Boyfriend of 6 years...toxic friendships damaging us.(UPDATED)

January 12, 2015

Well...I think it's high time I posted a thread of my own I think! Please excuse the length...but I'm genuinely reaching out here. I am considering ending my relationship with the man I planned to marry over this. I'm hurting and afraid, and plagued by feelings that I am making a mistake or perhaps not being reasonable. I'm hoping that some wise posters can help me gain some clarity here.

So, my boyfriend and I have been together for six years now. We are very much in love, and happy together. We've been through a lot (he had an emotional breakdown due to family issues in 2013 that really took a toll on us), but we got through it. My mother suffered a severe stroke and devastating brain damage...she was 43. My little sister lost her mother in a way that we sometimes feel is worse than death. My boyfriend and I moved in with my family to be close and help through this, and he has been an absolute godsend. He helped with my mother daily when we were too weak to do so. He takes my little sister on outings when things are rough and it looks like she could do with a break. He has been more amazing than I could ever have wished for through something so terrible. He suffered along with us.

Overall, we are very strong. He is incredibly trustworthy, and we have lived together for years now. He really is a fantastic partner...loving, loyal and honest. Marriage and children have been discussed many times, and we have both agreed to move forward with that when we're both ready. We are both 26 years old, focusing on our careers, travel etc.

Now, there has always been one thing. He's a lovable and highly social guy, who thrives off bringing joy to those around him and prides himself on being a good person. This works well with me, and we really enjoy ourselves. However, he has a group of friends that he has had since childhood. They're not good. At all.

My boyfriend's father had custody of him and his two brothers, and he suffered trauma and abandonment. His father picked up and left. He fended for himself from the age of 15, living with a drug addicted brother. He had it rough. At the age of 15, he relied heavily on his group of friends from school, and as teenagers do...spent a lot of time with them. He feels to this day that he owes them for being there through his father leaving, and has a great deal of trouble cutting ties when needed (some sort of attachment/anxiety issue). It is a problem, and he acknowledges this.

So that was 11 years ago. Now, unfortunately...these guys didn't really develop all that well. They have grown into different people. My boyfriend is nothing like these guys. Polar opposites.

There are three friends...one is literally on the verge of death due to constant drug and alcohol abuse. He recently married a girl...they both use together. Sad situation. Right before his wedding, this guy groped me and propositioned me at a party. He was incredibly intoxicated and suicidal. Messy stuff. Long story short...I gave him a proper piece of my mind, and advised my boyfriend immediately. He has cut contact. The guy is not well.

Second guy...super insecure. Constantly goes on hateful tirades against women. The type that hates absolutely everything that he doesn't have or do himself, and will trash anyone that does. Serious anger issues. Hooked up with a very emotionally unbalanced girl who has made up ridiculous and damaging lies against many of his friends, myself and my boyfriend included. He also angrily trash talks anyone and everyone. We have witnessed him abusing his girlfriend both physically and verbally, and my boyfriend has almost assaulted him because of this. My boyfriend has distanced to the point that they have not seen or contacted each other in six months, and he no longer wants anything to do with him.

And now the third guy...and my problem. This one is the worst, but he is the smartest. This is a guy who when drunk, has urinated on a homeless man sleeping for "fun." Drug abuse issues, and he tries to rope anyone around him into doing it as well. He has cleaned up for the most part though in that respect. His girlfriend is the most toxic, horrible and hateful person I've ever had the displeasure of coming across. Has made up lies about both myself and my partner...but I don't feel special, she has ddone it to literally everyone. Not a single nice word comes out of her mouth.

My boyfriend cannot detach from the last one. He has many other friends, and doesn't see him very often, but he has guilt about distancing. This guy is getting married to this nasty, horrible girl now. My boyfriend just went on a four night bachelor party trip with these guys. He felt depressed and disgusted by their behaviour. For a long time now, I haven't been able to be around any of these people, and my boyfriend is very understanding of this. He knows how much I have tolerated, and knows that they aren't good people. But he is too anxious and guilt-ridden to cut ties.

Now, the wedding is coming up. He has been asked to be in the bridal party...with the two other messed up friends. The thought of it makes me sick. I don't want to go. I don't want to be seated by myself, surrounded by a bunch of people who I despise, and who despise me in return. Watching the person I love up there, involved in the most important moment of their life, of a couple that have trashed and betrayed both of us over the years. A man who pisses on homeless people for goodness sakes. This sickens me. I feel anxious and betrayed.

I feel that being subjected to these horrible people over the years has damaged me. They've made me feel self conscious and rude, because I can't join in on their horrible crap. The girls hate me because I refuse to viciously bitch about the other people in their group, instead telling them as nicely as possible to leave me out of it. Well, I became the target. They are not good for me, or for my boyfriend. I can't do it anymore. I never, ever wanted to be in the position where I told him that he would have to choose his friends, or me. I tolerated this for years. Went to parties, grinned and tried to bare it. But no more. They are disgusting and I just can't be involved at all anymore.

I have never been even close to being a doormat. If anyone did something wrong by me, I'd confront them and work through it, or end the friendship. Thankfully, I've been lucky enough to have been surrounded by good people, so this has been a very rare occurrence. But with this group...it's constant. And I don't cause waves. I ignore it all because they mean nothing to me, and I don't want to blow everything up and cause my boyfriend stress or pain. I don't like being in a position where I feel like I can't confront or cut ties if I need to. Nothing is ever said to my face though of course, which makes it even tricker. They're super fake.

He has other fantastic friends who he is close with, and a healthy social life apart from this.

Am I wrong for feeling like this? Should I just go to this wedding, shut up, and suffer silently for his benefit? He is more than happy for me not to go, but I can't bear the thought. My absence would be embarrassing and raise a lot of eyebrows. I feel like the stress of this is going to be too much either way. I have just reached my limit with these people, and can't bear another moment. I need them gone from my life.

I feel betrayed and hurt. I feel as though my boyfriend has failed to protect me and our relationship from harm. I feel as though he should have put an end to this much, much sooner...I've shed tears, and we have had many fights about this over the years. He agrees with everything I am saying here, but explains that he just cannot cut the ties. He is trying. But it's just not happening quick enough for me...it has been 6 years of this.

I am considering ending things with him. The image of the man I love, standing up there with three of the most putrid human beings I have ever encountered, supporting the marriage of two people that have made up lies about us for no reason. I am losing respect for him. I feel as though the inability to stand up and do what is right is a serious issue, and I worry that I have lost faith in our future because of this.

I have been as tolerant and as patient as I could possibly be with this situation...but is there ever a point where it is okay to tell him to choose?

I am planning on telling him that if he must go to this wedding, then he must do so on his own. That I now need to move forward and totally cut these people from my life and leave them in the past, and that I hope he moves forward with me. Otherwise, he will have to stay behind with them on his own. I feel like I am being unreasonable, even though my head tells me that I'm not. I just can't handle it anymore. It's too damaging for me.

It worries me that if we can't make it through something like this together as a couple, united, without tears and pain, then our future doesn't look too bright. We have gotten through so much, and to have it end over this is quite devastating.

Please guys, your thoughts would be very much appreciated <3

P.S. Apologies for any typos and for the rambling...too tired and stressed to proof read right now.

Edited January 12, 2015 by almond

January 12, 2015

I am planning on telling him that if he must go to this wedding, then he must do so on his own. That I now need to move forward and totally cut these people from my life and leave them in the past, and that I hope he moves forward with me. Otherwise, he will have to stay behind with them on his own. I feel like I am being unreasonable, even though my head tells me that I'm not. I just can't handle it anymore. It's too damaging for me.

It worries me that if we can't make it through something like this together as a couple, united, without tears and pain, then our future doesn't look too bright. We have gotten through so much, and to have it end over this is quite devastating.

Tough situation, and I can feel your pain in your writing. I don't think you're being unreasonable if these people are as awful as you describe. You didn't say exactly what lies they told about you, but if it was serious stuff then you need no more justification than that to cut all ties. If he agrees with you in principle but can't cut ties for no other reason than the history and his anxiety then perhaps he needs some counseling to help bring some clarity... it seems that his feelings are not aligned with his thinking. If he can listen to reasoning then reason with him and help him understand where you are with it all.

As far as the immediate situation goes, is compromise possible? Can you stay away from the wedding, and let him go by himself with the understanding that after that these people must fade away as you turn the page? That avoids the harshness of him having to exit at a critical moment and making headlines. Thereafter the two of you move forward with your lives and avoid any interaction with this couple. Is that a possibility?

Otherwise, you will probably have to issue the ultimatum. The problem with an ultimatum is that if he doesn't really want to cut ties and does it just to hold onto the relationship then it will feel like a big power play and probably be destructive. From what you say though, I don't think there's any question that you have to cut your own ties with the couple.

Does he realize yet that your relationship is on the line over this?

January 12, 2015

He was lost and alone and those three guys were his "brothers" his support system.

Each was scarred by their own circumstances, and I guess they clung to each other forming a huge bond.

Your bf seems to have come through the experience and has ended up the more balanced individual (though he also has issues), but his "brothers" still have big issues.

They have chosen "badly" re their lives and their partners, but that is not really unexpected is it. Childhood trauma leaves deep wounds.

Four lost souls.

I think you have to go and support your bf at this wedding.

If he is made to choose between them and you, then you may find yourself alone.

They are his "family", like it or not, even the one he is not talking to at the moment.

Obviously if they intrude into your lives together after the wedding then you may think of leaving this relationship, but to leave your bf due to a wedding is a slight over-reaction, though I totally get why you say this.

January 12, 2015

Tough situation, and I can feel your pain in your writing. I don't think you're being unreasonable if these people are as awful as you describe. You didn't say exactly what lies they told about you, but if it was serious stuff then you need no more justification than that to cut all ties. If he agrees with you in principle but can't cut ties for no other reason than the history and his anxiety then perhaps he needs some counseling to help bring some clarity... it seems that his feelings are not aligned with his thinking. If he can listen to reasoning then reason with him and help him understand where you are with it all.

As far as the immediate situation goes, is compromise possible? Can you stay away from the wedding, and let him go by himself with the understanding that after that these people must fade away as you turn the page? That avoids the harshness of him having to exit at a critical moment and making headlines. Thereafter the two of you move forward with your lives and avoid any interaction with this couple. Is that a possibility?

Otherwise, you will probably have to issue the ultimatum. The problem with an ultimatum is that if he doesn't really want to cut ties and does it just to hold onto the relationship then it will feel like a big power play and probably be destructive. From what you say though, I don't think there's any question that you have to cut your own ties with the couple.

Does he realize yet that your relationship is on the line over this?

Thank you for a very well thought out response, I appreciate that.

We communicate quite well, but he has struggled with his anxiety. He was seeing a psychologist, but made good progress and improvement, so we agreed to hold off on the sessions till they were required again. He has advised that he will be booking an appointment this week, as this has been rough on both of us. We are also going to go to relationship counselling to get some professional input. He appreciates where I am at, and expresses his regret at having put me through this. Thankfully, he is quite reasonable and really wants to improve...his issues do hold him back though, and we both suffer as a result. His intentions are very good, if only he could follow through huh This is very hard for him, and I feel horrible that I need to cause added stress.

I've felt like the compromise wasn't possible...and really wanted to feel like a team on this. This was heightened by the fact that yesterday, I was informed that the girl getting married was telling lies about how I treat my employees (which she would have no way of knowing anyway)...nothing worth repeating, just crap basically. I don't know why they do this...I've never given much more than a hello or goodbye to these people, and this seems to make them enjoy talking crap about me. My boyfriend can't stand her, and doesn't speak to her. Just his friend, who she is marrying. Thank-you for laying out that compromise...I had worked it over in my head 100 times, but it just felt wrong. I felt like he should pass on the wedding as a sign of loyalty to me or something maybe? My emotions were clouding my judgement. I was pretty pissed off and maybe not being reasonable with that. Reading it as you wrote it, straight forward and logical...it now seems like the most reasonable solution here. Thanks. My boyfriend will be very happy with this alternative.

I did not want to issue the ultimatum, I just felt trapped in this situation and wanted to run from these people. I can very clearly see that this could result in resentment and a feeling of being controlled...this is what I was most scared of. If he did something he wasn't ready for, the anxiety would shoot through the roof, and he would likely feel a sense of regret. I would have felt incredibly bad watching him suffer through that, knowing I forced his hand.

I am quite direct - I explained everything to him that I explained to you guys in my post, and more. He was great, and very understanding. Completely validated my feelings and apologised for his part in them. He is just stuck.

I think we will get through this. I will speak to him tonight about this, and see how he feels about going to the wedding alone, but to consider cutting ties with them afterwards. I will update.

Feeling a bit better now

January 12, 2015

but you contradict yourself, you say you want out but you also say you are afraid the friends will wreck your future with him

do not go, but do not have an arguement either you are asking for trouble, just do not go

Edited January 12, 2015 by darkmoon

January 12, 2015

I think you have to go and support your bf at this wedding.
If he is made to choose between them and you, then you may find yourself alone.
They are his "family", like it or not, even the one he is not talking to at the moment.
Obviously if they intrude into your lives together after the wedding then you may think of leaving this relationship, but to leave your bf due to a wedding is a slight over-reaction, though I totally get why you say this.

I completely disagree that these three are his family. I'm not sure if you read my post, but one of them groped me and propositioned me at a party. Family don't do that.

I won't go into all of the other things over the years, but suffice to say, all three have betrayed him deeply. They have not had a strong friendship since they were around 18 years old...so eight years ago now. He has cut two of them off, and is only in contact with one of them once every few weeks or so.

They weren't there for him at all in 2013 when he had his breakdown...in fact, the guy getting married went around calling him weak and other such things. He has his real friends...the ones who he can trust and depend on. And it's not these guys.

I really do wish I could go and support him at the wedding...but I just can't. It feels so wrong to go and pretend to be happy for people I despise. I wouldn't want someone at my wedding who feels the way I do about them.

Thank-you for your post, I appreciate you taking your time to read that wall of text!!

January 12, 2015

but you contradict yourself, you say you want out but you also say you are afraid the friends will wreck your future with him

do not go, but do not have an arguement either you are asking for trouble, just do not go

I'm not sure I can see the contradiction...I do not, by any stretch want to end my relationship!! I had considered ending it because these people are a toxic influence in my life that I cannot tolerate anymore. I need to escape the b.s that they bring one way or the other. I've seen my boyfriend hurt by them countless times, and it's bad for both of us.

I can't live with them anymore, and he is not ready to cut ties. This is why I considered ending the relationship...that's not a contradiction.

Also, we are not arguing. We are discussing a serious issue that is hurting us both, and communicating our feelings and trying to come up with a solution. I don't feel that bottling all of this in and pretending that it's not happening would be helpful. We need to work this out, together.

Hope that clears some things up and thanks for your reply

January 12, 2015

I find it odd that it would take you 6 years to decide his friends are not compatible. Also, I was under the impression that you and your SO recreationally maybe use drugs so throwing his friends under the bus seems hypocritical.

Sounds like he is slowly cutting out bad people over time. I feel like over time he will continue distancing himself from some of these bad guys. As long as your SO is maturing, stay with him I feel like. If he is as loving and trustworthy as you say that is hard to find.

January 12, 2015

I find it odd that it would take you 6 years to decide his friends are not compatible. Also, I was under the impression that you and your SO recreationally maybe use drugs so throwing his friends under the bus seems hypocritical.

Sounds like he is slowly cutting out bad people over time. I feel like over time he will continue distancing himself from some of these bad guys. As long as your SO is maturing, stay with him I feel like. If he is as loving and trustworthy as you say that is hard to find.

I knew very early on that these people were no good. We were 19 years old when we got together, and their drug abuse came later...as did the large majority of their nastiness. Even though I knew that these people weren't compatible as you say, I have never wanted to dictate who my partner can and cannot be friends with. I simply chose to be polite and civil, and keep my distance wherever possible. This worked for some time, but their behaviour and issues have spiralled out of control, and we are suffering because of it. I feel like I've tolerated it for as long as I can, and to do so any longer would be unhealthy.

I'm curious as to what gave you the impression that we are drug users? If we had used substances recreationally...this is very, very different to serious drug abuse and addiction, and all that this entails. I don't feel that would be hypocritical at all...chalk and cheese. Having a few glasses of wine once per month vs. chronic alcoholism for example...one brings pain and suffering to everyone in contact with you, the other doesn't. I am not "throwing them under the bus," and I apologise if I gave this impression. I stated in my first post that the addicts are unwell, and that the situation saddens me.

I totally agree with your last paragraph, and I appreciate your thoughts. That was quite comforting for me, and has helped me realise that I may have been overreacting due to the stress that this has caused me over time. He is definitely cutting them out slowly, but their behaviour is rapidly worsening, and it is really hard to withstand for even a second longer.

Thank-you <3

Edited January 12, 2015 by almond

January 12, 2015

I completely disagree that these three are his family. I'm not sure if you read my post, but one of them groped me and propositioned me at a party. Family don't do that.

Thing is, they have a deep bond that is not the same as three guys he met at work over the water cooler, that is why I feel they are like "family". I bet in a few years time he will be speaking to them all again, as that is what happens in this type of relationship.

They all went on the bachelor party trip together and I guess they had a good time no matter how "appalled" your bf said he was.

It is the stuff memories are made of actually, the more wacky the better...

I am not sure why you are positioning yourself in opposition here after 6 years. You may well win, your bf seems open to going alone to the wedding, but you may also foster resentment too in your bf, if you continue this stance. You are not a team, if you will not support him here. This is his mate's wedding, like it or not.

It seems like you are saying "it is my way or the highway" here and that may come back and bite you on the bum.

January 12, 2015

Thing is, they have a deep bond that is not the same as three guys he met at work over the water cooler, that is why I feel they are like "family". I bet in a few years time he will be speaking to them all again, as that is what happens in this type of relationship.
They all went on the bachelor party trip together and I guess they had a good time no matter how "appalled" your bf said he was.
It is the stuff memories are made of actually, the more wacky the better...

I am not sure why you are positioning yourself in opposition here after 6 years. You may well win, your bf seems open to going alone to the wedding, but you may also foster resentment too in your bf, if you continue this stance. You are not a team, if you will not support him here. This is his mate's wedding, like it or not.
It seems like you are saying "it is my way or the highway" here and that may come back and bite you on the bum.

I'm not sure what type of relationships you're referring to, but I know my boyfriend, and it takes a lot for him to end a friendship. I very much doubt that he will ever again resume speaking to the guy that groped his girlfriend and made sexual advances. My boyfriend is a lovely guy who avoids confrontation when possible, but he has his limits and his pride. There was certainly confrontation this time. He won't be going back to that friendship.

And the second guy, also definitely done and dusted. We had witnessed him physically abusing his girlfriend (to the point of kicking her), and this enraged my boyfriend to the point where he physically intervened, and had to be held back. He ended the relationship after that, and has not spoken to this guy in six months.

If you had known the details of what occurred on the bachelor trip, I don't think you'd be saying "the wackier the better." My boyfriend had money stolen out of his wallet. One of these guys spent literally the entire time in the hotel, never leaving, drinking everyone else's alcohol and lying in bed vomiting on himself every day. My boyfriend said it looked as though he was in palliative care. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit now. But there were 10 guys on this trip, and my boyfriend spent his time up there with the other people in attendance, not the two that he had cut contact with.

I have explained multiple times why I am now in opposition after 6 years. I can appreciate what you're saying re: supporting him, but I do not agree that in order to be a team that I need to support decisions that I feel are unhealthy, or would do me harm. I don't want to be in this position...believe me. I have tolerated this for a long time for that exact reason. Any resentment building does scare me, but my boyfriend has assured me multiple times that he totally appreciates where I am coming from, and that he wholeheartedly agrees with me. He says he knows what he needs to do, but his anxiety and guilt is holding him back.

January 12, 2015

I knew very early on that these people were no good. We were 19 years old when we got together, and their drug abuse came later...as did the large majority of their nastiness. Even though I knew that these people weren't compatible as you say, I have never wanted to dictate who my partner can and cannot be friends with. I simply chose to be polite and civil, and keep my distance wherever possible. This worked for some time, but their behaviour and issues have spiralled out of control, and we are suffering because of it. I feel like I've tolerated it for as long as I can, and to do so any longer would be unhealthy.

I'm curious as to what gave you the impression that we are drug users? If we had used substances recreationally...this is very, very different to serious drug abuse and addiction, and all that this entails. I don't feel that would be hypocritical at all...chalk and cheese. Having a few glasses of wine once per month vs. chronic alcoholism for example...one brings pain and suffering to everyone in contact with you, the other doesn't. I am not "throwing them under the bus," and I apologise if I gave this impression. I stated in my first post that the addicts are unwell, and that the situation saddens me.

I totally agree with your last paragraph, and I appreciate your thoughts. That was quite comforting for me, and has helped me realise that I may have been overreacting due to the stress that this has caused me over time. He is definitely cutting them out slowly, but their behaviour is rapidly worsening, and it is really hard to withstand for even a second longer.

Thank-you <3

That's good you weren't telling him who to be friends with. You sound mature in that regard, he will have to choose for himself. Lots of maturing tends to happen in our 20s so hopefully he will see his friends in the same light you do and make adjustments. Your profile pic of mdma was a sign, and yes occasional possible use is different than addiction. Best of luck.

January 12, 2015

That's good you weren't telling him who to be friends with. You sound mature in that regard, he will have to choose for himself. Lots of maturing tends to happen in our 20s so hopefully he will see his friends in the same light you do and make adjustments. Your profile pic of mdma was a sign, and yes occasional possible use is different than addiction. Best of luck.

Was waiting for someone to notice my cheeky profile pic I'm currently involved in a push for research of MDMA to treat certain psychiatric disorders. Interesting stuff, and lots of progress being made.

Thank-you for your kind thoughts and feedback, and you're right - 20s are a funny age. Adjusting into real, adult life certainly brings with it a lot of challenges and opportunities for growth. I hope we can overcome this hurdle and learn from it.

Hope you have a great day

January 12, 2015

My thoughts:

The pressing matter right now is the wedding and how to approach it ...... the aftermath ...... post wedding ...... can be dealt with in the future.

That being said, my advice would be for you to not be in attendance at the wedding. In your own words, these people have damaged you to some extent over the years ...... and continue to speak ill will of you despite no prompting on your part.

At twenty, in many ways, people are still children ...... at 26 people are generally considered young adults. Moreover, most people do things they are deeply ashamed of ...... or at least not proud of in their life ...... usually when younger and less mature. In time, with more experience, wisdom, and clarity we "grow up" ...... if you will ...... and change for the better.

However, it seems that your boyfriend's childhood friends have remained lost, broken, and stagnated. As a result. they are dwelling in abuse and self-destructive behaviors ...... grossly affecting them and those surrounding them.

I believe your boyfriend should go to the wedding and show his support ...... without you there. I don't think you should lose respect for him over this ...... especially because it does seem he is coming around to breaking ties with each of them ...... slowly but surely.

What about the possibility of a negative reaction from your absence at the wedding? My advice would be to let those thoughts go ...... who cares what they think. They are not your friends and your boyfriend has drifted apart from each of them over time ...... because he does see, indeed, their harmful actions.

I believe that getting through the wedding will open up the door to resolution in the future ...... meaning that a full break from this dysfunction may be possible for your boyfriend after seeing this commitment through.

January 12, 2015

Thank you so much for your post, it was very helpful, and has helped me to feel more positive and at ease. I read it twice, and have taken everything on board.

What about the possibility of a negative reaction from your absence at the wedding? My advice would be to let those thoughts go ...... who cares what they think. They are not your friends and your boyfriend has drifted apart from each of them over time ...... because he does see, indeed, their harmful actions.

I could not care less what these particular people think...in fact, if it were up to me, I'd be telling them directly. What worries me is that they are having a very large and extravagant wedding...plenty of people that don't know them well will be in attendance, including people that I socialise with and enjoy the company of. People can see what they are and I don't know a single person that likes them, but everyone in this social group is linked in certain ways...it's odd. My boyfriend will be in the bridal party, and my absence will most definitely be noticed and inquired about. I don't want him to look bad to people that don't know the ins and outs of the situation, or for him to feel embarrassed that others would assume that his girlfriend refused to attend to support him. That wouldn't make either of us look or feel very good. I'm sure he will be okay with it, and he has said as much, it's just unpleasant I guess.

I don't want to make a big issue of this at all, or trash these people (ie. explain my reasons for not attending to multiple people) and risk starting trouble for my boyfriend if it can be avoided at all. But that's the only way I could justify not attending without lying. I guess the best option would simply be to come up with a good and valid excuse (a bad flu), even if it isn't the truth. I'll speak to my boyfriend about this and see what he prefers.

Thanks again

January 12, 2015

This is really easy. You are making it hard.

Don't go. It's really as simple as that. Let your BF go. Offer to pick him up if DWI is an issue.

He can just say you weren't available. He doesn't have to say why.

I was in a great relationship for 12 years. He didn't like my childhood friends & would never come when I hung out with them. It wasn't that big of a deal. Once in a while they'd tease me about his absence but nobody made me choose. (The end of that relationship had nothing to do with my friends).

January 12, 2015

The situation with your friends sounds a lot healthier and less destructive than this one, so perhaps that's why I feel very differently.

I really wish it was as easy for my boyfriend and I as it has been for you, but it just isn't unfortunately

And I don't think I will attend, but he will have to offer an explanation...

"Where is Almond?"

"She is not available."

"Oh why? Where is she?"

...

"I don't have to say why" wouldn't quite work, and would make things unnecessarily awkward for everyone.

I don't want to put him in that position. He will be asked at least 10 times throughout the night, if not more, by different people. We will come up with something that works

Edited January 12, 2015 by almond

January 12, 2015

...it now seems like the most reasonable solution here. Thanks. My boyfriend will be very happy with this alternative.

I think we will get through this. I will speak to him tonight about this, and see how he feels about going to the wedding alone, but to consider cutting ties with them afterwards. I will update. Feeling a bit better now

I am glad this feels like a workable solution for you! It would be a shame to give these people the power to come between you when you're essentially on the same page in realizing they aren't his true, loyal friends...

They weren't there for him at all in 2013 when he had his breakdown...in fact, the guy getting married went around calling him weak and other such things. He has his real friends...the ones who he can trust and depend on. And it's not these guys.

The long-time childhood friends can form strong bonds, even when people diverge onto different paths. He is lucky to have someone as understanding and steadfast as you seem to be in dealing with this dilemma.

These things you're saying in the second quote above can be used to help him arrive at the realization that he doesn't owe them his undivided lifelong loyalty, but... and this is really important! You must help him come to this realization himself, and that may be a process. Careful not to create a dynamic where he's inclined to resist the realization.

I'm glad you have the therapy sessions set up. It seems like maybe he hasn't given himself permission to make certain kinds of choices that are necessary to move forward.

Best of luck in working it all out!

Edited January 12, 2015 by salparadise

January 12, 2015

The situation with your friends sounds a lot healthier and less destructive than this one, so perhaps that's why I feel very differently.

I really wish it was as easy for my boyfriend and I as it has been for you, but it just isn't unfortunately

And I don't think I will attend, but he will have to offer an explanation...

"Where is Almond?"

"She is not available."

"Oh why? Where is she?"

...

"I don't have to say why" wouldn't quite work, and would make things unnecessarily awkward for everyone.

I don't want to put him in that position. He will be asked at least 10 times throughout the night, if not more, by different people. We will come up with something that works

I just said Busy. It was annoying that people asked over & over but I just gave them the same non-answer. If they got pushy about it, I pushed back all the way to

them: where is your

BF

?

me: he couldn't make it

them: why not

me: he was busy / had something else to do

them: what?

me: why do you care?

It's not that easy but you have to stand firm. It's either that or you go, be miserable & stir up trouble. I was happier saying my EX was busy 10+ times then having to put up with him being annoyed, like you will be, at having to be there.

Your BF is an adult & will survive being asking the Q multiple times.

January 12, 2015

I feel that there are some significant boundary issues here … and OP I'm sorry to say that some of them are your own. For example, you are a part of the negative drama if you are even aware that the girls are saying bad things about you. That doesn't need to be anywhere on your radar! I hope you don't really have to break up with the love of your life because of his loserly friends, but it really sounds like he is fairly removed from all of them except for this wedding situation. If I were in your shoes I would probably go and "be polite" but I agree with the advice to simply not go. And what will your boyfriend say? That is really nothing for you to be concerned about, it's up to him, there's a boundary there too! I wish you the very best, it sounds like both you and he have been through more than your share of very hard times and I hope you can be there for one another!

January 13, 2015

You're in a tough spot. These messed up friends of his are what he thinks of as family, and so he feels obligated to try to hang in there with them like you do a messed up sibling. He has abandonment issues and he understands the hurt of that. All those friends of his probably do too. He doesn't want to abandon them.

I don't think it's right to stop him from attending the wedding. If you trust him explicitly, then don't go with him. I think after the wedding, you need to have a calm talk with him about how much involvement you are willing to tolerate with these guys. You need to bring up children and ask him point-blank if he plans on letting any of these guys be around your kids, if he thinks that's all right or not.

Look at the bright side, the one getting married, if he doesn't have kids yet, will have kids and maybe that will take him out of circulation!!

January 13, 2015

OP

I had a hard time growing up and really leaned on my friends. It effected my boundaries and despite getting rid of most of them just ended up meeting other less toxic people but toxic all the same. Asking him to cut contact with them is like asking him to isolate himself from people who truly know him.

Id recommend couples counselling and in the sessions bring up that you dont feel he has aporopriate boundaries with this group of friends. That they push him into situations he should not tolerate, and how this effects his relationship with you.

I normally think couples counselling is a waste of time and money, because by the time you get there its too late. In your case however i think it would be very helpful, and it would take the load off of you where you are criticizing his friends.

January 13, 2015

I am glad this feels like a workable solution for you! It would be a shame to give these people the power to come between you when you're essentially on the same page in realizing they aren't his true, loyal friends...

The long-time childhood friends can form strong bonds, even when people diverge onto different paths. He is lucky to have someone as understanding and steadfast as you seem to be in dealing with this dilemma.

These things you're saying in the second quote above can be used to help him arrive at the realization that he doesn't owe them his undivided lifelong loyalty, but... and this is really important! You must help him come to this realization himself, and that may be a process. Careful not to create a dynamic where he's inclined to resist the realization.

I'm glad you have the therapy sessions set up. It seems like maybe he hasn't given himself permission to make certain kinds of choices that are necessary to move forward.

Best of luck in working it all out!

You really are one of those people that truly knows what you're talking about. Your advice has been very valuable to me, and I'd like to once again thank you for taking the time to help <3

He has realised it all himself a long time ago. When asked, he advises that he is very aware that these people are not good for him, and that he knows what he needs to do...but just can't. When I told him that I was informed that two of these people had recently made up lies about how I treat my employees, he told me that he felt relieved...he said it just made it easier for him to do what needs to do. I thought his reaction was very telling.

Their betrayals over time made him realise this on his own, and I have watched him hurt over these people more times than I can count. I remained quiet and simply listened and gave my support, to avoid the exact dynamic that you outlined. I think I need to remember that once again, as I think a feeling of desperation caused me to push him a little too hard this time.

I genuinely appreciate your advice, you are very insightful.

It sounds like you both are mature and have a great relationship. Hopefully, you can talk it out and come to a compromise that will allow you to move on and distance yourself from toxic people. It is obvious that he is choosing you, the timing is difficult. I understand your frustration. It seems so simple to you, just stop the relationship. But you have described it so well, that these people were family to him. Maybe he is realizing slowing that you are is family and you are treating him how family should be treated. Could it be that the patterns of his childhood are slowly being erased by your kind compassionate yet firm and unwavering words. Hope you get this resolved and it brings your relationship even closer. -Cookin'Quiltin

You're right - it does seem so simple to me, although I try as hard as possible to always remain aware of the fact that it is not this way at all for him. I do get frustrated with it sometimes, but I know to keep that under control as much as I can. I will continue to remain as kind, understanding and as supportive as possible through this time...I know it is very hard for him

Thanks for your well wishes

I just said Busy. It was annoying that people asked over & over but I just gave them the same non-answer. If they got pushy about it, I pushed back all the way to

them: where is your
BF
?

me: he couldn't make it

them: why not

me: he was busy / had something else to do

them: what?

me: why do you care?

It's not that easy but you have to stand firm. It's either that or you go, be miserable & stir up trouble. I was happier saying my EX was busy 10+ times then having to put up with him being annoyed, like you will be, at having to be there.

Your BF is an adult & will survive being asking the Q multiple times.

Or..I can simply not go, but offer an excuse instead, which is what I plan to do. I apologise if I have given the impression that I am worried about what my boyfriend will say about my absence...this is not something that troubles me. I was thinking out loud when I mentioned it I think. This is easily sorted and under control

And he will survive I'm sure. However, I am very much expected to attend this wedding by many, many people. I addressed this in post #15...I think we will just come up with a reasonable excuse that will make things easier for everyone. Many of our friends will be asking...friends that I like. "Why do you care?" just wouldn't be an appropriate response.

I feel that there are some significant boundary issues here … and OP I'm sorry to say that some of them are your own. For example, you are a part of the negative drama if you are even aware that the girls are saying bad things about you. That doesn't need to be anywhere on your radar! I hope you don't really have to break up with the love of your life because of his loserly friends, but it really sounds like he is fairly removed from all of them except for this wedding situation. If I were in your shoes I would probably go and "be polite" but I agree with the advice to simply not go. And what will your boyfriend say? That is really nothing for you to be concerned about, it's up to him, there's a boundary there too! I wish you the very best, it sounds like both you and he have been through more than your share of very hard times and I hope you can be there for one another!

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure that I can identify any significant boundary issues in what you've described...could you perhaps elaborate?

The reason I sometimes hear that these people speak negatively of me, is because we are involved in a large social group. The group is made up of different sub-groups I suppose you could say, and we sometimes all meet at social events. The toxic ones go out of their way to make nasty comments about everyone, to anyone that will listen. Sometimes a well-meaning friend will hear something and inform me. For example, one of my closest friend's sisters is in a relationship with someone who socialises with these guys often. So, naturally things get passed on from time to time through the group. I never ask details, and I brush it off as soon as I hear it. There have been many fights and arguments within this group, but I have always managed to keep my distance enough to prevent being involved. I generally inform these friends afterwards that I don't care to know anything these people say, as it's said about everyone and isn't worth repeating. They are all of the same opinion.

Re: How my boyfriend will explain my absence: I feel it is somewhat of a concern for me (outlined in post #15) as it is a large wedding, and many of my friends and people that I care about will be attending. "She's busy" won't cut it, and I need to now decide whether to tell everyone the truth and possibly cause a ****-storm, or just come up with an excuse that won't cause waves and move on. I feel that my boyfriend and I are both involved, and we will both be asked about the absence separately. I don't feel that us discussing this together is a boundary issue.

Thank you for your kind words...we have had a bit of a rough time, but that's just life sometimes I appreciate your thoughts <3

You're in a tough spot. These messed up friends of his are what he thinks of as family, and so he feels obligated to try to hang in there with them like you do a messed up sibling. He has abandonment issues and he understands the hurt of that. All those friends of his probably do too. He doesn't want to abandon them.

I don't think it's right to stop him from attending the wedding. If you trust him explicitly, then don't go with him. I think after the wedding, you need to have a calm talk with him about how much involvement you are willing to tolerate with these guys. You need to bring up children and ask him point-blank if he plans on letting any of these guys be around your kids, if he thinks that's all right or not.

Look at the bright side, the one getting married, if he doesn't have kids yet, will have kids and maybe that will take him out of circulation!!

Thanks for your post - some very good points. I have considered all of them and they have been helpful And thanks for reinforcing that it is the wrong thing to do to try and stop him from attending - I am quite embarrassed that I even considered it to be honest. I was upset and hurting last night, and I think that pushed me to some extreme thoughts. Feeling much better today

OP

I had a hard time growing up and really leaned on my friends. It effected my boundaries and despite getting rid of most of them just ended up meeting other less toxic people but toxic all the same. Asking him to cut contact with them is like asking him to isolate himself from people who truly know him.

Id recommend couples counselling and in the sessions bring up that you dont feel he has aporopriate boundaries with this group of friends. That they push him into situations he should not tolerate, and how this effects his relationship with you.

I normally think couples counselling is a waste of time and money, because by the time you get there its too late. In your case however i think it would be very helpful, and it would take the load off of you where you are criticizing his friends.

Agreed - counselling is a great idea for us, and we will be going ahead with it. I can appreciate that it must be hard from him, and it is an interesting point you make re: the people that truly know him. They were the ones who saw him through a very hard time in his life, and I can imagine that this means a lot to him. They saw him at one of his worst points, and held his hand through it (by encouraging him to binge drink at every possible moment, but still.) There were definitely some strong attachments there, healthy or not, and I will try to remain sensitive towards that.

Thanks

Edited January 13, 2015 by almond

January 13, 2015

Many of our friends will be asking...friends that I like. "Why do you care?" just wouldn't be an appropriate response.

It is a very rude response. I know that. I only said it when the person pushed & pushed & pushed & refused to take the polite but evasive answers as my response.

If you can come up with a an excuse fine.

Just in the end, don't go & be miserable. That will be worse.

I suppose another option could be you show up for a little while but considering how expensive weddings are, that isn't the nicest approach.

January 13, 2015

I need to now decide whether to tell everyone the truth and possibly cause a ****-storm, or just come up with an excuse that won't cause waves and move on. I feel that my boyfriend and I are both involved, and we will both be asked about the absence separately. I don't feel that us discussing this together is a boundary issue.

As someone who has become adept at managing family drama (my H's), I will advise this: come up with an excuse. Unless you really want to have the air-it-all-out come-to-Jesus moment over this (I'm guessing you don't), make something reasonable up and don't go. People will still whisper, if that's what they're inclined to do, so be prepared for that. But you will serve the larger good, which is preserving your peace and your boyfriend's peace. I don't think this wedding is the hill you want to die on, so to speak. Nobody will come out of a confrontation over a friend's wedding - when emotions and tensions are already high - looking good, and it will strain your relationship. There are too many extraneous tangles tied up in a wedding, memories of friendship become more intense - so save the discussions over how to disengage from this last toxic friend for another, calmer time, after the wedding, when it's more natural to pull away into a slow fade of the friendship anyway.

Just tell your BF to say something like "almond was really not feeling well" or "almond had a work commitment/project that she couldn't get out of" and that "she wishes she could be here and is happy for you both". Flat-out lie, but with the best of intentions. No shame in that.

Edited January 13, 2015 by serial muse

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Boyfriend of 6 years...toxic friendships damaging us.(UPDATED)

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