Is an affair a character flaw? Or is everyone capable?

January 12, 2015

Obviously when you decide to marry, both spouses know, or will communicate to each other that cheating is wrong.. You do not marry a woman who might say "Well, if romance slips a bit i will start having affairs"

In my own situation, and while reading these threads, it seems there is an enormous amount of blame shifting taking place.. The cheater never seemingly wants to admit fault..

I look back and I also had the same reasons to cheat or date while being married.. Lack of sex, arguments, fights, etc.. I am sure I could have found a woman who wanted to have a purely sexual relationships that was just sex, fun and exchanging niceties.

Do cheating spouses actually realize what they are doing is just a fantasy? Do they realize how them and their affair partner have an unfair advantage over the relationship they are in?

I read so many threads on here how their new affair partner is just better, they wish they met them earlier, they wish they married them etc. Can people really be this short sighted? Do they not realize they are having a fake relationship with only the good parts of a relationship?

January 12, 2015

I can't claim to speak for anyone but myself, but i know myself weel enough to be able to say i won't cheat. I've had plenty of opportuntites, and been in plenty of situtions where some might cheat, and it never crossed my mind as a possibiltiy. The one time when I thoguht about it , not in terms of somehting I wanted to do but rather " what would happen if i...", it made me feel ill.

I think some people have it in them to cheat, but have great stength of character and never do. It might cross their mind as a fleeting thought or soemthing more serrious, but they never act on it.

For others, they don't plant to cheat, but end up doing so.

Still other people are like me, and just don't have it in them to be with more than one person. I have many, many flaws - wr all do- and there may be lot of negtaive things that could be said about me, but having it in me to cheat is not one of them.

January 12, 2015

Obviously when you decide to marry, both spouses know, or will communicate to each other that cheating is wrong.. You do not marry a woman who might say "Well, if romance slips a bit i will start having affairs"

In my own situation, and while reading these threads, it seems there is an enormous amount of blame shifting taking place.. The cheater never seemingly wants to admit fault..

I look back and I also had the same reasons to cheat or date while being married.. Lack of sex, arguments, fights, etc.. I am sure I could have found a woman who wanted to have a purely sexual relationships that was just sex, fun and exchanging niceties.

Do cheating spouses actually realize what they are doing is just a fantasy? Do they realize how them and their affair partner have an unfair advantage over the relationship they are in?

I read so many threads on here how their new affair partner is just better, they wish they met them earlier, they wish they married them etc. Can people really be this short sighted? Do they not realize they are having a fake relationship with only the good parts of a relationship?

I think for Waywards, especially women, they really do need to believe that they were in love. Why? Because they are risking their families and its easier to say yes I know what I did was wrong but I thought I was in love. Really I think it's another way to deflect guilt.

January 12, 2015

I think for Waywards, especially women, they really do need to believe that they were in love. Why? Because they are risking their families and its easier to say yes I know what I did was wrong but I thought I was in love. Really I think it's another way to deflect guilt.

I could even understand a one night stand.... But an ongoing affair, that is so long and drawn out, with so much lying, especially if children are involved, you basically must be a different type of person, or at least I would think..

January 12, 2015

I could even understand a one night stand.... But an ongoing affair, that is so long and drawn out, with so much lying, especially if children are involved, you basically must be a different type of person, or at least I would think..

That's it though, a lot of cheaters say that they felt like a different person when they are with their affair partners. And isn't the allure? You get be who ever you want with your AP. Cheating for people is an escape. They don't have to think about kids, work, or chores. If they wanted to, the wife gets to act like a sl*t and the husbamd gets to act like a player.

January 12, 2015

I think there are 3 types of cheaters: 1st timers who go looking for it, 1st timers who were not looking for it when it happened, and serial cheaters (who obviously look for it). When I say look for it, I mean exactly that, they flirt, hang out in places that are for picking up, go on dating sites, talk to opposite sex members that they are attracted to about their M problems, etc.etc. When I say they were not looking for it, I mean that they never thought or imagined themselves cheating and never thought it possible, but they are still, knowingly or unknowingly, missing something in the M, and worse yet, they had no idea another person from the opposite sex could make them feel these wonderful feelings. Those feelings were not imaginable to them, they had never experienced them before or had long forgotten them. These are the most vulnerable people of all because they think they are above it, only to be easily "assaulted" by it. That which you are oblivious to is the thing can destroy you the most.

I would say for the vulnerable type who was not looking for it, it is a weakness. A weakness to not recognize and resist. These people are not bad though and it's not just an issue of being strong or weak. It's more that they have a stronger want and need for the things that were missing in their lives than those who are also missing it but can resist more easily. They are not bad people. At least I would not call them bad. Just defenseless and unprepared in that moment. They often find themselves wrapped up before they know it and are then confused and don't know what to do. They become hostage to their own feelings and circumstance.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Popsicle

January 12, 2015

People won't like to hear my opinion on this, but there are always the people who say "I will never cheat" and then the people who do cheat and then say "I never thought I would be a person who would cheat". Really. What does that say?

To me it says that it is great to say "I will never cheat", but a significant number of people who say that (as well as many who never say that) DO cheat, because they haven't yet met the circumstance that leads them to it.

I think that people who say they will never cheat may in fact never had been in the situation in which they would. Many posts here prove that. Some people won't, in the same situation, although it's still no guarantee that they won't ever cheat. Only time is the guarantee, and only death is the measure of the end.

January 12, 2015

People won't like to hear my opinion on this, but there are always the people who say "I will never cheat" and then the people who do cheat and then say "I never thought I would be a person who would cheat". Really. What does that say?

To me it says that it is great to say "I will never cheat", but a significant number of people who say that (as well as many who never say that) DO cheat, because they haven't yet met the circumstance that leads them to it.

I think that people who say they will never cheat may in fact never had been in the situation in which they would. Many posts here prove that. Some people won't, in the same situation, although it's still no guarantee that they won't ever cheat. Only time is the guarantee, and only death is the measure of the end.

I agree with this as it pertains to simply cheating.. Especially or men.. They simply might not have the opportunity. By cheating I mean a kiss, online cheating, a one night stand, drunken sex, etc.

More or less I am referring to longer affairs, in which the participant basically leads a second life.. They get so caught up in emotions/fantasy/feeling good that they are willing to lose their kids, husband, friends, extended family etc.

I can't believe everyone is that, or can be that irresponsible/conniving/selfish. But maybe so.. I am not sure..

January 12, 2015

Obviously when you decide to marry, both spouses know, or will communicate to each other that cheating is wrong.. You do not marry a woman who might say "Well, if romance slips a bit i will start having affairs"

In my own situation, and while reading these threads, it seems there is an enormous amount of blame shifting taking place.. The cheater never seemingly wants to admit fault..

I look back and I also had the same reasons to cheat or date while being married.. Lack of sex, arguments, fights, etc.. I am sure I could have found a woman who wanted to have a purely sexual relationships that was just sex, fun and exchanging niceties.

Do cheating spouses actually realize what they are doing is just a fantasy? Do they realize how them and their affair partner have an unfair advantage over the relationship they are in?

I read so many threads on here how their new affair partner is just better, they wish they met them earlier, they wish they married them etc. Can people really be this short sighted? Do they not realize they are having a fake relationship with only the good parts of a relationship?

I don't understand it either. I wish there is an ideal answer to solve this age old riddle "why do spouses cheat"?

I personally believe there are degrees of cheaters as there are degrees of cheating. But in the end it has the same conclusion, "you cheated therefore you are a cheater". It is a choice and never your only option.

As for it being a character flaw? Perhaps. Do good people cheat? Do bad people? Humans cheat and I believe how you handle your infidelity ultimately determines your character in the end.

I'm sure if there was a law against cheating it would be judged (like murder) in degrees. Then sentenced accordingly. I think the consequences map out the same according to the degree.

**** Do they not realize they are having a fake relationship with only the good parts of a relationship?

I believe many do and why they keep it hidden. APs are not dumb they know what the difference is. It's when the A is exposed and/or they are faced with reality/consequences they justify (blame shift) and because that process is so hard/devastating that fantasy becomes that much more alluring. Some refuse to face reality and run back to it.

Again... There is no definitive answer.

January 12, 2015

Yes.

There is no excuse for cheating.

Cheaters cheat because they choose to and because they can.

Cheaters cheat because they are selfish, have poor boundaries, poor communication skills and poor coping mechanisms. This is coupled with an attitude of entitlement and an inability to take responsibility for their own actions.

No-one can stop their Significant Other Person cheating. There is only one person's behaviour you can control, and that is your own.

January 12, 2015

During my post dday research, I have come across a few pearls of insight and i can recall two extremely relevant ones here:

It's a long journey to the first kiss, and a very short one to bed.

(I think that one belongs to the late Shirley Glass)

And this ominous one from the enigmatic and dynamic Esther Perel:

"It isn't so much we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become"

January 12, 2015

I do agree there is no excuse for cheating. However sometimes situations can lead to people finding themselves in a place where they really have no clue what to do. I`ve never been married but i have felt strong attraction to another girl whilst being in a happy fulfilling RS. For me it`s how you manage that, meaning question why and whats wrong with your RS which makes you feel this way. I am not talking about serial cheating, that for me does show very low morals and extreme cunning. I do not think it`s a moral weakness but rather do something before you act.

January 12, 2015

I won't - can't - cheat nor participate in cheating as the OW. If I had wanted to I could have 2 times already, once with a married guy and another time with someone who was in a LTR. It never even got into my mind to play that MM's OW, status married = non-available is what my brain seems to interpret automatically. As for the guy in a LTR, because of his looks I briefly thought about it and felt sick to my stomach. Cut contact shortly afterwards when the guy kept texting me.

I do think it's a mixture of how you're wired and circumstances. But no matter how tempting it is or vulnerable you are, you're always able to say no, even to a ONS.

January 12, 2015

This myth that everyone who cheats has some sort of defective character flaw is nonsense. All cheaters are not mentally flawed.

In today's society, unless you lock yourself in your house , you are going to have interactions with members of the opposite sex that you find attractive. At work, the gym, the store, it can happen anywhere.

he's there are some people who make the conscious decision to find an affair and sign up for something like Ashley Madison, but MOST affairs start by people putting themselves in situations where the temptation is more likely to occur.

Going out after work to bars without your spouse, vacations without your spouse, boys and girls night out , all put people in situations where they are more likely to make what many call a "mistake".

It's just a matter of percentages. The more times you are where you should not be the greater the chance, especially if you throw in alcohol, that you will screw up. And before all the comments like , "I go to clubs with my girlfriends all the time" and don't cheat start coming, that statement is made by 99% of those who wins up in infidelity.

No one is immune from crossing the line and if you think you are you are mistaken. And if you think your spouse is you are mistaken.

If your husband has this "need" to go out with the boys weekly to bars or strip clubs you need to find out why he feels this need. If your wife has this "need" to go out with her single and divorced friend to a club to "work the bar" and interact with men without you there, you need to find out why this need for this is there. Too many times what we hear is " I never thought my spouse would cheat". Well no **** . No one gets married thinking their spouse or partner will cheat. The time to work on stopping it it before it happens

January 12, 2015

It’s a combination of nurture and nature, IMO. People cheated from the time immemorial and will continue to do so…until we perish or evolve to hermaphrodites, may be. Generally, I think, it’s the same minor character flaws like vanity, selfishness, arrogance, addictiveness, timidity, lack of self-esteem, which we all have in various degrees that gets inflated depending upon the time and situation that leads us to cheat. But again, there are as many types of cheaters and excuses/reasons as cheaters themselves, so I have stopped thinking about “whys” nowadays.

One thing I know, I will never willingly cheat barring insanity, hypnotism (if it exists), at a gunpoint etc. It’s not because I have integrity made of hardened steel, it’s because I recognize that I’m fallible, so I have my boundaries and I won’t put myself in the position where I may cheat (getting drunk with friends of opposite sex, clubbing, making opposite sex sounding board while in committed relationship etc). After gaining the firsthand experience of how it feels to be cheated upon, I will also not participate or enable somebody else to cheat either.

January 12, 2015

Yes, it is a character flaw- and no, not everyone is capable of doing it- to cheat in a "affair" as you describe takes the ability to lie really well, the ability to compartmentalize, etc..

I think one reason my husband and I hit bumps in recovery is because he can compartmentalize well- he can put aside what he has done more easily while for me, I have a really difficult time doing it-

To cheat, you have to let go of your integrity-everyone says they won't cheat so when you cross the line you are breaking a promise to yourself-thats a flaw in your character for sure-

January 12, 2015

but MOST affairs start by people putting themselves in situations where the temptation is more likely to occur.

I think you may have a very good point there.

I also think that it is possible for people to have their views on cheating be turned, by opportunity.

Spending hours with a person at work or in social settings, coffee breaks, nights out, hobbies and interests, long in depth chats at work or on social media, being close in proximity to a person where there is a deep mutual physical attraction too, blurs the boundaries and once boundaries are blurred, I feel anything is possible. Add to that relationship issues, and certain personality traits, then it is a powder keg.

My personal problem re being open to cheating, is that I am a one man at a time sort of person and the thought of having sex with someone who is also having sex with someone else is offputting to say the least for me, so whilst I am not saying never, we can never say never, I think it is highly unlikely that I personally would cheat.

January 12, 2015

Exactly, StarGaze

One thing I know, I will never willingly cheat barring insanity, hypnotism (if it exists), at a gunpoint etc. It’s not because I have integrity made of hardened steel, it’s because I recognize that I’m fallible, so I have my boundaries and I won’t put myself in the position where I may cheat (getting drunk with friends of opposite sex, clubbing, making opposite sex sounding board while in committed relationship etc).

You have boundaries and awareness - two things that cheaters lack.

It's not actually being tempted that's wrong, it's the succumbing to temptation that's the issue.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Arieswoman

January 12, 2015

My own experience is that it is a little more complex.

I don't see infidelity as a flaw, I see monogamy as a strength. And I think the difference is night and day.

Between the years 17 and 30 I played the field. Really played the field. I never married. I never wanted to. I never felt I was ever with someone who I would promise to have and to hold until death do us part. This still being the case when I lived common law with a woman. I knew we would never last. Not about fault.

Then I made some life changing decisions, met a woman, and knew that this one was the one for me. I have remained faithful not only to her, but my feelings for her: this is about myself. I married her and agreed to have a child with her. 8 years later she entered into affair with a single male co-worker. But my faithfulness to MYSELF continues. I will never cheat.

So no, I don't think it is about a weakness or flaw, it is the absence of loyalty to oneself, in my opinion, that is the difference.

I don't think either, from your analysis below, that it has anything to do with strip clubs, nights out, drinking, or hot summer nights seeing woman and men in hot pants.

The vast majority of the kinds of affairs that most people who swear they never intended to cheat are work / co-worker related. I think affairs have a "better" chance for survival the more intimate that two people can be in an non intimate environment like the work place, causal encounters during soccer practice, closed small group private dinners that are repeated among a group of close friends... crises in family situations around death or a "cancer" etc.

This myth that everyone who cheats has some sort of defective character flaw is nonsense. All cheaters are not mentally flawed.
In today's society, unless you lock yourself in your house , you are going to have interactions with members of the opposite sex that you find attractive. At work, the gym, the store, it can happen anywhere.
he's there are some people who make the conscious decision to find an affair and sign up for something like Ashley Madison, but MOST affairs start by people putting themselves in situations where the temptation is more likely to occur.
Going out after work to bars without your spouse, vacations without your spouse, boys and girls night out , all put people in situations where they are more likely to make what many call a "mistake".
It's just a matter of percentages. The more times you are where you should not be the greater the chance, especially if you throw in alcohol, that you will screw up. And before all the comments like , "I go to clubs with my girlfriends all the time" and don't cheat start coming, that statement is made by 99% of those who wins up in infidelity.
No one is immune from crossing the line and if you think you are you are mistaken. And if you think your spouse is you are mistaken.
If your husband has this "need" to go out with the boys weekly to bars or strip clubs you need to find out why he feels this need. If your wife has this "need" to go out with her single and divorced friend to a club to "work the bar" and interact with men without you there, you need to find out why this need for this is there. Too many times what we hear is " I never thought my spouse would cheat". Well no **** . No one gets married thinking their spouse or partner will cheat. The time to work on stopping it it before it happens

Edited January 12, 2015 by fellini

January 12, 2015

Do cheating spouses actually realize what they are doing is just a fantasy?

The idea of marriage and monogamy is the real fantasy, as they are contrary to human nature, and intended as a (flawed) attempt to control human nature. Yes, monogamous marriage can work, and sometimes even work very well.

Affairs are sometimes a reality to escape the delusion of the fantasies of marriage.

Statistically, over half of all people will cheat on a partner in some relationship, and roughly 21% of all (give or take a few percent depending on gender) have or will cheat in their current relationship. Human nature is promiscuous. Monogamy is an artificial idea created to try to control natural tendencies to promote social order (and as such may become less necessary as other social changes occur).

January 12, 2015

Where do you get your stats from, Central?

January 12, 2015

I believe that almost every person is capable of doing almost anything under extreme circumstances. In regards to cheating though, I don't believe that everyone is capable of allowing their circumstances to degrade into what would constitute an extreme circumstance. Certain people would allow themselves to remain in a relationship that was unfulfilling and devoid of love and respect to the point where they could betray their partner to this extent.

Others (serial cheaters for example) just seem to have less of a conscience from what I can gather.

So in short, yes, I believe cheating is a character flaw of sorts or at least a serious personal failing, often compounded by an unsatisfying relationship or other unpleasant circumstances.

January 12, 2015

Where do you get your stats from, Central?

Most are from here:

Infidelity Statistics | Statistic Brain

January 12, 2015

I went through this, and have a close personal friend in an identical situation..

In both of our cases the woman left for another man, another man who was seemingly richer.. Both of us have children with these women that are 3 years old. And to clarify, my friend and I have very good incomes... Just not at the millionaire level..

Looking back, these women never loved us.. We were a vehicle to provide a certain life they wanted at the time.

I hate to think all attractive women , (women who have options), view life and "love" in this manner. At the end of the day it was like I never existed, the history of the relationship was rewritten, and more or less I was just someone in the way preventing them from finding real "love"

I am hoping all attractive women do not view life like this, but I am at a point in which it seems this might be a reality.. Not "all", but a fairly large amount.

Edited January 12, 2015 by clevelander321

January 12, 2015

No, monogamy and marriage are not fantasies. They are very real, as real as the two people who enter into a life together to try to make them work. Inasmuch as monogamy is not an effort, there is nothing unrealistic or fantasy about it. When monogamy proves to be an effort, the problem is not monogamy, it's the person faking monogamy, faking that they have found someone with whom to share their life force.

If there is anything artificial or unreal or fantasy about monogamy, I would point my finger only to the culture that surrounds it, the meanings that change over time about what that term means for a society. But the human idea of monogamy is actually, at least for me, a very fulfilling and worthwhile value to have. No illusions here. Monogamy has a social meaning, but like any other human activity, is also a practice in the everyday life of i dividas and couple - independent of the social institutions which claim to define it.

[XQUOTE=central;6103773]The idea of marriage and monogamy is the real fantasy, as they are contrary to human nature, and intended as a (flawed) attempt to control human nature. Yes, monogamous marriage can work, and sometimes even work very well.

Affairs are sometimes a reality to escape the delusion of the fantasies of marriage.

Statistically, over half of all people will cheat on a partner in some relationship, and roughly 21% of all (give or take a few percent depending on gender) have or will cheat in their current relationship. Human nature is promiscuous. Monogamy is an artificial idea created to try to control natural tendencies to promote social order (and as such may become less necessary as other social changes occur).

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Is an affair a character flaw? Or is everyone capable?

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