HarryG Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 So my ex and I broke up 5 weeks ago. Her choice not mine. She's always been impulsive and has even up and left before, but returned after a week. Anyway, a mutual friend of ours was emailing back and forth with her and my ex said something that we thought was interesting. I'm interested in the communities thoughts. She said "Harry said that he had you and Steve over the other night and you both said that I should think about coming back, and everything would be ok, but I didn't know if that was true or not." To me that one comment speaks volumes to me. I'd like any input you may have. I"ll then explain what I think she is saying.
Ducktape Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 It means you're reading too much into it and you'll drive yourself crazy. People don't need to be told that they should think about coming back for them to do so. It comes naturally when that's what they truly want.
Halcyon Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 It means nothing, you are reading into it too much. 2nd hand information is not worth speculating on. Only from the horses mouth is of any importance even then it's usually of no meaning.
Light Breeze Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Don't over analyze things, you'll lose your mind. That's the danger in staying in contact with your ex, you nitpick every nook and cranny of every word she utters. Focus on healing and moving on instead.
Downtown Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 All her life she has had trouble with communication. It stems from her brothers and a step father doing things that they should not have been doing to a sister or daughter. She went to tell her mom who responded with "don't say things like that. its not nice." [Your 12/16 post.]Harry, did this abuse involve sexual abuse in childhood? Was she abandoned or abused in some way before age five? How old is she now? I ask because your two threads seem to be describing immature behavior, emotional instability, and a lack of impulse control -- traits which typically arise from an invalidating environment in early childhood.
Author HarryG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 Harry, did this abuse involve sexual abuse in childhood? Was she abandoned or abused in some way before age five? How old is she now? I ask because your two threads seem to be describing immature behavior, emotional instability, and a lack of impulse control -- traits which typically arise from an invalidating environment in early childhood. It was sexual in nature. She was not physically abandoned, but I'm sure she felt emotionally alone. There was no support system there for her obviously. She is now 24 soon to be 25. For the other responders. Thank you for replying. I am aware that we can all tend to over analyze things and drive ourselves nuts. That's not what I asked. I saw the message myself so to put to rest the 3rd party hearsay, I did see it from the horses mouth. What she is essentially saying is "I have thought about coming back, BUT I don't want all of our mutual friends to be mad at me and treat me differently." That is what she is really saying. Is it right? Do I really want to be with a person that cares so much about what friends think and not as much about what I think? Yes yes I have already asked those questions of myself. I'm not holding out for her. I'm not sitting around wallowing in self pity and loathing. I've moved on with my life and, while the pain occasionally rears it's ugly head, I deal with it and move on.
Halcyon Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 What I meant is unless she is talking directly to you don't read into it. Even if she was talking directly to you don't read into it. You will drive yourself nuts.
Ducktape Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 For the other responders. Thank you for replying. I am aware that we can all tend to over analyze things and drive ourselves nuts. That's not what I asked. I saw the message myself so to put to rest the 3rd party hearsay, I did see it from the horses mouth. That's not what he meant when he said hearing it from a third party. That's something your ex said to a friend. Even if you read it yourself, it's not something she said to YOU. You even make a point that she's someone who would be afraid of your mutual friends' opinion. People say all kind of things that you shouldn't believe when they tell YOU, so imagine when they are saying it to a friend of yours. What she is essentially saying is "I have thought about coming back, BUT I don't want all of our mutual friends to be mad at me and treat me differently." That is what she is really saying. Is it right? I have absolutely NO IDEA how you came up with that theory from that one sentence you quoted above. I just don't see the link between the quote, and your interpretation.
Author HarryG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 I have absolutely NO IDEA how you came up with that theory from that one sentence you quoted above. I just don't see the link between the quote, and your interpretation. And therein lies the problem with these forums. I understand that it's a great place for people to come together and share their thoughts, but the underlying issue is that no one here knows this girl like I do. I don't know a guy/girl in another post more than the poster. So although you may feel like you are giving great advice, neither you nor I have a clue what we are talking about to the poster. Every single bit of advice given in this forum or any other forum is at best a coin toss. A large majority of the people in these forums should spend more time recalling life experiences and a lot less time telling people what they should do. It would be a lot more helpful, and way more beneficial.
Ducktape Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 And therein lies the problem with these forums. I understand that it's a great place for people to come together and share their thoughts, but the underlying issue is that no one here knows this girl like I do. I don't know a guy/girl in another post more than the poster. So although you may feel like you are giving great advice, neither you nor I have a clue what we are talking about to the poster. Every single bit of advice given in this forum or any other forum is at best a coin toss. A large majority of the people in these forums should spend more time recalling life experiences and a lot less time telling people what they should do. It would be a lot more helpful, and way more beneficial. Very well, good luck to you then.
Halcyon Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Then why ask for advice then? I'll phrase it another way then. I see a incredibly benign message sent to a friend not you and that you are drawing a very long bow on some hidden meaning. All of us have done this at some point. I've had friends show be messages from ex's in the past and later found out that she was saying different things to different friends so it was pointless speculating on the meaning because she wasn't talking to me. That's the only experience I had with that. It was a lot easier to move on when I told my friends I didn't want to see any messages any more. And you must remember you have given us a single line to work with no context or anything from the outside looking in it looks like it has no special meaning. Edited January 17, 2015 by Halcyon 1
lauri Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 So she's broke up with you a few times before and you've gotten back together within a week or so? I think here lies your first mistake - you've given her comfort that she will always have you there, regardless of her ending things. My intrepretation is she is snooping around to see where you stand with her (e.g. if you hate her / have moved on). This is normally an ego and comfort checkup. I'm going to assume you've been NC or been fairly distant, which has peaked her interest in what's happening. I notice she also made an emphasis that she's worried "people hare her", which leads to what I'm saying above. I think you cannot be so easy in returning into such a volitile relationship. She has to realize a relationship isn't a yo-yo and you can't go back in forth.... But just as a warning, from personal experience and reading on here for a looong time, your situation isn't that unique. The fact she is going back and forth with you means she doubt's things and probably isn't that into you. You could take her back if she comes, but I'd be very cautious and would advice against it. I'd always have the back of my mind that she would jump ship if she met someone she considered an "upgrade" tomorrow and would cut you off within a heartbeat (until things go sour there too). 1
Downtown Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 All her life she has had trouble with communication. If so, you two likely could have greatly improved your communication skills by seeing a MC. The MCs are trained to teach those very skills to couples. Yet, given your description of her behaviors -- immaturity, walking away twice without a word, and a lack of impulse control -- there is a good chance her issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. In any event, I agree with Halcyon that it likely is unproductive to try to tease important information out of that question she posed to one of your friends. Certainly, none of us on this forum has sufficient information to do so. She was forced to deal with the humiliation and ongoing inappropriate behavior as a child. From that point on I believe, and she has confirmed, that she has a hard time telling people how she feels because she doesn't think they will find it to be important.You are describing a woman who grew up in an invalidating environment where her thoughts were considered unimportant -- and where her feelings were rejected (by her mother and step father) as not being valid. When a child grows up in such an environment, she is at great risk of being unable to trust other people due to a powerful core feeling that others are ignoring her feelings and not valuing her opinion -- even when that is NOT true. If this is the case with your exGF, going to a MC likely would have been a total waste of time. What would be needed, instead, is IC with a psychologist who can teach her the emotional skills she is lacking. It was sexual in nature. She was not physically abandoned, but I'm sure she felt emotionally alone.Many sexually abused children are so traumatized that, in order to survive the ordeal, they keep a death-grip on the ego defenses available to young children. They hold on so tightly to those primitive defenses that they never move on to develop the more mature ways of protecting their egos. If this happened to your exGF, her issues are far more serious than a simple lack of communication skills. I therefore suggest that, if she ever returns and you decide to take her back, you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. Doing so may save you from a lifetime of pain in a toxic relationship. 1
Author HarryG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 If so, you two likely could have greatly improved your communication skills by seeing a MC. The MCs are trained to teach those very skills to couples. Yet, given your description of her behaviors -- immaturity, walking away twice without a word, and a lack of impulse control -- there is a good chance her issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. In any event, I agree with Halcyon that it likely is unproductive to try to tease important information out of that question she posed to one of your friends. Certainly, none of us on this forum has sufficient information to do so. You are describing a woman who grew up in an invalidating environment where her thoughts were considered unimportant -- and where her feelings were rejected (by her mother and step father) as not being valid. When a child grows up in such an environment, she is at great risk of being unable to trust other people due to a powerful core feeling that others are ignoring her feelings and not valuing her opinion -- even when that is NOT true. If this is the case with your exGF, going to a MC likely would have been a total waste of time. What would be needed, instead, is IC with a psychologist who can teach her the emotional skills she is lacking. Many sexually abused children are so traumatized that, in order to survive the ordeal, they keep a death-grip on the ego defenses available to young children. They hold on so tightly to those primitive defenses that they never move on to develop the more mature ways of protecting their egos. If this happened to your exGF, her issues are far more serious than a simple lack of communication skills. I therefore suggest that, if she ever returns and you decide to take her back, you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. Doing so may save you from a lifetime of pain in a toxic relationship. Great reply and it mirrors many of the same thoughts I have had over the years we have been together. Communication was a struggle from the very beginning. It's not something that just recently showed up, like a SO deciding to begin distancing themselves just before a breakup. She has remained the same since day one. The night before she left we were having a conversation about these things and how it would be helpful for us to go and speak with a professional in order to try to get to the bottom of what's really going on, and to help her with the things she had dealt with as a child. She was extremely receptive to the idea and it was something we decided to move forward with that night. She broke down that night, in a way that I had never seen her do. She was more vulnerable then I had ever seen her almost to the point of being inconsolable. One of the final things she said to me before we went to bed (little did I know that these would be the last words I ever hear from her) was "I don't care what it takes or how long it takes me, But I will prove to you that you are the man I love and the man I want to be with." The next morning - - she was gone.
Downtown Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Communication was a struggle from the very beginning. It's not something that just recently showed up, like a SO deciding to begin distancing themselves just before a breakup.You may be describing a strong fear of abandonment combined with a strong need for frequent validation. If she also has a strong fear of engulfment (a feeling of being suffocated and controlled by your strong personality), she might be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I therefore suggest you take a look at 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most signs sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you look at my more detailed description of these red flags at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that discussion rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Of course, Harry, neither you nor anyone else on this forum is capable of diagnosing BPD or any other PD. Only professionals can do that. Indeed, that's why I suggested you see a psychologist if you ever take her back. You are capable, however, of learning how to spot the warning signs for a PD -- in the same way you are capable of learning how to spot the warning signs for a heart attack or stroke without being able to diagnose them.
Author HarryG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 18 BPD Warning Signs. Downtown I took a look at these and while some of them were really not descriptive of her, a few were. 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;" It wasn't you always or you never, but more of her saying "I always screw this up", or "I can't ever get it right." 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well; I actually know her ex bf. The guy really was a bad person. Regardless it's still a sign. She only ever talked about him in the very beginning of our relationship. Never spoke of him after we became an item. 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months; Before me she never worked and sat at home all day. Once she was with me I helped her get back on her feet. Helped her find work, save for a car, begin her life. She didn't ask me to do those things. I did them because I have an uncontrollable urge to want to help a woman in need. Don't get me wrong. She appreciated it. Not sure that counts as a sign. 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away) This one is her. The girl seemed to never have any consistent friends. They come and go. 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence. I have been in a BP relationship before and it was obvious. I agree that my current ex is displaying some signs of BP, but in my opinion I don't think she is. If she is, it is a very mild case, but regardless BP indeed. Because of her past I knew I was in for a hard go at things, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm a sucker for wanting to help. She's highly impulsive. Will take advice from whomever she believes is there to help her through it. Will not reach out to me because she is concerned that our mutual friends will not be accepting of her should she return. I am at the point where I am not concerned about getting her back. That is not my end game. My end game is to understand. For me understanding brings closure - and closure is important to my healing and proceeding with my life.
Downtown Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 She's highly impulsive. Will take advice from whomever she believes is there to help her through it. Will not reach out to me because she is concerned that our mutual friends will not be accepting of her should she return.Harry, you are not describing a strong pattern of BPD (Borderline PD) traits. Nor are you describing BP (bipolar) traits. I therefore suggest you take a look at Dependent personality disorder and Avoidant personality disorder to see if they sound familiar. My end game is to understand. For me understanding brings closure - and closure is important to my healing and proceeding with my life.You keep mentioning her inability to communicate and the numerous disagreements. Exactly what were those disagreements like? Was it usually her criticizing her own behaviors or your behaviors? I ask because you seem to suggest she always was highly critical of herself but not you. If so, she seems to have doubted her ability to handle the relationship even though she didn't consider you to be doing anything wrong. 2
Author HarryG Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 I think those two are much better fits for her. She was/is VERY dependent on other people to help her move through life. To a lesser extend the APD you linked fits her as well. It is interesting though that the DPD didn't conflict with her wanting to leave while I was at work. To be fair I am 99.99% sure she is living with a girl she works with which fits with continued DPD. I have a daughter who is 14 and was very close with her. They have remained friends on FB. My daughter mentioned it last night. There was a time a few weeks ago where I would have happily taken her back and started this whole process over again, but as I mentioned, I am passed that point now. The confusion of everything she said is what lingers in my mind and keeps me up at night. 2 weeks before she left me she made an unusual comment to me while we were watching tv. It was "You are the guy that I would always run back to." It was a red flag to me. She doesn't normally say things like that, but in hindsight I see now that it was a precursor to her leaving. In my line of work I have developed a heighten ability to asses what someone is saying, and what their actions really mean. In this case, this girl meant what she was saying to me the night before she left when she said "I don't care what I have to do to prove to you that you are the man I love and the one I want to be with." I have no doubt, but her actions were that of someone who felt like they messed up so badly that nothing would ever be the same. Unfortunately for her, her impulsiveness deceived her and she made the wrong choice. I said weeks ago that a time would come where she would realize that she has made the wrong decision. Whether or not she had the confidence to reach out and try to correct what shes done, that's another story. 1
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