Meeting with an attorney in the morning

[kenmore]

I'm just trying to get some advice. I think our divorce should be amicable and straightforward, and my wife said she will work with me to assure things are fair, but we have a prenupt, and some of the wording worries me.

 

I will never sign one again! Things change DUH!

 

Mainly I think what would give me peace of mind is mediation. If she and I could meet with someone and put the details in writing and things are as we should both want them, I will rest easier, but I resist just putting in a default and letting the system have its way. I have been trampled by the system too many times to trust my future to it.

 

I sent my wife an email tonight asking for mediation...we'll see. We have both tried to be kind to one another since we have known each other and even through this process, but she has already done something "against her wishes" at the advice of her attorney, so that gives me a very uneasy vibe.

 

If anyone has any last minute thoughts about an attorney meeting in a simple yet worrying case, I'll check in in the morning and read them. I would appreciate any experiences about what to watch out for in a "simple" case, so I know what to ask her.

 

Take care, and please wish me luck!

 

Ken

[Yasuandio]

Here is your advice.

 

No one does what thet pay their attorney to tell them to do "against their wishes." Your wife is pulling the wool over your eyes, and blaming her conscious choice to take her attorney's advice. which was based on information SHE PROVIDED TO HER ATTORNEY), on her Attorney. In other words, her attorney did not force her to take any actions, on the contrary, she is paying the attorney to takr action - that is the reality.

 

In your meeting with your Attorney, you must act in your own best interests, as she is doing.

 

Read me loud and clear. How much sense does it make to pay an Attorney to take action "against your wishes?" DUH? She is just trying to give you the "velvet eff." Then, you will factor in how nice and thoughtful is being, that actually, the Attorney has her hands tied, and a knife to her back, poor girl. Your wife's statement to you is code for: Go easy on her (so you will indirectly screw yourself).

 

Repeat, tomorrow, you will be forced to take your Attorney's advice (against your wishes), Kenmore. Make sure to shed a tear when the time comes that she flips out, and you must break this sad news. Good luck with your meeting. Yas

[BetrayedH]

I don't know what "simple" means.

 

In my case, we scheduled a date for mediation. My wife was in one room with her attorney and I was in another with mine. We paid a third attorney as the mediator and he literally went back and forth. The third attorney cost like $250 an hour and we each wrote a check at the end of the day to equally share his cost. We started working off of a draft agreement (one that I had prepared, I think) and then suggested modified language back and forth until we were done.

 

Mine was not simple but very complex. We have two kids together and had a lot of shared debts and assets. It took 6 hours to hammer out custody issues and another 4 to settle everything else. It was a long day but we had both signed a written agreement at the end of the day, which was then submitted to the court for approval. I was officially divorced two weeks later.

 

Typically, I recommend getting to that day as soon as humanly possible. Lawyers make a ton doing bullcrap work up until that point and both parties get manipulated and angry. It took me 10 months to get to mediation and 10 hours to resolve everything once we did.

 

One caveat...do NOT enlist a free or cheap mediator. This is a situation where you get what you pay for. My current GF used a cheap mediator and they were useless.

[LoveMyCat]

I'm just trying to get some advice. I think our divorce should be amicable and straightforward, and my wife said she will work with me to assure things are fair, but we have a prenupt, and some of the wording worries me.

 

I will never sign one again! Things change DUH!

 

Mainly I think what would give me peace of mind is mediation. If she and I could meet with someone and put the details in writing and things are as we should both want them, I will rest easier, but I resist just putting in a default and letting the system have its way. I have been trampled by the system too many times to trust my future to it.

 

I sent my wife an email tonight asking for mediation...we'll see. We have both tried to be kind to one another since we have known each other and even through this process, but she has already done something "against her wishes" at the advice of her attorney, so that gives me a very uneasy vibe.

 

If anyone has any last minute thoughts about an attorney meeting in a simple yet worrying case, I'll check in in the morning and read them. I would appreciate any experiences about what to watch out for in a "simple" case, so I know what to ask her.

 

Take care, and please wish me luck!

 

Ken

 

I saw an attorney today for first time since my husband and I separated. I told him that I hope we can make our own agreement, rather than let a judge decide, as I really do not want much from him. I do not want to make his future life difficult, he has been unhappy for a long time, mostly due to his job, and he can finally retire this year. The lawyer understood but immediately started telling me how I should ask for much more, etc...so I think they always do that. He says I am entitled to half of his retirement account, etc...as well as spousal support. All I really want is half of any profit from house when he gets it sold.

 

Anyway, just saying that lawyers will push you to go for more. It might be in my best interests to "take" all I am legally entitled to, but I want to keep this as amiable as possible and allow him to be able to go forward and have a decent life. I will be okay as I have minimal needs and expenses. But lawyers don't see it that way

[Radu]

OP, there are 2 possibilities :

- she is tricking you [subconscious decision, greed got to her] to set you up.

One example from my cousin's divorce; he had to pay monthly child support, but she had debts and he wanted the money to go to the kid.

So he decided to pay in goods.

She went with him shopping on Saturday, took the stuff, but did not sign anything.

On Sunday she was nice on the phone.

My mom smelled a rat [very unusual behaviour for her], and with his divorce attorney checked the filing on Monday.

Monday morning, just 30min after opening hs, her attorney filed a motion to reduce his rights for refusal to support his child.

It would not have worked, but this + others would have been enough long term for the court to reduce his rights, to show that he is a careless father.

Now the money is deposited to her account with a reason, and the account #'s are written in the settlement.

- attorneys make money when there is conflict, they are cockroaches that feed on human misery [literally].

They will always make more money when a D is contested, when there is bad blood.

The attorney might be pouring gas on the flames, but your future ex is still the one to pull the trigger on this.

 

Either way, you should hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

[kenmore]

Thanks all!

 

I have to get ready to go, but I'll comment more when I get back. I will keep what you all said in mind as I talk to her.

 

Ken

[DivorcedDad123]

In my case mediation was a waste of time and money,but it was ordered so we had to.

It can be eye opening as you'll get to see what your wife REALLY wants out of the divorce. Mine wanted half the equity in the home,spousal support,child support,her legal fees paid, her debts since she left the marital home paid,etc..

The mediator tried to tell me what the judge would do and that she would get all that she was asking for. I told him "No way! Case law says she won't".

He stopped talking to me at that point.

In the end,she got nothing except child support. I let the judge decide and he followed case law.

Take my word for it. NOBODY is looking out for you.Not her atty,your atty,the judge,the mediator....NOBODY. You have to stand up for yourself,learn the ins and outs of family court,learn case law in your state/jursidiction,and trust no one.

Attorneys talk to one another. They talk to the judges. They socialize together. Then, in the courtroom they act like they can't stand one another.

If I had trusted the mediator and settled,I'd have been in a world of hurt.

[carhill]

Reading this thread should provide some background:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/506248-caught-offguard-about-divorce#post6052965

 

It doesn't appear there are children of the marriage, though it appears each party had a child of their own, of various age ranges.

 

It appears there is no abuse, infidelity, illegal acts nor substantive rancor and the parties have been living separately for a short period.

 

My advice would be to work with the lawyer to find one thing you want out of this process and focus on that. What that one thing is is your decision to make.

 

In our case, we settled nearly 1MM in assets without rancor with the mediation assistance provided by self-help. Why? Because we wanted to settle things out in a fair and amicable fashion, and did. Nobody 'won', as there are no winners and losers in divorce, only various levels of loss. Ours was an acceptable level of loss and we didn't enrich lawyers in the process, which I personally viewed as a win, since I enrich lawyers in other ways.

 

Be straight up with your lawyer; have all the facts and documents relevant to the marriage and divorce in front of you. Keep it simple. Each minute they spend on things once you retain them costs a goodly amount of money. The more efficient you are, the more help you can afford to buy, or the less money you'll have to spend. Good luck!

[d0nnivain]

You have a prenup. It controls. You don't need a mediator. If you are trying to break the prenup that won't happen without a long expensive court fight. Don't waste your time on mediation.

 

 

When you meet with the lawyer, bring the pre nup.

[carhill]

I disagree. The parties can agree to anything, prenup or not. Yes, the lawyer should have that information up front but there's nothing in the OP's statments which state or infer he's seeking court action to break the prenup. He states some of the wording 'worries me'. A lawyer can clarify that.

 

Are you a lawyer? I ask because this is a lay forum for lay people to discuss their issues and professionals should not be holding themselves out as superior to lay people in this regard as it is prohibited by the forum's guidelines and policies.

[BlueIris]

I’d ask the lawyer, and look up online, what needs to be covered in your judgment/decree and make a comprehensive list so you cover everything. I’d also ask the lawyer his or her opinion of likely outcomes, what is allowed and not allowed, what a judge would or would not sign off on. It looks like you're already on your way to the atty though.

 

Other than that, I agree with carhill that you and your STBX ought to be able to negotiate terms you want. I don’t see why you couldn’t reach a mutual agreement to modify or set aside the prenup. It’s good you both have lawyers. It could help decrease the likelihood of someone later claiming misunderstanding, coercion, duress, etc. after agreement. It would give me much more peace of mind if both my STBX and I received legal advice before signing.

 

It’s great that you’re working together.

 

Good luck!

[kenmore]

Thanks everyone!

 

Here's the thing: She has money I don't. She "consulted" with an attorney, though I have no idea of the details, most likely it was a very short session with minimal advice. My meeting this morning was free, and I got what I paid for (more actually), but it was far from satisfying. It was what I expected though and I'm glad I went! We are both representing ourselves in this case.

 

Only three things came out which seem relevant to me but they are fairly big. The biggest is that she feels the petition is poorly filled out and basically leaves a lot open-ended. The second is that the prenupt (from Rocketlawyer) is probably not binding because it is missing several key ingredients. The last is that I could get together with my wife, create an agreement and file a "default with agreement" for free (saving myself $475.)

 

That said, she also told me that even though the house we bought while married is hers (I quitdeeded it to her), any equity increase is half mine. There is nothing about it in the petition (or the prenupt obviously since we acquired the house later.) It simply states for the court to determine the property division.

 

So, I may file the response (as she wishes) and let the chips fall where they may. Like you love my cat, I am not looking for anything from her. She works hard for her money and has for a very long time. I don't feel I have a right to any of it, but I don't want to be hosed either.

 

While re-reading everything, I did notice something on the petition I hadn't noticed before the meeting this morning: She filed for both legal separation and dissolution, but next to where it says dissolution, it is typed *(dissolution in the alternative.) Looking this term up, the only references to it I can find are for a "nullity or dissolution in the alternative", meaning if a nullity can't be won, the dissolution will proceed instead. I can't figure out what it means here. Given the term, it would imply that if a separation isn't agreed to, the dissolution will proceed, but if I agree to the separation, it won't? That may be a HUGE thing.

[d0nnivain]

Law & divorce are not do it yourself exercises. Please reconsider hiring a lawyer to protect your own interests. The right lawyer won't make things adversarial but will make sure all the I's are dotted & the T's are crossed.

 

Many family lawyers will charge an affordable fee for an amiable divorce but it will cost more if the lawyer has to undo all the things that got screwed up before the lawyer's involvement.

[kenmore]

I am really beginning to agree that I need a lawyer. Not necessarily to go to court, but just to make sure things get filed properly beforehand. I thought this lawyer today was good as far as I could tell in 10 min, so I think I'll ask her rates. My guess is an hour should do it.

 

More new info: Apparently even though I quitdeed my wife the house, half of the value is still apparently mine since it was bought post-marriage. All the quitdeed does is to make her sole title holder, but that does not affect value. She has paid for it with community money (that she earned.) I still don't want to make her pay me for it since it was her money in every way except legally, but it is a bargaining chip. If I do nothing except file a response, the court will decide on how to divvie it up, and likely award me half of the equity.

 

I called and asked my attorney what the term "dissolution in the alternative" means in this case and she confided she didn't know. One thing I will do if I hire her is to have her look it up. I have no idea why it's there. It was typed in, not part of the form, so someone put it in there for a reason.

[DivorcedDad123]

Yes, get an attorney. There can be big consequences with an "and" or an "or" in the wrong place.

Just manage your attorney as well and don't go him/her over every little thing. It gets costly.

Dissolution of marriage means that you aren't contesting and that you agree with the settlement offered. You would have to sign the seperation agreement first. A dissolution simply means you don't want to go to court.

I'm guessing that "in the alternative" means you're doing this as an alternative to divorce(which would be heard before a judge).

This is why you need an attorney.

[LoveMyCat]

I am really beginning to agree that I need a lawyer. Not necessarily to go to court, but just to make sure things get filed properly beforehand. I thought this lawyer today was good as far as I could tell in 10 min, so I think I'll ask her rates. My guess is an hour should do it.

 

More new info: Apparently even though I quitdeed my wife the house, half of the value is still apparently mine since it was bought post-marriage. All the quitdeed does is to make her sole title holder, but that does not affect value. She has paid for it with community money (that she earned.) I still don't want to make her pay me for it since it was her money in every way except legally, but it is a bargaining chip. If I do nothing except file a response, the court will decide on how to divvie it up, and likely award me half of the equity.

 

I called and asked my attorney what the term "dissolution in the alternative" means in this case and she confided she didn't know. One thing I will do if I hire her is to have her look it up. I have no idea why it's there. It was typed in, not part of the form, so someone put it in there for a reason.

 

I did a free consultation yesterday, and really liked the lawyer. He gave me quite a bit of time, tons of information, and what it would cost, one price for uncontested, another for contested. He admitted we could file our own papers if we agree on everything, as we do not have kids and only one house of which to work out the details. Maybe you can get a free session.

[Yasuandio]

I am really beginning to agree that I need a lawyer.

 

Yes, that would be a good idea.

 

Not necessarily to go to court, but just to make sure things get filed properly beforehand.

 

Yep. That would be another good idea.

 

I thought this lawyer today was good as far as I could tell in 10 min, so I think I'll ask her rates. My guess is an hour should do it.

 

Hmmm. So, after a ten minute meet & greet, ya really think you can wrap this baby up in about an hour, eh?

 

More new info: Apparently even though I quitdeed my wife the house, half of the value is still apparently mine since it was bought post-marriage. All the quitdeed does is to make her sole title holder, but that does not affect value. She has paid for it with community money (that she earned.) I still don't want to make her pay me for it since it was her money in every way except legally, but it is a bargaining chip.

 

My only question is, why wouldn't you wish to have what you are legally entitled to? Could it be that you want to stay in her good graces so she might come back to you? Sorry, I had to ask.

 

If I do nothing except file a response, the court will decide on how to divvie it up, and likely award me half of the equity.

 

Well, you devoted a portion of your life, emotions, hopes and dreams towards this union, a contract with your wife. Why should you walk away with less than half just because she determined she doesn't care to continue her contractual agreement with you any longer?

 

I called and asked my attorney what the term "dissolution in the alternative" means in this case and she confided she didn't know. One thing I will do if I hire her is to have her look it up.

 

That's a good sign that the attorney is honest about not knowing a legal term. I wonder if she has a copy of Black's Law Dictionary on her desk, or a Legal Search Engine on her computer? I would find another Attorney that will talk to you more than 10 minutes. Furthermore, I would bring those papers to the appointment so you can be provided an accurate assessment of how much hot water your in.

 

I have no idea why it's there. It was typed in, not part of the form, so someone put it in there for a reason.

 

Yep. Whatever is written in a legal document is usually there for a reason. And you can probably gather, from the get go, it is not there to help you.

 

 

You need a decent Attorney. Decent Attorneys cost money. Once you retain your decent Attorney, remember, as DD123 states, YOUR ATTORNEY IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. No yap yap, talkie-talk, just business, bottom line, the attorney is not a psychologist.

 

I will also add, that, not that your wife wishes a divorce, you must view her differently. For example, YOUR WIFE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. I hope you can understand this concept right away, before you shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[Kenmore, you tried to shoot yourself in the foot when you quitdeeded the home to your wife. You're darn lucky she didn't sell it and spend the money. She could have pulled that off, since your name is not on the deed. In fact, if you keep dragging your feet, she just might sell the place, and disappear the money. These things happen. The Law, at this moment "unshooted" your foot as far as your interest in the home equity. So, please, wise up, and get represented, and take your share. She will be mad as a hornet's nest, natually, cause she expected you to lie down and get walked on, and then hand over all assets on a silver platter.

 

Once you give her this suggested paradigm shift, she is going to fall in love with you. Just stay low, and keep you lip zipped. You won't want her after this matter is settled. Thur this process, IF you act in your own best interests, you will regain your self respect and confidence once again. A year from now, when you reflect on what she was about to allow you to do, it will make you gag. I can tell you are a decent guy, you've just been beaten down. Stop giving. Start taking yourself back. Done and done. Over and out. Yas

[kenmore]

Well, the free session was this one. I know it's a courtesy and a marketing technique, and I did get some good answers from her, but if I really want her to spend time, read everything thoroughly and give me good advice, I feel I must pay her. she asked $275/hr. Does that seem reasonable?

 

DivorcedDad, there seems to be a specific meaning in the term dissolution in the alternative. In the case of a nullity (which can be difficult to get), it makes dissolution an alternative so if the nullity is unobtainable, the dissolution takes over. What is making it odd is that this is in conjunction with a separation which is the easiest thing to get...but I must agree to it.

[LoveMyCat]

Well, the free session was this one. I know it's a courtesy and a marketing technique, and I did get some good answers from her, but if I really want her to spend time, read everything thoroughly and give me good advice, I feel I must pay her. she asked $275/hr. Does that seem reasonable?

 

DivorcedDad, there seems to be a specific meaning in the term dissolution in the alternative. In the case of a nullity (which can be difficult to get), it makes dissolution an alternative so if the nullity is unobtainable, the dissolution takes over. What is making it odd is that this is in conjunction with a separation which is the easiest thing to get...but I must agree to it.

 

If it was a free consultation, why do you feel you have to pay her? Especially if you do not feel she took her time. The one I saw went over every penny with me and I have not even hired him as yet. I will use him, though, as he was so helpful and understood that I am not out to "get" my ex in any way.

 

Good luck...it is a tough process, no matter what.

[DivorcedDad123]

Did a quick google search. Not sure if I can post the links,so here's some quotes from atty websites. I think you're mis-interpreting.

 

"If there are no issues in dispute between spouses who agree that their marriage is over, dissolution is an alternative to divorce for giving legal recognition to the end of the marriage in Ohio. "

"

For Dissolution to Work, You Need to Agree About Everything

 

In theory, dissolution is a remarkably simple approach to ending a marriage. You and your spouse file a petition for dissolution together with a separation agreement. As long as all of the provisions of your agreement satisfy the basic legal requirements, your petition will be approved and your marriage will be dissolved, just as if you had filed for divorce."

 

Another site

"

How Is Dissolution Different Than Divorce?

 

The number one distinction between divorce and dissolution is that in dissolution there is no litigation. Typically, both spouses have agreed ahead of time on the major issues involved in their split and are ready to go their separate ways. In this situation, we simply ensure that everything is filed with the court in an appropriate fashion.

The Benefits of Dissolution

 

Dissolution is often a more desirable option for couples than going through the divorce process. Dissolution has a number of benefits, such as:

• Increased efficiency
  
• Reduced cost
  
• Minimized court involvement
  
• More control over the outcome
  
• Ability to come to your own property division settlement
  

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=#333333]This is why you definately need an atty.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[DivorcedDad123]

Basically,what you're W's atty has done is word it so that no matter what,as long as you sign the paper,your W gets what she wants,with no contest from you.

Remember, an atty can't work for two clients divorcing one another. A person can "waive their right to an atty" and use one of their SO's choosing, but guess who that atty's looking out for? The one paying!

 

Too many people think the atty is looking out for both interests if it's not contested and one spouse has hired the atty to " make things go smoother and cheaper". Many are snookered and realize it only after signing.

Edited January 8, 2015 by DivorcedDad123
Added

[kenmore]

Yas, thanks! you make many good points. To answer your question "My only question is, why wouldn't you wish to have what you are legally entitled to? Could it be that you want to stay in her good graces so she might come back to you? Sorry, I had to ask.", it's how I am. In order to maintain my own self-respect, I only want what's mine in life. I gave in the marriage, no doubt. She paid in the marriage, no doubt. I got something from her paying all of those years and she got something from me in the form of taking care of so many things that needed taking care of. We're basically even. I am not looking for more from her.

 

"Well, you devoted a portion of your life, emotions, hopes and dreams towards this union, a contract with your wife. Why should you walk away with less than half just because she determined she doesn't care to continue her contractual agreement with you any longer?" True! It's so hard to put a value on "life" or how much someone "taking care of things at home" is worth, so that's why I don't want to go there. I do feel that if she paid for something, regardless of how Ca law sees it, she should be entitled to it.

 

"If it was a free consultation, why do you feel you have to pay her? Especially if you do not feel she took her time. The one I saw went over every penny with me and I have not even hired him as yet. I will use him, though, as he was so helpful and understood that I am not out to "get" my ex in any way.

 

Good luck...it is a tough process, no matter what." Thanks lovemycat! I don't feel I should pay her for today's consult, but I feel I need to pay someone to give me an honest assessment. What you said does make me think I should shop around though. You may be right that even though it was free, she should have given me more thought.

 

DivorcedDad, thank you too! I have never seen those definitions, and from what I had read so far, a dissolution of marriage and a divorce are the same thing. Obviously there's more than meets the eye. Perhaps the laws are different here. That said, the actual petition has three options to select: Nullity of marriage, legal separation and Dissolution of marriage. Adjacent to the term "Dissolution of marriage" it was specifically typed "*Dissolution in alternative". It seems odd it was typed in to make the distinction you mention. I guess I had better find out!

[Yasuandio]

Here is another quick search that might be helpful, through an abstract application.

 

Define Velvet (vĕl vıt)

 

Noun

 

1. (Textiles)

 

a. A fabric of silk, cotton, nylon, etc., with a thick close soft usually lustrous pile.

 

b. (as modifier): Velvet curtains.

 

2. Anything with a smooth soft surface.

 

a. Smoothness, softness.

b. (as modifer) Velvet skin, velvet night.

 

3. (Zoology) The soft deciduous covering of newly formed growing antlers.

 

4. Informal. Gambling (except cards).

 

a. Gambling or speculative winnings.

 

b. Clear gain or profit, esp when unexpectedly high.

 

5. Also, vel'vet•ed. Made or covered in velvet.

 

6. Velvet glove gentleness or caution, often concealing strength or determination (esp in the phrase "an iron fist" or "hand in a velvet glove")

 

[Veluet, from Old French "veluotte," from velu meaning "hairy," from Vulgar Latin "villutus," (unattested), from Latin "villus," meaning shaggy hair].

 

Interesting word. Yas

[kenmore]

Here is another quick search that might be helpful, through an abstract application.

 

Define Velvet (vĕl vıt)

 

Noun

 

1. (Textiles)

 

a. A fabric of silk, cotton, nylon, etc., with a thick close soft usually lustrous pile.

 

b. (as modifier): Velvet curtains.

 

2. Anything with a smooth soft surface.

 

a. Smoothness, softness.

b. (as modifer) Velvet skin, velvet night.

 

3. (Zoology) The soft deciduous covering of newly formed growing antlers.

 

4. Informal. Gambling (except cards).

 

a. Gambling or speculative winnings.

 

b. Clear gain or profit, esp when unexpectedly high.

 

5. Also, vel'vet•ed. Made or covered in velvet.

 

6. Velvet glove gentleness or caution, often concealing strength or determination (esp in the phrase "an iron fist" or "hand in a velvet glove")

 

[Veluet, from Old French "veluotte," from velu meaning "hairy," from Vulgar Latin "villutus," (unattested), from Latin "villus," meaning shaggy hair].

 

Interesting word. Yas

 

It's an awesome word! I knew what you meant. Basically the gentle FU.

 

For what it's worth Yas, I am beginning to feel differently about her and the situation. I know I need to get nasty and to fight for my rights and I always get around to that, but you would be surprised how long I can go trying to make what I want to happen with my reason. My wife knows too, and that's why she's pushing. she knows eventually the gloves will come off and I am not sure why she wants this. I think it's part of the female desire to be controlled, dominated and (in her case) abused regardless of how the situation is unfolding. I have no problem being that way in the bedroom (not abusive), but I respect a woman's rights and feelings in day-to-day events, but she always pushed for me to push back which I did because I had to. It's not my nature and I think we we're so compatible in so many ways, we were not in this one. Basically, she has had an abusive dad and no other man can ever take his place in that respect, even though it involves no respect at all. That's my big FAIL...or really hers.

 

Wow, that came out of the blue! I was just trying to reply and it just came out! I didn't even consciously realize it was in there!

 

Thanks again, I think you just gave me a new bargaining tool! Do I want her to come back? of course! I love her with all my heart, but over time I realize more and more how I didn't fulfill her needs, and that only makes it more hopeless. In the last half year I learned so much, but too late...it happens and obviously since I was not meeting her needs, it didn't matter; It would have been too late years ago.

 

That's a huge fringe benefit of this place, different people can lend insights that can really supplement one's own.

 

Thanks to all my friends!

 

Ken

Edited January 8, 2015 by kenmore
Fixing dyslexia

[Yasuandio]

Yeah, you are loosing those rose-colored glasses. Good on you. I told you this exactly, she would start loving you again, (but, then, you won't want her - that's the part that's hard to swallow right now). Your post proves I am psychic. Yas