Author Fiction86 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 I appreciate your input and I think a lot of people are ignoring my point about how he doesn't want sex since the medication. He does try, he promises sex later in the night if I kiss his neck and he says "later" I'm just worried and I don't know what my options are. Do I start going out more? Do I get myself a sex toy? Do I stop initiating it altogether and see if he comes around?
SomeDude16 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I'd say get a sex toy and start going out more to keep your mind off things. It will take time but eventually he will come around and intimate. For all the bad days where he is just going through the motions because of his med's there is going to be that one great day where he feels good, initiates, and you have the best sex of your relationship. Just give it time, and do what you must to stay preoccupied 1
hotpotato Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I appreciate your input and I think a lot of people are ignoring my point about how he doesn't want sex since the medication. He does try, he promises sex later in the night if I kiss his neck and he says "later" I'm just worried and I don't know what my options are. Do I start going out more? Do I get myself a sex toy? Do I stop initiating it altogether and see if he comes around? We are not missing that. We are saying that if he can jerk off he should also be able to have sex. Something is not right. Either the meds are hurting his sex drive or they arent. Stop initiating and dont expect him to come around You cant make him want you whether or not its the meds Do go out more. Find a man who doesnt have more baggage than chicago ohare
hotpotato Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I'd say get a sex toy and start going out more to keep your mind off things. It will take time but eventually he will come around and intimate. For all the bad days where he is just going through the motions because of his med's there is going to be that one great day where he feels good, initiates, and you have the best sex of your relationship. Just give it time, and do what you must to stay preoccupied How much time should she give him, 5, 10 years?
Priv Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 You can't say it's the meds OR any other disorder if the only person he can't have sex with is her! His parts are working fine for porn. True, his junk is still somewhat working. 1/7th of the time for porn. Good for him! And no, hard to tell whether it is the depression or the drugs themselves decreasing his libido. How much time should she give him, 5, 10 years? About 8 months is the average for a major depressive episode. 1
elaine567 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 This is not a simple matter of just meds and and porn. I am guessing he was manic when you met, hence him being "sex mad", now he is depressed, he has immersed himself in porn and is excluding you, add in the effects of the meds, it is a perfect storm. Be very careful about what you are taking on here, you are in the honeymoon phase of your relationship, yet he is rejecting you favour of porn and is causing fights. He perhaps, as some have said, is not that into you any more, he is hardly going to admit that to your face is he? Especially as he is ill ATM, he may be simply using you as a crutch to lean on... I would run if were you, there is a whole heap of trouble in store for you here and it is you that is going to get seriously hurt. Read. Bipolar Disorder & Sex: From Hyper Sexuality to Low Sex Drive
Priv Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I appreciate your input and I think a lot of people are ignoring my point about how he doesn't want sex since the medication. He does try, he promises sex later in the night if I kiss his neck and he says "later" I'm just worried and I don't know what my options are. Do I start going out more? Do I get myself a sex toy? Do I stop initiating it altogether and see if he comes around? Depends. It does sound like he treats you very well even in his condition. What do you want? Can you live with less sex till he is off meds? Or not? Either way is fine. But whatever you do, stop making this about you, because it isn't. His libido has lessened due to the drugs. Don't make him feel more horrible about it than he already feels because he is depressed by starting fights about it. You already got him 'beat'. He is depressed. And no, he isn't lying to you. So ummm... kinda be there all the way for him, or don't be at all. 2
hotpotato Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) True, his junk is still somewhat working. 1/7th of the time for porn. Good for him! And no, hard to tell whether it is the depression or the drugs themselves decreasing his libido.[/Quote] If he knows he has a lower sex drive, he can drop the porn and have sex with her. Im willing to bet he watches a lot more porn than he lets on... About 8 months is the average for a major depressive episode. I hate to say this, but it wont get better anytine soon. Doing the math, op has already been going through this fir 6-7 months. Op, correct me if im wrong. Lets say it ends. Then what? Op goes through years of cycles of having her self esteem battered? He might be depressed, but he also does not want her sexually. Both can be and probably are true. Edited January 8, 2015 by hotpotato 1
SomeDude16 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 If he knows he has a lower sex drive, he can drop the porn and have sex with her. I hate to say this, but it wont get better anytine soon. Doing the math, op has already been going through this fir 6-7 months. Op, correct me if im wrong. Lets say it ends. Then what? Op goes through years of cycles of having her self esteem battered? He might be depressed, but he also does not want her sexually. Both can be and probably are true. The question is not whether she should leave him or not the question is how can she cope in the meantime. She can't force him to have sex, that's rape. It's clear he doesn't want to have sex with her because he knows that it's not going to fufill her needs so he's hoping she will buy a toy or something to make the time pass. He just has too much pride as a man to admit it would not be good sex. I really hope you never become depressed. 1
elaine567 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 If he knows he has a lower sex drive, he can drop the porn and have sex with her. That is the nub of the matter here. Sexuality During Depression When someone with bipolar disorder is at the other end of the spectrum and experiencing a depressive episode, just as the symptoms are the opposite from mania, so it is with sexuality. It is not uncommon for the person to experience low or diminished sex drive or hypo-sexuality. Hypo-sexuality and depression can be interrelated and for patients who are experiencing them, it can seem like and endless cycle. Depression can lead to lack of interest in sex and lack of interest in sex can lead to depression, particularly when the hypo-sexuality causes relationship problems and the other partner doesn’t understand the low desire issues. This is especially true when a person with bipolar disorder goes from an extreme mania high and having hyper-sexual behavior, to crashing into depression and suddenly losing their sex drive. It can leave the partner confused, dismayed, frustrated, and often feeling rejected. Low sex drive can also be a result of side effects of medication taken to treat the bipolar disorder. This can cause some patients to stop taking their medication, which can send them into either a manic or depressive episode. Further, the depression that accompanies bipolar disorder can also contribute to sexual dysfunction including erectile dysfunction in men. Lots of info here about depressed individuals having no interest in sex, low sex drive and even erectile disfunction, nothing about masturbating and preferring porn to real sex. There is more to this than just his depression and meds.
hotpotato Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 The question is not whether she should leave him or not the question is how can she cope in the meantime. She can't force him to have sex, that's rape. It's clear he doesn't want to have sex with her because he knows that it's not going to fufill her needs so he's hoping she will buy a toy or something to make the time pass. He just has too much pride as a man to admit it would not be good sex. I really hope you never become depressed. Being upset isnt an excuse to treat someone badly. If im depressed, im not going to pleasure myself and ignore my partner. In fact, when I was upset I wanted MORE sex with my then boyfriend. Ive been through things that would break people, but that doesnt mean it would be ok for me act like the ops bf. I agree that he knows he cant keep it up. He may know very well hes bored with her and more excited by porn, but hes not gonna come out and say that. Hes probably consuming more porn than she realizes. Even if hes not, hes still using what little energy he has for cyber sex. Of course, the sex will not be good. Best way to cope is to leave before she gets more entangled in his mess. Theres no reason for her to be a martyr and tolerate this treatment.
preraph Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Watching too much porn can make you impotent with real live sex. So if he's feeling "unreliable," yes, it could be meds, his mental condition, or porn. But he's still spending a lot of time with porn, so there is NO reason to think this time is unproductive or why would he keep doing it all the time? Either way and for whatever reason, he needs to shut off the porn and deal with this problem.
ascendotum Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Is he taking an SSRI? That type of medication can absolutely dull one's libido and genital sensitivity. When I was put on an SSRI (before they realized I had bipolar disorder and not clinical depression) the sexual side effects were severe for me and gave me outright inorgasmia. Initially it was just very difficult to orgasm, took much longer and a lot of stimulation and focus. Eventually as the medication built up in my system I completely lost my libido and my ability to orgasm. It was horrible. Sexual side effects like that are unfortunately very common with SSRI medications, which are typically used to treat depression. It could very easily be the meds, especially since he had a high libido in the past as well as using porn then. Porn use is probably a contributing factor though. Just because he is looking at pron don't necessarily assume he is still horny or having Os. If his libido has collapsed he will very much miss just being aroused and being able to have sexy thoughts about you or other women and being able to become aroused easily. With the meds he wont be able to do that anymore, and will definitely miss it so will use the porn to get aroused to feel that good normal horny alive feeling again, but of course it will only work temporary while he is viewing it. It will be addictive and with a much lower libido it could well mean he needs a higher threshold of stimulation to get aroused - ie hardcore or gorgeous women or just viewing new women. When he was healthy horny before his neurotransmitters could cope with a bit of porn viewing on the side, but quite likely now with the ADs his dopamine levels have been effected, so he cant handle both anymore. I would say both are problem, with the AD meds being the primary one and the porn the secondary one. He should talk to his doctor about trialling a new type of med that doesn't hammer his libido. Getting off the pron will also help but that will be tricky if he's still a bit depressed as it probably helped cheer him up, but he has to realize he is now making you sad.
SomeDude16 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Being upset isnt an excuse to treat someone badly. If im depressed, im not going to pleasure myself and ignore my partner. In fact, when I was upset I wanted MORE sex with my then boyfriend. Ive been through things that would break people, but that doesnt mean it would be ok for me act like the ops bf. You act like it's a conscious decision to be depressed and something people can turn on and off. Depression isn't just "being upset". I'm starting to think you don't even know what depression is. He has the option for sex, it's not like he's sitting alone in his grandmothers basement jerking off. He knows sex is there if he wants it,but he doesn't want it. He feels that RIGHT NOW the best thing for his HEALTH and MENTAL STATE is to not have sex, what's do hard to understand. The OP clearly thinks he's worth staying with so the best thing she can do is buy a toy and keep her mind occupied until he gets the urge back. @OP: why don't you take him with you to a sex shop and have him pick out a toy with you to use in the meantime. This way you both see you're both committed to the relationship and each other's needs and health despite the hard times. I genuinely think this might help both of you. 2
A O Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Modern day relationships are supposed to make you happy,not depressed. I'll cut to the chase - leave him. His words are meaningless, his actions reveal all. And trust has flown the coup in your relationship, an important dynamic that's unbelievably hard to rebuild. Otherwise, work out what you really perceive the problem to be and how you would like it to be resolved (or managed) then express this to him (adamantly) and observe to see if he makes the necessary changes that will help bring happiness back to yourself and hopefully the relationship. If the necessary changes aren't been made then go to a relationship councillor and if that too, fails or doesn't meat your expectations (namely you're still unhappy) then the course of action should be clear to you thereafter. Your happiness is paramount.
elaine567 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Modern day relationships are supposed to make you happy,not depressed. I'll cut to the chase - leave him. His words are meaningless, his actions reveal all. And trust has flown the coup in your relationship, an important dynamic that's unbelievably hard to rebuild. Otherwise, work out what you really perceive the problem to be and how you would like it to be resolved (or managed) then express this to him (adamantly) and observe to see if he makes the necessary changes that will help bring happiness back to yourself and hopefully the relationship. If the necessary changes aren't been made then go to a relationship councillor and if that too, fails or doesn't meat your expectations (namely you're still unhappy) then the course of action should be clear to you thereafter. Your happiness is paramount. Problem here is that he has a severe mental ilness, an illness that will likely come and go, so whilst he is rational it may be possible to discuss things sensibly and come to agreements, but when he is ill then that may be impossible. As this is a new relationship and he has been ill for 7 months ie more than 50% of it, then she should not see she has duty to stay and nurse him for the rest of her life. Major Depression/Bipolar or whatever he suffers from, is difficult enough to deal with by people in long term relationships, marriages and by relatives, The fact the OP was only in the relationship for 5 months before he became ill, means she is ill equipped to deal with this, as she barely knows him in reality. Also the side effects of antipsychotic medication which the OP says he is taking, do not include reduced sex drive, BUT he may also be on an antidepressants too, I do not know. Antipsychotics. Drugs - how do they work? | Patient.co.uk
Priv Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 That is the nub of the matter here. It isn't. Rubbing it off to some porn, even if you used to do it 10 times more often before meds (this is key), has nothing to do with the emotions, will, and most of all effort to have sex with someone when you are depressed. Also, he is not diagnosed as bipolar. The 'crazy' isn't in the depressive episode but in the manic period. Being upset isnt an excuse to treat someone badly. If im depressed, im not going to pleasure myself and ignore my partner. In fact, when I was upset I wanted MORE sex with my then boyfriend. Ive been through things that would break people, but that doesnt mean it would be ok for me act like the ops bf. He treats her like a queen. He makes her feel beautiful, special, and desired. Even though he does have a diminished sex drive. It is very clear you do not know what depression means. And he is not some *sshole for having it. But he's still spending a lot of time with porn, so there is NO reason to think this time is unproductive or why would he keep doing it all the time? Either way and for whatever reason, he needs to shut off the porn and deal with this problem. Yes an entire 1/7th of what he used to. Between 15% and 25 % percent of women get PDD depending on socioeconomic level. About 20% just your average run of the mill major depressive episode. What is a man to do? Say bye bye you horrible human being maybe? 'Thank you for wasting my time with your depressive moodswings so I can't keep up my happy buzz'. Right, I think so. OP wants to leave? Fine. But don't put this on him treating her 'horribly', your own insecurities and/or porn. It an illness. She does not want to deal with that it's all good. He will get out of it with or without her... 1
Priv Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Modern day relationships are supposed to make you happy,not depressed. I'll cut to the chase - leave him. His words are meaningless, his actions reveal all. And trust has flown the coup in your relationship, an important dynamic that's unbelievably hard to rebuild. Otherwise, work out what you really perceive the problem to be and how you would like it to be resolved (or managed) then express this to him (adamantly) and observe to see if he makes the necessary changes that will help bring happiness back to yourself and hopefully the relationship. If the necessary changes aren't been made then go to a relationship councillor and if that too, fails or doesn't meat your expectations (namely you're still unhappy) then the course of action should be clear to you thereafter. Your happiness is paramount. Yep, modern day relationships to the tee. I am so proud of this age. 1
TheGuard13 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Depressed or not, I think he has a duty to manage his issues, in this case, his mental illness, and to make some effort here, even if he's just "faking it" in a sense. Especially if he bothers with porn. If he makes no effort, and he's not trying different meds, treatments, etc...then I see no reason why she shouldn't leave him if this is a serious problem for her. Especially if he hasn't made a good faith effort and what he's doing isn't enough for her. 1
hotpotato Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 You act like it's a conscious decision to be depressed and something people can turn on and off. Depression isn't just "being upset". I'm starting to think you don't even know what depression is. [/Quote] Im starting to think *you* dont know what depression is! Like I said ive been through stuff that would break people. I know what depression is. Depression is crying your eyes out in bed, cant move cuz youre in shock/catatonic because life gives you a raw deal.Depression is wanting to drive through a red light so you can end it all. Anyway, he may be depressed, but thats not the whole story. It would be like if I had a boyfriend. Im in bed reading 50 shades of grey. Then my bf makes a pass at my and I shoo him away because supposedly im depressed and not horny. That doesnt make any sense. He has the option for sex, it's not like he's sitting alone in his grandmothers basement jerking off. He knows sex is there if he wants it,but he doesn't want it. He feels that RIGHT NOW the best thing for his HEALTH and MENTAL STATE is to not have sex, what's do hard to understand. The OP clearly thinks he's worth staying with so the best thing she can do is buy a toy and keep her mind occupied until he gets the urge back.[/Quote] How do you know this urge is gonna come back? Most likely, this is gonna be the norm I her a relationship. Ops bf doesnt sound like a catch even aside from rejecting her. If hes that bad off, then he needs to break up with her. If he knows he cant take care of anyone but himseld, then he should let her go. There is nothing major holding them together ( marriage vows, kids, etc). Im sure op sees something in him, but she needs to jump ship pronto. Maybe go out and date other men. That would be a good coping strategy. @OP: why don't you take him with you to a sex shop and have him pick out a toy with you to use in the meantime. This way you both see you're both committed to the relationship and each other's needs and health despite the hard times. I genuinely think this might help both of you. Why bother bringing him? Op, is that the kind of sex life you want?
elaine567 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 It isn't. Rubbing it off to some porn, even if you used to do it 10 times more often before meds (this is key), has nothing to do with the emotions, will, and most of all effort to have sex with someone when you are depressed. Also, he is not diagnosed as bipolar. The 'crazy' isn't in the depressive episode but in the manic period. He is not on normal antidepressants he is on antipsychotics, which is the treatment for bipolar or schizophrenia mainly, but can be used in major depression or anxiety. My reason for thinking he is most likely bipolar is because he is described as "sex mad", and hypersexuality is a sign of bipolar.
hotpotato Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) He treats her like a queen. He makes her feel beautiful, special, and desired. Even though he does have a diminished sex drive. It is very clear you do not know what depression means. And he is not some *sshole for having it.[/Quote] He says nice things, but his actions say otherwise. He knows what to say to keep her from leaving. Having depression shouldnt make someone an ahole. Rejecting your partner does. Spending supposedly scarce sexual energy elsewhere does. Edited January 9, 2015 by hotpotato
elaine567 Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 He says nice things, but his actions say otherwise. He knows what to say to keep her from leaving. Having depression should make someone an ahole. Rejecting your partner does. Spending supposedly scarce sexual energy elsewhere does. He rejects her and tells her "later" and they can only have sex in bed, smacks of being a bit controlling, that is not treating her like a queen nor does it I suggest make her "feel beautiful, special and desired." He has what sounds like premature ejaculation, yet "He tells me I'm explosive in bed and he does come really fast with me, he tells me he can't help how quick he comes because I'm so attractive. " Yeah right!
A O Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Problem here is that he has a severe mental ilness, an illness that will likely come and go, so whilst he is rational it may be possible to discuss things sensibly and come to agreements, but when he is ill then that may be impossible. This is simply another issue to be overcome,and like all issues - communication is the solution. In this instance though, the communication might best be directed inwards,towards the partner of the person with the illness as opposed to (or in conjunction with) the person with the illness. The bottom line here is crystal clear - the OP isn't happy so what can be done to bring happiness back to her. If giving this relationship a real go is what will make her happy, then suggestions that will help her achieve this aim have been stated. But yes, the OP is on a bit of a hiding to nothing here, that is something that she needs to realize.
welshbambi Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 OK I haven't read every post in detail here, so apologies if I repeat anything. There are three things at play here: - A high level of porn activity is "normal" in his life - in my experience 4 times a day for a healthy male is waaaay too much. Even if he is not watching as much now, it is still on a par with actually having sex - The mental health issues - these are so complex and it is slightly different for each person. He might not actually be able to cope with the emotional intimacy that comes with sex. Watch this YouTube vid for a very simple way to understand what someone who is suffering from a depressive disorder might be experiencing - The lack of willingness to discuss the issue in any way, complete rebuffal in fact OP you need to think very carefully about your next move. If you choose to stay, and that would be admirable, you are going to need to change your attitude. People suffering from depression know that they are not "at their best" for their loved ones and can often feel HUGELY guilty about this. Constantly pushing for sex, whether wearing sexy things or being suggestive, whatever, will only be adding to any guilt he is experiencing. You need to accept that this could be a long journey and you will need to back off on the sex issue until he is in a better place. Focus instead on making sure he is eating properly and sleeping properly. Provide reassurance through respect for his space and gentle, affection. Otherwise you are just pressuring him, emasculating him and compounding the issue. On the other hand, you guys have not been together long. Supporting someone with a mental health issue can be totally worth the fight IF both parties are committed to working through it together. But make absolutely no mistake about it, it is beyond difficult. You will question yourself, your self esteem will be tested, your patience. I really cannot explain how helpless you feel. You need to make sure you are giving yourself care and love as well as him. You cannot help him if you break yourself. Be prepared that he might not want to accept your offer of support and help. That will not be because you aren't good enough. He quite simply might not be able to recognise your intentions and will see it as another thing to worry about. Lastly, it is entirely right to think about your long term future together. It does not make you a bad person if you decide that perhaps you are not equipped to cope with this for the long haul. If he is not going to try to take positive steps by going to therapy, whether alone or with you, then I can tell you for free that you will be miserable. I've been there. It was awful to be rejected and welcomed back on a daily basis. Don;t make any snap discussions but your immediate action needs to be to stop pushing for sex all the time. Once a week is still good going so just be happy with that. Accept that you can't "fix" him. Don't try. Support him if he allows. If he doesn't, think long and hard about spending the rest of your life being shut out. Read up as much as you can about his condition and his medications. Really try to understand his perspective and what he might be experiencing. I found it helpful to visit mental health forums and actually ask sufferers rather than textbook explanations. Once you have done that you might understand his behaviours a little better. THEN you can decide what is the root cause of the problem. Chin up, and most of all, take care of yourself too. 2
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