FitChick Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Moderation note: Due to references to commercial entities and lack of other substantive topical content, we'll leave the discussion title open to discussion, so are soliciting views regarding why honesty ruins relationships. Edited January 19, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Remove commercial content
Xiang Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I'm not gonna listen to that whole 1 hour thingy. But if the title means anything. By god i don't wanna live in this world, where honesty is such a shattering thing xD. I'm so honest, means i'm scruwed. 1
StalwartMind Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah no, honesty is one of the most valuable traits a person can have and yet so many lack it. It seems like an incredible waste of effort to micro manage a web of lies and layers of being fake to others. I'll take brutal honesty any day, no matter how hurtful "others" may feel or think it'll be. I didn't listen to the show either, I'm sure there are some good points, but if a relationship/friendship can't handle honesty, it's foundation is probably based on pretty shaky grounds anyway. 4
Snaggletooth Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I'm for honesty. Wouldn't want a relationship were I couldn't be. Wouldn't want a relationship where it wasn't returned. Honesty means more than just the words you speak, it means looking at yourself and knowing you can live up to your actions before you take them. Honesty is all the way or don't even start. Honesty can hurt, honesty can cost, honesty can sit you alone in the cold, honesty can walk you through fire. Lies do more damage, though. Lies neither respect nor love, not themselves nor others. When honest, you are never lost. 4
eye of the storm Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Being honest means I can relax and be me. Being honest means I know the other person wants to be with the real me. Being honest means I can trust them. If I have to create a web of lies to get someone to like me, then I need to spend some time alone and work on why I'm such a crappy person that nobody wants me. 2
eye of the storm Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I spent 18 years married to a man I couldn't be honest with. I now only know one way. When I am happy about something I say it, when I am upset about something I say it. How can my partner work with me to fix an issue if they don't know about it? How can my partner know when he makes me over the moon if they don't know about it? And I do the exact same thing with my friends.
Shepp Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I'll take brutal honesty any day, no matter how hurtful "others" may feel or think it'll be. I didn't listen to the show either ^ This! Complete honesty is brutal honesty to be frank, there's not much between them, and brutal honest is an acquired taste! Not for those of a weak disposition! My wife has always been a straight shooter, says it like it is, and these folk who didn't like her because of that, but I love her for that! I think its admiral! I can't be as honest as she is too the world - my mum drilled in my manners to hard. But she's the one person I can be totally honest with, that's special - and that ruins nothing! That makes us stronger! 1
xxoo Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I believe in being honest. But I also believe not every thought that enters my head needs to be voiced. 7
CastlesInTheSky Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I think some people don't know the difference being blunt, honest, and being harsh. You don't have to voice everything that comes out of your head, but you don't have to withhold important information for the sake of sparing someone's feeling. In a society that thrives on conformity, honesty is slowly becoming a dying trait because being honesty isn't going to move you up the corporate, social, or financial ladder most of the time. However, it is still a valuable asset. But the problem with the lack of honesty in relationships is that all of a sudden, we find ourselves in an unintentional gender "war" where love is replaced by a competitive spurred on by fluctuations of attraction. In short, people lie so that they don't get dumped, cheated on, or less respected. They also do it to spare someone's feeling when they are not interested, because it's better than no conflict results to protect themselves than someone else. Ah, gotta love the selfish generation. 3
Absinthe Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Honesty is not the problem. It's just that some people think that if they're honest about being a douche, then it's a-OK if they're a douche. I've had some people I've been involved with come out with some shockers and then try to hide behind the whole "I'm just being honest!" excuse. An honest douche = still a douche.
autumnnight Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I believe in being honest. But I also believe not every thought that enters my head needs to be voiced. THIS A person who is a tactless jerk who hides behind the "I'm just honest" smokescreen is almost as bad as a liar. Notice I said almost. There are times when shutting up is the wisest thing you can do. For example, your coworker gets a hideous haircut. If they don't ASK you what you think, you aren't being honest if you tell them how awful they look - you're being an arse. And if they do ask, you can always say, "It's not my preference, but all that matters is if you are happy with it." Part of emotional intelligence is knowing HOW to be honest. 7
M_Theory Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) How many of you would be honest in this situation..... You're having a conversation with a woman you just met. You told her you got divorced a few years ago. She asks "have you dated since then?"..... What do you say? Honest answer- No I havent, I've tried dating sites, and gone out to some bars but havent met anyone. Lying answer- Yea, I've had a few dates here and there, but none of them had that spark I'm looking for. The lie definitely sounds better, and appeals to the woman, letting her know that other women found attractive or had an interest in you.....and the honest answer sounds unappealing. Most people make these sort of choices in how they word things multiple times a day...and they see them as little white lies that dont hurt anyone. But because our society is filled to the brim with so much bullsh*t, exaggeration, and embellishment from so many people, that when a person does give an honest answer, they are typically looked down upon, as a weak individual, or often laughed at for saying such things. Edited January 19, 2015 by M_Theory
WomenWubber Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 I lie all the time. That's about as honest as I can get. Honest.
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Like all things it is not black and white. If you are wise you need to negotiate the benefits of being honest to that person...as it may destroy them. Now I don't mind being honest on LS about things people wouldn't believe even if we're true and you could prove it...but once you have a personal relationship with someone, you need to take into consideration their feelings and mental state...it would be like a therapist calling you crazy, there is different ways of saying things because you couldn't just be blunt.
Ethan78 Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 How many of you would be honest in this situation..... You're having a conversation with a woman you just met. You told her you got divorced a few years ago. She asks "have you dated since then?"..... What do you say? Honest answer- No I havent, I've tried dating sites, and gone out to some bars but havent met anyone. Lying answer- Yea, I've had a few dates here and there, but none of them had that spark I'm looking for. The lie definitely sounds better, and appeals to the woman, letting her know that other women found attractive or had an interest in you.....and the honest answer sounds unappealing. This sounds like one of those areas where women will tell you to be honest, but would withhold their own dating history on the basis that it is their "private life". A thread came up the other day on loveshack about telling women at work that you are single as a guy. A few people said, "Oh women who ask that are just being friendly and trying to introduce you to their friends". However, there is another reason women ask, and that is to gauge how attractive you are to other women. A guy who has been single for years just does not compare in attractiveness to one with a ring on his finger. Harsh, but true for many women. I don't think anyone can demand to know about your past life. I find people who have been cheated on are the ones who want a complete resume from a potential partner. This can't be right. If we are allowed to change as human beings why should we have to carry round the burden of what has happened in the past. Past relationships or the lack of them are not a criminal record are they?
Snaggletooth Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 How many of you would be honest in this situation..... You're having a conversation with a woman you just met. You told her you got divorced a few years ago. She asks "have you dated since then?"..... What do you say? Honest answer- No I havent, I've tried dating sites, and gone out to some bars but havent met anyone. Lying answer- Yea, I've had a few dates here and there, but none of them had that spark I'm looking for. The lie definitely sounds better, and appeals to the woman, letting her know that other women found attractive or had an interest in you.....and the honest answer sounds unappealing. Most people make these sort of choices in how they word things multiple times a day...and they see them as little white lies that dont hurt anyone. But because our society is filled to the brim with so much bullsh*t, exaggeration, and embellishment from so many people, that when a person does give an honest answer, they are typically looked down upon, as a weak individual, or often laughed at for saying such things. I would still give the honest answer for me, I tried some dating in the early years, hated it, found it all too contrived and fake and since decided to live life, for me, without making an effort to actually look for anyone. So much so, that when I finally did meet someone I liked I was in no honest position to do anything about it, and so I honestly told her that rather than start something under any form of pretence or ignored reality that would waste her time and later hurt her. Some may think it weak but I disagree, weak is to play games with other peoples lives by not being honest, with both them and especially yourself.
littleblackheart Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 But because our society is filled to the brim with so much bullsh*t, exaggeration, and embellishment from so many people, that when a person does give an honest answer, they are typically looked down upon, as a weak individual, or often laughed at for saying such things. That's not typical at all, M_Theory. When a person gives an honest answer, they'll be looked up as responsible, caring, genuine and respectful of others' feelings. If the connection is real and mutual, not much will stand in its way - that's not going to happen by date 2, though. Society is you and I, my friend - be honest with people, you'll get honest (and respect, and understanding, and time and a whole lot more) back.
M_Theory Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 I would still give the honest answer for me, I tried some dating in the early years, hated it, found it all too contrived and fake and since decided to live life, for me, without making an effort to actually look for anyone. So much so, that when I finally did meet someone I liked I was in no honest position to do anything about it, and so I honestly told her that rather than start something under any form of pretence or ignored reality that would waste her time and later hurt her. Some may think it weak but I disagree, weak is to play games with other peoples lives by not being honest, with both them and especially yourself. I'm always honest as well. I could give a sh*t less if my answers scare a woman off. I'm not like most guys that try to be a chameleon with the woman they are with. In my experience with the few women I have dated recently, you can tell they are not used to a guy being straight up, and honest with them. They actually dont know how to interact that way, due to years of playing games and dealing with bs.
MJJean Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 A thread came up the other day on loveshack about telling women at work that you are single as a guy. A few people said, "Oh women who ask that are just being friendly and trying to introduce you to their friends". However, there is another reason women ask, and that is to gauge how attractive you are to other women. A guy who has been single for years just does not compare in attractiveness to one with a ring on his finger. Harsh, but true for many women. I don't think anyone can demand to know about your past life. I find people who have been cheated on are the ones who want a complete resume from a potential partner. This can't be right. If we are allowed to change as human beings why should we have to carry round the burden of what has happened in the past. Past relationships or the lack of them are not a criminal record are they? I don't give a fig if other women find a guy attractive. If I find him attractive that's all that matters. In fact, a whole boatload of women finding Bob attractive makes Bob less attractive to me. If Bob is that universally appealing I have to wonder how honest he is, lol. I'm always honest as well. I could give a sh*t less if my answers scare a woman off. I'm not like most guys that try to be a chameleon with the woman they are with. In my experience with the few women I have dated recently, you can tell they are not used to a guy being straight up, and honest with them. They actually dont know how to interact that way, due to years of playing games and dealing with bs. Truth! First, my husbands almost brutal honesty was one of the reasons I wanted to keep him. I loved talking to a man who was straight up and I find conversation with him to be fun, lively, and interesting precisely because he is so honest. His honesty is why I trust him and why I feel so strongly bonded to him. Definitely a plus. And, yes, due to years of game playing and manipulation in the "normal" dating scene I had a hard time making things work for a while. I'd want/need something from him but didn't know how to express that without all the usual male-female game playing and manipulation. I'd do things for a reaction because that was what worked since puberty. Female does X ,male reacts with Y. When he figured out what I was doing he said "You know you could have just asked for what you need, right?" I about fell over. What a concept! Just tell your mate what you need without game playing or trying to manipulate him into doing it. Woah! 1
Haydn Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 THIS A person who is a tactless jerk who hides behind the "I'm just honest" smokescreen is almost as bad as a liar. Notice I said almost. There are times when shutting up is the wisest thing you can do. For example, your coworker gets a hideous haircut. If they don't ASK you what you think, you aren't being honest if you tell them how awful they look - you're being an arse. And if they do ask, you can always say, "It's not my preference, but all that matters is if you are happy with it." Part of emotional intelligence is knowing HOW to be honest. True. But if you say that, it`s that same as saying it`s .... I always say to mates, (`So your going to wear that shirt?) They know what i think. `I`m giving them the option to look .... or change the shirt.
writergal Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Listen, if honesty ruins the relationship then you have to ask yourself, "was this a healthy relationship to begin with?" If you can't be 100% honest with your romantic partner (or your friends or family), then you're not in a good relationship. And the use of tact is misunderstood. You only use tact in a social situation if YOU are the one with the problem, not the person you use the tact with. For example, if I ask a friend "Do you like this hairstyle on me?" and they respond with tact, "It's not your best, or your worst" that doesn't really help me know what they really think. I don't ask someone what they think, if I don't want to know. If the person isn't going to tell me the truth and gaslights me instead, well, that's on them and is their problem, not mine. I expect honesty from everyone and unfortunately I can't make them be honest with me. I'm a very direct person and everyone who knows me, has accepted that about me. If you don't like that trait about me, speak up or say nothing. I think dishonesty and lying is what ruins relationship -- not honesty. Honesty is the glue of what holds relationships together. I'd rather have 100% truth and honesty than tact. Give me bluntness or give me ice cream (because if you lie to me, you owe me a pint of Edy's chocolate ice cream).
Darren2013 Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 There's a difference between being honest vs. volunteering information that would not benefit the other person to know. I also think some people use being honest as an excuse to be rude and inconsiderate of the feelings of others. There's being honest and then there's also being honest for the wrong reasons. I want my girlfriend to be honest with me but that doesn't mean I want to know certain things. For example I don't want to know about her past as far as details about the guys she slept with. There's no benefit to me knowing that information. I would rather be kept ignorant of that because whatever happened in the past is in the past and should stay in the past. I don't know how many guys she slept with and I don't want to know and I don't care.
xxoo Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 True. But if you say that, it`s that same as saying it`s .... I always say to mates, (`So your going to wear that shirt?) They know what i think. `I`m giving them the option to look .... or change the shirt. But is it opinion/personal preference? Or is it immutable fact? I can think my teen's outfit looks like ......... She can still like it and feel good about it. If she asks me if I like it, a statement like, "it's not my preference but all that matters is that you like it" is perfectly honest. She's got this thing about women wearing jeans with sneakers, and will tell me (quite honestly) that I look ridiculous (to her) when I wear that. She's wrong! 1
salparadise Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 How can so many people be so naive? Those who claim to never lie are lying to themselves... delusional. If there were a person who never told a lie they would be viewed as a social freak for not caring what anyone else thinks about them, or how anyone else feels. Everybody lies. It's just a matter of how often and for what reasons. There are self-serving lies and other-oriented lies. Perhaps people who claim to never lie feel justified in not counting lies that they consider justifiable? Here's the research. Fair warning... those who never lie won't like it.
xxoo Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 How can so many people be so naive? Those who claim to never lie are lying to themselves... delusional. If there were a person who never told a lie they would be viewed as a social freak for not caring what anyone else thinks about them, or how anyone else feels. Everybody lies. It's just a matter of how often and for what reasons. There are self-serving lies and other-oriented lies. Perhaps people who claim to never lie feel justified in not counting lies that they consider justifiable? Here's the research. Fair warning... those who never lie won't like it. This thread is about lies in a relationship. Trust and honesty are far more important to me in my romantic relationship than, for example, with my coworkers. I really don't care if they lie to me about having plans so they can't make my party. I would care very much if my partner lied about something so trivial, and it would breed mistrust and bigger problems. 1
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