Honestly, why not confess?

[goodyblue]

Really...you dare compare a single mother stealing to feed her child..to you choosing to have a A and lying.deceiving and betraying your husband..becaused you resented him.....and Now you want to talk to him...

 

How about talking to him BEFORE you went on you F FEST with another man...

Godalmighty ..the excuses and justifactions many WSs come up with still astound me..But I will say this your post IMHO is spoken like a true WW..

 

I don't think she was necessarily comparing the severety of the two, i think she was making a point, but I do agree that they are not the same.

 

I do think that your response was a kneejerk reaction though. You clearly understood the point she was trying to make

[nightmare01]

My feeling is that the choice to NOT confess is an entirely narcissistic one.. bordering on sociopathic. LYING (which is what not confessing amounts to) is all about control. If you control what another person knows, you control what choices that person makes.

 

A WS that does not confess wants - well the old saying - to have their cake and eat it too. They had their fun (or are continuing to have it) and they want to keep the benefits they get from their marriage coming. They want the stability of their marriage and they want their little fun on the side. To make that happen they physically and emotionally abuse their BS.

 

Does confessing mean the WS has to wear the hair shirt and scarlet A forever? No.

 

If you have any respect for your BS then stop treating them like your personal puppet on a string. Tell the truth and accept the consequences. Work through the pain - help your BS as much as you can, and work on yourself.

 

For some BS's an affair is a deal breaker, and divorce is likely. Any WS knows this from before the start of the affair, it's a possible consequence. If that's the way it goes then accept it gracefully - but still work on yourself so you are not in this position again.

 

For many BS's - maybe even most - we want to keep our marriage together. We still love you - regardless of what you have done. If this is the case work your ass off to win your BS back, work on yourself and root through whatever it was inside you that allowed you to give yourself permission to hurt the one person you swore above all others to love and protect. Work on regaining trust. Be moral and ethical and tell the truth. You CAN win back your BS, but it will take time and effort - not just on your part, but the bulk of the work will be done by your BS. Above all, respect them for the strength it takes to stay with you.

Edited January 17, 2015 by nightmare01

[violet1]

Really...you dare compare a single mother stealing to feed her child..to you choosing to have a A and lying.deceiving and betraying your husband..becaused you resented him.....and Now you want to talk to him...

 

How about talking to him BEFORE you went on you F FEST with another man...

Godalmighty ..the excuses and justifactions many WSs come up with still astound me..But I will say this your post IMHO is spoken like a true WW..

I'm not comparing, but go ahead and twist my words. I understand certain behavior. It does NOT mean I condone it. Why don't you read my post again before you start shredding it apart. My H and I are in R. I'm so sick of people calling me a true WW. It's fine if you don't agree with me, but back off with the insults.

 

 

Bad Karma, you have proven me right that it's impossible for a FORMER cheater to say anything without being accused of supporting infidelity. If you are going to do that don't bother commenting on any of my posts!!!

[Confused48]

I'm not comparing, but go ahead and twist my words. I understand certain behavior. It does NOT mean I condone it. Why don't you read my post again before you start shredding it apart. My H and I are in R. I'm so sick of people calling me a true WW. It's fine if you don't agree with me, but back off with the insults.

 

 

Bad Karma, you have proven me right that it's impossible for a FORMER cheater to say anything without being accused of supporting infidelity. If you are going to do that don't bother commenting on any of my posts!!!

 

I'm sorry you have been mistreated here. I have said it before and say it agian, I very much value having repentant WS on this board. To hear their views is primarily why I am here myself. I see how they are mistreated and cringe. I applaude your courage to stay and post in the face of that mistreatment.

[violet1]

I don't think she was necessarily comparing the severety of the two, i think she was making a point, but I do agree that they are not the same.

 

I do think that your response was a kneejerk reaction though. You clearly understood point she was trying to make

 

 

Everyone here says there are other options than to cheat. I agree with that. I also agree that there are other options than to steal. There are always other options than to do something wrong, but it happens. All I'm saying is I understand why people make bad choices. I understand why people don't confess. It doesn't mean I condone it. I think understanding why people do what they do is the key. My H and I understand why I cheated and it's help with our recovery. There's no justification for I what I've done.

 

 

Thank you for at least understanding the point I was trying to make.

[badkarma2013]

I'm not comparing, but go ahead and twist my words. I understand certain behavior. It does NOT mean I condone it. Why don't you read my post again before you start shredding it apart. My H and I are in R. I'm so sick of people calling me a true WW. It's fine if you don't agree with me, but back off with the insults.

 

 

Bad Karma, you have proven me right that it's impossible for a FORMER cheater to say anything without being accused of supporting infidelity. If you are going to do that don't bother commenting on any of my posts!!!

 

Violet 1 ..hold up before nuking me...I should have taken a softer approach when making it personal...for that i am sorry...

 

Many BHs here (only using Bhs because i am one)....hate anything even close to minimizing the damage a WS causes by their choosing to have a A...Sometimes the Damage is soul crushing and and for a WS to make

 

any attempt ( or we perceive) to minimize what they have done ...we sometimes do go on the attack without regard to the damage we may cause to people like yourself...If you feel my words were unwarranted ..i again am sorry..

Edited January 17, 2015 by badkarma2013

[fellini]

There is a general issue in this forum of taking ANALOGIES and thinking they are COMPARISONS. This is a huge problem because it leads to the kind of attacks we see here... or accusations to say the least, or interpretations that someone is trying to diminish pain. I think analogies are extremely useful for expressing conceptual ideas about the complexity of infidelity. I think comparisons are impossible and actually, irrelevant. No one can know how to compare one BS's pain from another in order to compare it to some other facet of human activity.

 

Hopefully people can read examples "outside" infidelity as always an analogy to understand the logic one is going through and nothing more.

[badkarma2013]

There is a general issue in this forum of taking ANALOGIES and thinking they are COMPARISONS. This is a huge problem because it leads to the kind of attacks we see here... or accusations to say the least, or interpretations that someone is trying to diminish pain. I think analogies are extremely useful for expressing conceptual ideas about the complexity of infidelity. I think comparisons are impossible and actually, irrelevant. No one can know how to compare one BS's pain from another in order to compare it to some other facet of human activity.

 

Hopefully people can read examples "outside" infidelity as always an analogy to understand the logic one is going through and nothing more.

 

******************************************************************

 

Thank you for restoring order and at least giving some credibility to both points of view..... Sometimes I think I take on the persona of the Captain in the Vietnam War made the statement "WE had to burn the village down to save it"...For that i may come on a little strong ..so again i am sorry and will try to rethink before i lash out to others...

 

For the thousandth I have never been anti R....Just never seen it work much...but certianly do not have any malice with those who try...

[road]

All I'm saying is I understand why people make bad choices. I understand why people don't confess. It doesn't mean I condone it.

 

Thank you for at least understanding the point I was trying to make.

 

 

 

Understanding a WS's reasons to not confess:

 

 

First they are not reasons they are excuses to not confess.

 

 

Does not want to hurt their BS when in reality they are preventing themselves from facing consequences and pain.

 

 

Spare the AP's spouse from pain.

 

 

Save their public image and that of the other three spouses involved.

 

 

Not wanting to risk their marriage ending in divorce.

 

 

Children, shared custody, broken home, etc.

 

 

Career's ending, resigning job's. Lower standard of living. Retirement now will not be any where good as it was going to be.

 

 

Family house sold. Second home gone.

 

 

Avoid their own pain when confessing, answering BS's questions.

 

 

Avoid repairing the broken trust.

 

 

Avoid going NC with the AP when they are a neighbor, co-worker, friend, AP was BS's friend, relative.

 

 

Not confess to an affair to prevent the house from being sold because the BS needs to move faraway from the scene of the crime to prevent triggers. Avoid moving away from their family because the need for NC and removing triggers.

 

 

Notice how all of these reasons basically protect the WS. Yet at the same time force the BS to live a life based on a lie. At the same time removes all consequences for the WS and the AP.

 

 

While without knowledge of the affair it leaves the BS in the dark. So the BS can never make sure the WS does the work to affair proof the marriage, place personal boundaries to prevent behavior that leads to an affair, that the WS made atonements for the affair.

 

 

As said before the WS had the cake, ate it, and without consequences the WS will be tempted again to have an affair again.

[goodyblue]

Understanding a WS's reasons to not confess:

 

 

First they are not reasons they are excuses to not confess.

 

 

Does not want to hurt their BS when in reality they are preventing themselves from facing consequences and pain.

 

 

Spare the AP's spouse from pain.

 

 

Save their public image and that of the other three spouses involved.

 

 

Not wanting to risk their marriage ending in divorce.

 

 

Children, shared custody, broken home, etc.

 

 

Career's ending, resigning job's. Lower standard of living. Retirement now will not be any where good as it was going to be.

U

 

Family house sold. Second home gone.

 

 

Avoid their own pain when confessing, answering BS's questions.

 

 

Avoid repairing the broken trust.

 

 

Avoid going NC with the AP when they are a neighbor, co-worker, friend, AP was BS's friend, relative.

 

 

Not confess to an affair to prevent the house from being sold because the BS needs to move faraway from the scene of the crime to prevent triggers. Avoid moving away from their family because the need for NC and removing triggers.

 

 

Notice how all of these reasons basically protect the WS. Yet at the same time force the BS to live a life based on a lie. At the same time removes all consequences for the WS and the AP.

 

 

While without knowledge of the affair it leaves the BS in the dark. So the BS can never make sure the WS does the work to affair proof the marriage, place personal boundaries to prevent behavior that leads to an affair, that the WS made atonements for the affair.

 

As said before the WS had the cake, ate it, and without consequences the WS will be tempted again to have an affair again.

 

Not every WS needs to be treated like a petulant child in order to learn a lesson. Sometimes people make a mistake, learn from it, move on.

[fellini]

I don't agree with any of this. Taking for example the kind of affair my WS had none of this makes any sense whatsoever. Almost all of the "excuses" - and I think you are using the phrase excuses inaccurately here - are the kind of phrases that come about after dday, not before.

 

For example, what did my WS know about triggers and intrusions BEFORE or even in the middle of her A? nothing. All that comes out only after dday. So how can something that isn't even in the mind of a WS possible be an excuse for not confessing.

 

I'll tell you something else. My WS'S explanations about conducting an affair while married to me are completly consistent with those WS'S in here who had an A along the same lines, and who simply did not think about the BS at all. Call it compartmentalization, call it fog, call it selfishness, call it narcissistic, it doesn't matter, what is the common thread is that these WS'S didn't care, period. Now i can assure you that people talk about the cheater's bible: but the weird thing is my WS has never visited any Infidelity websites, read any books on the subject, nor spoken with other people about affairs, yet she somehow magically confers in her reasoning (faulty as it was) with other WS s who are 3000 km from her. Either all cheaters are telepathic or there is some substance to their explanations, because it's not possible my WS went to cheaters school and got the lesson on how to handle the fallout.

 

Perhaps the most important difference between a cheat and a safe partner is simply the difference in tolerance for self deception.

 

 

 

 

 

Understanding a WS's reasons to not confess:

 

 

First they are not reasons they are excuses to not confess.

 

 

Does not want to hurt their BS when in reality they are preventing themselves from facing consequences and pain.

 

 

Spare the AP's spouse from pain.

 

 

Save their public image and that of the other three spouses involved.

 

 

Not wanting to risk their marriage ending in divorce.

 

 

Children, shared custody, broken home, etc.

 

 

Career's ending, resigning job's. Lower standard of living. Retirement now will not be any where good as it was going to be.

 

 

Family house sold. Second home gone.

 

 

Avoid their own pain when confessing, answering BS's questions.

 

 

Avoid repairing the broken trust.

 

 

Avoid going NC with the AP when they are a neighbor, co-worker, friend, AP was BS's friend, relative.

 

 

Not confess to an affair to prevent the house from being sold because the BS needs to move faraway from the scene of the crime to prevent triggers. Avoid moving away from their family because the need for NC and removing triggers.

 

 

Notice how all of these reasons basically protect the WS. Yet at the same time force the BS to live a life based on a lie. At the same time removes all consequences for the WS and the AP.

 

 

While without knowledge of the affair it leaves the BS in the dark. So the BS can never make sure the WS does the work to affair proof the marriage, place personal boundaries to prevent behavior that leads to an affair, that the WS made atonements for the affair.

 

 

As said before the WS had the cake, ate it, and without consequences the WS will be tempted again to have an affair again.

Edited January 17, 2015 by fellini

[violet1]

Violet 1 ..hold up before nuking me...I should have taken a softer approach when making it personal...for that i am sorry...

 

Many BHs here (only using Bhs because i am one)....hate anything even close to minimizing the damage a WS causes by their choosing to have a A...Sometimes the Damage is soul crushing and and for a WS to make

 

any attempt ( or we perceive) to minimize what they have done ...we sometimes do go on the attack without regard to the damage we may cause to people like yourself...If you feel my words were unwarranted ..i again am sorry..

Thank you! I honestly wasn't trying to minimize any damage that I've personally caused to my H. It also wasn't my intentions to compare bad behavior. For *me and my H* understanding my poor behavior has helped us. It doesn't mean that we justify or condone what I've done. We try to understand it to help affair proof and repair our marriage. My sincere apologies if I came across as insensitive.

[road]

I don't agree with any of this. Taking for example the kind of affair my WS had none of this makes any sense whatsoever. Almost all of the "excuses" - and I think you are using the phrase excuses inaccurately here - are the kind of phrases that come about after dday, not before.

 

 

 

No just the way the WS makes excuses to justify having the affair.

 

 

I won't get caught.

 

 

My BS will never find out.

 

 

What my BS does not know won't hurt them.

 

 

The excuses before during and after are all another form of lying. The BS deserves to have the lying stop and have the truth.

[fellini]

No one questions that the WS lies. No one questions that the BS deserves to know the truth. But this is not what the thread is about.

 

It is about why not confess. And you posted a slew of "excuses" which made no sense to me because those "excuses" are discovered almost entirely post DDay, as I said. Now you offer up three quite legitmate "excuses"

 

But I still think you miss something. These are not EXCUSES to JUSTIFY having the affair, They are things WS's tell themselves about HOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT. Justifying having an affair is NOT the same thing as using self deception to get there.

 

I completely agree with you on 1 and a little on 2.

 

A WS tells him/herself s/he won't get caught. In fact, I agree with Glass on this. A WS having an EA and finally gets to that first kiss/make out / sexual encounter etc. goes home, maybe even starts to ask herself if she should have let things go that far, and sees that hubby, kids, life, is normal. They don't smell the sex on her. They don't notice the glow on her face. She got away with it. "So, hell, a little more won't hurt. I can always stop when..."

 

 

But my experience has been this:

My WW told herself that she can continue UNTIL she gets caught.

 

My WW, in fact, told me, that she and her AP talked about this, and as we have seen in LS a hundred times, and read in Glass, they even said "This is going to end badly."

 

Now this can be taken in several ways ("going to end badly between the two of us" - meaning, Im not leaving spouse if I have to choose between the two of you") but I took it and confirmed it to mean, "this is going to end badly if my husband or anyone from work finds out." In other words, knowing they are on a time bomb.

 

You see, my WS was in an EA for over a year before she had her first kiss. So as far as she could see, husband was not going to find out. If she planed her PA carefully, no one was going to be the wiser. And this is what many affairs are all about.

 

So I'd say that there are two essential ingredients in the logic of a WS:

 

1) Self deception about getting caught.

2) Delayed reflection: Ill cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

And this is very much supported by a host of WS's here and in the literature.

 

Given the choice of having an affair and having to lie to oneself about the consequences, the WS simply CANNOT bring him/herself to stop, and plunges forward KNOWING that this could at any minute end BADLY.

 

The contradictions that many here call "having cake" is for me something much more precise, at least in my case: It's about not asking yourself the fundamental questions about what you are doing because you KNOW the only solution is to stop, and since that is just NOT GOING TO BE AN OPTION the WS completely ignores those questions which do nothing but demonstrate the destructive and chaotic and irresponsible decisions they are making. They might even ask them of themselves once in a while. But they do nothing about the answers.

 

In my WW's case she had two people try to stop her with reason:

 

"Are you prepared to lose you husband, daughter, your marriage for this?" asked one. "I'm not prepared to give up AP" was the answer.

 

This is not someone who thinks her husband will find out, this is someone who is saying Ill cross that bridge when I get to it, but not before I have my thing.

 

In another, she went to her IC (work related depression) and told him about her EA ("not getting my needs met") and how she wanted to move forward into a PA. He told her to go home, talk to me, and demand to have her needs met, but maybe not a good idea to confess about her EA. Of course she did none of those things, because what she really wanted was her IC to give her "permission" to go all the way with her AP. And besides, not having needs met was a load of crap. She had no needs left back at home other than having a house husband take care of things, her AP by then quite clear about meeting all those supposed needs.

 

Self deception even in IC. Self deception even when her best friend is telling her her marriage is about to end. Self deception even when she asked her AP (who was himself a BH who lost his WW to her AP) how I was going to feel... and he told her, "you cannot imagine the pain this is going to cause - especially for your 8 year old daughter." Did any of this stop her? Of course not.

 

The only thing that allowed her to keep going was that bridge that she couldn't see in front of her nose.

 

 

No just the way the WS makes excuses to justify having the affair.

 

 

I won't get caught.

 

 

My BS will never find out.

 

 

What my BS does not know won't hurt them.

 

 

The excuses before during and after are all another form of lying. The BS deserves to have the lying stop and have the truth.

Edited January 19, 2015 by fellini

[violet1]

Understanding a WS's reasons to not confess:

 

 

First they are not reasons they are excuses to not confess.

 

 

Does not want to hurt their BS when in reality they are preventing themselves from facing consequences and pain.

 

 

Spare the AP's spouse from pain.

 

 

Save their public image and that of the other three spouses involved.

 

 

Not wanting to risk their marriage ending in divorce.

 

 

Children, shared custody, broken home, etc.

 

 

Career's ending, resigning job's. Lower standard of living. Retirement now will not be any where good as it was going to be.

 

 

Family house sold. Second home gone.

 

 

Avoid their own pain when confessing, answering BS's questions.

 

 

Avoid repairing the broken trust.

 

 

Avoid going NC with the AP when they are a neighbor, co-worker, friend, AP was BS's friend, relative.

 

 

Not confess to an affair to prevent the house from being sold because the BS needs to move faraway from the scene of the crime to prevent triggers. Avoid moving away from their family because the need for NC and removing triggers.

 

 

Notice how all of these reasons basically protect the WS. Yet at the same time force the BS to live a life based on a lie. At the same time removes all consequences for the WS and the AP.

 

 

While without knowledge of the affair it leaves the BS in the dark. So the BS can never make sure the WS does the work to affair proof the marriage, place personal boundaries to prevent behavior that leads to an affair, that the WS made atonements for the affair.

 

 

As said before the WS had the cake, ate it, and without consequences the WS will be tempted again to have an affair again.

Road, you are over analyzing things. Do you honestly think a WS thinks of all these little details? In general they don't. You may not like the answer, but most WS's do not confess because of fear. They don't know how the BS is going to react. They don't know what is going to happen with family and finances. Fear paralyzes us and prevents us from taking action. This is why I believe most cheaters (including myself) are cowards. It's scary to divorce, it's scary to confess.

[astralla]

You're right, a WS doesn't believe she'll get caught. I don't believe anyone will catch me, and my A will probably continue for sometime.

 

I think, without wishing to stir up a hornets nest, that one thing that hasn't really been said is that whilst the A is completely the responsibility of the person involved in it, it is not necessarily their fault, or not solely.

 

It takes 2 people to make a marriage work, and when it fails, for whatever reasons, it is the responsibility of both parties to work at it and get it back on track. When 1 party is not willing to work on it, or does not acknowledge a problem, it leaves the other to try and fix it on their own, to make the decision to divorce, to remain unhappy, or to find another way of coping. In my case I have found another way of coping by having an A. I acknowledge that this is my responsibility, and will accept the consequences of my actions if it comes to light. But my H also has to accept his responsibilities in the failings in the marriage, and he has refused to do that, despite me asking for counselling, trying to make him see the problems, and trying to solve them. I love him dearly, but our relationship is failing because of both of us, not just because of my A which, in all likelihood would not have happened if we had both worked together to solve our problems.

[purplesorrow]

You're right, a WS doesn't believe she'll get caught. I don't believe anyone will catch me, and my A will probably continue for sometime.

 

I think, without wishing to stir up a hornets nest, that one thing that hasn't really been said is that whilst the A is completely the responsibility of the person involved in it, it is not necessarily their fault, or not solely.

 

It takes 2 people to make a marriage work, and when it fails, for whatever reasons, it is the responsibility of both parties to work at it and get it back on track. When 1 party is not willing to work on it, or does not acknowledge a problem, it leaves the other to try and fix it on their own, to make the decision to divorce, to remain unhappy, or to find another way of coping. In my case I have found another way of coping by having an A. I acknowledge that this is my responsibility, and will accept the consequences of my actions if it comes to light. But my H also has to accept his responsibilities in the failings in the marriage, and he has refused to do that, despite me asking for counselling, trying to make him see the problems, and trying to solve them. I love him dearly, but our relationship is failing because of both of us, not just because of my A which, in all likelihood would not have happened if we had both worked together to solve our problems.

 

Your affair wouldn't have happened if you hadn't chosen to have it. My stbx never had one discussion with me before cheating so how is that not solely on him?

[road]

You're right, a WS doesn't believe she'll get caught. I don't believe anyone will catch me, and my A will probably continue for sometime.

 

I think, without wishing to stir up a hornets nest, that one thing that hasn't really been said is that whilst the A is completely the responsibility of the person involved in it, it is not necessarily their fault, or not solely.

 

It takes 2 people to make a marriage work, and when it fails, for whatever reasons, it is the responsibility of both parties to work at it and get it back on track. When 1 party is not willing to work on it, or does not acknowledge a problem, it leaves the other to try and fix it on their own, to make the decision to divorce, to remain unhappy, or to find another way of coping. In my case I have found another way of coping by having an A. I acknowledge that this is my responsibility, and will accept the consequences of my actions if it comes to light. But my H also has to accept his responsibilities in the failings in the marriage, and he has refused to do that, despite me asking for counselling, trying to make him see the problems, and trying to solve them. I love him dearly, but our relationship is failing because of both of us, not just because of my A which, in all likelihood would not have happened if we had both worked together to solve our problems.

 

 

 

Your BH did not force you to have an affair. You chose to.

[Midwestmissy]

My h booked mc so he could pretend to be working on the marriage. He was in fact full on in his a and lying in mc. I did everything possible to save my marriage, and he just lied to everyone. He told me everything that was wrong with me and I scrambled to change it - started working after 15yrs as sahm, volunteering, ic, you name it. While he carried on. It was mental abuse by any definition. Had I known about the other woman, I wouof have been able to make very different decisions about my future.

 

I was in the same crappy marriage but I didn't have an affair - not because my husband forced me into not having an affair, but because I chose not to. I wanted to fix the marriage and spend the rest of my life with my husband as I had for 18 years. He just said empty words and dud whatever he wanted.

 

I must not have been so horrible after all since he is begging to come back to his awful wife, marriage, house and family. If we deserved to be treated so badly, why does he want us again? None of this affair was about me, it was all about him and his petulant attitude. He thought he deserved a little strange on the side and he got it and now he doesn't like how it panned out. The fawning, all-ears understanding mow? Turns out she's a psycho liar - why are 2 liars always shocked that they're being lied to by someone they know lies? The teenagers he ignored for 6 mos? They don't respect him. After a lifetime of charming his way in and out of everything, he's shocked at what happened.

 

He took 18 mos to confess to a 6mos affair 'because I didn't want to make you hurt, I didn't love her I was never leaving you for her.' He expects applause for that. At the end of the day, he really didn't care about anyone but himself, and I'm in absolute agony every day. This was my reward for being faithful to him. Waking up every day in pain and sadness, feeling humiliated and ashamed, sucks. All the pretty lies he told for so long were for him, not me. Coward.

[badkarma2013]

No one questions that the WS lies. No one questions that the BS deserves to know the truth. But this is not what the thread is about.

 

It is about why not confess. And you posted a slew of "excuses" which made no sense to me because those "excuses" are discovered almost entirely post DDay, as I said. Now you offer up three quite legitmate "excuses"

 

But I still think you miss something. These are not EXCUSES to JUSTIFY having the affair, They are things WS's tell themselves about HOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT. Justifying having an affair is NOT the same thing as using self deception to get there.

 

I completely agree with you on 1 and a little on 2.

 

A WS tells him/herself s/he won't get caught. In fact, I agree with Glass on this. A WS having an EA and finally gets to that first kiss/make out / sexual encounter etc. goes home, maybe even starts to ask herself if she should have let things go that far, and sees that hubby, kids, life, is normal. They don't smell the sex on her. They don't notice the glow on her face. She got away with it. "So, hell, a little more won't hurt. I can always stop when..."

 

 

But my experience has been this:

My WW told herself that she can continue UNTIL she gets caught.

 

My WW, in fact, told me, that she and her AP talked about this, and as we have seen in LS a hundred times, and read in Glass, they even said "This is going to end badly."

 

Now this can be taken in several ways ("going to end badly between the two of us" - meaning, Im not leaving spouse if I have to choose between the two of you") but I took it and confirmed it to mean, "this is going to end badly if my husband or anyone from work finds out." In other words, knowing they are on a time bomb.

 

You see, my WS was in an EA for over a year before she had her first kiss. So as far as she could see, husband was not going to find out. If she planed her PA carefully, no one was going to be the wiser. And this is what many affairs are all about.

 

So I'd say that there are two essential ingredients in the logic of a WS:

 

1) Self deception about getting caught.

2) Delayed reflection: Ill cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

And this is very much supported by a host of WS's here and in the literature.

 

Given the choice of having an affair and having to lie to oneself about the consequences, the WS simply CANNOT bring him/herself to stop, and plunges forward KNOWING that this could at any minute end BADLY.

 

The contradictions that many here call "having cake" is for me something much more precise, at least in my case: It's about not asking yourself the fundamental questions about what you are doing because you KNOW the only solution is to stop, and since that is just NOT GOING TO BE AN OPTION the WS completely ignores those questions which do nothing but demonstrate the destructive and chaotic and irresponsible decisions they are making. They might even ask them of themselves once in a while. But they do nothing about the answers.

 

In my WW's case she had two people try to stop her with reason:

 

"Are you prepared to lose you husband, daughter, your marriage for this?" asked one. "I'm not prepared to give up AP" was the answer.

 

This is not someone who thinks her husband will find out, this is someone who is saying Ill cross that bridge when I get to it, but not before I have my thing.

 

In another, she went to her IC (work related depression) and told him about her EA ("not getting my needs met") and how she wanted to move forward into a PA. He told her to go home, talk to me, and demand to have her needs met, but maybe not a good idea to confess about her EA. Of course she did none of those things, because what she really wanted was her IC to give her "permission" to go all the way with her AP. And besides, not having needs met was a load of crap. She had no needs left back at home other than having a house husband take care of things, her AP by then quite clear about meeting all those supposed needs.

 

Self deception even in IC. Self deception even when her best friend is telling her her marriage is about to end. Self deception even when she asked her AP (who was himself a BH who lost his WW to her AP) how I was going to feel... and he told her, "you cannot imagine the pain this is going to cause - especially for your 8 year old daughter." Did any of this stop her? Of course not.

 

The only thing that allowed her to keep going was that bridge that she couldn't see in front of her nose.

 

*****************************************************************

Fellini,

This is one of the best post to date yet.....I know you are going thru R and i know( from your post) how hard this has been for you....

 

However this post ..you have pulled no punches with re to a WW/WS actions..It hit me with such clarity ..I stopped everything and wanted to answer asap...

 

After my D and( before the pics) became public if you will..a coworker of my WW came to me and told me "I went to your wife and told her everyone in the company knows about you and the V.P. having an A and basically promoted you so you could travel with him...If we know. how long before your Husband finds out..and you are going to lose everything"

 

Her words to the co-worker .was almost Identical to your WWs..."i cant give him up...I simply cannot quit. ....he doesnt know (me)..and i will deal with it when it comes.."

 

 

You are so right..She did not give a SH&T(at the time)....and did not appear ,to the coworker to be that concerned..

 

In looking back..when I first found evidence (on her phone) ...her denial,minimizing and trickle truth ...i knew i could not stay...when Everything became evident (pictures,confession..etc)..I knew i was going to have to do what was best for me...I stayed until I found much more than i bargained for.....But my how she changed when D_day arrived...

[Clay]

My h booked mc so he could pretend to be working on the marriage. He was in fact full on in his a and lying in mc. I did everything possible to save my marriage, and he just lied to everyone. He told me everything that was wrong with me and I scrambled to change it - started working after 15yrs as sahm, volunteering, ic, you name it. While he carried on. It was mental abuse by any definition. Had I known about the other woman, I wouof have been able to make very different decisions about my future.

 

I was in the same crappy marriage but I didn't have an affair - not because my husband forced me into not having an affair, but because I chose not to. I wanted to fix the marriage and spend the rest of my life with my husband as I had for 18 years. He just said empty words and dud whatever he wanted.

 

I must not have been so horrible after all since he is begging to come back to his awful wife, marriage, house and family. If we deserved to be treated so badly, why does he want us again? None of this affair was about me, it was all about him and his petulant attitude. He thought he deserved a little strange on the side and he got it and now he doesn't like how it panned out. The fawning, all-ears understanding mow? Turns out she's a psycho liar - why are 2 liars always shocked that they're being lied to by someone they know lies? The teenagers he ignored for 6 mos? They don't respect him. After a lifetime of charming his way in and out of everything, he's shocked at what happened.

 

He took 18 mos to confess to a 6mos affair 'because I didn't want to make you hurt, I didn't love her I was never leaving you for her.' He expects applause for that. At the end of the day, he really didn't care about anyone but himself, and I'm in absolute agony every day. This was my reward for being faithful to him. Waking up every day in pain and sadness, feeling humiliated and ashamed, sucks. All the pretty lies he told for so long were for him, not me. Coward.

 

I am really sorry this has happened to you. I think you really point out why I think cheaters are really horrible people. All this time he was focused on covering his own tracks. How in the world can anyone focus on being a good father to there kids while they are playing these kinds of games.

 

When I was cheated on she failed on both fronts and yes she was a SAHM. She used this time to take care of only her needs. My children suffered greatly and so did I. What little time I had after work was devoted to dealing with the messes she made. I am so thankful she is out of my life now.

 

I would run from him and never let him back in. Your life will be so much better and your children will greatly benefit from not being raised by him as well.

 

You will never really get rewarded for doing the right thing like you really deserve but in your heart it was you that chose to be a better person.

 

Clay

[jbrent890]

No one questions that the WS lies. No one questions that the BS deserves to know the truth. But this is not what the thread is about.

 

It is about why not confess. And you posted a slew of "excuses" which made no sense to me because those "excuses" are discovered almost entirely post DDay, as I said. Now you offer up three quite legitmate "excuses"

 

But I still think you miss something. These are not EXCUSES to JUSTIFY having the affair, They are things WS's tell themselves about HOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT. Justifying having an affair is NOT the same thing as using self deception to get there.

 

I completely agree with you on 1 and a little on 2.

 

A WS tells him/herself s/he won't get caught. In fact, I agree with Glass on this. A WS having an EA and finally gets to that first kiss/make out / sexual encounter etc. goes home, maybe even starts to ask herself if she should have let things go that far, and sees that hubby, kids, life, is normal. They don't smell the sex on her. They don't notice the glow on her face. She got away with it. "So, hell, a little more won't hurt. I can always stop when..."

 

 

But my experience has been this:

My WW told herself that she can continue UNTIL she gets caught.

 

My WW, in fact, told me, that she and her AP talked about this, and as we have seen in LS a hundred times, and read in Glass, they even said "This is going to end badly."

 

Now this can be taken in several ways ("going to end badly between the two of us" - meaning, Im not leaving spouse if I have to choose between the two of you") but I took it and confirmed it to mean, "this is going to end badly if my husband or anyone from work finds out." In other words, knowing they are on a time bomb.

 

You see, my WS was in an EA for over a year before she had her first kiss. So as far as she could see, husband was not going to find out. If she planed her PA carefully, no one was going to be the wiser. And this is what many affairs are all about.

 

So I'd say that there are two essential ingredients in the logic of a WS:

 

1) Self deception about getting caught.

2) Delayed reflection: Ill cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

And this is very much supported by a host of WS's here and in the literature.

 

Given the choice of having an affair and having to lie to oneself about the consequences, the WS simply CANNOT bring him/herself to stop, and plunges forward KNOWING that this could at any minute end BADLY.

 

The contradictions that many here call "having cake" is for me something much more precise, at least in my case: It's about not asking yourself the fundamental questions about what you are doing because you KNOW the only solution is to stop, and since that is just NOT GOING TO BE AN OPTION the WS completely ignores those questions which do nothing but demonstrate the destructive and chaotic and irresponsible decisions they are making. They might even ask them of themselves once in a while. But they do nothing about the answers.

 

In my WW's case she had two people try to stop her with reason:

 

"Are you prepared to lose you husband, daughter, your marriage for this?" asked one. "I'm not prepared to give up AP" was the answer.

 

This is not someone who thinks her husband will find out, this is someone who is saying Ill cross that bridge when I get to it, but not before I have my thing.

 

In another, she went to her IC (work related depression) and told him about her EA ("not getting my needs met") and how she wanted to move forward into a PA. He told her to go home, talk to me, and demand to have her needs met, but maybe not a good idea to confess about her EA. Of course she did none of those things, because what she really wanted was her IC to give her "permission" to go all the way with her AP. And besides, not having needs met was a load of crap. She had no needs left back at home other than having a house husband take care of things, her AP by then quite clear about meeting all those supposed needs.

 

Self deception even in IC. Self deception even when her best friend is telling her her marriage is about to end. Self deception even when she asked her AP (who was himself a BH who lost his WW to her AP) how I was going to feel... and he told her, "you cannot imagine the pain this is going to cause - especially for your 8 year old daughter." Did any of this stop her? Of course not.

 

The only thing that allowed her to keep going was that bridge that she couldn't see in front of her nose.

 

Fellini I have to ask, knowing all of this, why did you choose to R? Not to be disrespectful to your choice, but it really sounds like your wife really did put AP ahead of you and your family. To me, it looks like your wife got everything she wanted. She got to take a break from the marriage, have her fun, and is now able to come back to the marriage. IDK, I guess from the outside looking in, it doesn't really look like she lost that much.

[badkarma2013]

Fellini I have to ask, knowing all of this, why did you choose to R? Not to be disrespectful to your choice, but it really sounds like your wife really did put AP ahead of you and your family. To me, it looks like your wife got everything she wanted. She got to take a break from the marriage, have her fun, and is now able to come back to the marriage. IDK, I guess from the outside looking in, it doesn't really look like she lost that much.

 

I am NOT attempting to answer for fellini..However i have read EVERY post he has written..

 

He posted to me he would have left Any other person..but not this one..He feels the pain and angst he is going thru is worth the outcome...His WW ..I think has been remorseful ...forthright and answered all he wanted to know...That for him seems to be enough..

 

I was in no where near that frame of mind..I burned everything and everyone involved to the ground....I outed him to his Ex and she destroyed him in the D... And I had them both Fired, by a lawsuit i filed...

 

Infidelity is and was a dealbreaker for me..But remember when all was said and done all that was left of 2 Families was ash and ruin...

 

We were handed SH#T for choices.....we just played the hand different...TODAY im not sure Which is better or worse...for they are both sides of the same coin..

[fellini]

That's pretty much a fair assessment.

 

Yes, the AP was put way ahead of the family. Although you would have to understand it wasn't that she needed a break from the marriage. She had and continues to have an awesome marriage and a daughter to die for that she at no time considered the implications even when they were thrust in her face. She claims she felt we pulled away, but the fact is, she pulled away, leaving my daughter and I to improve an already great relationship.

 

I haven't asked her much in the past months, we finally got to an "epiphany" recently where she was able to say she really f--ked up the marriage for actually pretty little in return.

 

She also commented that she really failed miserably in recovery, hiding things from me, and not saying what needed to be said. Usual trickle truthing and justifying it by saying she "wasn't ready herself to speak those things" She has since proven that if I ask anything now, I get a straight answer.

 

What I learned is that her EA turned PA became dangerously close to an exit affair. And while we are still in R, and I still vacillate many days about my leaving/staying leaving/staying Im not feeling strong enough desire to give up on it yet. As I have said elsewhere, if I decide to walk, it will be because of my own inability to stay, not because, basically the A, nor her faltering recovery and final reconciliation which is going rather well lately. It will be because I don't want to stay.

 

Pretty much the mirror image of the Affair, in the end. She was leaving, but all the same staying, and I am staying but also leaving.

 

At this stage in my life Im not interested in another marriage, another woman, another family another go. So if I walk, I need to be really really sure it's what I want, because I took the longest time in my life to say "I do" - wallowing through dozens of relationships, and Im not about to just let that slip through without being sure why. Saying "infidelity is a deal breaker" doesn't do it for me with this woman. My previous ones yes.

 

Part of me feels too that im not going anywhere, Im in pain of course, but at the same time Im here enjoying the tiny family I have. I am 5000 km away from where I spent the first 35 years of my life, my brothers and sisters, I can't go back there, and I have no unforseen future here. I don't feel any inconvenience to stay in R, enjoy what I can with the days I can, and see where that takes me. It is, as you can see, not about my WW.

 

 

 

 

 

Fellini I have to ask, knowing all of this, why did you choose to R? Not to be disrespectful to your choice, but it really sounds like your wife really did put AP ahead of you and your family. To me, it looks like your wife got everything she wanted. She got to take a break from the marriage, have her fun, and is now able to come back to the marriage. IDK, I guess from the outside looking in, it doesn't really look like she lost that much.

[Furious]

Most people by now know that I'm pretty pro confession. I really don't believe that you should cover up a lie with another lie. I would like to hear people's opninions on why you should not tell. I definitely believe that there are certain circumstances that you should not confess. If you know the bs would harm you or themselves, if you already plan on leaving the relationship, or if the bs told you beforehand that they would not want to know provided you are recommitting yourself to the relationship. From my experience on here, the majority of Waywards that are not confessing are choosing not to because they know it's dealbreaker for their spouse. However the reason not to confess is masked with "I don't want to deflect my guilt on them." Personally I find that mindset rubbish, and I think they do as well. Again, I would love to hear thoughts on this issue?

 

I believe the majority of those who confess are facing a probable exposure by either another betrayed spouse or a difficult Ow/Om. Often, a confession is an attempt to curtail damage and regain a sense of the narrative that best suits the WS's sense of control.

 

I believe it's human nature to avoid accountability and consequences as much as possible.