I have very mixed emotions of how he got to that number, when he got that cash , why he made a fun and threw it. I don't see him as a victim in any way. Is $2k enough? No. He was advertising double. So I have no idea is this is as a gift, for the week on an ask per basis. I feel he threw a monkey wrench in my negotiations I'm thankful he is willing to help, but he said my stress about my money is too much and it would be better for him if I wasn't stressed?! I also found that insulting - I have more questions as to why I am so drawn to this guy , I can't deny it though. I'm really interested and I'm willing to see how things pan out before bringing up a real conversation about an arrangement - it feels like he's trying to take my power away in this?
6Pack Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Ok, so now what it seems, is that he is using the typical passive/aggressive push/pull dynamics that some guys know how to "lock" a girl in emotionally. He is using an old-fashioned psychological manipulation technique on you, to get you to the point where he can get you hooked and eating out of the palm of his hand, and to where you will accept scraps from him. You were supposed to be BLUNT with this guy, and look what happened...he is still not paying according to terms, or at least is trying to dance around the subject. 2
CALOVELY Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 OP- You need to be very blunt with this guy and tell him what your terms are. By your accepting less, you have continued to muddy the waters between business and personal. 1
ascendotum Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I did bring up why he was on the website and hasn't ponied up? (I didn't say that but essentially) and he replied he didn't want to offend me? Well, I think he was playing me a bit too long on this one and this is what he said He didn't want to offend you. lol. GTFOOH. Really its the primary reason you are on that site. He is offending you by avoiding discussing his side of the bargain. He is seeing what he can get away with you. Probably a tactic he picked up over the years, somewhat in his experience with women but probably more in his experience as a successful business man. The talk should have happened before you ever peeled any clothes off. He wants all the benefits of a girlfriend (he's lonely and wants a companion, plus one, someone to bring to friends parties, he's invited me to his work to meet and obviously the intimacy). But no emotional commitment and no drama of what a real relationship carries. So basically date a robot - I was not ok with that because when he said he wanted a girlfriend I took it literally This is the way it works for lots of guys. That famous Charlie Sheen quote on hookers is true for many men. There is nothing wrong with that at all. It suits their needs and also suits the needs of many escorts who cater for it. If you are not the type of women that can easily go out to a bar in your little black dress to pick up a ONS when you want some sex, then I really don't think you are cut out for this type of arrangement. For sure there will be some 'Pretty Woman' type situations that can evolve for some of the SD/SB website connections, but you really can't go into it expecting that and really the younger women will have the best shot at that. Just treat him like an FWB, but a FWB who's very generously helping you out financially. He really didn't want to talk about an allowance and played it off. Moving forward it's still a conversation that needs to happen. Is $2k enough? You should not have had this discussion in bed. It should have been discussed over dinner or drinks beforehand. Sorry but he needs to discuss an allowance, if he wants to use that site. Maybe he is weird in this regard when to comes to a formal verbal arrangement in relation to your affections and would rather it all come down to his discretion & generosity, and also your level of enthusiasm (both in & out of bed). That scenario can be fine but it leaves you at a decided disadvantage early on until you know his level of generosity. You have received some money which is good but you don't know yet, how long between envelopes, so if you play it his way, you will have to go on good faith until the next one. As for is it enough...given your input so far, I'd say it is, but in terms of it meeting your financial needs, (assuming you get it every few weeks) that's for you to decide. If you have a minimum limit, you need to let him know, and any other SD guy you meet (on the 1st date) Edited January 23, 2015 by ascendotum 1
TB Rhine Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 ...sugar babies can and often do [sleep with their clients], but it is not required [nor] do all of them do it either. Nonsense. No man physically capable of having sex has ever willingly entered into a sexless "sugar daddy/baby" relationship. That really is a ridiculous female fantasy, that a guy is going to pay you exorbitant amounts of money for your "companionship." That's called dating, haha.
Versacehottie Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Well, by definition that's what it is. There are ways around it legally that would claim else wise. It's essentially looking for someone who is successful. I did my due diligence - I researched him, his company, his income, I even looked up his rental properties under his name. I found him on Facebook as well and we have mutual friends in the Arab community, I am Caucasian Christian. So he was not misrepresenting his income, it checks out. He wasn't misrepresenting his desire for a girlfriend as I am happy with our dating situation - but him splitting the bill is in poor taste given the background. I've had poor experience with online dating as you can also find all sorts, this was just recommended as something for me to explore. I'm comfortable with judgement because I'm comfortable with who I am as a person and I don't feel guilty for exploring other relationship dynamics. It's humour in the story itself, I mostly laugh at myself that I can't even find a man even if he has to pay for it Since you mentioned his ethnicity as a potential factor and also that you have friends in that same community, then his behavior should be a red flag to the proposed arrangement. As a positive stereotype in general, they are generous and chivalarious and since that is supposed to be the nature of your relationship in general, I'm very surprised he made you pay at all or made that comment. I don't think you will ever get money from him. I'd say "bye"
Versacehottie Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Hey OP... not sure if you're still looking for advice/replies about your situation, but I thought I would throw my own two cents in. I don't make a whole lot of money, but I've tried doing the "arrangement" thing with a few girls... helping out on the rent, etc. in exchange for, ahem, favors. What I've found, for what it's worth, is that it's best to be VERY upfront and very literal about what's going on. Like you, I've at times demurred when a girl asks what I'm looking for... in other words, not coming right out and saying "sex." I find this usually results in me not having sex, and often shelling out quite a bit of money anyway. In your position, I think you're going to experience the flip side of that... if they ask what you want and you don't say "money/financial support," you're most likely going to end up giving them what they want and not getting what YOU actually want in return. In general people are looking for the best deal in life, to get as much as they can while giving as little as they can get away with. If a guy can get with you by paying for dinner as opposed to paying your rent for the month, he's gonna do that. Likewise, if many women can get their rent paid by dangling the possibility of sex, rather than actually having to come across with it, they are going to do that. In the future, be upfront. If you're looking for X amount per month, say that. Specify what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do. Don't try to be cagey. It just leads to misunderstandings/being taken advantage of, on both sides. It's odd that I would "like"' this considering the subject matter. (No judgement but I would just wish for a different option being available to OP). Funny but this good advice applies to life in general. It's "like" worthy. 1
TB Rhine Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 OP, I really think you are muddying the waters here. If you want a sugar daddy -- i.e., a man who offers you financial support in exchange for time spent together and sexual services -- then you must make it clear that if he doesn't come through on his side of the arrangement (i.e., compensating you to the tune of the agreed-upon amount) you will not be obligated to come through on yours. If you are looking for a boyfriend, on the other hand, then you must abandon all pretense that you deserve to be monetarily compensated in exchange for your time. This is not how "real" relationships work. Ultimately, if your goal is to seek out a romantic relationship with a man willing and able to financially support you, you must accomplish that the way any woman does -- by restricting the men you date to those who meet your qualifications in that regard. In a way, you are in a "have your cake and eat it too" situation -- you want the benefits of an arrangement (prompt and guaranteed monetary compensation) without the drawbacks (in terms of whatever personal stigma you attach to the subject of exchanging sex for money), while also wanting the benefits of a relationship (emotional connection, not having to feel like a hooker) without the drawbacks of THAT (having to allow time to allow such a relationship to develop).
SawtoothMars Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 He dropped me off this morning and this weekend I am joining him for dinner with one of his work friends. I checked my purse and he gave me $2000 in 100s. I have very mixed emotions of how he got to that number, when he got that cash , why he made a fun and threw it. I don't see him as a victim in any way. Is $2k enough? No. He was advertising double. So I have no idea is this is as a gift, for the week on an ask per basis. Stop with this guy and stop with this website. You have no idea what you are doing! You are basically attempting to use a sugar daddy website to find a serious boyfriend... which is really stupid. Maybe I don't understand because I've never had the option to trade my dick for money. I once had to live in my car and eat from a food bank for months. Maybe if I was a woman I would have been tempted to magic my way out of that situation with some vagina power. 1
beach Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 My feelings were more important then the money - I maybe didn't emphasize that - it's just the dynamic of it all creates a complicated situation. My insecurities led to this point - not being direct and setting boundaries before becoming emotionally involved. My insecurities in trust when I question a guys true motives How can you be emotionally involved when it hardly got started? It's an arrangement. The money should have been discussed more thoroughly before seeing him. He should have been willing to pay since you were meeting him. What did you agree to? When was it supposed to be paid? And why close the account? So what if you didn't intend to see him again - that's your right but no reason to close the account - I would think you would be wanting to look for a more suitable business agreement with a different man.
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