Bretta28 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) My User name is Bretta28. I am a 50yo male who spent 9 years as a mental health Counselor. I find myself here on this website because of a very cruel break-up with a woman I have been seeing on and of for the last four years. I don't really want to discuss the details or cruelty of this woman that I have found myself in love with, because right now I am quite tired of that aspect of this relationship. What I did want to talk about was the impact of society on relationships, in regards to how I feel that society as a whole, fails to define the proper, or moral expectations of how to go about breaking up a relationship with a person who has tried in that relationship, to do the right thing. This has been an issue with relationships, that has interested me ever since my time working as an inpatient mental health counselor. The reason being, that we often dealt with the depression and anxiety that occurs in maany broken relationships. That anxiety and depression is something I am facing myself as I write. The main point I want to make is how society has changed in the last century. Society once played an imporrtant part in both defining what is morally correct, and in a way policing the immoral actions of people in many areas of life, including relationships. At one time in our history, not that long ago, it was common place that when a person wronged another in a relationship or or other matters, both friends, family and the community would step forward and let that person know what they had done, or how they had handled it, was wrong. By doing that, they reinforced the value of doing something in a way that helped a situation to get better, as opposed to making it worse. It has always been my opinion that when one person knows they are going to break up with a person who care for them, and has done them no harm, they have a moral responsibility to show a certain amount of respect for the person who may be quite hurt by the news of the break-up. Even if the person doing the breaking-up feels uncomfortable knowing that they are going to hurt that person, and would raather just break the news and run to avoid facing the consequenses it may have on the other person. Many times today, that is how many deal with the uncomfortable task of ending a relationship. It demonstrates their own selfishness, and in my opinion the selfishness of a more liberal society that fails to govern the moral expectations that promote what benefits society as a whole, but instead offers no reason to act with a sense of morality, as it is not societies business in how people interact with one another. I believe we do have a responsibility to be as kind and understanding to a person who we are hurting, especially when they have treated us well and we know loves us. We should take the time to show them that we at least care enough to help them deal with their sadness. The only thing that would excuse doing so, would be the safety of either person in the relationship. And as a society we should take the time to step forward in such situations to reinforce what is correct. By doing so we also help the person on the sadder end of things, by letting them know someone does understand their pain, even though the person they so cared for obviously only cared about themself. And by showing our disapproval and disappointment in the selfishness of the person initiating the break-up, we also help them in letting them know that its not acceptable to treat another person in such a manner. And finally we also remind ourselves in society that we need to remember such lessons when and if we find ourselves in a similar setvof circumstances. Thank you, and I look forward to any comments. I actually feel a little better now, but not much. Edited January 20, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Paragraphs 1
salparadise Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 It has always been my opinion that when one person knows they are going to break up with a person who care for them, and has done them no harm, they have a moral responsibility to show a certain amount of respect for the person who may be quite hurt by the news of the break-up. It demonstrates their own selfishness, and in my opinion the selfishness of a more liberal society that fails to govern the moral expectations that promote what benefits society as a whole, but instead offers no reason to act with a sense of morality, as it is not societies business in how people interact with one another. I believe we do have a responsibility to be as kind and understanding to a person who we are hurting, especially when they have treated us well and we know loves us. I don't think you'll find many in disagreement with the premise that we "have a moral responsibility" to show kindness and respect for the person we may be hurting in a breakup. The problem comes in thinking that society should police an individual's behavior on this micro scale and in such a difficult to define context. So what you're saying is that this woman did not respect you or help you deal with your pain, and your are dismayed that she has not suffered any consequences such as being ostracized by society... meaning your mutual friends who know the circumstances and behaviors I presume? I think society does this, but not in the manner or to the degree that you seem to expect. Having no conscience or remorse or just being an ass-hole is not illegal, but such people quickly find themselves not being trusted, not given the benefit of the doubt, and not benefiting from society's unwritten system of reciprocal altruism. You may have fallen for someone with sociopathic tendencies. Did you not notice these selfish, uncaring tendencies during the relationship? And if so, do you not feel that perhaps you failed in the responsibility to protect yourself from such eventualities? Some of us are simply easier targets and we have to sharpen our people-pickers. Society can't do that for us. I'm a bit surprised that as an experienced counselor you seem to be denying your susceptibility and outsourcing the culpability. 2
MJJean Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 What do you believe the person ending the relationship should do? I think respecting the person involves breaking off the relationship by stating it is over and explaining why it is over. After that there isn't a whole lot that can be done. Once a break-up occurs the mutual responsibility for each other has ended. 1
Mangiafuoco Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Once a break-up occurs the mutual responsibility for each other has ended. Responsability is the wrong word. When a breakup occurs no one is entitled to act like a switch turned off only because i have no more "responsability" about the ex that I'm leaving: "Hey, i'm leaving you, i have no responsability about you, so fk you and go to the devil!" No, this is not the way to act, this is only a lack of maturity (and happen unfortunately). Unless there is something bad happened in the relationship (violence or other like this). If i'm leaving a person once i loved, if i can afford it (IF I CAN AFFORD IT) i have the moral duty to help make this process as soft and kindly as is possible. This is all about to be a good human being. That said, it is important to understand that the dumper, in most cases, is not capable of dealing with the dumpee immediately after the breakup. There are too strong emotions involved, guilt, etc. In most cases it must pass a lot of time before it is possible for the dumpee and the dumper to be in contact safely for both. In most cases, unfortunately, the dumpee has to find alone the strength to return to feel good. Edited January 20, 2015 by Mangiafuoco
Gloria25 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 This breakdown in civility and common courtesy in relationships/relating is not only going on when breakups happen, but just over all. I mean, people treat others with such disrespect and it's considered "modern/progressive/etc". We just had a thread going on several pages where a young lady was contemplating whether or not she should entertain her bf's fetish to have other men plow her while he watched. And, the poor lady was feeling like something was wrong with "her" for not wanting to indulge in such degrading/disrespectful conduct. If people would just show some civility and respect, this world would be a better place. Like last year on OLD, I ran across a guy who I wasn't a "match" for. Now, a lot of times people will not respond to your contact if they are not interested and some go to the extreme of blocking your profile (which leaves you scratching your head)...this guy responded and politely said something like 'you're nice and all, but you're outside of my age range, good luck' and I responded with a 'thanks and good luck'. I didn't obsess, wonder, or feel bad. It was a respectful exchange between two people - even though it was a negative situation (him not being interested in me). I used to send out "thanks, but I'm not interested" e-mails, calls, texts, to guys I met and wasn't "feelin' it"...but, unfortunately, their lack of civility in response (one guy called me a b*tch, one stalked me online and blew up my telephone), unfortunately, I more than likely don't respond to a contact that might be interested in me. Now, if we've exchanged a few e-mails back and forth, then maybe I'll still send the "thanks, but don't think we're a match...good luck" e-mail cuz I still have some decency about me. I'm going through a situation where I feel the OP's pain - even though I believe I should take some responsibility here and back away...cuz, while we cannot control other's actions, we can control ours. But, at the same time, this person does things that catch my attention (i.e. following me when I was driving recently) and those things just pull me in back into this situation. In my situation, I believe the person is "attracted, but not interested", but when they do certain things I think they are interested and I start making up excuses as to why they haven't made a move and I sit around hopin', whishin' and a prayin'. This person appears to also be following me online. I'm not sure if they set up a fake OLD yet. Maybe I'm getting a little paranoid here. Also, with them following me on message boards like this, I feel sad/trapped, cuz at first I thought it was cool that they can get to know me, but then when they started taking what they know about me and putting it into practice to please others, that was a slap in the face. Now, I just don't wanna post here or other places sometimes. I actually feel like my privacy has been violated and I don't think they're gonna stop following me around on social media. I don't know why they are doing it. I'm leaning towards an ego boost/attention. I'm past them "trying to get to know me" in an anonymous way cuz of their current situation cuz I've voiced things that they do that hurt me, and they escalate. Like one time I posted that I used to have PDA with someone I was seeing, and they blatantly would in engage in PDA with others - knowing/suspecting that I'd be watching. How cruel is that? I've asked them to just level with me and tell me what's going on. If they'd just say "attracted, but not interested" or "the attention you gave me just made me feel good, and I'm sorry but I'm not changing my situation"...just tell me "something". But nope, they rather persist in what they do and who cares about who it bothers, cuz in their mind, they're not doing anything wrong. So, like the e-mail exchange I described with the OLD guy who I was too old for, that's all I ask - that this person just level with me what's going on. I think like the OP and me, negative/bad news sucks - but the delivery counts. Have some decency and treat people with some respect. It actually helps that person to have some faith in humanity and move on a lot quicker and shoot, probably leaves the door open to a friendly vibe so that if one day you ever cross paths or may need each other, you remember how they treated you and may be open to them again. Never burn your bridges. I mean, the way I'm being treated makes me wonder if all this is in my head, and it hurts my ego too, cuz I'm here making this stuff all up in my head and the person is like "yuck" when they have to deal with me in real life. Wouldn't that hurt your ego, make you feel ugly/undesirable, and make you wonder if you're mentally ill or something? But, sorry OP, some people are just mean and cruel...again, sometimes we have to take responsibility and extract ourselves from a certain situation cuz we can't control other people, we can control ourselves.
MJJean Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Responsability is the wrong word. When a breakup occurs no one is entitled to act like a switch turned off only because i have no more "responsability" about the ex that I'm leaving: "Hey, i'm leaving you, i have no responsability about you, so fk you and go to the devil!" No, this is not the way to act, this is only a lack of maturity (and happen unfortunately). Unless there is something bad happened in the relationship (violence or other like this). If i'm leaving a person once i loved, if i can afford it (IF I CAN AFFORD IT) i have the moral duty to help make this process as soft and kindly as is possible. This is all about to be a good human being. That said, it is important to understand that the dumper, in most cases, is not capable of dealing with the dumpee immediately after the breakup. There are too strong emotions involved, guilt, etc. In most cases it must pass a lot of time before it is possible for the dumpee and the dumper to be in contact safely for both. In most cases, unfortunately, the dumpee has to find alone the strength to return to feel good. If we're talking about a LTR or marriage where the couple lives together and has mingled finances, I agree there is a moral duty to help the financially weaker of the couple get on their feet. There is also a moral duty for the financially weaker of the couple to make serious effort to become independent as soon as possible. In cases where the couple isn't living together I don't see why the person who ended the relationship need stay in contact beyond the final conversation. We hear all the time that person X is not responsible for person Y's feelings and that is the truth. It doesn't give person X an excuse to be a jerk, I agree, but at the end of a relationship staying in contact can and often does do more harm than good. Both people need to move on and deal with their feelings separately. 1
oldshirt Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 What do you believe the person ending the relationship should do? I think respecting the person involves breaking off the relationship by stating it is over and explaining why it is over. After that there isn't a whole lot that can be done. Once a break-up occurs the mutual responsibility for each other has ended. Yeah I'm not sure what else can be done. Getting dumped hurts. Nothing will really alleviate that hurt. Some things will make it worse such as if there is some kind of intentional cruelty or gross indifference, but nothing will make it "better." I agree there needs to be a level of compassion and sensitivity but breaking up is breaking up, there is no painless way to remove that Band Aid. 2
Gloria25 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah I'm not sure what else can be done. Getting dumped hurts. Nothing will really alleviate that hurt. Some things will make it worse such as if there is some kind of intentional cruelty or gross indifference, but nothing will make it "better." I agree there needs to be a level of compassion and sensitivity but breaking up is breaking up, there is no painless way to remove that Band Aid. But the way you handle it can make it even more painful...
oldshirt Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Also, western societies have chosen to dispense with arranged marriage as a cultural practice and have chosen to allow the individuals to pick their own mates instead. That means that the individual is also the one responsible for ending the relationships they do not with to pursue. If other friends and family are not choosing someone's mate for them, that also means that they have no claim for intervention if someone chooses to end a relationship. They may or may not fully agree with their rational and they may not have dumped that same person under the same circumstances but the fact remains that they have no duty to act on behalf of the dumped party. 1
oldshirt Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 And from my own personal perspective, I'll admit a part of me would want my friends and family to rally to my support if my wife were dumping me, but at the end of the day if she wasn't into me, I would rather she did what she had to do and move along, rather than staying with me purely out of a sense of duty to my friends and family. If she were leaving me because thought that I had done something that I really had not, I would want my posse to clarify the misunderstanding and let the truth be known. But in the case of her simply not loving me anymore and wanting to be free of me, at the end of the day I would rather she leave amicably rather than stay begrudgingly out of duty to 3rd parties. We can't have it both ways. If we are going to live in a society where individuals choose their mates rather than leave mate selection up to to relatives, then we have to accept that individuals will also have the right to terminate relationships without prejudice and intervention from relatives. If there is going to be an expectation of familial intervention in a dissolution, then the family will also have the right of assumption of that mate selection in the first place. In otherwords if you are going to ask Mommy and Daddy to intervene on your behalf if someone is dumping you. Then Mommy and Daddy will have the right to ask for the right to pick your partners for you in the first place. If you want to pick your own mates on your own, then you will have to stand alone when you either no longer want to be with them and you will stand alone when they no longer want to be with you. 1
MJJean Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Also, western societies have chosen to dispense with arranged marriage as a cultural practice and have chosen to allow the individuals to pick their own mates instead. That means that the individual is also the one responsible for ending the relationships they do not with to pursue. If other friends and family are not choosing someone's mate for them, that also means that they have no claim for intervention if someone chooses to end a relationship. They may or may not fully agree with their rational and they may not have dumped that same person under the same circumstances but the fact remains that they have no duty to act on behalf of the dumped party. Exactly! When a person ends a relationship in a douchebag manner their friends and relatives might have a duty to call them out on their douchebagginess, but that is not the same as as defending the former partner or the former relationship. It's between the friend/relative and the douchebag. That said, friends and family that have gotten close to the newly dumped do have the option of remaining friends and being supportive. But, again, this is not the same thing as defending the dumpee or the former relationship. Edited January 20, 2015 by MJJean 1
oldshirt Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Exactly! When a person ends a relationship in a douchebag manner their friends and relatives might have a duty to call them out on their douchebagginess, but that is not the same as as defending the former partner or the former relationship. It's between the friend/relative and the douchebag. That said, friends and family that have gotten close to the newly dumped do have the option of remaining friends and being supportive. But, again, this is not the same thing as defending the dumpee or the former relationship. Yes, That's a good way to put it.
GemmaUK Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Personally, I figure that a person has a reason for breaking up with me and all I need to know is that they don't want to be with me, I am not entitled to a reason, Nor do I require empathy/sympathy from the man who ended it with me. Do you require these things? Expect them? Closure is a fallacy in my view as it prolongs things and is pointless.
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