Girls earns more than guy, but by not that much. Problem?

[willylilly]

Hello LoveShack,

 

Last night, me and my girlfriend disclosed each other's salary. This thread is not about why we did it. I respect a girl's wishes on wanting to know whether the guy can give her the life and future she desires. That's fine by me.

 

Brief summary: In a relationship for 9 months. Each month has made it progressively better. Looks very compatible. Same industry, same outlook in life. Essentially, great relationship.

 

I'll add the background later. First, the numbers:

 

Me - USD$76,000. Her - USD$100,000

 

Yup, the obvious is out. I earn less than her. Please let me add some context and background before I ask the ladies input. And please be honest, cruel to be kind.

 

1. She has 2 more years of working experience.

2. My company had a bad year and bonuses took a hit.

The following two could be cushions to make up for the deficit.

3. I am no slouch and am equally driven, ie Ivy league grad and applied to MBA. In other words, I am not being slack about the matter.

4. I am kindda in a transition phase and recently had interviews for job with higher pay.

 

Ladies, what you think? The deficit can be dismissed given 1 to 4. Or, as much as the girl says it is not an issue, deep down, it really is. My greatest fear is she suppressing a truth that will soon resurface.

 

Finally, I am on track to fix this, if it even needs fixing. I set myself a target of 2 months to do something, ie part time work, to make up for the deficit. I have yet to lose my composure and confidence. I'm still at a state why I'm quite satisfied with my life's trajectory and it's one that will eventually be to my and her liking.

 

I didn't want to ask my lady friends in person because they probably do not want to expose their demanding side by saying it's okay. Ladies here, I won't meet you, thus honesty please.

 

Thank you,

WillyLilly

Edited January 9, 2015 by willylilly

[Gaeta]

Most men I dated made less than me, sometimes a lot less than me. I do not care.

 

In your situation you are both making a good living. The fact she is making more than you is irrelevant at that level of income. It's like someone coming on here saying I make 350K a year and she makes 400K, I don't feel like a man enough, ridiculous.

[BluEyeL]

I don't think your difference in income is that significant. And you will not be static in your career. It's OK for her for sure, maybe less OK with you, as I can see.

 

I had this problem in my marriage, my ex always made less than me and he was really bothered by it. It ultimately was a big factor in the demise of our marriage, he always felt less for that reason (and for being less successful in general) and couldn't stand it.

 

It is only now that I understand how he felt. I also make low six figures and I always made more than people I dated (or roughly equal). My now BF makes 6 times more than me, and if I am to be honest, even as a woman, it poses a bit of an issue with me, it does make me feel a bit less and I'm really not used to it. I wish I didn't know how much he makes.

 

Overall, in my experience, disparity in income sucks for the person making less, doesn't matter for the person making more. It was really OK with me when I was making more and I had a hard time understanding what his problem was. So if I were you (and I am you, excpet I'm a girl so less pressure for me), I'd work on myself not being bothered by it. And again your disparity is really small.

[willylilly]

Thanks Gaeta.

 

Yup, I am aware me and her as individuals are already above the average by quite a bit. Thanks for the encouragement. I just wanted an opinion whether my salary just being lower than her will become an annoyance to her.

 

Now it isn't. She was loving upon hearing the news. I just want to take caution that months down the line, the truth can no longer be held down by her liking for me, which is the guy is simply earning less than her perhaps hinting her not respecting herself enough to date a better guy. Yup, my reasoning could be nonsense so ladies, please comment?

 

Oh yeah. I forget to add. While obvious, the numbers are annual salaries.

[BikerAccnt]

Shouldn't matter, as long as you are contributing.

 

 

On a side note....can I have one of your salaries...either one, I'm not picky.

[willylilly]

I don't think your difference in income is that significant. And you will not be static in your career.

 

BluEyeL, at least me AND her both agree on this. Because I'm in a more volatile industry, she confidently feels my career will likely swing higher than hers in the future.

 

Overall, in my experience, disparity in income sucks for the person making less, doesn't matter for the person making more. It was really OK with me when I was making more and I had a hard time understanding what his problem was.

 

Also yes, I'm getting a little confused as to whether I'm raising this up because I'm worried about how she feels or because I myself am taking issue with it. To be honest, I feel that she's less of my girlfriend because I also thought for the guy to provide for his girlfriend, like what a boyfriend should do, he has to earn more.

 

You saying that you were "really OK" adds gives some comfort in my situation. We could, if you don't mind, go into the question on whether she would respect me less because I earn that much less.

 

My quick take: The girl needs to find something in the guy to respect him for. I hope my negative -$24,000 is compensated by my drive to go further, my work ethic and my caring of family.

[BluEyeL]

BluEyeL, at least me AND her both agree on this. Because I'm in a more volatile industry, she confidently feels my career will likely swing higher than hers in the future.

 

 

 

Also yes, I'm getting a little confused as to whether I'm raising this up because I'm worried about how she feels or because I myself am taking issue with it. To be honest, I feel that she's less of my girlfriend because I also thought for the guy to provide for his girlfriend, like what a boyfriend should do, he has to earn more.

 

You saying that you were "really OK" adds gives some comfort in my situation. We could, if you don't mind, go into the question on whether she would respect me less because I earn that much less.

 

My quick take: The girl needs to find something in the guy to respect him for. I hope my negative -$24,000 is compensated by my drive to go further, my work ethic and my caring of family.

 

I really think that you contribute very well with that income level and you should just control your own insecurity around this. I am really sure she doesn't respect you less. I never respected my ex less because of his income, because he was working hard and making a contribution, he was smart etc.

 

Ultimately, you need to know that you're an worthy person, you're doing your best, and don't let your ego stand in the way of a great relationship. Women make money now and times changed. Try to adapt.

[elaine567]

It will only become an annoyance to her, if you make an issue of it.

If you whinge and complain about your salary, if you keep bringing the disparity up, even in so called jest, if you start to resent her, if you start the "its not fair" conversation.

 

if you keep bringing money up and start to suggest she pays for more joint stuff, ie she needs to always take you out for meals, for instance... then she will get annoyed.

Also if you decided that she is now the big earner in the partnership, and that means you can deliberately fiddle about in low paid jobs with no ambition, then that will start to annoy. As long as you are serious in your attempt to work and provide she will be happy even if you were only earning $25000.

 

If this is a potential LTR, then her earning capacity being high is a great thing, because good money going into the pot will benefit you both.

[willylilly]

It will only become an annoyance to her, if you make an issue of it.

If you whinge and complain about your salary, if you keep bringing the disparity up, even in so called jest, if you start to resent her, if you start the "its not fair" conversation.

 

if you keep bringing money up and start to suggest she pays for more joint stuff, ie she needs to always take you out for meals, for instance... then she will get annoyed.

Also if you decided that she is now the big earner in the partnership, and that means you can deliberately fiddle about in low paid jobs with no ambition, then that will start to annoy.

 

Thanks Elaine for the input. While I appreciate your sincerity, I am probably mistaken when I say your reply seemed to get more rhetorical the more I read.

 

Yes, I am aware of the dangers of making something out of it while it is nothing. I hope this wouldn't happen. Thanks for the reminder.

 

And no, I've always been paying for hotel stays and gifts while being shrewd with my finances. No, I NEVER ask her to pay but will accept her offer to pay which she does about a quarter of our meals, big or small. And definitely no, I will never fiddle with low paid jobs with no ambition. I thought this last one was intentionally rhetorical. Haha.

[Mrin]

A few thoughts on this:

 

1. You are really insecure about this.

 

2. Almost competitive with her. Like it is a race or a game. Are you competitive with her on other fronts? Not sure this is a healthy thing to be competitive about.

 

3. You sound young so 2 years seniority in the work force (which is what she has) is what? 25% to 50% of your entire post graduate career? So ya, she's been working a LOT longer than you so ya, she is probably further along in her career.

 

4. Why is it a big deal that she makes more than you? Is it because she's female? I mean, she has more experience and in the same field. So ya, she should make more than you. And she might be better than you or more attractive from a managerial or promotions perspective. Oh well. You might be dating the next Marissa Mayer. Get used to it.

 

5. Look, I'll try to stretch my imagination and come up with some way to feel your anxiety. Okay, boom. I did it. It goes a little something like "you worry that one day she will wake up and deem you unworthy and will go off to find a better provider/man". Ya, I get it. You hear about those stories. But they usually happen for a couple of reasons:

 

- Lack of Ambition: Some women will tire of a man who doesn't have ambition. Especially if she does. Doesn't sound like that is the issue here Mr. Type A Ivy League MBA applying guy. ;-)

 

- Musician/Artist/Cannot Provide Syndrome: The other thing you see is when a woman will leave a man because he cannot provide. This is especially true if the woman is a high earner and thus is accustomed to a decent quality of life. This is when she wants to have a baby and take some time off to be a stay at home mother but she's the primary or sole bread winner. So she can't. And she builds up resentment towards the guy because he has chosen a career where he doesn't earn enough to provide for the family on his own. It is akin to a guy who wants kids leaving a woman who doesn't or can't.

 

Again, I don't think you have to worry about that here. You're making a good income and will continue to do so.

 

6. In the end, the only thing you really have to worry about is your worrying about this. That is to say your insecurities about the relative difference in incomes. She will start to feel guilty about making more because of your insecurities. What was once a source of pride for her will become a source of guilt. She will end up resenting her successes and eventually you. So stop it. Insecurity in a man is not attractive.

 

Best of luck!

 

Mrin

Edited January 9, 2015 by Mrin

[willylilly]

Mrin, I appreciate your reply. It seemed to be intentionally structured to have the negative points beautifully transitioned to the positive points. Nice!

 

Regarding other issues, I'll be very quick to say that I am NOT an insecure person. I never do the checking on her, restraining her, asking her where she is, blah blah blah crap.

 

For once in my life, there may be some truth when I say I am insecure in this matter. You made me contemplate on that for a bit.

 

Quite spot on with your numbers too. I've worked for three years, she five. Both of us tech related, one on the tech the other on the business.

 

What's good is that your point 5 correctly describes where I stand. I've applied but will know by March so keeping fingers crossed.

 

Thank you for your comments. Yup, me worrying about worrying about this could lead to something bad. No no and no.

[d0nnivain]

It's not a huge gap, relatively speaking.

 

 

Salaries change. If her company has a bad year, you could make more.

 

 

When we met, my husband was still in school & woefully under employed I made substantially more than him. It was a non issue. Over the last few years he has earned more.

 

 

Money does tend to make people a bit nutty.

 

 

Instead of assuming she thinks less of you celebrate the fact that you have the kind of relationship where you can talk about these very intimate things. Many times it's harder to talk about money than sex.

[BlueIris]

Money does tend to make people a bit nutty.

 

Oh, man, that's the truth!

 

I completely agree with Mrin.

 

I’ll add a couple more reasons to those Mrin stated in #5, more an issue down the road.

- he is a sourpuss about her success, can’t cheer for her, jealous

- he’s not an equal partner at home (ex. Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s husband, a noted tax attorney and very successful, did all the cooking)

 

Relative income seems to be much less important in the under-35 crowd than it was and is in my generation, over-50. My experience has been that the men I had LTRs with cared much more than I did, whether they made much more or much less. I can honestly say that I don’t care. So long as we both work and enjoy our jobs, are a true team, it’s okay with me if my S.O. doesn’t make as much money as I do.

 

Mary Matalyn once said of James Carville that he is a “foxhole guy”- reliable, ALWAYS has your back no matter what comes. That’s pure gold there.

[willylilly]

Many times it's harder to talk about money than sex.

 

Quickly, why is it exactly? The only reason I can think of is that the guy is not happy, or is not proud of his numbers.

 

I must say that when I told her mine, with a small inkling at that time that it would be lower than hers, I did so convincingly as I was happy with them are their trajectory.

[TabbyHearts]

Income issues usually only matter when:

 

1) for whatever notion already in their head, the person who makes less feels inferior

 

2) it dramatically affects the lifestyles you both try to lead, sometimes making you incompatible.

 

A 25k a year difference at that salary level, when it all comes down to it, is not I bet that huge of a difference in your lifestyles. If she made 100K and you made 40K, you might run into trouble if she loved to take expensive trips and go out to eat a lot and you just couldn't afford it.

 

The 100K and 40K is a real scenario from my actual dating life. I make the 1st figure and my ex makes the 2nd, and he always felt like a 'lesser man'. With the last guy I dated, he always went on about how much money he makes, which turned me off. The fact is I know his job and his industry well and I know he makes less than me, but I just let him blow his own horn

[Moy]

Can you pay the bills?

 

Can you treat each other and yourselves?

 

If yes, then there is no issue!

[BlueIris]

Quickly, why is it exactly? The only reason I can think of is that the guy is not happy, or is not proud of his numbers.

 

I must say that when I told her mine, with a small inkling at that time that it would be lower than hers, I did so convincingly as I was happy with them are their trajectory.

 

Are you okay with it only so long as you believe that you will make more $ over time and either be equal or make more? That's the key. Can you be okay making less forever?

[willylilly]

Are you okay with it only so long as you believe that you will make more $ over time and either be equal or make more? That's the key. Can you be okay making less forever?

 

I know there's a very good chance I'll catch up with her within two years. And hence, I am okay.

 

I did not ask myself the question on whether I'll be okay with this if I'll make less than her forever. I agree it'll infer something about me. I rather that it'll not come to this. And I'm sure to do all I can to ensure this.

 

Also, I'm very sure that me making more money is 95% a function of me naturally advancing myself with or without her.

[d0nnivain]

Quickly, why is it exactly? The only reason I can think of is that the guy is not happy, or is not proud of his numbers.

 

I must say that when I told her mine, with a small inkling at that time that it would be lower than hers, I did so convincingly as I was happy with them are their trajectory.

 

 

In polite society people were taught it was crass to talk about money. It also used to be bad to talk about sex & illness. Think about the movie St. Elmo's Fire where the one character's mother always whispered the word cancer.

 

 

Sex is at least fun so people changed & we talk about it now.

 

 

There are still social taboos associated with money as evidenced by your concerns. Women are still taught that men won't find them attractive if they are successful. Men measure their self worth by their accomplishments, including their salaries. Together those two old conventions say that women earning more is a problem.

 

 

There are a whole bunch of books out there on this subject. Perhaps as an Ivy League grad you can consider it a sociology project & go read a few. You might get some insight.

 

 

As others have cautioned you, this should only be a problem if you make it one.

[Mrin]

Off topic and probably worthy of a separate thread but...

 

Was chatting with my GF about this thread a few minutes ago and she pointed out the existence of another but related gap - the Happiness gap. It probably isn't terribly noticeable at the OP's age group but in my age range (late 30's - early 40's) you run into this gap. Where one person might be still happy and content with his/her career while the other is so miserable they are ready to toss the career into the shredder (and the accompanying income). Can certainly cause friction with both married and unmarried couples alike.

[willylilly]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm about to see my gf for a weekend stay at downtown. ( I'm paying for the hotel btw. Hehe ) I feel comforted and encouraged with each of your comments.

 

Each of our lives and our lives are blessed. And I really hope this difference of $25k, which may not even be there next year, won't dent our relationship.

 

Have a great weekend!

[A O]

I can't see a problem and it will become less of a problem over time.

[guest569]

I earn more than the guys i have recently dated. It's no problem whatsoever as long as they work and earn a living and can support themselves. It's a pretty healthy salary you've got there, absolutely no need to feel uncomfortable about the gap.

[JuneJulySeptember]

That's not significant at all.

 

If she made $150,000, it'd be more significant, but you'd still make a decent amount.

 

The only time it matters IMO is when one party's salary controls/dictates the standard of living (which you guys aren't even married).

 

In your given example, it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

In my example, you could buy a bigger house maybe based on her salary, but your salary would still be very important to the household and she would not dictate your standard of living.

 

HOWEVER. If she made $200,000 and you made 40K, or she made all of the income, then she sets the standard of living for you guys. That could be problematic and to be quite honest would make me feel emasculated. Not just because I'm a man either.

 

BTW, there's lots of guys going for sugar mommas these days. Being stay at home dads or sitting on their arse living off their wife.

Edited January 10, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[JuneJulySeptember]

Income issues usually only matter when:

 

1) for whatever notion already in their head, the person who makes less feels inferior

 

2) it dramatically affects the lifestyles you both try to lead, sometimes making you incompatible.

 

A 25k a year difference at that salary level, when it all comes down to it, is not I bet that huge of a difference in your lifestyles. If she made 100K and you made 40K, you might run into trouble if she loved to take expensive trips and go out to eat a lot and you just couldn't afford it.

 

The 100K and 40K is a real scenario from my actual dating life. I make the 1st figure and my ex makes the 2nd, and he always felt like a 'lesser man'. With the last guy I dated, he always went on about how much money he makes, which turned me off. The fact is I know his job and his industry well and I know he makes less than me, but I just let him blow his own horn

 

Yep, my point exactly.

 

Actually, one of the few things I do screen in women is those that make too much more $ than me. I don't make as much as you, but I make more than your ex.

 

I think when you are dependent on another person to provide for your lifestyle, it's a very tenuous situation and too much power/control is swung in one direction.

 

I think it is a good idea to have two parties who make roughly ballpark salaries. But even 50K and 100K is somewhat still in the same ballpark. It's not like that difference controls a lifestyle.