Boundries, and the Point of no Return (Updated)

[Saltine]

I started reading marital relationship forums some time ago. Initially, I just wanted to find out how I might try to keep the sizzle in my marriage. I have been married for almost 49 years to my high school sweetheart. To this day, I am still deeply in love with my wife, and I know she is still deeply in love with me too. I am firmly convinced that both spouses need to treat their relationship as though they are both still in the courtship phase, even after nearly a half century of marriage. We still kiss and hug frequently, we still cuddle in bed, we often tell each other I love you, we both still do caring things for each other, and we still engage in passionate sex. She is truly my soulmate, and I am hers.

So, the reason for this post: Having read a number of heart wrenching threads about infidelity on websites like this, it leaves me wondering why didn't these couples establish clear bounderies concerning cheating. Men and women crushed after finding out that they have been betrayed, drive themselves crazy trying to get their partner to return to their marriages, and recommit to a loving, monogamous marital relationship. Betrayed spouses find out that in spite of changing themselves, snooping, begging, pleading, crying, threatening divorce, and exposing the affair, their wayward spouse is still involved with someone else.

I have never cheated on my wife, and I believe that she has never strayed either. There are a couple of very good reasons for this. We still love each other deeply, and both of us know without a single doubt that infidelity by either of us would put an end to our beautiful marriage. There would be no tearful appologies, no atonement of any kind, marriage would be over. I could not bear to bring that kind of pain to my wife, and I know she feels the same. I don't remember ever having in depth conversations with my wife on the subject of bounderies, but I KNOW there would be no coming back from cheating, period.

Why don't other married couples establish bounderies like this?

[purplesorrow]

I started reading marital relationship forums some time ago. Initially, I just wanted to find out how I might try to keep the sizzle in my marriage. I have been married for almost 49 years to my high school sweetheart. To this day, I am still deeply in love with my wife, and I know she is still deeply in love with me too. I am firmly convinced that both spouses need to treat their relationship as though they are both still in the courtship phase, even after nearly a half century of marriage. We still kiss and hug frequently, we still cuddle in bed, we often tell each other I love you, we both still do caring things for each other, and we still engage in passionate sex. She is truly my soulmate, and I am hers.

So, the reason for this post: Having read a number of heart wrenching threads about infidelity on websites like this, it leaves me wondering why didn't these couples establish clear bounderies concerning cheating. Men and women crushed after finding out that they have been betrayed, drive themselves crazy trying to get their partner to return to their marriages, and recommit to a loving, monogamous marital relationship. Betrayed spouses find out that in spite of changing themselves, snooping, begging, pleading, crying, threatening divorce, and exposing the affair, their wayward spouse is still involved with someone else.

I have never cheated on my wife, and I believe that she has never strayed either. There are a couple of very good reasons for this. We still love each other deeply, and both of us know without a single doubt that infidelity by either of us would put an end to our beautiful marriage. There would be no tearful appologies, no atonement of any kind, marriage would be over. I could not bear to bring that kind of pain to my wife, and I know she feels the same. I don't remember ever having in depth conversations with my wife on the subject of bounderies, but I KNOW there would be no coming back from cheating, period.

Why don't other married couples establish bounderies like this?

 

You are assuming couples didn't set boundaries. I know we did and I stayed within those boundaries. We as a couple didn't cheat, HE did.

[Realist3]

Boundaries are set right after the words, "I do!" come out of your mouth.

 

 

Boundaries are a different issue altogether than the decision to cheat, which is kind of, in a 'round about way, what I take away from your post.

 

I think there are several factors that enter in:

 

1. Dissatisfaction/poor choices in a mate

2. Ease. It is much much easier today than when you were a little younger.

3. Proximity. People who do things together usually form some sort of bond. Not suggesting that is the rule, but it does increase the risk. Workplace affairs are by far and away the most frequent.

4. Availability. Whether it be in person or text, the affair can't grow without communication.

5.Over-estimation of their own smarts not to get caught.

 

I am of the position that any decision to cheat takes place before any cheating actually takes place. There may be internal battles with that decision as it is taking place, but the decision to cross that boundary happened prior.

[nightmare01]

I've asked this same question many times and have never gotten a clear answer. And maybe there is no clear or understandable answer - especially to those of us who have been betrayed, or to those who have never had an affair.

 

There's a lot of talk about a slippery slope - where an innocent friendship starts up, but over time those involved become increasingly attached to each other. All that I can understand because it happened to me.

 

But there is a point where the relationship takes a BIG step. You've been sliding down that slippery slope and suddenly you realize you are about to plunge off a cliff. For me, I call this the "get naked moment". And it is in that moment that I cannot imagine how anyone can leap from that cliff.. wouldn't a person's inner voice be screaming, warning lights flashing... all that. And yet they go ahead, get naked and consummate their relationship - and there isn't any going back from that.

 

To quote my WW: "I cried all the way home after the first time we did it, and I swore to myself that it would never happen again, that I'd never do that again. But it did."

[beach]

Boundaries were set in my marriage which lasted 20 years.

 

My marriage ended the way you described. There was nothing to discuss - he cheated and I ended it.

 

He wasn't the man I thought he was. He turned out to be a cheater and a liar who only felt entitled to do whatever pleased him.

 

That's not who he presented to me when he asked to marry.

 

That's why it happens. Because one part of the whole doesn't keep their word or agreement...but at the same time doesn't allow the other half to understand the agreement has been altered.

 

Congrats on a healthy and happy looking marriage!

[Saltine]

Thanks Beach. The action you took is exactly what I would do....no looking back. The same goes for my wife. Knowing that I'd be risking losing her, I would never allow myself to make that "leap off the cliff". I also have a beautiful family that I'd be throwing away as well. I could never forgive myself for that.

[oldshirt]

Why don't other married couples establish bounderies like this?

 

Poland, France, Russia, Belgium etc etc all had boundaries established. The Nazis invaded them anyway. Kuwait had boundaries, Iraq didn't care.

 

Boundaries are only as good as people are willing and able to enforce them and only as good as other people are willing to respect them.

 

Everyone tried to establish boundaries and all couples who have not experienced infidelity say that the reason they've had no infidelity is because they had boundaries and wouldn't allow it. The problem is people who have been the victims of infidelity had the same exact boundaries and didn't think it would happen to them. It did anyway.

 

You're assumption that people who have experienced infidelity didn't have clear boundaries and didn't indicate it would end the marriage is flawed. The all said the exact same words and thought the exact same thing up until the morning that it happened.

 

It's awesome you've had 49 yrs of no infidelity!!!!

 

But that doesn't mean you'll have 50.

Edited January 19, 2015 by oldshirt

[beach]

You're assumption that people who have experienced infidelity didn't have clear boundaries and didn't indicate it would end the marriage is flawed. The all said the exact same words and thought the exact same thing up until the morning that it happened.

 

This is flawed - due to you saying that the BS was cheated on and yet had a boundary.

 

They may have had a boundary but they weren't willing to enforce said boundary - lack of action.

 

What use is the boundary if it's not a guide to live by?

 

Moving a boundary because of bad behavior isn't healthy and doesn't bring about happiness.

 

My boundary is for me. If it's crossed - that's it.

 

So many posters here just move their boundary time and again. Movement to adjust to lower standards.

[No Limit]

See, you care about your wife. Have been for almost 5 decades, half of a lifetime. And you'd never willingly lay your family in the devil's hands so he can decide whether he'll let you keep them or tear them down.

 

 

The closest to a cheater mindset I've ever come is attempting to make myself feel like "whatever" thinking about family and people who trust me completely. Turned my stomach and other, brighter pursuits entered my mind soon after. I couldn't sleep knowing I hurt so many people because of "uh you know it just happened".

[badkarma2013]

I've asked this same question many times and have never gotten a clear answer. And maybe there is no clear or understandable answer - especially to those of us who have been betrayed, or to those who have never had an affair.

 

There's a lot of talk about a slippery slope - where an innocent friendship starts up, but over time those involved become increasingly attached to each other. All that I can understand because it happened to me.

 

But there is a point where the relationship takes a BIG step. You've been sliding down that slippery slope and suddenly you realize you are about to plunge off a cliff. For me, I call this the "get naked moment". And it is in that moment that I cannot imagine how anyone can leap from that cliff.. wouldn't a person's inner voice be screaming, warning lights flashing... all that. And yet they go ahead, get naked and consummate their relationship - and there isn't any going back from that.

 

To quote my WW: "I cried all the way home after the first time we did it, and I swore to myself that it would never happen again, that I'd never do that again. But it did."

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

My WW was almost prudish for 22 years..she wanted to go back to work ...( I made stupid money she didnt need to go) but i said do what makes you happy...Her Boss/OM became a topic of conversation 24/7...i knew something then...she was promoted and started traveling with him...red flag.. the after a number of months i got my hands on her phone...(that was it)...text. pics, everything....

 

Later when the OM gave me pics of her...(She did things she never did with me...PORNSTAR stuff)...he did this after i outed him to his BW...

 

As Shirley Glass (noted infidelity author said)..It is an long road to the first Kiss...But sex follows shortly there after...

 

She passed hundreds of red flags ...but she did it anyway..and kept on doing it until she was caught...

 

As a result total devastation of 2 Families...

[Confused48]

To the OP, it is easy to post here about what you would do in a hypothetical situation. Very easy.

 

However, if you go to the OW/OM side, you will read countless stories from people who thought they WOULD NEVER become a cheater. Who are truly disgusted with what they have done.

 

If you stay here on this side you will read countless stories of people who said before Dday, one slip, one step over the line by their spouse would earn that spouse a divorce. People who are surprised that they did not follow through with that.

 

No one should try to predict how they would react to this kind of thing in the abstract. It make one look pompous and better than thou.

 

To just say how you think you would reacted, how you hope you would react, that is going far enough. To say you know, that goes to far in the abstract world, IMHO. I hope you are not ever tested either way, IRL.

[beach]

To the OP, it is easy to post here about what you would do in a hypothetical situation. Very easy.

 

However, if you go to the OW/OM side, you will read countless stories from people who thought they WOULD NEVER become a cheater. Who are truly disgusted with what they have done.

 

If you stay here on this side you will read countless stories of people who said before Dday, one slip, one step over the line by their spouse would earn that spouse a divorce. People who are surprised that they did not follow through with that.

 

No one should try to predict how they would react to this kind of thing in the abstract. It make one look pompous and better than thou.

 

To just say how you think you would reacted, how you hope you would react, that is going far enough. To say you know, that goes to far in the abstract world, IMHO. I hope you are not ever tested either way, IRL.

 

Not everyone waivers.

 

Some know what they do and don't deserve. Some have solid, healthy boundaries.

 

The OP stated his - no need to challenge his strength.

 

I think it's encouraging to read a thread with clarity and honor here, it's refreshing.

[Confused48]

Not everyone waivers.

 

Some know what they do and don't deserve. Some have solid, healthy boundaries.

 

The OP stated his - no need to challenge his strength.

 

I think it's encouraging to read a thread with clarity and honor here, it's refreshing.

 

Where did I say no one hold to what they think they will? I'm many do. Beach, we all know you are prefect and flawless and have executed an unwavering demonstration of your values on Dday.

 

The OP is just speculating, nothing more. It is prideful and unseemly speculation at that.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Confused48

[Saltine]

I'm not speculating. I know myself. I know my wife.

[Confused48]

I'm not speculating. I know myself. I know my wife.

 

Pride comes before a fall. I hope this is not true for you.

[No Limit]

You'd be surprised how many suddenly become 'soft' regarding what they once called their point of no return. On the other hand, most people probably don't even think it possible. Makes the surprise all the bigger.

[Saltine]

Infidelity goes on everywhere, at all levels of society, among all races and religions, at all ages. I've seen it happen to coworkers, friends and acquaintences, and even in my own family. It's everywhere, yet the cases posted on forums like these are only a tiny fraction of the total. A man or woman who finds out about infidelity and decisively ends the relationship with their wayward SO, usually does not come to these forums to write about it. They do what they said they would do. Good bye cheater. Move on. It has got to be hard, and soul crushing, but for them there is no other choice.

 

I cannot imagine myself coming to this forum and writing about how crushed I am because my wife wont give up her cheating partner. She wouldn't have to on my account. She would be free do do whatever she wants at that point, as she would cease to be part of my life.

[beach]

Where did I say no one hold to what they think they will? I'm many do. Beach, we all know you are prefect and flawless and have executed an unwavering demonstration of your values on Dday.

 

The OP is just speculating, nothing more. It is prideful and unseemly speculation at that.

 

This is completely uncalled for. Attacking my strength isn't necessary or nice.

 

The OP wasn't speculating either. He's stated his boundary. It's useful to know what that looks like - helps if it's ever crossed.

Edited January 20, 2015 by beach

[Confused48]

This is completely uncalled for. Attacking my strength isn't necessary or nice.

 

The OP wasn't speculating either. He's stated his boundary. It's useful to know what that looks like - helps if it's ever crossed.

 

Attacking you for your strength? Hating your for your great beauty too? Please....

 

It is useful to see a person state a worthy, if theoretical, boundary. It is funny to see them try to predict the future. Why is he here if he has no fear of infidelity? Perhaps to incite an argument? Or perhaps it is subconscious fear.

[beach]

Attacking you for your strength? Hating your for your great beauty too? Please....

 

It is useful to see a person state a worthy, if theoretical, boundary. It is funny to see them try to predict the future. Why is he here if he has no fear of infidelity? Perhaps to incite an argument? Or perhaps it is subconscious fear.

 

No reason to assume there's an agenda in his posts.

 

Evidence of fidelity is a breathe of fresh air in these forums.

 

Wish there was more of it here.

[Confused48]

No reason to assume there's an agenda in his posts.

 

Wrong. And dangerously so.

 

Evidence of fidelity is a breathe of fresh air in these forums.

 

Agree.

 

 

Wish there was more of it here.

 

Agree.

[TrustedthenBusted]

... both of us know without a single doubt that infidelity by either of us would put an end to our beautiful marriage. There would be no tearful appologies, no atonement of any kind, marriage would be over. I could not bear to bring that kind of pain to my wife, and I know she feels the same.

 

no disrespect... but everyone thinks this.

 

And then it happens.

 

And then nothing goes the way you think it will.

 

And then all hell breaks loose.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I'm not speculating. I know myself. I know my wife.

 

 

 

 

Everyone thinks this too.

[fellini]

One never knows if a boundary exists, if a boundary is solid, if a boundary is dependent, if a boundary is lazy...

 

No one knows if one day someone comes along and suddenly one forgets to keep their boundaries up, or lets it down just a little to experience something attractive.

 

"Boundary talk" is useful in terms of infidelity issues up to a point. We can talk about them, but I think what others are saying here, and elsewhere is that relying on a "border", especially one that is only defended by your own self interest, unlike in the past, for example when courtship was highly invigilated by "sponsors" to ensure no boundaries were crossed, is only one part of the story.

 

A boundary is a concept. Personal chemistry between two people that suddenly produces chemical changes in the brain that begin to allow us feel rekindled emotions of first love is not.

 

Personally, I think Shirley Glass was onto something when she talks about Walls and Windows. Allowing persons outside the wall to get a glimpse of your personal, emotional side is to put a window in the wall (call it a boundary if you like, but this is different to me). Once you open windows for others, it is difficult to close them. The "other" has seen you "half naked" and wants more, is equally enjoying the feeling that comes from being a voyeur in your life, killing the drab boring routines of daily work. And we are off to the races.

 

I also think that there exists an unexplored aspect of infidelity that can be honestly borrowed from Psychotherapy, the concept of "transference". Every therapist knows that one part of the TREATMENT of an individual is to get them through transference - "falling in love/emotionally connecting" with the therapist. It is a natural consequence of a client giving intimate details about their life and the willingness and readiness of the therapist to TAKE that and mirror it back. The therapist must ALSO BE CAREFUL not to mistake transference for TRUE emotions - and find themselves "in love" with the client. (Lots of movies where this happens!).

 

For me, I don't doubt for a second that part of what happens when two people who have known each other as "colleagues" start to see each other as "friends" and then as "confidants" - even if its not good marriage/bad marriage talk, could easily create this transference onto the growing EA.

 

One does not have to be down in the dumps, in a sh--ty marriage for this to happen. One only needs that these issues form together at the right moment with someone even just adequately attractive enough to want to sit with them for more than to talk shop.

[merrmeade]

To this day, I am still deeply in love with my wife, and I know she is still deeply in love with me too. I am firmly convinced that both spouses need to treat their relationship as though they are both still in the courtship phase, even after nearly a half century of marriage. We still kiss and hug frequently, we still cuddle in bed, we often tell each other I love you, we both still do caring things for each other, and we still engage in passionate sex. She is truly my soulmate, and I am hers.

Other married couples don't have this to protect by their boundaries. Love gives you deep empathy, and both of you share that. You could not do something that would hurt her that deeply because it would hurt you. That's love and the boundaries are default.

 

Thank you for describing your marriage. My parents had a marriage like that. I thought I would, too, by just sticking with it long enough. It takes two.

Edited January 20, 2015 by merrmeade