Making a guy wait

January 16, 2015

I've been seeing this girl since mid November. We both have very busy schedules but have still managed to go on about 8 dates. That's not an incredibly high number, I know, but we've certainly learned a great deal about one another. There seems to be mutual physical attraction, she does a lot of kissing, touching, hand-holding etc. But there seems to be a real aversion to sex on her part. She's been over to my place at this point, and we start to make out, things progress, and all of a sudden she's able to just pull away as easy as one would flick off a light switch.

This must be an almost absurdly cliche, to the point of self-parody, but what is the waiting game really all about? I would love to get some women to weigh in on this. I have come up with a few possibilities. The first, she's not all that attracted to me and her hesitation at this point is indicative of this lukewarm attraction. I hope this isn't the case, but am acutely aware that it could be.

The second possibility is that she's making me "earn it" which I've always found bizarre and almost insulting. I'm not the guy who pushes sex, much less requests it, so whenever I'm told (unsolicited) that I'm going to have to work to have the honor of intercourse I wince. There have been plenty of times that I wasn't sure I wanted to have sex with someone off the bat. I think it's immature to frame it in this manner--it should be an experience that two mutually attracted and respectful individuals share, not a point-based reward system.

The third possibility is that bad experiences in her past have convinced her that this is the best way to proceed when looking for a long-term, monogamous relationship. I haven't been on a date with anyone since we started talking, but I can tell you that the sexlessness of this "thing" we're in is pushing me away. As an irreligious 27 year old living in a large urban center, I have never placed priority on "waiting" and she knows all of this about me. Nothing she has ever told me beyond a vague desire to "take it slow" would suggest that this is coming from a profound moral conviction. It feels like a game at this point.

I really like her but I'm thinking of just having an honest conversation with her about the importance I place on sex in the context of a relationship (if we are to have one) and my confusion about where all of this is going. Is there a way to do this and not come off as a totally reprehensible dog? And, again, what is this waiting game really all about?

January 16, 2015

Have you guys talked exclusivity yet? 'Cause she might be holding out for that. If she knows you're serious about her, I bet she'd be more prone to go all the way.

I bet that's possibility one, if I were to add it to your list. It seems silly to speculate though, when you could just go strait to the source.

January 16, 2015

Yes, best to ask her how she's feeling about things and if you haven't discussed exclusivity, that could be what's making her hold back.

January 16, 2015

I've been seeing this girl since mid November. We both have very busy schedules but have still managed to go on about 8 dates. That's not an incredibly high number, I know, but we've certainly learned a great deal about one another. There seems to be mutual physical attraction, she does a lot of kissing, touching, hand-holding etc. But there seems to be a real aversion to sex on her part. She's been over to my place at this point, and we start to make out, things progress, and all of a sudden she's able to just pull away as easy as one would flick off a light switch.

This must be an almost absurdly cliche, to the point of self-parody, but what is the waiting game really all about? I would love to get some women to weigh in on this. I have come up with a few possibilities. The first, she's not all that attracted to me and her hesitation at this point is indicative of this lukewarm attraction. I hope this isn't the case, but am acutely aware that it could be.

The second possibility is that she's making me "earn it" which I've always found bizarre and almost insulting. I'm not the guy who pushes sex, much less requests it, so whenever I'm told (unsolicited) that I'm going to have to work to have the honor of intercourse I wince. There have been plenty of times that I wasn't sure I wanted to have sex with someone off the bat. I think it's immature to frame it in this manner--it should be an experience that two mutually attracted and respectful individuals share, not a point-based reward system.

The third possibility is that bad experiences in her past have convinced her that this is the best way to proceed when looking for a long-term, monogamous relationship. I haven't been on a date with anyone since we started talking, but I can tell you that the sexlessness of this "thing" we're in is pushing me away. As an irreligious 27 year old living in a large urban center, I have never placed priority on "waiting" and she knows all of this about me. Nothing she has ever told me beyond a vague desire to "take it slow" would suggest that this is coming from a profound moral conviction. It feels like a game at this point.

I really like her but I'm thinking of just having an honest conversation with her about the importance I place on sex in the context of a relationship (if we are to have one) and my confusion about where all of this is going. Is there a way to do this and not come off as a totally reprehensible dog? And, again, what is this waiting game really all about?

I think you can place your bets on either your first and third scenarios.

I think if you've been seeing each other since November and it's moving this slow, that seems to be an indication of a lukewarm interest on one or both of your parts.

I wouldn't continue on like this if I were you much longer- after several months, you should know if it's something worth continuing. Sex is a very important part of a romantic relationship- of course that's just the icing on the cake.. but it's something that obviously should come naturally and easily once a foundation is established.

If you want to continue seeing her, you must confront it. Don't expect it to magically improve.

I would bring it up like 'I'm really attracted to you and I want to take it to the next level with you physically...' or something..

or don't talk, just do it. Maybe you need to be more aggressive. That always helps.

January 16, 2015

Well, in my defense, I did bring exclusivity up about two dates back. I told her that I'm really into her and don't really feel the need to see anyone else. She gave me a strange and highly opaque response of "I feel like we're headed towards that. I just don't want to rush anything." This is the exclusivity talk, not one about sex. I've been open-hearted with her, I think to a fault, and I keep getting met with what seem like unwarranted suspicions. She's a country girl living in the big city, and she's even said before that this factors into her reluctance. I think I represent the smooth talking urban lothario to her, which couldn't be more off base.

So she either genuinely doesn't trust me (trust issues that probably have little to do with anything I've said or done) or she's not really feeling me all that much. If either one of these is the case, there's not much I can do and maybe cutting my losses is, in fact, the only option.

Sex seems to be a big part of this because the lack of it is indicative of an impasse. I know I should go straight to "the source," but I am asking how to approach this in the most delicate manner possible?

January 17, 2015

She's a country girl living in the big city, and she's even said before that this factors into her reluctance. I think I represent the smooth talking urban lothario to her, which couldn't be more off base.

So she either genuinely doesn't trust me (trust issues that probably have little to do with anything I've said or done) or she's not really feeling me all that much. If either one of these is the case, there's not much I can do and maybe cutting my losses is, in fact, the only option.

Sex seems to be a big part of this because the lack of it is indicative of an impasse. I know I should go straight to "the source," but I am asking how to approach this in the most delicate manner possible?

You seem like a genuine and caring guy. But I've never heard of a country boy living in the big city who was reluctant to be sexually active!~!

You may just need to be patient right now- she did tell you she doesn't want to rush things. It's up to you how long you are willing to wait. I know everyone is different in their beliefs on waiting.. but if you're feeling it, you're feeling it. The fact that she's doing other physical things besides sex with you and stops it at that says to me that she's clearly not comfortable with sex for whatever reason that may be.

As a woman, I can say that there is a legitimate fear of pregnancy (duh)which has NOTHING to do with you living in a big city!! I'd take that out of your mind right away.

Just TELL her OR SHOW HER you would like to take it further in bed. Have protection. Go buy condoms. Ask her if there's anything you can do to make her feel more comfortable about it.

January 17, 2015

The phrase, "taking it slow" usually means keeping your options open.

Sorry buddy, seems that you are only an option to her.

January 17, 2015

In my opinion, it sounds like she does like you and wants to take it slow in all areas in an effort not to mess things up. She has no idea it's having the opposite effect. She has probably rushed into past relationships that ended up crashing and burning just a quickly as they began. She may have learned from her mistakes and is just trying not to repeat them.

Two months and 8 dates really doesn't seem that long. If you like her, give it a few more weeks. If you bring up the importance of sex now, she may think that's all you want and it can push her away.

January 17, 2015

Maybe she just doesnt want to have sex yet. o_o

Maybe she just feels differently about sex then you. Doesnt mean shes leading you on or anything ... Just ask her. No one here knows what shes thinking.

January 17, 2015

Well, in my defense, I did bring exclusivity up about two dates back. I told her that I'm really into her and don't really feel the need to see anyone else. She gave me a strange and highly opaque response of "I feel like we're headed towards that. I just don't want to rush anything."

It sounds to me as though she's not that into you. If she really liked you, I think she would have happily agreed with your suggestion to be exclusive. Six dates is plenty for a woman to know if she wants that with a guy.

January 17, 2015

It sounds to me as though she's not that into you. If she really liked you, I think she would have happily agreed with your suggestion to be exclusive. Six dates is plenty for a woman to know if she wants that with a guy.

I agree with this. There are heaps of possible reasons for why a woman might be waiting for sex, ranging from 'she's just not ready yet' to 'she's not that into you'. But her response to your suggestion of exclusivity after 8 dates pretty much narrows it down to the latter.

I mean, it's not like you're asking her to live with you or meet your family or any sort of major commitment - all 'exclusivity' means is that she can't date other men. If she is finding that to be a problem - well, props to her for being honest, but it does say a lot about her (lack of) feelings for you.

January 17, 2015

8 dates, about two months into dating.. and that is "taking it really slow" if she hasn't had sex with him yet. And most people agree that is about right and true?

See this is why so many women are so picky and guys on OLD are flailing.

I'd say 2-3 months in is about right for a more cautious woman. Longer than that and there must be some heavier anxiety or morality thing attached to it.

This means that OP's lady is probably getting pretty close, if they are already exclusive. I can certainly understand the natural biological frustration but the rampant sense of entitlement and then the whole bitter "she must just be making it earn it thing" is really.. creepy, honestly. Like damn dude maybe girl just wants to get gradually comfortable with you.

I mean I AM counting this correctly yes? Mid November... December... Mid January. Two months, right? and 8 dates. If that is waiting a long time, then would be 'normal'?

****ing on date 4 after a month of dating? Not that there is anything wrong with two people who feel comfortable with that. But if a woman needs a bit more time, that doesn't mean she's some evil sex overlord secretly laughing diabolically at you as you desperately crawl through the trenches of earning the right to touch her glorious vagina.

January 17, 2015

This means that OP's lady is probably getting pretty close, if they are already exclusive. I can certainly understand the natural biological frustration but the rampant sense of entitlement and then the whole bitter "she must just be making it earn it thing" is really.. creepy, honestly. Like damn dude maybe girl just wants to get gradually comfortable with you.

Here, here.

****ing on date 4 after a month of dating? Not that there is anything wrong with two people who feel comfortable with that. But if a woman needs a bit more time, that doesn't mean she's some evil sex overlord secretly laughing diabolically at you as you desperately crawl through the trenches of earning the right to touch her glorious vagina.

Lol, love it.

She said she wants to take things slowly. If you want to discuss it, just make sure its in a way that doesn't sound like you are pressuring her. My first thought was that its because you are not in an official relationship, but then, she didn't want to at that stage. Is she seeing others? If she is doing lots of kissing and touching, she is definitely attracted to you.

January 17, 2015

Awon, bitter much?

Maybe she is unsure if she wants to have sex with you and she is trying to figure that out. Maybe she's a virgen and doesn't know how to tell you. Maybe life experience with a bunch of pump and dump jerks has taught her the benefit of really getting to know someone well before you become intimate with them.

And eight dates isn't really all that many. I've waited longer. And I LOVE sex. But it has to feel right and my bodily autonomy isn't trumped by your blue balls. If you're truly not comfortable with the situation (I wouldn't be comfortable in a relationship with a guy who wanted to wait until marriage for instance) you can leave, and the decision is made. But as mentioned before, why not just ask her?

No reaon to go all Awon-style passive aggressive, she doesn't OWE you a damn thing. But being an adult, you can have an adult discussion and get to the bottom of it.

Good luck.

January 17, 2015

This means that OP's lady is probably getting pretty close, if they are already exclusive. I can certainly understand the natural biological frustration but the rampant sense of entitlement and then the whole bitter "she must just be making it earn it thing" is really.. creepy, honestly. Like damn dude maybe girl just wants to get gradually comfortable with you.

I agree with your post in general, but they aren't exclusive - because she brushed him off when he asked for exclusivity (at a different time).

I can't think of any reason a woman would not want exclusivity (not sex, just exclusivity) with a man she's been dating for 2 months unless she's wanting to play the field. ie. she's not that into him.

January 17, 2015

Compromise with a little hand action? I'm really trying to say that with a straight face lol. But most relationships progress emotionally and physically over time. If after 2-3 months it's still the same as date 2, then I'd bet there's something more happening behind the scenes. AKA non-exclusivity or trauma.

Either case, talk to her and try to come to a resolution that you two are comfortable with.

January 17, 2015

she doesn't OWE you a damn thing.

^ This.

.....

January 17, 2015

She is not that into you.

To be honest, with the sex thing - if she really wanted to wait, she wouldn't be going to your place, making out and then pushing you away. It's not that easy for girls to do if they are really strongly attracted to someone. When I have done that, it was always because of a lukewarm attraction but I thought he looked like a good guy on paper so I wanted to wait and see if I can get more attracted. The exclusivity talk just confirms that.

January 17, 2015

She is either a serious control freak or follows a set of rules like a sheep (which is about control again).

January 17, 2015

Look the situation for women in modern dating is such that the big stings come after the dating has started. I know many, many men have a much, much harder time getting dates going in the first place and face the sting of initial rejection way more often on average. Yall get sympathy from me in your side of that initial endeavor.

BUT the reason that women are so much more hesitant, as well as picky, is because in the modern dating scene, many, many women get pumped-and-dumped in one manner or another. And point blank yes, that stings in our chest a hell of a lot more than it stings a man to get passively turned down by 50 random strangers on the internet.

Women are pickier in general because women are biologically/neurologically wired to be way pickier about casual sex, and frankly many women understand the reality that a great deal of "dating" these days winds up boiling down to casual sex followed by a fade. Just straight up, not man-hating here but this is the truth.

And then, typically (not always, but typically) it's PD lover bomber types (gender irrelevant) who push for commitment to an exclusive relationship super early on. And I don't think it's totally crazy for a person to feel that a handful of dates is pretty flippin early on to be committing to exclusiveness. Especially considering many of the slimy people out there have figured out that going early exclusive can create a false sense of trust, making a pump-and-dump that much easier if you're dealing with a deluded woman.

So all around YES men SHOULD be EARNING the TRUST of a woman they are genuinely interested in. Of course a woman might want to wait a little to have sex if she actually likes you. If you pump-and-dump her and she actually liked you, HELLO it's going to emotionally wound her.

Now being sexually frustrated and all, needing to communicate clearly, etc etc this is all normal and chill stuff. If a guy gets too frustrated with too much action that doesn't go all the way, it's totally cool for a guy to let his lady know in a chill manner that she's turning him on too much. If he delivers is a certain way, hell it'd be flattering. (And if the woman freaks out in that scenario and demonizes his natural sex urges as somehow 'wrong' than that is her crazy issue, not his.)

But yeah I do find it disturbing when not only does a guy have some sense of entitlement and not think he should need to earn a woman's trust over a whopping couple of months (seriously?), but then furthermore gets this dark, narcissistic rage complex going on and views the woman as sinister and stuck up, I mean hory shat what the hell?

Bottom line is that a guy's sexual frustration is not sinister or somehow bad in any way, but neither is a gal's need to take it a bit slow if she actually likes you. Sure, it could be that she's not that into you, it's possible. But if she IS into you and especially if she has been burned before, then it's going to just make plain sense if she wants to gradually build up to it.

I'm just sick of seeing so many men complain that it's so hard to get dates, on one hand, and then so many perceive women as villains if they don't put out within a few weeks of dating, on the other hand. The latter situation is a huge factor in the former situation. I know many guys aren't like this, but enough are that it does affect things.

Like I emphasize a lot both genders just need to sympathize more with each other. Women giving men stronger green lights to help their confidence, men understanding that many women are gonna be cautious, etc. Most people are just good, lonely, horny folks and it could all be good.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Danda

January 17, 2015

She is not that into you.

To be honest, with the sex thing - if she really wanted to wait, she wouldn't be going to your place, making out and then pushing you away. It's not that easy for girls to do if they are really strongly attracted to someone. When I have done that, it was always because of a lukewarm attraction but I thought he looked like a good guy on paper so I wanted to wait and see if I can get more attracted. The exclusivity talk just confirms that.

This. When I've wanted to wait for some reason, I've purposefully stayed away from situations where sex was possible or likely, because if you're into someone and have chemistry, you want it as bad as the guy does. Plus to me, inviting someone into your bed is kinda code for sex... sure, people absolutely have a right to pull away, and some people might discuss ahead of time 'I'm not ready for sex but I want to sleep curled up with you', that's okay if it's all out in the open. But I don't think it's a wise idea to put yourselves in a position where sex is so easy to do, and purposefully pull away at the last minute without providing an explanation. It only confuses the other partner and also makes it look like you're playing some very obvious game of 'making the other person wait'. Which comes across as immature in my opinion.

Personally I don't think the girl is too into the OP, so she's avoiding sex because a) she only sleeps with people she's interested in a relationship with or b) she doesn't want OP to think it's more serious or exclusive than it really is, and knows that sex might ramp up the intimacy and pace between them.

Given that after six dates spread out over MONTHS, she refused to agree to exclusivity, I just don't think she's that into you. If it'd been six dates in a week she might have wanted to wait to get to know you a bit more. But she's had enough time with you to know if she wants to be exclusive or not, and if she was into you she'd have wanted to know that you weren't sleeping with other girls too by that stage.

So my money is on she's not into you, she's either seeing other people, or wants to, or isn't convinced she can have anything serious with the OP so doesn't wanna mix sex in with it.

When you really like someone you know, even after three dates, that you only want to date them and you'd be sad if they were dating others. It's not like you were asking for a relationship or to move in together, you just wanted to make sure you were both on the same page about forsaking other dating prospects while you explore the potential for a relationship between the two of you. If she wasn't willing to stop dating others, or bothered whether you're dating others or not, she's just not into you for anything beyond casually hanging out and having fun dates.

I wouldn't even bother to talk to her about it again because you already tried two dates ago with the exclusivity discussion. I'd move on.

January 17, 2015

Awon, bitter much?

Maybe she is unsure if she wants to have sex with you and she is trying to figure that out. Maybe she's a virgen and doesn't know how to tell you. Maybe life experience with a bunch of pump and dump jerks has taught her the benefit of really getting to know someone well before you become intimate with them.

And eight dates isn't really all that many. I've waited longer. And I LOVE sex. But it has to feel right and my bodily autonomy isn't trumped by your blue balls. If you're truly not comfortable with the situation (I wouldn't be comfortable in a relationship with a guy who wanted to wait until marriage for instance) you can leave, and the decision is made. But as mentioned before, why not just ask her?

No reaon to go all Awon-style passive aggressive, she doesn't OWE you a damn thing. But being an adult, you can have an adult discussion and get to the bottom of it.

Good luck.

I absolutely agree with you. No one's bodily autonomy trumps anyone's horniness.

I'm sure she has her own personal reasons and they are justified in her own mind.

What I am telling the OP is that, since sex is what he wants in a relationship, he should drop her now. He shouldn't keep dating her in the hopes that she will want to have sex at some point.

It will only lead to frustration on his own end and she will only end up wasting her own time.

Like it or not, sex is a key part of any budding relationship for many people. He has no incentive to keep dating someone when his own needs aren't being met.

To the OP: time is precious. The time spent taking a frigid woman out could be better spent banging a hotter woman who not only wants to have sex with you but also wants a relationship out of you.

Always remember that an interested woman will never confuse you.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Awon Apanilerin

January 17, 2015

I think the OP simply should have listened to her.

She said she wanted to 'take things slowly'.

He has decided that what she said is irrelevant. If she is aware of this then she will feel that he doesn't respect what she says to him. For me that would be a major turn off in terms of the dating turning into a relationship so instinctually I would be watching out for other signs that he didn't respect me.

Plus if he is able to communicate then he is able to say no to making out if she isn't ready for sex yet as he isn't able to handle it.

It's all flawed communication.

I expect that she is getting mixed signals and is unsure which is why she isn't jumping in the sack. She has an instinct that something isn't right and is protecting herself. I would too.

January 17, 2015

Yeah, I'm concerned that she didn't want exclusivity. As for waiting for sex, I always wait more than 8 dates because I only have sex while in a relationship. But then, again, not going to a guy's house either until I'm ready for sex. In this scenario, she's not sure about you, but again, not because of no sex, but because she said no to exclusivity. No girl will do that if she's into you. Maybe she's seeing someone else and wants to make a decision who she likes more.

January 17, 2015

some of the girls here wont tell the truth and will support the girl.

these girls know themselves that if they like a guy they have and would sleep with a guy very quickly.

the only way you will know OP is after she leaves you she will find a new guy and end up being with him within 2 weeks and sleeping with him after 2 dates and be in a rship.

girls will never tell you the truth. you have to figure it out urslef

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