WhiteWingedDove Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Hi all. I've surfed this forum quite a bi, finally decided to sign up. I've been married a few years, my first, his second... it was a whirlwind courtship, with a lot of rough patches. I suspect there is an affair going on.. many clues riddles around but zero proof. His former marriage was riddled with two way infidelities, and trust is a HUGE problem in this relationship (I've been in commited relationships in the past, and while I have mild trust issues (for me it needs to be earned - sorry), I'm not the suspicious without due cause type). Anyway, for now I'll spare you all my litany of adultery signs, and simply ask - has anyone here had that gut feeling an affair is happening, and investigated and found out you fears were unfounded and there *wasn't* anything going on? It seems every story here that starts out with gut feelings, those feelings end up being there for very good reasons. I guess, to me, the fact I am SO suspicious is a huge red flag right there, in the sense that, I have Never felt this before, this not believing what my partner tells me, this sense they could lie straight to my face (there is a serious issue in this relationship with 'reality warping' in just about any conflict)..... that I'm having those feelings alone have me thinking 'it's over' between us... if you see what I mean Proof of an affair would near certainly tip me over the edge. I'm somewhat hesitant to pursue it, s a) if I was caught playing PI he'd flip, b) he's very clever, and I could spend a LOT of resources to try to find evidence that is very well hidden, and c) I am good at doubting myself. But my gut is speaking to me... loud.
Clay Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I think before you drive yourself crazy write down the things you see that are red flags. Is he late home from work? Does he keep his cell phone locked? Is he constantly looking at it and not showing you or telling you who he is talking to? I personally have a limit on how far down the rabbit hole I am willing to go. My xW drove me crazy and I wont ever go through that again. Have you sit him down and had a serious talk to him about your concerns? If so what did he say? I personally am not a fan of cheaters. I think most cheaters continue to cheat because they know they can get away with it. So my opinion is biased. Have you considered getting into counceling? Do you talk to friends about this and if so do they agree with you on the red flags you have seen? Clay 2
lizzygirl Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 If there is one thing I have figured out in my life, always follow your gut. Some people say you are being paranoid or overly jealous and that may very well be, but if you don't follow your gut it will drive you insane. Right or wrong, it is always the best choice and let the chips fall where they may. If he is cheating and you don't look into it and figure it out once and for all, it will nag at you forever and eventually you will lose all self respect and once that happens, you are a shell of a human being who doesn't trust herself anymore and that is a terrifying place to be. I don't know what clues you have, but it is my opinion that total disclosure in a marriage/devoted relationship is a must, especially in this day and age of technology, apps for phones, etc. He should not flip - a marriage should be totally open, as in looking at his phone anytime you want, looking at the phone bill, being able to check one another's email, etc. The absence of that indicates you have something to hide IMO. A partnership, devoted marriage means that person comes first, you are a team, therefore my actions are your actions, my life is your life, and should be divulged to my mate at any given time with no hesitation. If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. A lot of people would disagree with me, but I'm sorry - it isn't 1952 anymore where you have one house phone for everyone's use, no internet, and behavior is pretty much cut and dry across the board as far as expectations and you can simply follow your man from work to home and find out what he is doing. Too many avenues these days where actions can be hidden. That is just reality.
thirtysomethingteen Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Honestly I don't think I've ever known of anyone, either irl or on this board, whose suspicions of infidelity were wrong. Your gut is telling you what you need to know - I know it is hard to accept though.
Author WhiteWingedDove Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) (sigh; rolls up sleeves) OK Clay... first, thanks! Second.. yes yes yes on the phone (all. the. time.) Closes solely text-based (ie, email) windows almost EVERY time I walk to the doorway of his office. Phone/computer off access (fair enough; mine are password protected too, in case of loss/theft). A year ago lost interest in sex (with me) when that was quite 'active' between us before (when I inquired gently about that I was asked if I 'needed to be validated' (?!?!) ... Now the fun part. The clincher here for me is, ~ a month ago he presented with blisters on his privates.. turned out to be herpes - I had to insist he get it checked out and got myself checked out. I do not test positive for it, but he does. It IS possible he had this for years and did not know, but his reactions around this outbreak have been .. peculiar to say the least. So... now my radar is really, really, 'on'. And since I am currently (it appears) not infected with what he's got, I intend to, well, take precaution that I remain that way!!! When I have tried to talk about this, I get total stonewalling denial or absurd rationalizing (the bizarre theories he had about the herpes were hilarious, given he is, well, very intelligent). His TEMPER prevents me from really digging in with questioning/doubts... he will lose it and I'll shut down in fear He claims tons of guilt over the one affair he had on his ex... but he slipped and referred to his 'affairS' once (claims that was an incorrect slip.) I only have one close friend and two family members to confide my concerns in.. they all think there is writing on the wall. I have not yet seen my therapist since the genital outbreak.. I probably should, but I think I know what she will say. it's what you all from the trenches will say that I don't know ... Edited January 6, 2015 by WhiteWingedDove
Clay Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Well I would just sit him down and be honest with him and I would make it clear if he failed to do anything you asked then the relationship is over with. I would not shy away from that one bit. Tell him you want to see his phone and his computer now. Do not give him even a second to think about it. The Herpes things scares the hell out of me. So probably would just leave over that. If he refuse don't entertain anything more he has to say. Show him the same respect he is showing you. Just walk away. Leave if you have to. Get your money and things in order and move on with your life. There are lots of men out there that will treat you with the respect and love you deserve. Don't waste another minute with someone who plays games. Clay 4
Satu Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I'm always a proponent of Evidence Based Thinking, but sometimes you know something before you see any evidence. If you don't mind me saying so, he doesn't sound a very nice man, even if you ignore the issue of possible infidelity. 1
Broom Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 "His temper prevents me..." That is a classic sign. Most serial liars try to compensate by taking over a potential exposure with irrational anger, which scares someone like you into pursuing further. He is not really trying to see and understand why you'd be thinking this in order to dispel it in a way that's healthy for your relationship. Among the STD and other signs, you have enough for me. I think you just want him to come out and admit it flat out, which may never happen. You're being manipulated, verbally & emotionally abused, and cowarded. Leave. 4
thirtysomethingteen Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 What Clay said. Yuck, the herpes thing alone would be a dealbreaker for me. And he uses the implied threat of violence (his temper) to keep you from asking questions? What a guy. OP, you deserve happiness and security and you will find neither with your husband. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Now the fun part. The clincher here for me is, ~ a month ago he presented with blisters on his privates.. turned out to be herpes - I had to insist he get it checked out and got myself checked out. I do not test positive for it, but he does. It IS possible he had this for years and did not know, but his reactions around this outbreak have been .. peculiar to say the least. So... now my radar is really, really, 'on'. And since I am currently (it appears) not infected with what he's got, I intend to, well, take precaution that I remain that way!!! The herpes "yuck" factor aside, the disease's mere presence is pretty solid evidence: "For patients with symptoms, the first outbreak usually occurs in or around the genital area 1 - 2 weeks after sexual exposure to the virus." It sounds like his integrity issues - and your concerns - predate the wedding. How do you marry someone you don't trust ??? Mr. Lucky 1
Author WhiteWingedDove Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 The herpes "yuck" factor aside, the disease's mere presence is pretty solid evidence: "For patients with symptoms, the first outbreak usually occurs in or around the genital area 1 - 2 weeks after sexual exposure to the virus." It sounds like his integrity issues - and your concerns - predate the wedding. How do you marry someone you don't trust ??? Mr. Lucky Points taken. I *did* contact an expert on herpes (paid for advice) and she did say it is *possible* he was carrying it and had not recognized other outbreaks. Though the odds are against - especially given I have not, in 7 years, contracted it! As for how you marry someone you don't trust I doubted my instincts enough to convice myself 'it was me' not him.... I do come from a childhood of abuse (so I tend to be guarded). On the other hand, I have never had an instinctual trust issue with anyone else I've been involved with like this.... but it really only became evident I did not feel able to trust him after we married. He was differnt in behavior before. We got married at a particularly vulnerable time in my life, too (major recent setbacks professionally) Not making excuses for my past decisions, but rather, explaining myself. My husband is very, very, good at 'twisting' my concerns when I voice them into.... I don't even know how to describe. Talented at emotional manipulation, and I am clueless how to deal with that sor of approach to 'communication'. His ex wife apparently also complained about his ability in that department. Anyway, the net effect has been for me to doubt my own observations..... but I am not buying into it anymore. Starting, um, now.
Bartlett67 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 My H did what he did with a herpes vector, so I've had to do my homework. There is a possibility that he had it before, but the likelihood of that is vanishingly small. The reality is that he's been infected in the past few months. You have all of the proof you should need. The curb awaits.
Clay Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I am not buying into it anymore. Starting, um, now. You know we all make mistakes. I put my trust in my xW. I really wanted to believe she was different It did not turn out well for me. Its good that you are now thinking about yourself as you should be. I think your right on the money to worry and I do agree with the others. Trust your gut. I am sorry you are going through this but it does sound like you have a serious problem. Do you have any friends you can stay with or family ? Clay 1
TrustedthenBusted Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I think the only "gut instinct" that was ever proven to be something OTHER than an affair happened way back between Mary and Joseph. ...and she STILL got pregnant. 3
Author WhiteWingedDove Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 I think the only "gut instinct" that was ever proven to be something OTHER than an affair happened way back between Mary and Joseph. ...and she STILL got pregnant. :laugh: Thanks... I needed that laugh....
BetrayedH Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Please forgive any graphic details. About midway during my 12 year marriage, I developed what appeared to be a small mole on my penis. I inquired with my dermatologist about it. It was removed and a biopsy revealed that I had herpes. I was shocked. Having been faithful to one woman for somewhere around the last 10 years, I immediately thought that I must have contracted it from my wife. However, the dermatologist assured me that somewhere around 80% of the population has a form of herpes, many of them don't know it, and many of them had it inadvertently passed to them by parents during childhood. He said that the diagnosis did not at all mean that I had gotten it from my wife and that I may have had it for years. I had no other reasons to suspect my wife of infidelity and so while I was dismayed, I dismissed it. That said, about six or so years later, I caught my wife in an affair. I still don't know what to think about that development years ago. I don't feel stupid for having trusted my dermatologist but it sure is an ugly thing in hindsight. If I had any advice, it's to place a voice activated recorder (VAR) in his car. Some place it under the driver's seat but I've also heard of velcroing it under the steering column for better reception (nobody looks there but cover any lights it may have on it so it's not visible at night). It's extraordinarily common for affair partners to chat it up on the way to/from work and it's a relatively inexpensive way to investigate (~$50 at Best Buy) that doesn't require a lot of tech savvy. 3
sandylee1 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Hi all. I've surfed this forum quite a bi, finally decided to sign up. I've been married a few years, my first, his second... it was a whirlwind courtship, with a lot of rough patches. I suspect there is an affair going on.. many clues riddles around but zero proof. His former marriage was riddled with two way infidelities, and trust is a HUGE problem in this relationship (I've been in commited relationships in the past, and while I have mild trust issues (for me it needs to be earned - sorry), I'm not the suspicious without due cause type). Anyway, for now I'll spare you all my litany of adultery signs, and simply ask - has anyone here had that gut feeling an affair is happening, and investigated and found out you fears were unfounded and there *wasn't* anything going on? It seems every story here that starts out with gut feelings, those feelings end up being there for very good reasons. I guess, to me, the fact I am SO suspicious is a huge red flag right there, in the sense that, I have Never felt this before, this not believing what my partner tells me, this sense they could lie straight to my face (there is a serious issue in this relationship with 'reality warping' in just about any conflict)..... that I'm having those feelings alone have me thinking 'it's over' between us... if you see what I mean Proof of an affair would near certainly tip me over the edge. I'm somewhat hesitant to pursue it, s a) if I was caught playing PI he'd flip, b) he's very clever, and I could spend a LOT of resources to try to find evidence that is very well hidden, and c) I am good at doubting myself. But my gut is speaking to me... loud. A discreet way would be a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car. Buy one or two from Amazon. Or if you can hire a P.I.
LadyLuck2014 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (sigh; rolls up sleeves) OK Clay... first, thanks! Second.. yes yes yes on the phone (all. the. time.) Closes solely text-based (ie, email) windows almost EVERY time I walk to the doorway of his office. Phone/computer off access (fair enough; mine are password protected too, in case of loss/theft). A year ago lost interest in sex (with me) when that was quite 'active' between us before (when I inquired gently about that I was asked if I 'needed to be validated' (?!?!) ... Now the fun part. The clincher here for me is, ~ a month ago he presented with blisters on his privates.. turned out to be herpes - I had to insist he get it checked out and got myself checked out. I do not test positive for it, but he does. It IS possible he had this for years and did not know, but his reactions around this outbreak have been .. peculiar to say the least. So... now my radar is really, really, 'on'. And since I am currently (it appears) not infected with what he's got, I intend to, well, take precaution that I remain that way!!! When I have tried to talk about this, I get total stonewalling denial or absurd rationalizing (the bizarre theories he had about the herpes were hilarious, given he is, well, very intelligent). His TEMPER prevents me from really digging in with questioning/doubts... he will lose it and I'll shut down in fear He claims tons of guilt over the one affair he had on his ex... but he slipped and referred to his 'affairS' once (claims that was an incorrect slip.) I only have one close friend and two family members to confide my concerns in.. they all think there is writing on the wall. I have not yet seen my therapist since the genital outbreak.. I probably should, but I think I know what she will say. it's what you all from the trenches will say that I don't know ... Ugh, there are more red flags waving all over the place than there are at the starting line of the Indy 500. I do want to caution you to read up on Herpes. Everything I've read (but I'm not positive) have alluded to the fact that condoms will NOT provide protection against Herpes. So please educate yourself fully and proceed with caution. Quite honestly, your gut is screaming to you for a reason, and his shady behavior is so classic of someone up to no good that it's almost cliche. I do have to say that he doesn't have many positive character traits at all. He has anger issues, he lies, he cheats, he manipulates, he gaslights, and is flagrantly arrogant. Those alone are alarming. When you add a big old helping of Herpes to the list, all bets are off. Don't risk being infected with Herpes for LIFE. He's NOT worth it. It's very possible you'll be dumping his sorry ass down the road when you find out your gut wasn't wrong about this guy, and then you'll be single again with the added burden of having to tell anyone you meet that you have Herpes. He's NOT WORTH IT!!!
LadyLuck2014 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 My husband is very, very, good at 'twisting' my concerns when I voice them into.... I don't even know how to describe. Talented at emotional manipulation, and I am clueless how to deal with that sor of approach to 'communication'. His ex wife apparently also complained about his ability in that department. Anyway, the net effect has been for me to doubt my own observations..... but I am not buying into it anymore. Starting, um, now. And that's pretty much the description of gaslighting - the twisting of your thoughts and words so that you eventually begin to doubt YOURSELF. So who are you going to believe - him, or your lying eyes? 3
HereNorThere Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Please forgive any graphic details. About midway during my 12 year marriage, I developed what appeared to be a small mole on my penis. I inquired with my dermatologist about it. It was removed and a biopsy revealed that I had herpes. I was shocked. Having been faithful to one woman for somewhere around the last 10 years, I immediately thought that I must have contracted it from my wife. However, the dermatologist assured me that somewhere around 80% of the population has a form of herpes, many of them don't know it, and many of them had it inadvertently passed to them by parents during childhood. He said that the diagnosis did not at all mean that I had gotten it from my wife and that I may have had it for years. I had no other reasons to suspect my wife of infidelity and so while I was dismayed, I dismissed it. That said, about six or so years later, I caught my wife in an affair. I still don't know what to think about that development years ago. I don't feel stupid for having trusted my dermatologist but it sure is an ugly thing in hindsight. If I had any advice, it's to place a voice activated recorder (VAR) in his car. Some place it under the driver's seat but I've also heard of velcroing it under the steering column for better reception (nobody looks there but cover any lights it may have on it so it's not visible at night). It's extraordinarily common for affair partners to chat it up on the way to/from work and it's a relatively inexpensive way to investigate (~$50 at Best Buy) that doesn't require a lot of tech savvy. 80% of people have HSV1 herpes, not 2. 1 is common cold sores, but could possibly occur in other regions. 2 is a genital herpes, an std. 80% of people do not have genital herpes. 2
HereNorThere Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 You haven't given us enough info about the herpes. Is it the STD herpes or the cold sore herpes? BIG freakin difference there. Anyway, you married a known cheater and now you are wondering if he's cheating on you. I mean, he is a cheatier and statistically, it's much easier to cheat after the first time. I don't think you have enough information to nail this guy to the cross yet, but past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior, so yeah, he probably cheats. Is he completely transparent? Do you have his passcodes and passwords? Is he protective of things like that? I really think you need more information because without, you're really just spinning the wheels.
loveboid Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 He cheated. Move on. Your childhood issues aren't problems, they're strengths because now you can sniff out danger like a seasoned bloodhound. Your gut is made of frickin steel. Use it. 1
harrybrown Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 How would your H react if the situation was reversed? He would think you were having an A. So if you were not, you would become transparent to show him that you were not having an A. He is angry and not transparent. Good luck, but continue to be extremely careful. At first before reading about the stds, I was thinking wait, sometimes the gut has been wrong or is difficult to prove. (with my wife, difficult to prove, she said it was not her when confronted) (but in your situation, still more than just the gut) I am still in limbo, but getting older and too tired, too invested in the grandkids now.
BetrayedH Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 80% of people have HSV1 herpes, not 2. 1 is common cold sores, but could possibly occur in other regions. 2 is a genital herpes, an std. 80% of people do not have genital herpes. I'm not an expert but from what I understand, both can be transmitted and present elsewhere. In effect, oral herpes can present on the genitals and vice versa. 3
Author WhiteWingedDove Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Transparency? (snorts) in words, yes; in deeds, no. Ok I best clarify a few things - I have been readings tons about both types of HSV He tells me (more on that in a sec) that it is HSV-1. It was only on his genitals, and it was a bad outbreak. My understanding is, if you have it in one place ie mouth or downstairs) you likely don't have it in the other place (it lives in the nerves in the spine I believe, near where outbreaks occur). Sooo if you HAVE it genitally... you *probably* got it by... well. You guys can do the math. Here is what bothers me most about the whole HSV thing in this case - I had to badger him to go to the doc in the first instance, badger him to call about results, and ... he has yet, in several weeks now, to produce the test results *so that I can see them*. (of course the intervening holidays helped with that, but.. really??) It is further my understanding that how high a level of antibodies is some indication how long the virus has been with you. Soooo naturally I want to see that test.. I cannot fathom how a man gets blisters down there *and does not immediately want to know what's going on*? Um... unless he knew what it was. So. What bothers me is how he's handled it, and how he gets defensive when I've had to badger about this. Meanwhile, I am in collect more information mode. no cross nailing here, but I'm not a happy girl. And I won't put my head in the sand. I'm just not sure how to communicate w/o getting anger back or just having him hide things better. Maybe I don't even want to try to communicate... trust being at an all time low. I dunno, yet. I really appreciate everyone's viewpoint; it helps! Edited January 6, 2015 by WhiteWingedDove
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