EC Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 So I have been reading this book called "If this is love then why am I so insecure?" and well I have been learning a lot. So far though I am confused because what I thought to be normal, they are calling romantic obsession and romantic anxiety..so Now I'm wondering whether I have these problems or if the DOCs are trying to just come up with reasons to everyday love problems? Some things out of the book that jumped out at me, things I saw in myself which I thought everyone had to deal with..Am I wrong? Does not everyone go through this? Please give me insight. An example of a story that I completely related with: I told Mike I had missed him and asked if he had missed me, but he brushed me off. I wanted to talk to him in bed, but he was too tired. He sometimes acts as though I'm just a piece of furniture. When we make love I feel like I'm the most important person alive, but other times I feel as if I'm in his way. When things are fine, he never calls me during the day. But when I finally blow up at him, he calls two or three times and comes home early. Sometimes I just don't want to see him. I want to make him hurt inside like he hurts me. But when this feeling is over I feel guilty also I can relate completely with this: If you get your sense of personal worth from a relationship, what happens when the relationship is taken away from you? Others cope with their insecurity by acting detached and self-sufficient in their relationships or even in turning away from romance altogether. They avoid what for them are the large risks of emotional involvement by not getting involved or running away. The more of a prize you think you have, the more likely you are to feel that you may lose it, and the more painful the loss will be. Isn't this normal of relationships or do I have a problem lol ???
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 It's unhealthy to derive your self-worth from your relationship. I'm not sure why you quoted the other things. The more of a prize you think you have, the more likely you are to feel that you may lose it, and the more painful the loss will be Well yeah. So what's wrong with that?
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 It's unhealthy to derive your self-worth from your relationship. I'm not sure why you quoted the other things. quote:The more of a prize you think you have, the more likely you are to feel that you may lose it, and the more painful the loss will be Well yeah. So what's wrong with that? well it goes on to say that because of how valuable you think your partner then the more anxious and obsessed you become and that thats a problem but I felt everyone felt that way?? Whats wrong with that is exactly what i was thinking. I dont know if this book is helping me or confusing me more?
tanbark813 Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by EC well it goes on to say that because of how valuable you think your partner then the more anxious and obsessed you become and that thats a problem but I felt everyone felt that way?? I know I feel that way, and I'm sure most people do as well. The flip side, though, is that to keep yourself from feeling that way you have to be with someone who you're not all that attracted to or think that much of. That way you don't care if they're with you or not. But then if that's the case, what's the point of being with them in the first place? I'd rather take the risk. It's more fun that way.
d'Arthez Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by EC well it goes on to say that because of how valuable you think your partner then the more anxious and obsessed you become and that thats a problem but I felt everyone felt that way?? Whats wrong with that is exactly what i was thinking. I dont know if this book is helping me or confusing me more? The more afraid you are of losing something or someone, the more likely it is you will lose it. Don't obsess about it, and live your life with that person. Tomorrow may never come for the both of you, so live in the present. With regards to the pains, that is fairly obvious. It is not a trick of balancing, or playing games, it is a "trick" of spirituality and simple openness. And a book on relationships will not help you with that.
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 well it goes on to say that because of how valuable you think your partner then the more anxious and obsessed you become and that thats a problem but I felt everyone felt that way?? Whats wrong with that is exactly what i was thinking. I dont know if this book is helping me or confusing me more? No. See, that you regard someone as precious and valuable and that you fear their loss does not mean you then become obsessed with the fear of loss. It means that you understand it's possible, but you don't allow it to possess you and make you nutso. You could be killed today in a car accident. It's a fairly high possibility, all things considered, since the chief cause of deaths in people under 40 (I think it's 40) is accidents. Now, you can know this and be careful but not go nuts, or you can wrap yourself in a pile of mattresses and a helmet and drive 20k. See the difference?
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 You could be killed today in a car accident. It's a fairly high possibility, all things considered, since the chief cause of deaths in people under 40 (I think it's 40) is accidents. Now, you can know this and be careful but not go nuts, or you can wrap yourself in a pile of mattresses and a helmet and drive 20k. See the difference? Gotcha! I guess I'm one of the people that allow it to possess me and I go nutso.. It also goes on to say that women with distant fathers and that grew up without fathers in their life (me) try to find their father in their relationships. Or a father figure? I grew up without my dad, with him just popping in once and a while but I never thought it would affect my love life but now I am realizing that in someways it is. Also the murder of my ex happened and I kind of bottled it up and never dealt with it and I wonder if that affects me now unconciously in my decisions and relationships? sorry I know you guys arent docs..I think I need one though after all the sh*t I have been through.
alphamale Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by EC Isn't this normal of relationships or do I have a problem lol ??? it is normal and you are normal EC. don't know your age but most older folk have been there and done that.
Lonestar Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by EC It also goes on to say that women with distant fathers and that grew up without fathers in their life (me) try to find their father in their relationships. Or a father figure? This is definitely normal. I think women who had wonderful father figures growing up are much more secure in their relationships with men. If it doesn't work out, they know daddy is always there to support them. For those of us whose fathers are evil or absent, we learned to continuously yearn for our father's love or we learned that being treated like crap is okay, because that's how daddy loved us. Our father was our god when we were little girls, so our relationships with men will forever be affected by that one most important male/female interaction. I envy women who have loving fathers.
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 This is definitely normal. I think women who had wonderful father figures growing up are much more secure in their relationships with men. If it doesn't work out, they know daddy is always there to support them. For those of us whose fathers are evil or absent, we learned to continuously yearn for our father's love or we learned that being treated like crap is okay, because that's how daddy loved us. Our father was our god when we were little girls, so our relationships with men will forever be affected by that one most important male/female interaction. I envy women who have loving fathers. I completelty agree. I remember when I was younger..dad was god. He wasn't there all the time but when he was nothing could make me happier. HMMMM...could that be the reason why EVERY SINGLE relationship I have ever had in my life...3 lol..Have been long distance???
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 Some women 'create' an inconsistent partner. One way of creating an inconsistent partner is to give too much of oneself that one is inevitably disdsapointed with what the partner give in return. One feels a lack of reciprocity, not because the partner gives too little, but because one's own level of commitment is so unrealistically high as to leave one open to frustration and feelings of rejection. One's perception of the partner as inconsistent thus stems from a need for very strong and clear expressions of affection that no partner can consistently provide. This problem I have! And I fear I will lose someone I love so much because of this. He has told me time and time again "What else do you want me to do??" "How else do you want me to show you?" "Please tell me because i am running out of ideas" These are things my bf has said to me and I'm afraid he will get tired of it, but I can't help feeling this way.
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Lonestar This is definitely normal. I think women who had wonderful father figures growing up are much more secure in their relationships with men. If it doesn't work out, they know daddy is always there to support them. For those of us whose fathers are evil or absent, we learned to continuously yearn for our father's love or we learned that being treated like crap is okay, because that's how daddy loved us. Our father was our god when we were little girls, so our relationships with men will forever be affected by that one most important male/female interaction. I envy women who have loving fathers. I disagree with this idea. I think it's a cop out. I have the best Dad anyone could ever want. Aside from his health problems in the last few years, when I was growing up he was a stay at home Dad (he retired when I was 8 and stayed home and took care of my sisters and I) - he woke us up with homemade breakfast, usually bacon and eggs. He had a thing about forcing us to eat breakfast every morning "most important meal of the day" stuff . He packed my lunches, and was there to pick me up or take me to the doctor when I needed to go. We had long philosophical conversations, and even now, as he is ill, we will sit there in silence and watch Fox news (even though I hate foxnews) and I lean my head on his shoulder. He taught me to be strong, and confident in myself as a person, and to know that I could handle anything. I am so secure in my Dad's love for me that it makes my friends sick. Now, that has made me very confident in how I look, I always feel relatively beautiful and I know how to turn on my "high beams" and make someone attracted to me. But I am insecure as ALL HELL in relationships.
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by EC This problem I have! And I fear I will lose someone I love so much because of this. He has told me time and time again "What else do you want me to do??" "How else do you want me to show you?" "Please tell me because i am running out of ideas" These are things my bf has said to me and I'm afraid he will get tired of it, but I can't help feeling this way. THIS is my problem. I give to get, and have unrealistically high expectations for what returns I can expect. I am a giver to the extreme. I make his favorite meals, rub feet, give great backrubs (well I went to f*cking massage school, for chrissake), I take care of them when they are sick, I buy them presents and give them money when they need it. I don't push or criticize until I am at my wit's end. THEN -- I explode. And that's a scarey sight to see. But I have heard time and time again "Nothing I ever do is good enough for you". The ironic part is that -- as much as I am critical of them, I am even more critical of myself. THAT I got from my insane mother.
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 I guess I'm one of the people that allow it to possess me and I go nutso.. I noticed It also goes on to say that women with distant fathers and that grew up without fathers in their life (me) try to find their father in their relationships. Or a father figure? More like they can be desperate to win male love and approval. Also the murder of my ex happened and I kind of bottled it up and never dealt with it and I wonder if that affects me now unconciously in my decisions and relationships? It certainly could. It was an unexpected and traumatic loss - probably sensitized you much more to loss than most folks would be. You should go see someone to deal with this. Trauma can wreak havoc on you. But I have heard time and time again "Nothing I ever do is good enough for you". BO, maybe you have a great dad, but you've been raped AND had an 'insane mother' and those things certainly affect people.
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 I haven't been raped but I have been held hostage and I too have an insane mother lol oh the drama THIS is my problem. I give to get, and have unrealistically high expectations for what returns I can expect. I am a giver to the extreme. I make his favorite meals, rub feet, give great backrubs (well I went to f*cking massage school, for chrissake), I take care of them when they are sick, I buy them presents and give them money when they need it. I don't push or criticize until I am at my wit's end. THEN -- I explode. And that's a scarey sight to see. But I have heard time and time again "Nothing I ever do is good enough for you". Same here..I give and give and give...and They give to but I just feel as if it just isn't enough??? And then I flip on them and they think I'm psycho B*tch EC lmao..
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme BO, maybe you have a great dad, but you've been raped AND had an 'insane mother' and those things certainly affect people. Yeah maybe I should clarify -- I mean more like, not having a Dad is an oversimplification. I know that every 4 minutes a woman is raped or sexually assaulted in the states. This means that the rates of women who have experienced sexual violence are astronomically high. I think it has more to do with that than anything else. In therapy I once said, that I have been a sex object for men since I can remember, since I was 4 eyars old, when I was molested. And this effects my relationships and how I see myself in interactions with men. I am comfortable being sexualized. Uncomfortable being respected and being in that mutual teamwork relationship dynamic. You seek what you are comfortable with. So I guess the secret is...find out the dysfunctional way that you are comfortable being/interacting in, and try to alter that behavioral interaction.
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 You seek what you are comfortable with. So I guess the secret is...find out the dysfunctional way that you are comfortable being/interacting in, and try to alter that behavioral interaction. and as crazy as that sounds it makes sense lol
Lonestar Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter I disagree with this idea. I think it's a cop out. I have the best Dad anyone could ever want. Aside from his health problems in the last few years, when I was growing up he was a stay at home Dad (he retired when I was 8 and stayed home and took care of my sisters and I) - he woke us up with homemade breakfast, usually bacon and eggs. He had a thing about forcing us to eat breakfast every morning "most important meal of the day" stuff . He packed my lunches, and was there to pick me up or take me to the doctor when I needed to go. We had long philosophical conversations, and even now, as he is ill, we will sit there in silence and watch Fox news (even though I hate foxnews) and I lean my head on his shoulder. He taught me to be strong, and confident in myself as a person, and to know that I could handle anything. I am so secure in my Dad's love for me that it makes my friends sick. Now, that has made me very confident in how I look, I always feel relatively beautiful and I know how to turn on my "high beams" and make someone attracted to me. But I am insecure as ALL HELL in relationships. I'm not quite so sure how you can say that's a cop out. If you're saying that it's too simple to blame relationship problems simply on the fact of someone not having a dad, then I'll agree with you. Many women don't have fathers either by death or illness and they do just fine, but there are the women whose fathers have abandoned them either emotionally or phsyically, or abused them, etc. A good majority of those women, myself included, continue to look for daddy's approval and love through the men they love, who usually have many of the same traits as their father - such as being emotionally unavailable. I also believe that these types of women will stay in such relationships much longer than a woman who had a good father figure, because they were taught by the most important man in their life, and at such a young age, that love hurts. There are many other things that can make a women insecure in relationships, such as the rape you suffered and the behavior of your mother that was mentioned above. I can honestly understand how a rape can kill your faith in men for life, but just because you had a good father and you're still insecure, doesn't discount the reality that girls hearts are affected to a huge degree by their fathers. It's not a cop out, and I can't even begin to tell you how much it destroyed my heart to accept that my father doesn't love me, and remember all the horrible things he's done. You are lucky in that department, BO, so you'll never really understand how it can affect someone.
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Lonestar It's not a cop out, and I can't even begin to tell you how much it destroyed my heart to accept that my father doesn't love me, and remember all the horrible things he's done. You are lucky in that department, BO, so you'll never really understand how it can affect someone. I clarified and said it was an oversimplification. I never blame anything just on being raped or just on my mother, because there is a lot more to it than that. If I had had proper treatment right after being raped the issues wouldn't effect me the same way. Having my Dad there to buffer my crazy mom helped, but he should have put her in her place more. What I'm saying is you can't make blanket statements like that, or blame your personal difficulties on just one thing. It's a domino effect, one that can be halted at any point in the cascade -- thus, just because you have no father doesn't give you "daddy issues". My mother was severely physically abused by her dad. Instead of having issues with men, she has issues with women, and can't express love normally to her own children. Other women go on to have successful lives and interpersonal relationships. Correlation does not equal causation, to borrow an often used phrase in psychological research. My best friend grew up without a Dad. Both of them did, actually. My own father grew up without his Dad, and my Mom's Dad had 3 other wives besides her mother. I have personal experience, so you can't tell me I'll never really understand (unless one must have personal experience to understand anything, and then we're all f*cked, especially when it comes to quantum physics) -- my bestfriend is a stripper because of her lack of a father figure, as far as I can see it, and it is a shame. But again, IMO, it's a cascade that can be halted at any point. To say it's a daddy issue is defeatist. Just like me blaming my craziness on just one thing is oversimplification and defeatist as well. I know I can attend to my issues, part of that happens to involve acknowledging their complexity.
tanbark813 Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Lonestar and BO: I think both of you have valid arguments but I just wanted to add in that from my own personal experience, of the girls I've been with, there was a direct correlation between the quality of their relationship with their father and the ability of us to maintain a stable relationship. One isn't going to necessarily cause the other automatically, of course, but I think when girls have a good father-daughter relationship, it's more likely that they'll believe that you're not out to f*ck them over. I agree that blanket statements should be avoided as much as possible, but I do think there is something to be said for the observed trend.
moimeme Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 I think when girls have a good father-daughter relationship, it's more likely that they'll believe that you're not out to f*ck them over. Interesting theory!
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 Well I just think everyone is out to F*ck me over so whose fault is that?
tanbark813 Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by EC Well I just think everyone is out to F*ck me over so whose fault is that? Mary Jane's, I would imagine.
Author EC Posted March 28, 2005 Author Posted March 28, 2005 Mary Jane's, I would imagine. that hooch!
clynn Posted March 29, 2005 Posted March 29, 2005 Good getting both sides of the story here. Yah, I don't like blaming a failed relationships on a troubled childhood. (to sum it up - a nasty step dad, a mostly absent father and an overcompensating overprotecitive mother). Yah, I know. Boo, hoo. But here I am face to face recognizing I'm not comfortable with intimacy and thinking, hmmmmmmmm. .. . .. . it isn't exactly doing me any good NOT recognizing it either? SO , yah... " I think when girls have a good father-daughter relationship, it's more likely that they'll believe that you're not out to f*ck them over.... " Gotta admit I can't help but exhibit this with the fellas I date. At least if I like them. When I'm interested and attracted, I'm anxious and stressed out. So I tend to date people I like but am not that interested in really. It doesn't challenge me out of my comfort zone, but it also isn't interesting or compelling enough to last.
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