Spectre Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'll assume what you seem to be trying to say includes my opinion that it's not particularly interesting to ask for an honest response but then give a list of responses you don't want to hear, won't accept, or have the right to interpret and distort as you wish... This being a public forum and all. It's a public forum you can ask for whatever type of response you want and people can in turn give you any response they desire as long as it doesn't break the rules. None of the responses broke any rules, I don't see your issue here. Link to post Share on other sites
OverIt75 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I remember just thinking - the likely outcome of my BH knowing the full truth, whether I confessed or he discovered, would be so freaking horrific that I would rather pin my hopes on the very small possibility he may never know. It just seemed like the lesser of all evils. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I remember just thinking - the likely outcome of my BH knowing the full truth, whether I confessed or he discovered, would be so freaking horrific that I would rather pin my hopes on the very small possibility he may never know. It just seemed like the lesser of all evils. First, its never really evil to be honest to loved ones. The affair was the evil, confessing isn't. Secondly, how's it going? Hopefully well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I remember just thinking - the likely outcome of my BH knowing the full truth, whether I confessed or he discovered, would be so freaking horrific that I would rather pin my hopes on the very small possibility he may never know. It just seemed like the lesser of all evils. First, its never really evil to be honest to loved ones. The affair was the evil, confessing isn't. Secondly, how's it going? Hopefully well. I could not agree with you more DKT3. However, I do also understand the fear of OverIt75. Opposites that both make perfect sense. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I remember just thinking - the likely outcome of my BH knowing the full truth, whether I confessed or he discovered, would be so freaking horrific that I would rather pin my hopes on the very small possibility he may never know. It just seemed like the lesser of all evils. I apologize for this statement and say it with no malice intended...but you Know how you are...If you want you really know how your BH is made up and state your marriage Really is in.... tell him or let him find out..Then you Will see how things as they REALLY are... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The thing is that if both the BS and the WS want to reconcile and are both committed to making a go of it, then does it really matter if ALL the gory details come out or not? Is this obsession with confession to the nth degree, really necessary? When a person chooses to date someone, they get into a mental place, where, what the other did with other women/other men is not even brought up or thought about. Most do not obsess over their partner's historic sex in the back of a pick up truck, with a prostitute or every night in bed with their ex partner. They do not need to know every detail of the other's historic love lives, for the relationship to grow and develop. They do not need each to spill all the beans before they can move on into a relationship with them. Is it not possible then, for married adults in R, to get into a mental place, where sex/love with the OM/OW, is not ever brought up or truly thought about? Link to post Share on other sites
purplesorrow Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The thing is that if both the BS and the WS want to reconcile and are both committed to making a go of it, then does it really matter if ALL the gory details come out or not? Is this obsession with confession to the nth degree, really necessary? When a person chooses to date someone, they get into a mental place, where, what the other did with other women/other men is not even brought up or thought about. Most do not obsess over their partner's historic sex in the back of a pick up truck, with a prostitute or every night in bed with their ex partner. They do not need to know every detail of the other's historic love lives, for the relationship to grow and develop. They do not need each to spill all the beans before they can move on into a relationship with them. Is it not possible then, for married adults in R, to get into a mental place, where sex/love with the OM/OW, is not ever brought up or truly thought about? This isn't dating. This is someone's marriage, one that a WS didn't leave to be with another person. I could care less about the relationships he had before he met me. His affair while married to me put me in harms way physically, emotionally and could have been financially. He was making decisions about my life without my input or knowledge. So he!! Yes I want to know. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The thing is that if both the BS and the WS want to reconcile and are both committed to making a go of it, then does it really matter if ALL the gory details come out or not? Is this obsession with confession to the nth degree, really necessary? When a person chooses to date someone, they get into a mental place, where, what the other did with other women/other men is not even brought up or thought about. Most do not obsess over their partner's historic sex in the back of a pick up truck, with a prostitute or every night in bed with their ex partner. They do not need to know every detail of the other's historic love lives, for the relationship to grow and develop. They do not need each to spill all the beans before they can move on into a relationship with them. Is it not possible then, for married adults in R, to get into a mental place, where sex/love with the OM/OW, is not ever brought up or truly thought about? To answer your question ..YES it does matter if i ask for the Gory details..I want the truth...you have lied to me..deceived me and betrayed our marriage...You OWE me what I ask.. Then I will make a decision as to whether I want to Stay....You made Your decision to have an A...The decision to R is mine.. And NO most Bhs never forget the A or the sex acts that took place..There are Bhs on here and other sites that Trigger,have doubts and self esteem issues...YEARS after D-DAY...not days or months but YEARS..If this is R then you can keep it...I speak from experiance for I am one... Link to post Share on other sites
SincereOnlineGuy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Most people by now know that I'm pretty pro confession. I really don't believe that you should cover up a lie with another lie. I would like to hear people's opninions on why you should not tell. I definitely believe that there are certain circumstances that you should not confess. If you know the bs would harm you or themselves, if you already plan on leaving the relationship, or if the bs told you beforehand that they would not want to know provided you are recommitting yourself to the relationship. From my experience on here, the majority of Waywards that are not confessing are choosing not to because they know it's dealbreaker for their spouse. However the reason not to confess is masked with "I don't want to deflect my guilt on them." Personally I find that mindset rubbish, and I think they do as well. Again, I would love to hear thoughts on this issue? Anybody reading this can tell that you are a cheater, for your logic is screwed-up and self-serving. The common-sense approach is as follows: IF there is a realistic chance that your partner will find out about your cheating through other avenues, then you tell first, to spare the partner the additional hurt of having to find out through other avenues. However, IF there is no realistic chance that the partner would ever find out that you cheated, you say nothing and spare that partner the hurt you would cause. It's like adoption in some ways... where there is no significant drawback to being adopted... it's the knowing about it that can drive some people crazy (with self-destructive thinking). Your selfish inclination to wound your partner(s) emotionally when unnecessary is just your means of vastly reducing your own guilt over the matter. In words you can understand: I don't believe you should attempt to cover up your own selfishness with more selfishness. (but of course when you offer your stance to a vast number of cheaters you are effectively stacking the deck to further justify your own selfish thought processes) Link to post Share on other sites
OverIt75 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 First, its never really evil to be honest to loved ones. The affair was the evil, confessing isn't. Secondly, how's it going? Hopefully well. Hi DKT - I totally and completely agree. It's just that now I can look back and see what I was thinking, even if it didn't make any sense. I was scared out of my mind. And thanks for asking...we are doing pretty well, starting to have fun together again. I volunteered to put a GPS on my phone for him and have nothing password protected. Both in IC, spending lots of time together. Over time, it seems like our trajectory is headed in the right direction. If only I could go back and make a different choice... I hope you and Lovin are doing great! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 However, IF there is no realistic chance that the partner would ever find out that you cheated, you say nothing and spare that partner the hurt you would cause. Ok, well now we have an example of a guy who would not want to know. I knew they existed. I think they are rare. I don't care if it was a ONS with a person you did not know and could never find again if you wanted to, I'd still want to know about it. It changes who the cheater is, in the opinion of the BS. As one poster said, I'd rather be living the worst truth than the most awesome lie. It's like adoption in some ways... where there is no significant drawback to being adopted... it's the knowing about it that can drive some people crazy (with self-destructive thinking). Is is not at all like adoption. It can kill you even though you don't know about it. It will at the very least make your life a horrible lie, whether or not you ever find out about it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HereNorThere Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The simple answer is - If honesty was their strong point, they wouldn't be having an affair in the first place. I can't imagine someone suddenly having a a moment of integrity when their whole life is a lie. Deception comes easier than the truth for these people. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The simple answer is - If honesty was their strong point, they wouldn't be having an affair in the first place. I can't imagine someone suddenly having a a moment of integrity when their whole life is a lie. Deception comes easier than the truth for these people. Without a doubt....They have already Lied ,...betrayed the marriage and deceived us...does one really think they will suddenly become THE BEACON OF TRUTH...I dont think so.. They have shown who they are..whether the BS knows it yet or not... Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Absurd question. Any answer begs the freakin' question. If they'd had the character to confess, they would've avoided an affair in the first place. Doesn't everyone face temptation and attraction, even think they could or already did fall in love? Why do some people walk away and others don't? Whatever the reason, it would also be the reason why they'd feel it (un)necessary to own up to it later. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Absurd question. Any answer begs the freakin' question. If they'd had the character to confess, they would've avoided an affair in the first place. Doesn't everyone face temptation and attraction, even think they could or already did fall in love? Why do some people walk away and others don't? Whatever the reason, it would also be the reason why they'd feel it (un)necessary to own up to it later. B-I-N-G-O!!!!!!!!!! Times eleventy billion. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
sidney2718 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think you misinterpreted what I said. I will never justify cheating, even if you knew you were about to leave the relationship. My point is why add insult to injury. If you are already on your way out and there is no chance of fixing the relationship, then again, why add insult to injury? If you are not going to be there to build your partner up after breaking them down, then I see no point to confessing in that instance. But the cheater often does not know that they are on the way out. That's the point. If the BS can be convinced that nothing serious was going on, why would the marriage bust up. On the other hand, it might be that the WS knows that confession WOULD end the marriage. In that case the WS risks nothing by ducking questions and lying. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The thing is that if both the BS and the WS want to reconcile and are both committed to making a go of it, then does it really matter if ALL the gory details come out or not? Is this obsession with confession to the nth degree, really necessary? When a person chooses to date someone, they get into a mental place, where, what the other did with other women/other men is not even brought up or thought about. Most do not obsess over their partner's historic sex in the back of a pick up truck, with a prostitute or every night in bed with their ex partner. They do not need to know every detail of the other's historic love lives, for the relationship to grow and develop. They do not need each to spill all the beans before they can move on into a relationship with them. Is it not possible then, for married adults in R, to get into a mental place, where sex/love with the OM/OW, is not ever brought up or truly thought about? The analogy behind this assertion is flawed. The psychology, unsupported. Can't even see the wisdom, sensitivity or experience to justify it. Maybe it's just incomplete. Do you mean that in both situations - dating and marital reconciliation - motivated partners need to create a "mental place" to advance the relationship? That's possibly analogous if it were that simple. Problem is the lack of sound psychology. The trauma done to the BS, e.g., the loss of trust, is not conducive to the creation of mental places. The BS requires transparency to regain trust and creating mental places conducive to the relationship cannot weaken, hide or eradicate that requirement. The assertion also precludes other complex layers of vulnerability shared in long-term, exclusive relationships. To ignore the reality of Damage Done and the abc's of fixing it by comparing (and then judging) the importance of honesty in short- vs long-term relationships is just ignorant. Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Wow! This thread is getting to be ridiculous. I'm sure glad that all the BS's here know exactly what's in the mind of a WS. Unless you've been a WS you have no clue to what is in his or her mind. It's the same for a WS trying to state what's in a BS's head. Believe it or not, I was always a very honest person before my A. That's what caused me to become very conflicted in my A. I always valued honesty. Not everyone is conditioned to hide and lie. Nor is every WS a person with horrible characters. People make bad choices and sometimes people are actually shocked they made a choice like that and don't know how to proceed. Yes, I get the BS deserves to know, but fear of the unknown is a bitch. I did confess after I broke NC after my D Day. It was very hard and scary for me. I'm glad I did it, but I do understand why a lot of WS's choose not to. It doesn't mean that these WS's are horrible people who deserve to burn in hell. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Wow! This thread is getting to be ridiculous. I'm sure glad that all the BS's here know exactly what's in the mind of a WS. Unless you've been a WS you have no clue to what is in his or her mind. It's the same for a WS trying to state what's in a BS's head. Believe it or not, I was always a very honest person before my A. That's what caused me to become very conflicted in my A. I always valued honesty. Not everyone is conditioned to hide and lie. Nor is every WS a person with horrible characters. People make bad choices and sometimes people are actually shocked they made a choice like that and don't know how to proceed. Yes, I get the BS deserves to know, but fear of the unknown is a bitch. I did confess after I broke NC after my D Day. It was very hard and scary for me. I'm glad I did it, but I do understand why a lot of WS's choose not to. It doesn't mean that these WS's are horrible people who deserve to burn in hell. Cheating is essentially lieing and stealing combined with a premeditated purpose of destroying someone else to suit your own selfish needs. Does this make the person a bad person? Yes. Just like if you went into the store and robbed them. It makes you a theif. That would also make you a horrible person. So I know people don't like to hear that but its the truth. The part that makes this incredibly worse is you put people at risk for diseases and possibly some kind of physical attack. Sure you think you can be trusted with sleeping with someone and judging them to be a good partner but you already failed the basics. Does this mean you will be a horrible person for the rest of your life who knows. Only you can answer that. Some people actually change and atone to the horrible things they have done but clearly from most of the threads I have read most don't. I personally hope WS's get help and try to live a more healthy life. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The analogy behind this assertion is flawed. The psychology, unsupported. Can't even see the wisdom, sensitivity or experience to justify it. Maybe it's just incomplete. Do you mean that in both situations - dating and marital reconciliation - motivated partners need to create a "mental place" to advance the relationship? That's possibly analogous if it were that simple. Problem is the lack of sound psychology. The trauma done to the BS, e.g., the loss of trust, is not conducive to the creation of mental places. The BS requires transparency to regain trust and creating mental places conducive to the relationship cannot weaken, hide or eradicate that requirement. The assertion also precludes other complex layers of vulnerability shared in long-term, exclusive relationships. To ignore the reality of Damage Done and the abc's of fixing it by comparing (and then judging) the importance of honesty in short- vs long-term relationships is just ignorant. There surely has to be some mental place where the BS can go in order to finally accept the events, or are BSs continually in an angst ridden space forever, and true R is just a sham? Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The thing is that if both the BS and the WS want to reconcile and are both committed to making a go of it, then does it really matter if ALL the gory details come out or not? Is this obsession with confession to the nth degree, really necessary? If the BS feels it is necessary then YES, it is necessary. That should be common sense, shouldn't it? The wayward does not in any way, shape, or form get to dictate what details do or do not come out. The betrayed one does, and if they say they want every little detail then they better get every detail. When a person chooses to date someone, they get into a mental place, where, what the other did with other women/other men is not even brought up or thought about. Most do not obsess over their partner's historic sex in the back of a pick up truck, with a prostitute or every night in bed with their ex partner. They do not need to know every detail of the other's historic love lives, for the relationship to grow and develop. They do not need each to spill all the beans before they can move on into a relationship with them. Just wow, you are seriously comparing being with other people BEFORE the relationship to someone screwing other people while in a relationship. Seriously? If you cheat, you totally DO have to spill the beans, and you totally do have to give every detail. If a person doesn't like that then the answer would of been to not cheat. Is it not possible then, for married adults in R, to get into a mental place, where sex/love with the OM/OW, is not ever brought up or truly thought about? To be blunt? Nope, it's not possible. Stop acting like things they did with others before the relationship are on the same level as screwing around while in the relationship. On the other hand, it might be that the WS knows that confession WOULD end the marriage. In that case the WS risks nothing by ducking questions and lying. They risk nothing but having their spouse live the rest of their life as a lie. But hey, that is no big deal right? Wow! This thread is getting to be ridiculous. I'm sure glad that all the BS's here know exactly what's in the mind of a WS. Unless you've been a WS you have no clue to what is in his or her mind. It's the same for a WS trying to state what's in a BS's head. Believe it or not, I was always a very honest person before my A. That's what caused me to become very conflicted in my A. I always valued honesty. Not everyone is conditioned to hide and lie. Nor is every WS a person with horrible characters. People make bad choices and sometimes people are actually shocked they made a choice like that and don't know how to proceed. Yes, I get the BS deserves to know, but fear of the unknown is a bitch. I did confess after I broke NC after my D Day. It was very hard and scary for me. I'm glad I did it, but I do understand why a lot of WS's choose not to. It doesn't mean that these WS's are horrible people who deserve to burn in hell. "Fear of the unknown is a bitch" is not a valid excuse. Where was the fear of hurting your spouse via banging other dudes? How come there was no fear there? So you fear the unknown, but you don't fear the things that matter? Some might call that convenient. Afraid of the truth, but not afraid to betray. How's that even work? If you always valued honesty you'd of never cheated in the first place. If someone is shocked they made a crappy choice then okay, but you don't lie about it. If you always valued honesty it would not of taken you breaking NC in order to confess. You'd of confessed the moment you crossed a line. You talk about if someone is or is not horrible, it depends. If you have a premeditated affair? Yeah, that makes a person pretty damn despicable. That means they knowingly woke up in the morning knowing they would betray, and didn't care. Someone who is selfish and doesn't care if they ruin lives, and is cruel to the point where instead of discussing problems they deal with them via banging other dudes...well, you say that is not horrible, but I don't know how else you'd describe such a person. Merely saying "oh they made some bad choices" doesn't begin to do it justice. Of course you are going to say you understand. I've had the misfortune of noticing that the members here who are cheaters tend to be a lot more tolerant and "understanding" of these things. It's one reason I can't help feel amused whenever you see someone accusing a poster who has been betrayed of letting their own feelings cloud their judgement. Mostly because those that were betrayed aren't the only ones doing it, the betrayers do it too. Doesn't exactly make it right, but it certainly does balance things out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 There surely has to be some mental place where the BS can go in order to finally accept the events, or are BSs continually in an angst ridden space forever, and true R is just a sham? The thing you need to realize is no there is no mental place you can go to finally accept the events. If you want the truth? A person who has been cheated on will never just "accept" the events. There will never come a time when they don't think about it at all. There will never ever come a time where it is impossible for them to trigger. That is the kind of life a cheater has doomed their partner to. Even worse? A lot of the times the cheaters don't even care and will allow their partner to take them back. I've very rarely if ever seen a cheater say to their partner "you know, I cheated and I'd love if you took me back, but I recognize that the fact you would take me back for this shows you are not in the best place mentally right now, so I'm not going to take advantage of that any further, I am going to do the right thing and leave you alone." Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 There surely has to be some mental place where the BS can go in order to finally accept the events, or are BSs continually in an angst ridden space forever, and true R is just a sham? There is,do what i did ...FILE FOR D...and never look back.. I dont trigger...have esteem issues..nor do I EVER doubt what I did was Right for ME!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 There is,do what i did ...FILE FOR D...and never look back.. I dont trigger...have esteem issues..nor do I EVER doubt what I did was Right for ME!! This, times infinity. The only true cure for infidelity is divorce. Anything else? You just mask the symptoms. Link to post Share on other sites
Selfish Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 There is,do what i did ...FILE FOR D...and never look back.. I dont trigger...have esteem issues..nor do I EVER doubt what I did was Right for ME!! But yet you come on here an insult those who reconcile. If you truly had moved on you wouldn't be on here spreading your hatred of cheaters. If someone actually loves their spouse the descision to D is not so easy and the answer not so simple as many like to make out. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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