Honestly, why not confess?

[Selfish]

This, times infinity. The only true cure for infidelity is divorce. Anything else? You just mask the symptoms.

 

This is merely your opinion, and only applies to yourself. You are not everyone else. You do not see or feel like everyone else. To think your one answer is the right one is bigoted.

[Selfish]

Cheating is essentially lieing and stealing combined with a premeditated purpose of destroying someone else to suit your own selfish needs.

 

Does this make the person a bad person? Yes. Just like if you went into the store and robbed them. It makes you a theif. That would also make you a horrible person.

 

So I know people don't like to hear that but its the truth.

 

The part that makes this incredibly worse is you put people at risk for diseases and possibly some kind of physical attack. Sure you think you can be trusted with sleeping with someone and judging them to be a good partner but you already failed the basics.

 

Does this mean you will be a horrible person for the rest of your life who knows. Only you can answer that. Some people actually change and atone to the horrible things they have done but clearly from most of the threads I have read most don't.

 

I personally hope WS's get help and try to live a more healthy life.

But what would be the point? If you and many on here go to such great lengths to basically cheaters cheat and are a special group of people you place a hopeleness. You don't believe in redemption or change and you and others like you never waste a moment spreading your hatred and condemnation of cheaters. You basically have said you wouldn't even keep your own child around you of they cheated because you don't surround yourself with people you view as less than you. And you view someone who has cheated, even once, as less than you and not worthy of your time. So even if you didn't cut someone off it would be clear that nothing they could do would change your view of them. No forgiveness and no redemption.

 

So what is the point?

[Spectre]

This is merely your opinion, and only applies to yourself. You are not everyone else. You do not see or feel like everyone else. To think your one answer is the right one is bigoted.

 

Okie dokie, when did I say I was everyone else? Do I need to put up a disclaimer in every post stating it is my opinion? Since that should be a given.

 

But what would be the point? If you and many on here go to such great lengths to basically cheaters cheat and are a special group of people you place a hopeleness. You don't believe in redemption or change and you and others like you never waste a moment spreading your hatred and condemnation of cheaters. You basically have said you wouldn't even keep your own child around you of they cheated because you don't surround yourself with people you view as less than you. And you view someone who has cheated, even once, as less than you and not worthy of your time. So even if you didn't cut someone off it would be clear that nothing they could do would change your view of them. No forgiveness and no redemption.

 

So what is the point?

 

Stop saying people are spreading "hatred of cheaters". Because no, not a single thing he said was spreading hate. You also bring up the "you wouldn't keep your own child if they cheated". I surely hope you are not the SAME poster who brought up this point before, because the guy clearly addressed you and said he would not disown his kids if they cheated.

 

But hey since we are asking what the point of things are: what the heck is the point of you posting and drastically over reacting to things? You realize any point you might of had is lost in a sea of you being terribly over dramatic about things. Seriously, spreading a "hatred of cheaters"? Did someone say we should burn cheaters at the stake and I missed it? Since surely even someone saying "cheaters are bad and can't be redeemed" would never equate to spreading hatred. It is going to be hard to take you seriously if you feel a person being of the opinion cheaters shouldn't be forgiven or redeemed..means they have some hatred of cheaters. You act as if instead of saying "they shouldn't be forgiven" someone said "we should hunt then down and stone them to death".

Edited January 14, 2015 by Spectre

[Selfish]

The problem with these posts is they do nothing to encourage a WS to cheat. They just show them that once the sin has been committed they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Everything they say will be seen as excuses. The disgust and labelling and hatred seen will show them what they have a good chance of experiencing if they confess.

 

So why confess?

 

What does it gain? Everyone talk about concepts and ideas but little of reality. They talk from a BS point of view about being owed a confession so their life is not a lie. But that is selfish. So who gets to have it their way? Is it "fair" after the WS selfish behaviour to hand the selfish behaviour over to the WS and become a groveling mess. Or see their selfish actions rip their family apart?

 

Or, they choose to swallow the guilt. They choose to end the affair and work on many other good traits of a spouse.

 

Maybe the rest of the BS' life look a lie to those who read online or hear a story told to them. But that is just more over thinking and not living.

 

I was selfish, am selfish, unlike others who live in denial over their selfishness. I confessed and there was selfish motive to it. It was what I felt I should do and m choice.

 

My personal stance is for confession. Because discovery is almost always a risk. But I do not think these threads do anything to convince a WS to confess.

[Selfish]

Okie dokie, when did I say I was everyone else? Do I need to put up a disclaimer in every post stating it is my opinion? Since that should be a given.

 

 

 

Stop saying people are spreading "hatred of cheaters". Because no, not a single thing he said was spreading hate. You also bring up the "you wouldn't keep your own child if they cheated". I surely hope you are not the SAME poster who brought up this point before, because the guy clearly addressed you and said he would not disown his kids if they cheated.

 

But hey since we are asking what the point of things are: what the heck is the point of you posting and drastically over reacting to things? You realize any point you might of had is lost in a sea of you being terribly over dramatic about things. Seriously, spreading a "hatred of cheaters"? Did someone say we should burn cheaters at the stake and I missed it? Since surely even someone saying "cheaters are bad and can't be redeemed" would never equate to spreading hatred. It is going to be hard to take you seriously if you feel a person being of the opinion cheaters shouldn't be forgiven or redeemed..means they have some hatred of cheaters. You act as if instead of saying "they shouldn't be forgiven" someone said "we should hunt then down and stone them to death".

 

Don't be silly, you've always made it clear you hate cheaters. The ones who post on here whenever they try to post. And no, Clay never answered the question. He danced around it. Mostly because he doesn't actually think his children would ever cheat. Which I hope he is right.

[Spectre]

Your problem is you think this thread is meant for convincing betrayers to confess. It's not, it's trying to understand why they don't confess. If someone is truly set against not confessing nothing anyone says will change it.

 

Here is the thing you are missing though: who cares if everything they say will be seen as excuses? Who cares if they gain nothing? The point is..it is the RIGHT thing to do. It's not about what the cheater gets out of it, and it's not about what other people think. It's about doing the right thing, and not being a piece of sh*t that forces someone to continue to live a lie.

 

You talk about swallowing guilt and not confessing and working on many other good traits of a spouse. Problem there is if you cheat and do not confess you have no other good traits as a spouse. Any trait that at one time would of been considered good is negated because of the fact you are a lying cheater.

 

In conclusion: the point of confessing is because it's the right thing to do and anyone with even a spec of humanity in them would never want to doom someone to living a lie.

 

Don't be silly, you've always made it clear you hate cheaters. The ones who post on here whenever they try to post. And no, Clay never answered the question. He danced around it. Mostly because he doesn't actually think his children would ever cheat. Which I hope he is right.

 

The only person being silly is you. Never once made it clear I hate cheaters, and you just proved my point: attitudes like yours. Where if people show a strong disapproval of cheating they HATE cheaters. That is like the same people who, whenever a guy criticizes a woman, immediately begin shouting about misogyny. So no, you don't get to play the "you hate cheaters because you've constantly been against cheating". I've said cheating means you don't love your spouse, I've said cheating should never be forgiven, and hell I've even called cheaters scum. But none of that translates into actual hate. I hate nazi's, but I don't hate cheaters, they just piss me off.

 

He did answer your question, but here you are bringing it up again. It should of never even been a question to begin with though, you took a major leap thinking he'd disown his kids.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Spectre

[Selfish]

Your problem is you think this thread is meant for convincing betrayers to confess. It's not, it's trying to understand why they don't confess. If someone is truly set against not confessing nothing anyone says will change it.

 

Here is the thing you are missing though: who cares if everything they say will be seen as excuses? Who cares if they gain nothing? The point is..it is the RIGHT thing to do. It's not about what the cheater gets out of it, and it's not about what other people think. It's about doing the right thing, and not being a piece of sh*t that forces someone to continue to live a lie.

 

You talk about swallowing guilt and not confessing and working on many other good traits of a spouse. Problem there is if you cheat and do not confess you have no other good traits as a spouse. Any trait that at one time would of been considered is negated because of the fact you are a lying cheater.

 

In conclusion: the point of confessing is because it's the right thing to do and anyone with even a spec of humanity in them would never want to doom someone to living a lie.

 

 

 

The only person being silly is you. Never once made it clear I hate cheaters, and you just proved my point: attitudes like yours. Where if people show a strong disapproval of cheating they HATE cheaters. That is like the same people who, whenever a guy criticizes a woman, immediately begin shouting about misogyny. So no, you don't get to play the "you hate cheaters because you've constantly been against cheating". I've said cheating means you don't love your spouse, I've said cheating should never be forgiven, and hell I've even called cheaters scum. But none of that translates into actual hate. I hate nazi's, but I don't hate cheaters, they just piss me off.

 

He did answer your question, but here you are bringing it up again.

 

You have had many a posts removed for their angst against waywards. Don't try to pretend you don't. Anyone who has been on the other end of your attacks knows this. But maybe it is just your narrowminded judgements and over the top harshness that comes across has hatred. Maybe you don't wish bad upon people who have cheated and do hope they make their lives better for themselves. Maybe you actually do care. Your posts speak otherwise...

 

But saying it is the "right" thing to do is just your opinion. Your perspective. I have read of the odd person who says they would rather not have known. Drifter for one is not pro confession. He doesn't buy into the "right" thing to do perspective. And that is his opinion.

 

For you, it is the "right" thing to do. For someone else, it is not. There are many valid reasons not to confess whether anyone proconfession agrees with them or not. And they don't boil down to a lot of the drival, assumptions, and wide brush strokes portrayed here.

[violet1]

Cheating is essentially lieing and stealing combined with a premeditated purpose of destroying someone else to suit your own selfish needs.

 

Does this make the person a bad person? Yes. Just like if you went into the store and robbed them. It makes you a theif. That would also make you a horrible person.

 

So I know people don't like to hear that but its the truth.

 

The part that makes this incredibly worse is you put people at risk for diseases and possibly some kind of physical attack. Sure you think you can be trusted with sleeping with someone and judging them to be a good partner but you already failed the basics.

 

Does this mean you will be a horrible person for the rest of your life who knows. Only you can answer that. Some people actually change and atone to the horrible things they have done but clearly from most of the threads I have read most don't.

 

I personally hope WS's get help and try to live a more healthy life.

I'm sorry, but I don't see things that way. I don't believe cheating makes a person bad or evil. I see it as someone who made a bad decision. Especially if the person is truly remorseful. I think it's different if a person is a serial cheater or has no intention to stop cheating. I also see it the same way about a thief. We're all human, we all make bad decisions. Some people make worse choices than others. My H and I have been in R for over a year and we're fine.

 

 

My comment is more about the BS stating why a WS doesn't confess. It's all speculation, but I do know that a lot of BS's would be throwing a fit if OW's were making comments on the reason BS's stay. A bit of an unfair double standard that is very common around here.

[Clay]

But what would be the point? If you and many on here go to such great lengths to basically cheaters cheat and are a special group of people you place a hopeleness. You don't believe in redemption or change and you and others like you never waste a moment spreading your hatred and condemnation of cheaters. You basically have said you wouldn't even keep your own child around you of they cheated because you don't surround yourself with people you view as less than you. And you view someone who has cheated, even once, as less than you and not worthy of your time. So even if you didn't cut someone off it would be clear that nothing they could do would change your view of them. No forgiveness and no redemption.

 

So what is the point?

 

I don't believe I am really spreading hatred. I think I am just trying to help people see that there are better more suitable partners out there.

 

I will never support staying with a cheater. Most cheaters are repeat cheaters. You have no magical way of telling which one will never do it again. When you figure this out please enlighten me. I would be happy to share it with all the other people I come across so they can make good sound decisions on there future.

 

I personally do not put someone with lower morals or values in my life. I am not going to be best friends with a thief or a liar. So yea I am not interested in having someone in my life or my kids lives have lower morals or lower values than I do.

 

I understand your plight about redemption and there is no doubt in my mind that some people actually do go that route. There are cheaters that have came to this site that I feel have gone down that path. Its just very rare.

 

My kids know where I stand on this and I know I can not predict the future but they know it would be best not to come knocking on my door if they were in that position. Sure at some point in time we would reconnect but that would take time.

 

If you also read the last statement I made in that post its that I hope those people seek help so they can become better people for themselves.

 

Why not have a healthy life? Is it so bad that I want that for my kids?

 

 

Clay

[Spectre]

You have had many a posts removed for their angst against waywards. Don't try to pretend you don't. Anyone who has been on the other end of your attacks knows this. But maybe it is just your narrowminded judgements and over the top harshness that comes across has hatred. Maybe you don't wish bad upon people who have cheated and do hope they make their lives better for themselves. Maybe you actually do care. Your posts speak otherwise...

 

Again: your attitude speaks volumes. Having angst does NOT equate to hatred. I shouldn't need to explain this.

 

Also the notion of you calling other people narrowminded is utterly hilarious.

 

But saying it is the "right" thing to do is just your opinion. Your perspective. I have read of the odd person who says they would rather not have known. Drifter for one is not pro confession. He doesn't buy into the "right" thing to do perspective. And that is his opinion.

 

For you, it is the "right" thing to do. For someone else, it is not. There are many valid reasons not to confess whether anyone proconfession agrees with them or not. And they don't boil down to a lot of the drival, assumptions, and wide brush strokes portrayed here.

 

Nope, it's the right thing to do period. You cheat? You confess, period. If someone is not pro confession that is their business, but it doesn't change what is right.

[Selfish]

"Living a lie"

 

If someone has to choose between knowing their partner cheated and dealing with the pain, anger and all that stuff and not knowing, the affair being over and never repeated, a life spent full of happiness and love. They almost all will choose the first.

 

But

 

The second would be a far better life. In theory, we want to know. In reality, we'd be better off if the second could be our reality.

 

 

And the second but

 

Even though this happens (the second) more than we know, Many WS do not end the affair or become seriel cheaters, or something comes out years down the road. Or they are unable to navigate past the guilt and it destroys them. That is why I am proconfession.

 

But, if the second did occur, i would say at the end of their lives it was the better life. Honesty and pain. Or living an unknown "lie" and happiness.

[Spectre]

I'm sorry, but I don't see things that way. I don't believe cheating makes a person bad or evil. I see it as someone who made a bad decision. Especially if the person is truly remorseful. I think it's different if a person is a serial cheater or has no intention to stop cheating. I also see it the same way about a thief. We're all human, we all make bad decisions. Some people make worse choices than others. My H and I have been in R for over a year and we're fine.

 

But you are not talking about A bad decision. A single bad decision is slipping up one time. You have said multiple times you had a full blown affair.

[Spectre]

"Living a lie"

 

If someone has to choose between knowing their partner cheated and dealing with the pain, anger and all that stuff and not knowing, the affair being over and never repeated, a life spent full of happiness and love. They almost all will choose the first.

 

But

 

The second would be a far better life. In theory, we want to know. In reality, we'd be better off if the second could be our reality.

 

 

And the second but

 

Even though this happens (the second) more than we know, Many WS do not end the affair or become seriel cheaters, or something comes out years down the road. Or they are unable to navigate past the guilt and it destroys them. That is why I am proconfession.

 

But, if the second did occur, i would say at the end of their lives it was the better life. Honesty and pain. Or living an unknown "lie" and happiness.

 

Nope, nobody is "better off" living a lie. Cheaters who can't face reality about what they did think this, these are the same folk who don't confess because they just care sooo much about their partners feelings. Likewise, people who have a poor outlook of themselves would be the only ones who would prefer to be blissfully ignorant.

 

Or how about I put it another way, what kind of existence does one have where living a lie is preferred? I want reality, we only get one life so why in gods name would anyone want to live that one life as a lie. Why would they want to be constantly disrespected by their spouse? For me if someone says "eh, I'd just prefer to live a lie" that tells me they have given up on life.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Spectre

[Selfish]

Nope, nobody is "better off" living a lie. Cheaters who can't face reality and what they did think this. Likewise, people who have a poor outlook of themselves would be the only ones who would prefer to be blissfully ignorant.

 

You have nothing but a concept to back you up.

 

Not to mention the fact that "living a lie" is just a concept as well.

 

For me, living a lie occurs when a person is actively involved with an AP. I personally don't see past undisclosed infidelity as living a lie. The laughter shared is real, the experiences are all real. It may seem unfathomable that would be the better life than hatred, anger, selfishness, pain, and so forth.

 

Givinf your spouse the oppurtunity to choose as I chose to do may seem "right". But it carried a lot of pain for my H that keeping silent would not have done.

[Selfish]

Or how about I put it another way, what kind of existence does one have where living a lie is preferred? I want reality, we only get one life so why in gods name would anyone want to live that one life as a lie. Why would they want to be constantly disrespected by their spouse? For me if someone says "eh, I'd just prefer to live a lie" that tells me they have given up on life.

 

Like I said, people almost always say they would want to know. But the real reality (not your moral reality or idealistic reality but the actual state of complete ignorance to your spouse's past affair or ONS)

 

We humans have some funny concepts and ideas. And platitudes. They often get in the way of our own happiness.

[Sub]

I personally don't see past undisclosed infidelity as living a lie. The laughter shared is real, the experiences are all real. It may seem unfathomable that would be the better life than hatred, anger, selfishness, pain, and so forth.

 

Have to disagree here. Yes, the laughter can be real, and the experiences. But there's an assumption when you're with someone that you "know" them. The best and the worst of them. At any time post-infidelity - over the course of years most likely - a person can/will turn to their spouse and tell them how they love them for being true to them, for being devoted, for sticking with them through hard times, etc. The second the WS hears that but chooses not to come clean, they are living a lie, IMO. It doesn't mean that they don't love the BS, mind you. But they can't lay claim to living an honest life with that BS.

[violet1]

But you are not talking about A bad decision. A single bad decision is slipping up one time. You have said multiple times you had a full blown affair.

You need to stop twisting my words around. My affair as a whole was a bad decision. I'm moving on from it, working on myself and my marriage. My H doesn't see me as a horrible and disgusting person. HIS opinion about my A is the only one that matters to me.

[Clay]

I'm sorry, but I don't see things that way. I don't believe cheating makes a person bad or evil. I see it as someone who made a bad decision. Especially if the person is truly remorseful. I think it's different if a person is a serial cheater or has no intention to stop cheating. I also see it the same way about a thief. We're all human, we all make bad decisions. Some people make worse choices than others. My H and I have been in R for over a year and we're fine.

 

 

My comment is more about the BS stating why a WS doesn't confess. It's all speculation, but I do know that a lot of BS's would be throwing a fit if OW's were making comments on the reason BS's stay. A bit of an unfair double standard that is very common around here.

 

First off let me say I am very happy for both you and your H that you have Reconciled and things are going well for you. I personally could not reconcile. I tried and It just did not work out for me.

 

I just don't agree. I think cheating is a serious thing and I think it really reflects on the kind of person the WS is.

 

I will say this it sure sounds like your trying to make your life better and I commend you for that. I wish you and your H the best in your reconciliation

 

Clay

[purplesorrow]

I'm sorry, but I don't see things that way. I don't believe cheating makes a person bad or evil. I see it as someone who made a bad decision. Especially if the person is truly remorseful. I think it's different if a person is a serial cheater or has no intention to stop cheating. I also see it the same way about a thief. We're all human, we all make bad decisions. Some people make worse choices than others. My H and I have been in R for over a year and we're fine.

 

 

My comment is more about the BS stating why a WS doesn't confess. It's all speculation, but I do know that a lot of BS's would be throwing a fit if OW's were making comments on the reason BS's stay. A bit of an unfair double standard that is very common around here.

 

I know my WH so I can speculate why he wouldn't confess. The ow never even met me, how could she know why I would stay? I think most betrayed spouses answers are from their own experience with their WS.

[Selfish]

First off let me say I am very happy for both you and your H that you have Reconciled and things are going well for you. I personally could not reconcile. I tried and It just did not work out for me.

 

I just don't agree. I think cheating is a serious thing and I think it really reflects on the kind of person the WS is.

 

I will say this it sure sounds like your trying to make your life better and I commend you for that. I wish you and your H the best in your reconciliation

 

Clay

Your well wishes ring hollow after your judgement of who a WS is. And the fact you wouldn't even forgive your children readily for their sins.

 

No one has argued that infidelity isn't a big deal. I think it is. I know it is and I now truly understand (a little too late in some aspects) how damaging it is.

 

But I will not accept that I am a terrible person or evil. Without hope of redemption or a second chance (whether that had been with or without my husband). Nor that I was somehow a terrible or evil person before I did such a terrible thing. That is flawed and hopeless thinking and condamnation. And rather simplistic. Humans are far more complex than that. Three months of my life may define me to yiu but thankfully my husband has more of a heart than that.

 

As to trying to R and you couldn't actually gives a false idea of what happened. You gave r a second chance and it failed because your wife repeated her behaviour and ran off with her OM. She is a crazy woman who abandons her children. Not exactly the same person as violet or I. Nor the same circumstance.

[violet1]

I know my WH so I can speculate why he wouldn't confess. The ow never even met me, how could she know why I would stay? I think most betrayed spouses answers are from their own experience with their WS.

Fair enough, but affairs can be misleading. There have been OW's here who have stated they know the WH better than the BS. I think OW's often go by what the WH states about the BS. It might be true and it might not. You really never know what's going on in another person's mind. Even my own H who knows me very well had no clue to why I didn't confess at first, but then I chose to confess after I broke NC. Now, he and I approach things differently. We discuss EVERYTHING. Sometimes it's a bit exhausting, but there's no secrets between us.

[purplesorrow]

Sounds like you're headed towards a good future. I hope everything works out. Peace.

[Clay]

Your well wishes ring hollow after your judgement of who a WS is. And the fact you wouldn't even forgive your children readily for their sins.

 

No one has argued that infidelity isn't a big deal. I think it is. I know it is and I now truly understand (a little too late in some aspects) how damaging it is.

 

But I will not accept that I am a terrible person or evil. Without hope of redemption or a second chance (whether that had been with or without my husband). Nor that I was somehow a terrible or evil person before I did such a terrible thing. That is flawed and hopeless thinking and condamnation. And rather simplistic. Humans are far more complex than that. Three months of my life may define me to yiu but thankfully my husband has more of a heart than that.

 

As to trying to R and you couldn't actually gives a false idea of what happened. You gave r a second chance and it failed because your wife repeated her behaviour and ran off with her OM. She is a crazy woman who abandons her children. Not exactly the same person as violet or I. Nor the same circumstance.

 

I don't think I have ever refereed to you or anyone else as evil.

 

You have to live with what you have done in your life. You have to live with the choices you have made. I don't think its wrong for me to choose to look for better people for my kids to have as role models. I don't see anything wrong with pushing them to reach higher. You act as if I have attacked you and I have not. What you did in your life is your choice. If you feel good or that you are not a bad person for what you have done that is your choice.

 

I just personally don't look at it that way.

 

As far as forgiveness is concerned that is for me to decided who In my life I feel deserves it just like it is for them if I had been the one that failed.

 

You should write a thread about your journey. Who knows maybe you might help people see differently.

 

Clay

[Selfish]

I don't think I have ever refereed to you or anyone else as evil.

 

You have to live with what you have done in your life. You have to live with the choices you have made. I don't think its wrong for me to choose to look for better people for my kids to have as role models. I don't see anything wrong with pushing them to reach higher. You act as if I have attacked you and I have not. What you did in your life is your choice. If you feel good or that you are not a bad person for what you have done that is your choice.

 

I just personally don't look at it that way.

 

As far as forgiveness is concerned that is for me to decided who In my life I feel deserves it just like it is for them if I had been the one that failed.

 

You should write a thread about your journey. Who knows maybe you might help people see differently.

 

Clay

 

One last thing.

 

I was a terrible person when I had my affair.

 

I don't deny it or minimize it.

 

But while you surround yourself and your kids with people who have never screwed up. While you feel superior to these people because you don't believe people can become better. I choose to teach my children to have a heart. And not to judge someone for past behaviour but rather present.

 

Because I don't want them to turn into heartless domineering people who look down on others and judge them.

 

And should they make wrong descision in their life and screw up royally like I did, i want them to have hope that they can choose better and have a meaningful. That they are not worthless. That there is good in them. Because the other is a terrible path to go down.

[merrmeade]

The problem with these posts is they do nothing to encourage a WS to cheat.

Wha-a-a-athe...?! :Sorry for the lack of encouragement! That's really a hard one. Shame on us!